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Around SBN: The Ten Worst Swings Of The 2011 Season

Neal Huntington's Resume


It would be interesting to see what everybody thinks of NH's moves thus far that either brought players into the mix, or sent them out.  Simply say win, lose, draw.

1.  Jesse Chavez traded for Aki Iwamura.  Lose

2.  Releasing Matt Capps. Lose

3. Sean Burnett and Nyjer Morgan traded for Joel Hanarahan and Lastings Milledge. Draw

4. Selected RHP Evan Meek from the Rays in the Rule 5. Win

5. Acquired RHPs Marino Salas and Kevin Roberts from the Milwaukee Brewers in exchange for RHP Salomon Torres. Lose

6. Acquired RHP Tyler Yates from the Atlanta Braves for nonroster RHP Todd Redmond. Lose

7.Acquired RHP Denny Bautista from the Detroit Tigers in exchange for RHP Kyle Pearson. Win

8.Acquired INF Andy LaRoche and RHP Avery (Bryan) Morris from the Los Angeles Dodgers; Acquired RHP Craig Hansen and OF Brandon Moss from the Boston Red Sox; Sent OF Jason Bay to the Boston Red Sox. Draw

9.Acquired RHPs Jeff Karstens, Daniel McCutchen and Ross Ohlendorf and OF Jose Tabata from the Yankees in exchange for OF Xavier Nady and LHP Damaso Marte. Win

10. Acquired C Robinzon Diaz from the Toronto Blue Jays and assigned him to Triple-A Indianapolis. Lose

11. Signed INF Garrett Jones. Win

12. Signed free agent outfielder Eric Hinske, who had been with the Rays, to a one-year contract. Draw

13.Acquired RHP Charlie Morton for OF Nate McLouth. Draw

14. Traded INF Freddie Sanchez  for P Tim Alderson. Win

15. Acquired Jose Ascanio, Kevin Hart and Josh Harrison for John Grabow and Tom Gorzelanny. Lose

16. Acquired Jeff Clement, Ronnie Cedeno, Aaron Pribanic, Brett Lorin, and Nathan Adcock for Jack Wilson and Ian Snell. Draw

17. Acquired Argenis Diaz for Adam LaRoche. Draw

 

So I go with 5 wins, 6 losses, and 6 draws.  Whay say you all?

 

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This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.

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I say it’s way too early to assess the majority of these deals. I’d also say that maybe five or six of those deals are largely inconsequential.

by biggyv on May 2, 2010 6:29 PM EDT reply actions  

And, I would say you were wrong on about half of them.

Way too early to determine. Doing so makes no sense and is bound to create mistakes.

You sound like Smizik and to a lesser extent, Dejan. Both try to find fault with something that can’t possibly be determined yet.

Also, why did you leave Jeff Locke out of the equation? Even if he doesn’t do anything, having Morton in the rotation is a WIN for getting rid of McClouth….

by CabreraKilledMyChildhood on May 2, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Gorkys in that deal

and Hunter Strickland, in the LaRoche deal I believe. And whoever we got for Hinske, and Donnie Veal, and Delwyn.

by Mr. E on May 2, 2010 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

You've padded the losses and even the wins

Robinson Diaz, Tyler Yates, Sal Torres and Jesse Chavez are involved in 4 of the 6 losses and are such inconsequential moves that they don’t even merit listing.

Same applies to Bautista.

I’m still steamed about the Capps move and that both pitchers that we acquired from the Cubs unfortunately fell apart but any grade other than “Incomplete” is just premature.

by Say Hey Johnny Ray on May 2, 2010 6:34 PM EDT reply actions  

How can you call Chavez for Iwamura a loss already? Chavez isn’t even pitching for the team we traded him to and we’re 24 games into the season. Calm down. And how can you call free agent signings a draw? Who did we “draw” with?

Also, you’re selectively choosing the people in trades to focus on. For instance, the trade was McLouth (someone else, too, I think) for Morton, Hernandez, and Locke. Keep picking and choosing.

