Top prospects
by joegonzo on Jun 12, 2010 2:59 PM EDT
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I know it is early, but if you had to make a top prospects list right now, what would it look like? To make it more interesting, you can include all of the recent draft picks and guys who just got called up like Tabata, Lincoln, and even Walker(though he probably isn't one anymore). You can make it however long you want to. I am also going to give them grades much like John Sickels does on his blog. My top 15 would look like this:
1. Pedro Alvarez A
2. Jameson Taillon A-
3. Tony Sanchez B+
4. Bryan Morris B+
5. Neil Walker B+
6. Stetson Allie B
7. Jose Tabata B
8. Brad Lincoln B
9. Zach Von Rosenberg B-
10. Jeff Locke B-
11. Starling Marte B-
12. Justin Wilson B-
13. Chase D'arnaud C+ or B-
14. Nathan Adcock C+
15. Danny Moskos :) C+
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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I did a list a couple of days ago for another site:
A
1.Pedro Alvarez
2.Jameson Taillon – n
B
3.Bryan Morris
4.Stetson Allie – n
5.Tony Sanchez
6.Neil Walker
7.Jose Tabata
8.Justin Wilson
9.Starling Marte
10.Colton Cain – n
11.Zack Von Rosenberg – n
C+ or C
12.Jeff Locke
13.Nate Adcock – n
14.Brad Lincoln
15.Quinton Miller – n
16.Rudy Owens
17.Brock Holt
18.Jarek Cunningham – n
19.Josh Harrison
20.Rob Grossman
21.Tim Alderson
22.Chase D’Arnaud
23.Victor Black – n
Forgot about Owens...
he would be on their over Moskos. I was jk about him. I would actually put Owens at 13 and move evryone else down. I find it interesting that you have Adcock over Lincoln. Adcock doesn’t really have any kind of plus stuff. He is much like a right handed Owens. Maybe worse.
ETHAN MARTIN!!!!
I put an “n” next to players I’ve never seen play yet, so I’ll take your word on Adcock and move him to 16 and bump Lincoln/Miller/Owens up.
by Adam Reynolds on Jun 12, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I will include Walker and Tabata. This is based on pure upside.
1. Jameson Taillon
2. Pedro Alvarez
3. Stetson Allie
4. Bryan Morris
5. Jose Tabata
6. Tony Sanchez
7. Rudy Owens
8. Neil Walker
9. Starling Marte
10. Zach von Rosenburg
11. Josh Harrison
12. Tim Alderson
13. Colton Cain
14. Chase d’Arnaud
15. Gorkys Hernandez
Not a fan of Harrison at all
1. Alvarez
2. Taillon
3. Allie
4. Tabata
5. Morris
6. Sanchez
7. Lincoln
8. Walker
9. Marte
10. Von Rosenburg
11. Owens
12. Locke
13. Wilson
14. D’Arnaud
15. Chambers
+1 for Chambers
OPS: .681(april), .818(may), 1.034(june), incredible plate discipline and growing power (4 hrs this half-month!). our position player depth is shallow but Chambers is really impressive!
Top Prospects without Pedro, Tabata, Lincoln, and Walker since they all will be up
1. Jameson Taillon RHP *
2. Bryan Morris RHP
3. Tony Sanchez C
4. Stetson Allie RHP *
5. Starling Marte OF
6. Rudy Owens LHP
7. Jeff Locke LHP
8. Tim Alderson RHP
9. Robbie Grossman OF
10. Zach Von Rosenberg RHP
11. Quinton Miller RHP
12. Nathan Adcock RHP
13. Gorkys Hernandez OF
14. Diego Moreno RHP
15. Colton Cain LHP
16. Mel Rojas Jr. OF *
17. Justin Wilson LHP
18. Chase D’Arnaud SS/2B
19. Josh Harrison 3B/2B
20. Daniel Moskos LHP
21. Victor Black RHP
22. Brock Holt SS/2B
23. Jarek Cunningham SS/2B/3B
24. Brooks Pounders RHP
25. Nick Kingham RHP *
i
am enjoying the fact that if we exclude tabata, walker and alvarez the majority of the top prospects are all pitching. kinda nice to know that your organizations strong point is pitching, thats how perrinial winners like the braves did it in the 90s
I'm not great with DH rules
Can Doumit move to DH next inning and have Jones play first?
Wow
I can’t say I know enough about these guys to make my own list, but I am pretty shocked that ZVR is pulling 9, 10, 11 on these lists. Is the system getting that much better or has everyone soured that much on the guy before he’s even really pitched?
It's a good day to be a Pirate
i think the answer is in
“before he’s even really pitched”
we ve heard a lot of good things about him, but he still is a guy who fell from a supplemental round projection to the 6th round. How high you want to rate him is your call. I can understand rating him high (and even Sickels had him around 6 i think) or going as low as 10, although I wouldnt put him behind grossman…
by BurgherKing on Jun 13, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it's guys stepping up
Morris, Locke, Owens, Marte have all been great to this point. Not to mention adding Taillon and Allie and still having Pedro and Sanchez. The ones slipping are Gorkys, Alderson, and D’Arnaud.
