Charlie Morton Flops Again
by Charlie Wilmoth on May 27, 2010 11:37 PM EDT
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PrintWhen the local paper headlines a game story "Morton not being demoted," well, that doesn't suggest the game went well, does it? Morton allowed back-to-back homers to Scott Rolen and Jay Bruce in the first, allowed three runs in the second to make it seven (five earned) for the night, then hit the showers. Both the homers were on fastballs that were way up in the zone; they were just complete cookies. The Pirates continue to say they won't send Morton down, and at this point, it's an open question what Morton would have to do to finally change their minds. He's horrible. Brad Lincoln is scheduled to pitch Friday night against Charlotte.
In the minors, Hayden Penn got bombed for Indianapolis and at this rate may soon be known as "Indiana's Charlie Morton," but Indianapolis won anyway on the strength of a 4-for-5 night by Pedro Alvarez and a homer and triple by Kevin Melillo. Altoona got 4-hit in a 5-2 loss to Akron. Tony Sanchez, Jeremy Farrell and Calvin Anderson all turned in multiple-hit games for Bradenton, but the Marauders still lost 5-2 to Tampa. And West Virginia lost 5-3 to Lexington.
Some very minor transactions: 2006 second-round pick Mike Felix has been released. Dave Littlefield made some horrible draft picks in his day--and actually his 2007 and 2005 second rounders Duke Welker and Brad Corley were no better--but Felix ranks right up there. Unlike other early Littlefield picks like Welker, Danny Moskos and Taber Lee (among others), Felix actually wasn't a complete joke of a pick, at least not at the time; he managed to stick around the organization for several years despite horrible results and even a DUI, because lefties with velocity are hard to find. But four years on, he racked up more walks than strikeouts for his Pirates career.
And here's a follow-up on something I noted earlier: former Bucs minor league starter Nelson Pereira has signed with the Mets.
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Looking at the probably starters for the upcoming games...
If my math is right…
The next 6 games are Duke, Burres, Maholm, Ohlendorf, Morton, Duke… which gets us to the off-day on June 3rd
Maholm/Ohlendorf/Lincoln can then pitch the 4th/5th/6th of June on full rest
There is then another off-day after which Duke/Maholm/Ohlendof/Lincoln can pitch the 8th/9th/10th/11th of June on full rest
Morton/Burres only need to make one start each between now and June 12th if this is the approximate route they take. I hope this mildly comforts some of you.
Anyone else....
…think Jose DeLeon circa 84-86 when they see Charlie Morton? The stuff is there, just not able to make it work.
I actually made that comment a couple of weeks ago...
Didn’t he lose like 19-20 games one year and had great stuff?
DeLeon actually lost 19 games twice.
But he had solid stuff, and ended up having a pretty decent career. 102 ERA+ in 1800 career innings, and he led the league in Ks in ’89.
Yeah, you're right.
After I posted, I got to thinking that he didn’t have the ERA problems and early exit issues that Chuck has – I think he was actually an innings eater. I think he got next to no run support for most of his time in Pittsburgh – he gave up the big hit or the big inning here and there and was very unlucky, I seem to recall. I can remember broadcasters calling him one of the best pitchers to ever have a losing record at the time. So, in a sense, Chuck is a little like Deleon, but not nearly as complete a pitcher. In the end, the only valid comparison between the two might be their Pirates winning percentage.
Taber Lee...
I went to a Crosscutters game a few years ago and remember him being one of the “better” prospects on the team at the time.
…holy crap that was 2002. That’s farther back than I remember it. Brad Eldred was on that team too. Wow, Rajai Davis ended up being about the best player on that team, and he only played in one game. My friend knew a guy who was one of the ushers there and he got us great seats. Then they ended up rooming together on the south side for a bit…
Anyhoo, at least next year’s team had some decent players like Maholm, Gorzelanny and Morgan. We had Leo Nunez at one point? huh. Walker and Capps in 04…my friend said he went drinking a few times with Capps and his friend after Capps was called up.
…huh, Charlie Morton? Who?
My favorite moment from today’s game was when Neil Walker started running to first on strike two. No idea what was going on there. I get the feeling the mental side isn’t the strongest aspect of Walker’s game. There was also that pickoff at second by the catcher in a fairly important spot.
Might be an Allegheny County thing...