Pirates, Vikings, Hokies. I'm used to heartbreak. At least I have the Penguins....

"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-The Great One

by blackjackfishtaco on May 2, 2010 6:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Yes, you include everyone in the trade as you have with the others.

Pirates, Vikings, Hokies. I'm used to heartbreak. At least I have the Penguins....

"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-The Great One

by blackjackfishtaco on May 2, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

What does 24 games into the season have to do with anything?

I thought Chavez was traded to the Braves like two days after being traded to the Rays… Or am I thinking of something else?

by jlk9697 on May 2, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m just saying that we shouldn’t consider the trade a complete loss. The season has practically just started. Is there a trend? Yes. But there’s still 130+ games for Aki to do something crazy.

Pirates, Vikings, Hokies. I'm used to heartbreak. At least I have the Penguins....

"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-The Great One

by blackjackfishtaco on May 2, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Aki will get traded for pitching by June 1st

to make a spot for Pedro on the roster, and so we need to be patient and evaluate the return for Iwamura as the return for Chavez

by 2010 will be the year on May 3, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

he better improve a hell lot

otherwise we arent likely to get much at all!

by BurgherKing on May 3, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

At this point

We aren’t likely to get a Jesse Chavez back.

by MarkInDallas on May 3, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

In any case, you can’t simply go win/loss to determine how successful a GM’s moves have been, especially one who’s made as many moves as Huntington has. Some of those wins are better (Nady trade, Jones signing, Meek signing) than others (Alderson(so far)).
Not to mention that all the 6 losses aside from possibly the Capps non-signing and the Grabow/Gorzo trade (which I consider a draw at this point), are entirely inconsequential to the future of the team, and therefore have no real bearing on anything.
If you want to make a legitimate report card on how NH has done, you should try giving some kind of numerical score, rather than calling every move, however important or not, simply a win or loss.

by Akshay R on May 2, 2010 6:41 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

And, it is too early anyways.

by CabreraKilledMyChildhood on May 2, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

i disagree

with many of your grades.
ill start with chavez for aki. ill call that a win seeing aki starting at 2B and chavez not even playing. next is #15 AND #16 your list. harrison looks like a decent prospect and hart is injured so thats whatever but seeing how grabow would not be back with us regardless and gorzo is just bad, i would call getting harrison a win. as for the trade with seattle that is also a win. we have a potential 1B, and SS in the deal and got rid of a head case in snell. yes we lost j.wilson but we also got 3 young pitchers for a SS that is average at best, how can that be anything less than a win!!!

by C Shint on May 2, 2010 6:43 PM EDT reply actions  

You bring up...

a good point with the 3 young pitchers. As I say in a post below, I think NH is good at evaluating younger talent, as opposed to the “older” players.

I’m just watching Crosby and Aki butcher regular DPs and regular throws, and I’m probably missing Jack a little too much.

by Coxswain on May 2, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

also

you must factor in NH drafts. I really have loved the past few drafts. I would call them wins each time. Good pitchers have been brought in through the later rounds. we got ourselves a top 10 BA prospect in Pedro. we got a future star catcher in Sanchez, also a top 100 BA prospect. ZVR, Cain and others look solid, i must say so far, i would give NH a well above passing grade for his decisions….so far….

by C Shint on May 2, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

ummmm Gorzo has not been bad this year

He just struck out a career high 10 in 7 innings for his first win. His ERA is below 3

by eyeofhorus777 on May 2, 2010 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

ummm

“for his first win”….yeah a month to get a win…whats that a pace for 6 wins on the year?

by C Shint on May 2, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

also

last year he had an era over 5. and so far this year up until today just 17k’s to 7 bb’s…not so great and just 22IP in his first 4 starts? to me thats a mediocore pitcher, not saying we dont need pitching help but he is nothing special

by C Shint on May 2, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe so far this year...

Gorzo has been more special than basically any one of our starters. Maybe that just speaks about how bad the Pirates rotation is this year but I’d rather have Gorzo than Dan McCutchen, Karstens, Burris, and even the Zach Duke of this year to be honest.

