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The Pirates, the Mets and Hope...or lack thereof

Look.  I know the Pirates aren't going to have a winning season.  Maybe not even next year.  I live in New York and I'm not working right now.  That means Monday I'm going to the bar in my Clemente jersey and sit there with the doors open eating hot dogs, drinking beers and without a doubt more than one depressed Mets fan will try to make himself feel better by giving me a hard time about how much the Pirates suck... and I will tell them all the same thing

"I would rather have our team than yours any day"

Star-divide

Every year we all hear the same crap about "every team is 0-0, its a league wide tie for first, hope springs eternal etc" and we know its mostly not true.  Even though half of our best prospects are guys that other teams gave up on, they certainly all still give reasons to hope.  There is one future star, a few potential ones and a lot of guys who could at leas tbe pretty good.  Our front office has certainly not proved that they can build a winner or pick the right talent, but at least they seem to know the correct process for doing so.  The limited budget forces them to do things the correct way.

It's like watching someone make a cake, and they only have enough money to buy exactly the right ingredients and not waste any.  I haven't tasted the cake yet, but I watched them shop for ingredients, make the batter and the picture in the cookbook looks good so I'm excited.

The Mets on the other hand are at the opposite end of this spectrum.  They were once exactly where you would want to be in this process.  They had the 2 best young left infielders in the game, a star 5 tool centerfielder under contract for years, a stud closer, traded for the best pitcher in the game (Santana) and surrounded this core with proven veteran talent.  Best of all they had a top rated prospect (Milledge) on the way and all the money in the world to work with if they needed another piece. 

I don't know if everyone remembers just how good things looked for the Mets, but I can tell you everyone thought they were going to dominate for years.  Of course we all know what happened.  They, during the regular season, blew it.  More importantly, their front office really blew it.

-First, they rushed MIlledge to the majors when he wasn't ready.  Though it's safe to say all the maturity issues were Milledges fault, they failed to recognize this and put him in line or teach him to, you know, take a pitch. 

-Never really grasped the concept that you need guys to get outs between the starter and the closer.  Seriously.

-They gave a terrible deal to a second baseman  (Castillo) who even at the time was only slightly above average.  He played solid defense and hit for average.  However Adam Kennedy, Felipe Lopez, Orlando Hudson, and anyone who has moved from SS can tell you that this is one of the most replaceable assets in the game.

-They grasped at straws to try and make the playoffs and emptied their farm system leaving them with no internal replacements when guys like Lo Duca and Delgado broke down..or stopped juicing. 

-They wasted money and time on throw away pitchers like Tim Redding and Livan Hernandez instead of spending money on a real solution.  Then they gave Oliver Perez, who had proven to be terrible time and again 30 million dollars instead of giving Derek Lowe, who had proven himself a success in the AL east, and even more so in the NL 40 million. 

-They also built a new ballpark with unreal dimensions that sapped their best asset, power hitting....the front office is a mess...fighting with the press, challenging minor leaguers to fights, the countless injuries, losing money to Maddoff, etc etc I could go on and on.

My point is the Mets were like a perfectly baked cake and when it came time to put on the icing Minaya just smashed the cake with a tennis racket instead.  I would take our team over the Mets any day.  Most Mets fans here know what happened and their crushed.  There's no hope.  All they can do is hope Minaya gets fired and the Wilpons hire someone who knows what he's doing to restock the farm, wait out some of the bad contracts and hope Reyes still has functioning knees by the time they get some new blood in there.

I know everyone experienced what I just described with Littlefield probably felt a little Deja Vu reading that.  I think we can take pride in the fact that our front office is at least not squandering the assets we have and more importantly than anything is the fact that right now we will be better each year than we were the year before.

 

I just hope that when the Jolly Roger sails past the shipwrecked disaster full of skeletons that is the Mets, they'll take it as a warning and not make the same mistakes.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.

Comment 14 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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From a Front-Office standpoint...

..I think you hit the nail on the head. The pirates are much, much better off with NH or just about any GM over Omar Minaya.

However, once Minaya gets nixed (Which, for mets fans, if they tank again this season shouldn’t be too far away), I’d still take the Mets situation over the Pirates. It seems as though the Pirates have the right plan in motion, at least in theory, but so far have accomplished nothing, and that may not happen for quite some time, maybe even after Huntington has long moved on from the organization.

As far as “home grown” talent, I’d say the Mets and Pirates are about even there from a MLB impact player standpoint, slight edge to the Mets for having proven all-stars, even though they are a little bit older. All in all, I’d say McCutchen, Alvarez, Tabata = Wright, Reyes, Martinez. Like I said, the mets top two are proven guys, but they’re a little older and I dont think are under team control as long. Cutch and Alvarez are great building blocks, Martinez and Tabata I see as similar.

The obvious big difference is financial resources. The mets have the ability to compete every single year based on payroll alone. Now, Minaya has shown that an open checkbook does not guarantee success by any means. Theo Epstein, on the other hand, has shown that it most certainly can mean consistent success.

