Reds vs. Pirates, 16 April 2010
by Charlie Wilmoth on Apr 16, 2010 3:00 PM EDT
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PrintCincinnati Reds at Pittsburgh Pirates, Apr 16, 2010 7:05 PM EDT
Mike Leake vs. Zach Duke, 7:05 PM.
I'm pretty curious about this one, and not because of the funny similarities in these two pitchers' names. Leake was the Reds' first-round pick last summer, and he's a good pitching prospect but not a premium one. The Reds let him skip the minor leagues entirely (although he did pitch a few games in the Arizona Fall League), inserting him directly into their rotation. He made his major league debut on Sunday and shut down the Cubs, allowing one run in 6 2/3 innings, but he walked seven batters.
Maybe the Reds end up looking like geniuses for doing this, but putting Leake in the rotation without a day's worth of minor league experience looks to me like the sort of cockamamie idea that can lead to weird cycles of promotion and demotion that can derail a guy's career. Andrew Miller was supposed to be one of the best talents, if not the best talent, in the 2006 draft, and now I look at how his career has gone and I just feel bad for him. He hasn't had a major injury, but he's had the misfortune of playing for two organizations (Detroit and Florida) that place little value in continuity. He's pitched in the majors every season since he was drafted, but he has obvious problems with control and mechanics that he's never ironed out, so he keeps going back to various minor league levels, where he steamrolls the competition. This is not the way to develop a pitcher, and I think it's pretty likely the Reds end up doing something like this with Leake while burning through a bunch of his service time in the process. Good for Leake for getting good results in his first start, but the seven walks suggest there are some things he could work on.
While I'm at it, I think it's funny that the Pirates have a player in Brad Lincoln who taken two picks before Miller out of college in 2006 and still hasn't pitched in the majors yet. The Lincoln saga isn't a success story either, but one of the few things I think Dave Littlefield did well was to promote prospects at an appropriate pace. Obviously, he didn't acquire many prospects to begin with, so there wasn't much in the way of temptation, but I'm glad that the list of stunts he pulled didn't include, for example, making Andrew McCutchen the starting centerfielder at the beginning of the 2007 season, or something like that.
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prefer early threads
Here’s what I hope the Pirates will be today
Warning: I said the same for Jonathan Sanchez’s start
Seven walks
Hopefully our boys look at a few pitches, unlike the Jonathan Sanchez start.
It's a good day to be a Pirate
Not sure in that game......
Sanchez was all around the plate and had great stuff. Taking pitches just to go down 0-2 in the count isn’t always the best strategy either.
I'm not too worried
looking at the radar, I’d guess by 5:30 ET the storm has passed, with some minor showers again around 6:15-6:30. The later showers might not even delay play IMO.
Not a meteorologist, though, so I could be wrong.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Apr 16, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
oops
I messed up my time conversion. Mean to say 6:30 ET and 7:15-7:30 ET respectively.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Apr 16, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn't really compare...
Andrew Miller and Mike Leake. Leake has decent stuff but he really knows how to pitch and usually has good command. I think his walk problems had a lot to do with him making his first proffesional start in the majors. Miller on the other hand, has amazing stuff for a lefty, but has always has some porblems with command. Hell if we were offered Miller I would take him because of his really good stuff, but he would likely have to have some extensive pitching changes made by Joe Kerrigan.
Leake never had the control issues that Miller had in the NCAA. I’m not saying it’s right to bring him up now, but that particular comp looks like apples and oranges to me. Miller is like a Charlie Morton with worse control. Very frustrating guy.
I think Charlie is merely pointing out an example of a pitcher being rushed and it not ending well. Miller is obviously an extreme example, both because he was more talented and less ready to be in the majors than Leake, but almost no NCAA pitcher is ready for the majors right away. Leake was a pretty polished college pitcher, but I don’t see any reason to risk scarring his development without at least giving him a few high minors starts to build his confidence. This seems like a stunt.
charity standing orders
It may or may not be the right move for Leake’s development to start him in the majors, but it’s still worth pointing out the large differences in the comparison. It’s no secret that a low upside, command pitcher will need a lot less development than a toolsy project.