"So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded?! Yea. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets so a sample. There are 4 of us an you're retarded. Thats 25 percent." Southpark; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce

by gorillakilla34 on May 2, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

just because you think it

doesn’t make it so

Gorzo has been great for the Cubs this year. 3 to 1 K/bb ratio is very good, I don’t know what metrics your using.

Half his starts were quality starts. He left 1 of his 4 starts in the 2nd inning after being hit by a line drive thus his IP/Start is low.

A .2.45 ERA and 1.05 WHIP is also very good. I watched him pitch today and he had his curve working very nicely and was ahead in most counts.

Just using stats from this year he has been excellent. Will it continue who knows but if he produced those stats for us he would obviously be the ace of our team.

We don’t have to say Morgan and Gorzo suck now just to make us feel better about our trades. We can say it was a mistake.

by eyeofhorus777 on May 2, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that so far this year Gorzo has looked good.

But maybe he wouldn’t have looked/been so good with the Pirates. He did, from what I remember, have work ethic problems. He may have just benefitted from a change of scenery.

"So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded?! Yea. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets so a sample. There are 4 of us an you're retarded. Thats 25 percent." Southpark; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce

by gorillakilla34 on May 2, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

he was

for the most part, a bad pitcher for the pirates. put him with the team we have now and i would bet he is no better than any of our pitchers this year. im just saying id rather have the guys that we got instead of him.

by C Shint on May 3, 2010 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

the guys we got?

we got two guys with torn labrums and josh harrison. I’ll take gorzo

by richmondpirate on May 3, 2010 3:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

he was a head case for us and obviously he got motivated somehow with another team. I just wish we could motiviate our talented players instead of running them off.

by eyeofhorus777 on May 3, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Um people

Do you even know where I stand with NH?

Did I call for his head?

I think NH has a very good idea of evaluating younger talent, mainly in the draft and in the Rule V. However, I think either NH or his team have a flawed system for evaluating players that are more advanced. We’ve hit on some of the younger guys, Morris turning it around, Meek turning into a plus reliever, Veal improving, etc.

I simply started a post to start dialogue. If you don’t like, then don’t comment. If you don’t agree, then state your case, that’s how dialogue works.

by Coxswain on May 2, 2010 6:45 PM EDT reply actions  

I mean, I understand what you mean

..but really, what is the significance of 5-6-6 for Huntington? He’s an average GM? The actual number of times he has failed isn’t nearly as important as how big of a success or failure each move was.

If Capps proves last year was a fluke, and he has this newfound movement on his fastball, you can mark that up as a BIG loss. However, if Meek or Veal become consistent, reliable arms for the next few years on the team, you can equally count that as a BIG win. Not really fair to assess the same “win” or “loss” to a move like acquiring Denny Bautista or trading away Jesse Chavez.

Other than this, I have no problem with having an early opinion on the moves he has made, I, apart from most here, don’t think it’s too early to judge some moves. The Yankees deal was a clear win. As far as I’m concerned, right now, the Cubs trade was a clear loss. What happened with Ascaino they couldn’t have predicted, but I just had the feeling that NH made this move to fully clean house, as it was made after all the other major moves had already taken place. Struck me at the time, and now, as more of a statement than a move to make the club better.

by jlk9697 on May 2, 2010 6:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Lose-Lose

I don’t know if anyone mentioned this, but I’d say it’s pretty fair to characterize a lot of Neal Huntington trades as Lose-Lose. No, he hasn’t always recieved top grade talent, and things haven’t panned out great so far in some moves (Alderson, Clement, Morton), but do you think the Giants, Mariners, and Braves are sitting back laughing at the heist they pulled on Huntington? Nope.

by jlk9697 on May 2, 2010 7:01 PM EDT reply actions  

if anything

i would say he has for the most part won all his deals. the guys we got rid of have done little or nothing to help the teams they are currently on, or they are no longer even on the team we traded them too. the point is that alot of the guys we got were still waiting to see, but the guys we gave up have already failed. to me thats a win for us until we figure out what we have.

by C Shint on May 2, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

How is Alderson a win? He is in AA and throws like 80MPH..

by psunate77 on May 2, 2010 7:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Can’t say I really agree with you. Hard to evaluate a lot of these trades yet.