Of all the evilness in GM’s I’d probably say that Minaya is worse than Littlefield. Littlefield f’d up things royally, don’t get me wrong, but Minaya has done basically the same thing, only spent 10x what Littlefield ever had to work with.

by jlk9697 on Apr 2, 2010 12:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Yea its kinda like giving a drunk guy the keys to a ferrari…or this metaphor that always makes me laugh.

I like to think that when Minaya goes out drinking he comes home and makes deals like I online shop when Im drunk. Only instead of 3 amazon.com boxes mysteriously arriving it’s Oliver Perez

RIP NATE. RIP TONY PLUSH.

"I'D BE A CHEF"

-TONY PLUSH

by GTrain on Apr 2, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mmm, cake
It’s like watching someone make a cake, and they only have enough money to buy exactly the right ingredients and not waste any. I haven’t tasted the cake yet, but I watched them shop for ingredients, make the batter and the picture in the cookbook looks good so I’m excited.

As a (non-professional but somewhat avid) baker, I think that’s a pretty cool analogy. It’s also the same reason I wouldn’t quit on NH any time soon. I’ve watched a cooking show and seen an episode I really like, gotten the recipe and made it myself. But it wasn’t so awesome when it was done. Maybe not a disaster either, just not great. But I’ll keep watching that show if I like what that chef is doing and how they do it, and I’ll try a different recipe of theirs without hesitation.

by azibuck on Apr 2, 2010 12:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Enjoy the schadenfreude while you can (I definitely am). Inevitably, the team will clean house and probably hire people who know about baseball. Then their financial flexibility will lift them up quite a bit. The Seattle turnaround was an extreme case of this, but a somewhat more mild turnaround could happen, unfortunately, because of the money. Hope for a .500 season for them so that Minaya and company keep their jobs.

by Adam Reynolds on Apr 2, 2010 1:20 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree, theyre probably done

However, most people with inside info report that the problem is largely the wilpons and the way they run the organization. Its a mess

RIP NATE. RIP TONY PLUSH.

"I'D BE A CHEF"

-TONY PLUSH

by GTrain on Apr 2, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m actually hoping the Mets haven’t bottomed out yet, because that’s probably the only way the Pirates will finish with a better record this year. I still remember the 1986 season, when the last place Pirates finished 44 games behind the eventual world-champion Mets, in part due to losing 17 of 18 games to the Mets. it’s always nice when the Pirates finish in front of the Mets, even if they’re not in the same division anymore.

by gonfalon on Apr 2, 2010 1:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Plus...

..if the Met’s can somehow stay around .500 and in contention, we may be able to ship a guy like Doumit or Duke for a king’s ransom.

by jlk9697 on Apr 2, 2010 2:22 PM EDT reply actions  

The mets still have a Minor League system that has anything we could use

I didn’t know that

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"Its a Great Day to be a Mountaineer where ever you may be" Tony Caridi
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Apr 2, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

F-Mart, Mejia (who looks well on his way to ruin, if they go into job-save mode, and throw him into the bigs this year), and some others in Havens, Ike Davis…

and I m not even familiar with their system. F-Mart is better than any OF prospect we have, IMO. I really like Davis too!

by BurgherKing on Apr 2, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1 on the "Mets are Doomed" fans

…I have limited opportunities to listen to WFAN due to my position in the bowels of a building and an evil web-meister who blocks things like streaming video, the swimsuit issue, Texas hold ’em, and other tension relievers.

But boy when the fans call into WFAN or post on the local news website, the answer is “THE METS ARE DOOMED.” And they’re probably right.

After Santana, they have no proven, consistent starting pitching.

They are plaqued by injuries and it feels like neither the fans nor the players trust their medical staff.

Their bullpen, other than K-Rod, is indistinguishable from ours. Takahashi looks like he’ll be a good pick-up f/middle-relief, lefty though – wish we would have signed him.

Jason Bay in a cavernous left field…’nuff said.

It may be fun up here as a Pirates fan.

by Trogluddite on Apr 2, 2010 9:42 PM EDT reply actions  

What are you talking about the Mets have no proven or consistent starting pitching

they have oliver perez he’s proven, proven to be bad consistently

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"Its a Great Day to be a Mountaineer where ever you may be" Tony Caridi
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Apr 2, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

WTF happens

to guys like Ollie anyway? He pitched one of the best games I’ve ever seen personally, three-hit shutout of the Reds, bunch of strikeouts. What happened to that guy?

by bucdaddy on Apr 3, 2010 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not a pitching expert by any means, but I think he has major problems with his delivery which makes him walk everyone in sight. His stuff is nasty…and of course, if you read any of the NY papers they all complain about him: he’s lazy since he got his contract, doesn’t care, etc. He’s had this delivery issue for years…sadly, I doubt he is going to figure it out now.

by NastyNate82 on Apr 3, 2010 8:49 AM EDT reply actions  

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