I recall Sean Casey doing something like that one time.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
I don’t even know what to say about Morton. In most of his other starts there were moments when you saw something at least. Today he was just terrible from the first pitch. Somehow he went from having 4 pitches to having two, and his fastball lost about 3-4 mph, then suddenly put them back on 15 hitters in. Seemed like he tried to hit the outside corner on every pitch, and I’m sure he shook off a ton of pitches that were supposed to be inside. He just looked lost today. I don’t see how you can justify leaving him up after this one.
For Morton its been most days
In his last 4 starts his ERA was still above 5 with all the quality starts.
by eyeofhorus777 on May 28, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
That's been the thing
The “promising” starts (save 1, iirc) have been subpar by the standards of any non-5th SP in the Majors.
BABIP and HR/FB
Tell me again how guys who throw chest-high meatballs are supposed to allow hits and HRs at rates similar to those of real, competent pitchers?
Thank god I was at a play tonight (Jitney, Downtown, really great cast and staging. They just extended it a week), and only invested a quick peak at my phone before being seated. What a waste of a night. For the Pirates, that is. I had a great time.
by JRoth95 on May 28, 2010 1:37 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Tell me again how guys who throw chest-high meatballs are supposed to allow hits and HRs at rates similar to those of real, competent pitchers?
Exactly.
by Adam Reynolds on May 28, 2010 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I've been wanting to see Jitney
And to think, I had never even heard of August Wilson until I moved here. Caught Radio Golf and the Public Theatre a couple of years back and loved it. Is that where Jitney is playing?
It's at Pittsburgh Playwrights
Which is – no joke – in a parking garage Downtown (across from Heinz Hall). They converted part of the second level of the garage into a lobby and theater – it’s weird, but the artistry is dead serious. They’ve sold out almost the entire run so far, so if you’re going to go, get tix in the next few days (you can do it online).
I like how you insult Morton's performance
and then immediately say you saw none of it. But, yeah you’re still right, 2 90mph gopher balls, elevated and right down the middle today. See. You. Later.
Wait a minute...
All NH talks about is fielding the best possible 25 players to fill the roster in order to put the most competitive team on the field. All I can do is laugh at that when he and JR continue to run Charlie Morton out there. Morton is an absolute joke and we have 0% chance to win when he pitches. This is crazy. It’s time to quit making excuses for him and feeding us this BS about how he’s making progress. Get him out of the rotation. Dude is garbage!
by mspirate on May 28, 2010 1:54 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I expected to see a beer makers loss, but hey its the cubs. And wow is that pop up video obnoxious B-R.
Your continual use
of the phrase “_ is garbage” is frankly, getting tiresome, and is somewhat insulting. These are people we’re talking about here.
As a collegian, I think you probably have a better grasp on vocabulary.
Perhaps this is a case of “Pot, meet kettle,” but I don’t think I’ve ever referred to someone as garbage. You are better than this, mspirate.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on May 30, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
“Make the balls look like strikes and the strikes look like balls”
- Greg Maddux
That great quote basically sums up what Charlie Morton can’t do. He throws way too many pitches that aren’t anywhere near the zone, and can be easily taken by anyone for balls. Unfortunately, he also throws too many down-the-middle, belt-high delights.
I haven’t been on the “demote Morton” bandwagon, but now is past time. Even his comparatively good starts contained warning signs. In his last outing against the Braves, he threw as many balls as strikes for the first four innings. He also grooved fastballs to some of the Braves’ worst hitters like Melky Cabrera. Even the Melkman can square up on a pitch right down the zipper.
I get the peripherals argument, but there’s simply more to it in this case. That is what I failed to take into account in BD moderator Charlie’s thread. Let him work out his issues in Indianapolis.
+1
I too haven’t been in favor of Morton’s demotion to Indy until after his outing tonight. He was just lost. End of story. You know what is really scarry? An Indy rotation with Charlie Morton AND Hayden Penn in it! I feel bad for those who attend Indians games regularly…
"So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded?! Yea. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets so a sample. There are 4 of us an you're retarded. Thats 25 percent." Southpark; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce
by gorillakilla34 on May 28, 2010 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah...ive been one of mortons biggest supporters all along...
but after tonight, it’s become pretty clear he needs to at the very least get his head straightened out. after the way he pitched after the all-star break last year, I KNOW he can be a solid if not outstanding MLB pitcher…just maybe not yet
Benny Benack III
Sad to say, Morton needs to go down and get this worked out at Indianapolis
You just can’t keep throwing this guy out there time and time again when the results just aren’t there. Yes, when he is on he misses bats and get ground balls. Then he throws one right down the pike and it gets belted.