The other factor is that some see the Reds as a dark horse for the playoffs (I’m not buying it, but the Reds organization probably is). Starting Leake gives them the best rotation to make it happen from their view.
Last year, the Braves started Tommy Hanson in the minors, and they missed the playoffs by a couple games because the 5th starters were bad the first two months. That extra year of eligibility is nice, but not to kill a solid playoff chance that year. The Tigers started Rick Porcello in the majors last year, which looked like a rush job to many. But because of that move they went all the way to the 163rd game, and the gamble was worth it IMO.
by Adam Reynolds on Apr 16, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I think this thought has a lot of merit
but it still seems strange to see Leake in the majors when the best prospect in the history of the draft is in AA giving up 4 runs to the Altoona Curve.
It's a good day to be a Pirate
IWAMURA UNASSISTED TRIPLE PLAY TO END THE GAME!
by IAPiratesFan on Apr 16, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
he actually
made the first ever unassisted quadruple play, but since there was no way to score it as such they just called it a triple play
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Apr 16, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Cincinatti announcer:
“Duke lead the league in losses last year, this year he’s leading the league in wins! How about that turnaround?”
uhh….that’s two wins so far.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
Spoiler!?!?!
If you really want to spoil it for Charlie, you need to put something he might believe. Something like the Bucs went up early, JR leaves Duke in a couple batters too long and the bullpen gives up the lead. The Buccos load the bases with none out in the 9th with a HBP and two BB only to have Luigi swing at the first pitch and hit into a DP. The pinch hitter then fans on three pitches to end it. And to top it off, the rain returns to spoil the fireworks. Yep, I think that would just about do it.
don't forget
that they loaded the bases in the first inning to get no runs out of it as well. Innings 2-8 were utterly barren.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Apr 16, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
it's starting again I guess
there was a window, but it looks like they are just going to wait until the next shower passes. After that it looks pretty fine on the radar.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Apr 16, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Brock Holt back in the lineup tonight for Bradenton.
I’m looking forward to seeing what he can do this year.
lmao
Washington announcers aren’t worried about Nyjer Morgan’s low average and OBP because he hasn’t struck out much. Fact of the matter is, if he doesn’t get on base, he doesn’t get on base…doesn’t matter if he’s “putting it in play” (to the second baseman).
Jason
The Hanging Curve
IDK...
with his speed he usually has a pretty high BABIP. If he keeps his contact rate up he’ll probably end up with a decent batting average. I don’t think he’s taking anymore walks than normal so his OBP he is usually driven by his batting average IIRC.
yeah
it’s certainly better than Sanchez, but still not many walks.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Apr 16, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Indy been talking to JR??
They are sitting the guy that’s been their best hitter so far…Pearce. Neil Walker playing 1B tonight.
Q. Miller just got pulled from his WV start after one inning.
I can only speculate that he got hurt. He gave up 1 run in the first and now Erickson is in the game in the 2nd. Not good news. If anyone hears anything please post.
in indy
walker had like a 15 pitch AB after which he walked to make it 1st and 2nd with no outs, and they asked brandon moss to bunt :P
Duh
Reds announcer: “How many times you see the #3 hitter bunting in the first inning?” Umm, the Reds did it in the top of the inning. Dope!
How did they get Milledge??
Gameday says LF to 3B to 2B.
The cut the throw off to home (Cutch was tagging)...
and caught Milledge trying to advance to second.
Ahhh...
Clement with a crappy throw to second on the pick off. That steal is on him. I guess that’s what will come with inexperience.
Obviously...
Ohlie’s being in question…and Hart’s suspension…has left Indy short of starters. Powell must have been on a pitch count. Done after 4…and 68 pitches. Karstens in.
auto setup
by Charlie, since he wasnt going to be around…
rain delay means there’s low attendance here… wonder if the pens game has anything to do with it :D
Let’s move to the overflow thread since Charlie took the trouble of putting it up… :)
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2010/4/16/1425031/reds-vs-pirates-16-april-2010#comments
To bad meanless you know what was on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This would have been a great game to see but FSN is the network because no network thinks hockey is worth the time of day !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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