How is the acquisition of Robizon Diaz a loss by the way?

I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.

by Chester J Lampwick on May 2, 2010 8:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Good question

I don’t see how trading Jose Bautista for Robinzon Diaz was a bad move at all. We cleared up a spot for LaRoche at 3B, and got rid of a sub-par player. How is this a loss?

http://www.points2shop.com/?ref=GJS867

by H2O on May 2, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

And

he filled in ok for Doumit last year with JJ

by BlindSquirrel on May 3, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

If he hadn't been traded...

…(to Toronto or someone else) he probably would’ve been non-tendered that offseason.

by Vlad on May 4, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting this analysis excludes the most important aspect of a GM's resume....

The actual winning and losing part. – I mean afterall, that is the objective of professional sports:

Bonifay———— 616 – 775 = .442 %
Littlefield——— 442 – 581 = .432 %
Huntington—- -139 – 209 = .399 %

by Nutting Hostage on May 2, 2010 9:18 PM EDT reply actions  

It's not too hard to win 70-75 games a year

when one signs the type of players that Littlefield signed.

However, I thought this was obvious, and it’s worthless to argue it with you.

by ryebr3ad on May 2, 2010 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, you really wouldn’t mind winning 75 games a year, perhaps even cracking .500 once or twice, but without any hope of ever actually competing for a title?

Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89

Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.

by wg1of5 on May 2, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's Nutting Hostage

The ONLY way to get better is to sign ‘established major league players’, regression analysis be damned.

by ryebr3ad on May 3, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

You mean to tell me a team of young players who can only improve

winning 65 games this year gives you less hope than a team of aging veterans in their decline winning 70? Obviously you prove that you know nothing about this game called baseball.

by ryebr3ad on May 3, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

If you can't be objective about the team NH inherited and had to field,

peddle your fish elsewhere.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on May 2, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would prefer 50 wins with hope to 75 wins with no hope.

by MarkInDallas on May 3, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I enjoy 65 wins a year when it has a much greater chance of leading to 85-90 wins in two years.

You know, because players like McCutchen and LaRoche are entering their primes as opposed to their mid-life crises.

by ryebr3ad on May 3, 2010 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

oh!

and i mean dont forget about those guys like Alverez, Tabata and Sanchez too. I mean i really don’t know if i can stand seeing 65 wins with hope anymore!

by C Shint on May 3, 2010 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hmmm....

Reminds of this Smizik bog entry from March.

What were the Pirates supposed to get for Salomon Torres, Jose Bautista and Ronny Paulino? Salomon Torres benefited a lot from going to a team with a better defense, because if you look at his strikeout and walk rates, they were worse in Milwaukee than Pittsburgh. Ronny Paulino is a career back up catcher. Jose Bautista is lucky to have played on bad teams and get a starting job in Pittsburgh and Toronto.

by IAPiratesFan on May 2, 2010 11:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Now where exactly did I put that “Do NOT Feed The Trolls” sign?

by Brakeman8 on May 3, 2010 12:48 AM EDT reply actions  

One comment about labeling a trade a draw...

All trades are taken at a moment when the value of what each team is receiving is greater than what a team is giving up. However, that might not be measured in the exact value of those players exchanged.

You call Adam LaRoche for Argenis Diaz a draw. Obviously, Adam is a much better player than Diaz, is a better 1B than we currently have playing, and Diaz has only a slim chance of providing much value to the big league club. So, how can this be labeled a draw using any criteria that evaluates the players themselves?

Adam was traded because ultimately it was decided that he was not the answer we were looking for and it didn’t warrant spending a good chunk of money on him. We could probably have signed him for $10M a year for 3 years and “solved” the 1B question.