I don’t know what his problem is, but he obviously can’t throw the ball where he wants to right now on a consistent basis. Until he can do that, he’s not going to be successful.
If his pitching was good he'd still need to be sent down
He needs to redo his windup, it’s simply too long.
It doesn’t make sense to try to make major changes to his mechanics at the major league level.
And he’s bad enough at the plate that he’s hurting the team even relative to pitcher replacement level. That’s hard to do, especially when you only make it to a plate appearance every other start. 9 strikeouts and a GIDP in 11 at bats has to be nearing some kind of record.
Even if he could completely turn things around (pitching wise), he’d still be at best a replacement level player given those two factors.
Morton MUST go!
He can’t make it through 2 innings without getting crushed. A trip to Indy has to be in the cards for Morton. He has the worst record in all of baseball 1-9! I think any starter in Indy would do better in 10 games. He is a AA pitcher at best.
Exactly why should we demote Morton?
Reasons we shouldn’t demote Morton:
1. We are not in competition for the playoffs
2. .500 is pretty much out of reach
3. Our offense is putrid
4. What better option is a replacement (assuming we bring up Lincoln for Burress)
5. He is still young
6. He has nothing to prove against AAA hitters
7. He still has 2/3 of a season to right the ship
Reasons we should demote Morton:
…..cant think of anything good. Yes he is almost a penciled in loss every time he takes the mound, but I would rather lose with a guy experts around the league qualify as a guy with good stuff than a retread from some AAA roster who has a career of spot starting in the MLB.
I am sick and tired of the losing, but there is still 2/3 of a season to go and we should go with the guys with the best stuff.
Then you offer
to be in the seats every time he pitches at PNC, as a show of support? You’ll gladly lay out your $18 or $26 to watch him get creamed game after game? You’ll be right there in the left field bleachers all, “Atta boy, Charlie, I know you” ducks screaming liner home run “have it in you”?
At some point you have to at least pretend to put a competitive team on the field.
Hey bucdaddy, cocktails and I were wondering if you are in for the BD gathering? Hope you’re feeling better!
Looks like we're in
My friend Paul, an occasional poster here, says he’ll investigate how to handle the transaction.
Thanks for asking, and yes, I’m looking reasonably solid healthwise.
I've paid perfectly good money...
…to watch Vogelsong and Armas and Oh-my! Olivares. I don’t see why I’d start drawing the line at Morton, of all people.
But you didn't
I assume, pick out their starts and attend them all as they got clobbered game after game, in the belief that they really had the stuff to pitch at a high level in the majors, did you?
What I’m saying is, it’s easy for vanslyke to say Morton should stay in there and get reamed game after game if he’s not sitting in the stands having to watch games that are 7-0 after two innings. People buying tickets deserve better than that, even from a team that sucks as bad as this one.
Coming from someone who’s bringing his in-laws (from Philly) to a game this Monday, I made a point to check the pitching matchup before buying tickets. It’s just not fun to watch a game in which you’re down by 7 early. Of course with Ohlendorf starting we have like a 20% chance of winning instead of a 10% chance, but hey.
charity standing orders
Your arguement is baseless
Your arguement for sending Morton down is so that fans can watch good baseball. Fans come to games for the experience of PNC Park. The product on the field is secondary. You are delusional to think that a Morton start = less fanies in the seats. Fans will come to PNC Park because it is baseball, it is summer and “fill in the blank” giveaway. Please stop being so sanctimonious about good baseball. I promise that Morton could start on a random Friday and if there is good weather and fireworks, the game will be a sell out. I can also promise the Morton would start on random Thursday getaway day and there will be 5,000 fans.
Bottom line – good baseball does not indicate fan attendance. Give Morton the ball every 5th day!
There’s bad baseball and then there’s a non-anomalous 9+ ERA over 10 starts.
charity standing orders
OMG
“Non-anomalous” is a misnomer after 9 starts. That is like saying that we should DFA a prospect after a sub .100BA over 200 ABs. You wouldnt throw away a position player after 200 ABs – especially someone who is generally regarded around baseball as toolsy. The same way you wouldnt demote a pitcher with “good” stuff after 10 starts ESPECIALLY after last year’s body of work.
You all need to settle down. We arent chasing first place or a wildcard. It is better to let Morton start and decide this year than put him in the minors, trade him or release him for a sandwich and have him go somewhere else and figure it out. He is only 25!
Well, of course not.
I only go to maybe a dozen games a year. But I didn’t try and pick and choose away from the Vogelsong starts when buying tickets either, if that’s what you mean.
I go to a game to see a game
the matchups are secondary. Are you telling me that you check the lineups before you go in case they would bench McCutchen?
Speaking of a McCutchen
I went to a game Daniel McCutchen started. He pitched terribly and we won on a walk-off. You can’t really predict how games will go, especially when Morton can be really good on any given night.
I sort of felt this way last year, though
When Gorzelanny and Ian Snell were in AAA, and in the end, whether or not it was actually the AAA time, they both pitched much better when they came back up. The situations are different, for sure — Gorzelanny did have a longer period of ineffectiveness than Morton before the Bucs finally sent him down, but he also had a longer period of effectiveness, and his ineffectiveness wasn’t as alarming as Morton’s, plus Snell’s demotion was supposedly self-imposed, but in the long run, I do think Morton could go down for a little, and if he dominates (far from a sure thing at this point), he can come back up and pitch better in the long run. Giving innings to nonprospects like Karstens or Burres in the meantime wouldn’t be detrimental to the long-term if it ends up getting Morton back on track.
elvishasleft.com
bestweekever.tv
Please
Do you really think that if Charlie Morton pitches on a Saturday evening with Fireworks and a Collective Soul concert that the stadium would be any less sold out?
Do you really think that if Charlie Morton pitches on a random rainy Tuesday in June that the part will be any more empty?
We have suffered through Kip Wells and his “great potential” for 3+ seasons. Why the hell cant we give this kid a full season?
As far as supporting the team, I have followed them daily since 1985 (8 years old). I have seen the real ugly (1985), ugly (1986), promising (1987-1989), good (1990-1992), and the last 18 years. Morton has been epically bad for the first 2 months, but lets at least give him a season.
Charlie needs to trust his stuff.
Which sounds easier than it evidently is.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
Can Morton throw borderline ball/strikes in practice, or does he only break down in game situations? If he can’t even do it when no one is watching at this point, then side sessions or simulated games with the Pirates coaches might be in order.
Did someone say coaches?
They gonna mess around and get choked!
"So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded?! Yea. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets so a sample. There are 4 of us an you're retarded. Thats 25 percent." Southpark; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce
by gorillakilla34 on May 28, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Heard from a friend in the organization...
Morton’s going to be sent to the DL and Jackson will be brought up for relief.
Stay tuned.
Confirmed on Twitter by BucsInsider and RobBiertempfel
The Pirates have placed RHP Charlie Morton on the DL with right shoulder fatigue and have selected RHP Steven Jackson from Triple-A.
As badly as he's pitched in aggregate this year...
…who’s going to argue the point? It’s not like MLB can strap him to a lie detector and ask whether the arm hurts.
Is Jackson on the 40-man roster?
I didn’t think he was. Anybody know who they are going to remove if not?
There’s an open spot on the 40 man from Brian Bass. He was out of options so they DFAed him a short while back.
Anyone see Morton made a laughingstock on sportscenter last night.
The placed his stats side by side of Ubaldo Jiminez of the Rockies. He is 9-1 while Morton is 1-9.
The proceeded to go into gory detail how the two are not similar (duh) and showed mock pity on discussing poor Morton any further.
Yeah, just think when he gets to 1-15 before the AS break ESPN will be running a Morton meter to show his futility.
Morton's also a few months older than Ubaldo...
..as if the stats weren’t enough of a kick in the nuts.
Also, Vanslyke: Morton is 26 and will be 27 when the season wraps up in October. He should be on the upswing of his peak given his age, experience, and stuff. These results are frightening. Perhaps the time off to get away from the criticism, work some things out in the minors, and develop some confidence will go a long way for Morton. I still worry though that as soon as he gets into trouble, even if he just threw a no hitter, the confidence sinks and the implosion begins.
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