The problem with doing that is we wanted to find a better 1B in order to make the club more competitive in the future. If we had kept all the “good enough” solutions like Adam, Freddy and Jack, then the team wouldn’t have a chance to try out other solutions – one of which MIGHT be better. Not all the guys trying out will be better than Adam, of course. We’re just trying to find ONE which is. Pearce, Clement, Jones and even possibly Pedro could cycle through there in search of someone better. None of these guys would get the chance if Adam were manning 1B for the next 3 years.

This is similar to my post about how I felt Nyjer for Milledge was a mistake, but still understood the reasoning behind it. If you decide that Nyjer is not the answer you want to accept, then you might as well trade him for someone who MIGHT be the answer but probably isn’t.

by MarkInDallas on May 3, 2010 1:08 AM EDT reply actions  

What about

getting Jesus (more than a bag of balls) Brito for Brian Bixler?

by MDBuc on May 3, 2010 9:03 AM EDT reply actions  

Oh, good grief.

A few points:

1) Why are you only including certain transactions? You’ve got Garrett Jones on your list, so you’re obviously considering some free agent signings, and you’ve got some bullpen-related moves on there, so you obviously think that relievers are important enough to be considered for the purpose of your analysis, and yet none of this offseason’s free agent relief acquisitions are on your list. No Dotel, no Donnelly, no Carraso, etc.

2) Your analysis of the moves that ARE on the list seems pretty arbitrary. For instance, you’ve got Yates-for-Redmond down as a loss. Yates was no great shakes with us, to be sure, but Redmond was outrighted off the Braves’ 40-man roster over the offseason. Nobody even wanted him enough to use a waiver claim on him. As such, why is the trade a loss for us? We traded one commodity that ultimately had no value for another commodity that ultimately had no value.

3) An analysis of a GM’s methods will tell you little unless you separate the process-oriented elements from the results-oriented elements. You may know whether a given move succeeded or failed, but you won’t know why it succeeded or failed, and the latter is much more important from an analytical perspective.

by Vlad on May 3, 2010 9:53 AM EDT reply actions  

winning %

NH has a worse winning % than the last 2 gm, LOSS!!!!!.

by wishiewashie on May 3, 2010 10:23 AM EDT reply actions  

FOR REAL!

Bonifay had nearly 500 more wins than Huntington. 500! That’s almost 3 perfect seasons better than Neil. Neil sucks so much. Even Dave belongs on a littlefield had 300 more wins than Neil, so clearly we have just gotten worse and worse at the GM spot.

by Mr. E on May 3, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will also say

Trades are probably not the #1 thing to look at when rating the GM of the Pirates. The reason being that the road to prosperity for the Pirates lies in the development system, draft and international amateur free agent market.

Probably the number 1 thing that will help the Pirates is to get the most out of every player in the system. The Pirates must be better at teaching than other clubs.

On this most important point, there are some encouraging signs, but we won’t have the full picture for some more years.

by MarkInDallas on May 3, 2010 1:03 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree

However we can’t make turds into gold. We need some serious luck with our young players especially pitchers to compete in 2012.

We seem to have an issue developing young pitchers.

by eyeofhorus777 on May 3, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don’t know that you can say that about the pitchers. There were no top flight pitching prospects in the org when NH arrived. Not even Lincoln, really. There are some Littlefield draftees who have started to blossom under the new regime – Crotta and Owens, for example, and now Bryan Morris is looking good as well. Alderson is disappointing, but I don’t think that’s something you can pin on the FO.

by MarkInDallas on May 3, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Alderson's velocity was down before the deal.

That’s why we were even able to get him in the first place. If he’s broken, he broke before he got here.

by Vlad on May 3, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe that was the deal

a broken 2B for a maybe-broken-but-maybe-not-permanently-broken pitcher

by BurgherKing on May 3, 2010 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

There’s a chance that Alderson will recover some of his past stuff, and if he does, he’ll be a killer. High-risk, high-upside.

by Vlad on May 4, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

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