I went to another curve game tonight, and got to see Hughes get knocked around pretty good so i can see why he isn’t on anyones list. i had a question about the catcher for the curve Hector Gimenez. I haven’t heard much about him, but i was checking out his stats at the game and the guy is batting .337 with 10 dingers. Anybody know much about the guy? Is he even considered a prospect?
top ten
1) Jameson Taillon
2) Stetson Allie
3) Tony Sanchez
4)Bryan Morris
5) Rudy Owens
6) Zach Von Rosenburg
7) Chase D’Arnaud
8) Jeff Locke
9) Mel Rojas Jr
10) Starling Marte
Hmmm
1. Alvarez A- | Although he has hit lefties well this season I still see that, his strikeout rate (which is getting better) and the fact that he is still a question mark on defense as factors keeping him from being an A.
2. Jameson Tallion A- | A special arm with a plus makeup easily overcome doubts raised over the fact that he got hit in high school from time to time. Still, he hasn’t pitched an inning of baseball against kids already with a high school diploma.
3. Jose Tabata B+ | Almost everyone has soured some on Tabata. While his contact and speed ability project him as a everyday starter I still believe that he has significant untapped power potential, especially since I do think he is, in fact, 21. I see 25+ HR in his prime which could be right around the corner, when we will need it.
4. Neil Walker B | I’ve always been a staunch supporter in Walker, or at least his youth. In an effort to silence his critics, Neil Walker significantly improved his on base ability while continuing to hit for solid power and play great defense. In my opinion he is the 2B of the future in Pittsburgh where he will be an above average everyday starter.
5. Tony Sanchez B | The first round draft pick by the Pirates in 2009, he has did his best to show he deserved to be picked 4th overall in that draft class. After raking in rookie ball and then at low A West Virginia (before a late season playoff promotion to Lynchburg) he has continued to hit well for high A affiliate Bradenton. With only his bat holding him back, he will face his first major test when he gets promoted to AA Altoona which should be sometime soon.
6. Bryan Morris B | One of the players received in the infamous Jason Bay trade, Morris has finally lived up to his billing this year. After a disappointing 2009 season, Morris was arguably the best pitcher in Bradenton’s league for the first several weeks of the season. I only say the first several weeks because he was quickly promoted where he has continued to dazzle. Since he is still young, has great stuff, and could be in AAA by the end of the season, we could be looking at the Pirates Ace, at least until Taillon arrives.
7. Starling Marte B- | Unfortunately sidelined by an injury that will slow his development, Marte displayed the best tools across the board in the system by a solid margin. The owner of (at least) plus contact ability, glove, arm, and speed, he also projects to have plus power. Still raw, but if he puts it all together he could be an absolute stud.
8. Brad Lincoln B- | After bouncing back from TJ surgery to have an excellent 2009 season Lincoln has picked up where he left off, recently reaching the big leagues after pitching well in Indy. While his debut didn’t look to good on the stat sheet (5 ER) Lincoln could still be an effective no2 or no3 inning eater in Pittsburgh for years to come.
9. Stetson Allie B- | While I love his velocity, questions surrounding his future role and the fact that he is more of a raw thrower than a pitcher at this point prevent me from rating him higher.
10. Rudy Owens B- | Easily the most improved player in the system last year, Owens has continued to pitch well in AA this year. Although he projects as more of a mid to back end of the rotation guy, that is still very valuable, especially if hes a good mid to back end rotation guy (Dana Eveland or Brian Burress anyone?)
11. Tim Alderson B-
12. Chase D’Arnaud B-
13. Zack Von Rosenberg B-
14. Robbie Grossman C+
15. Jeff Lock C+
16. Josh Harrison C
17. Brock Holt C
18. Jarek Cunningham C
19. Diego Moreno C
20. Gorkys Hernandez C-
Honorary Member – Alex Presley
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jun 13, 2010 1:06 AM EDT reply actions
I knew I'd forget someone
I’d probably put Miller as a C+ behind Locke*** so at 16. then bump everyone else down.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jun 13, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Holt over Harrison...
all day. Harrison can hit for a high average, but Holt does pretty much everything else better than him.
ETHAN MARTIN!!!!
I put Harrison
ahead simply because of the level difference. I don’t see either as particularly significant prospects, although it does look like Holt has the higher ceiling.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jun 13, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree on most of the grades on your top 10.
But I can’t go higher than a B+ for a pitcher with no pro experience, and I think a C+ is more appropriate for Lincoln.
Not much difference...
Other than it’s comparing a 2nd round pick to a 28th, I’m not sure what makes Jeff Locke (age 22, 55/11 in 58 innings at A+) a better prospect than Rudy Owens (age 22, 54/13 in 71 innings at AA). I suspect when Locke comes up he’ll produce results pretty much identical to Owens’.
Owens dominated A ball last year much more than Locke is this year, and at a year younger to boot. I think people are sleeping on Owens because he came out of nowhere and doesn’t throw 95. Locke might have the higher ceiling based on stuff (though Owens’ stuff is pretty good, mind) but overall he and Owens have to be close to even as prospects.
Stuff counts in grading, too.
Owens has handled the transition to AA pretty well, but I’m a bit leery due to the drop in his K rate.
I think his performance at AAA will tell us a lot about him, one way or the other.
Tidbits
Not going to do with a full list, but…
- Taillon’s an A+ prospect, assuming he signs. We’re talking about the #1 pitcher in the draft here, and not just in the Bryan Bullington sense, either.
- Tony Sanchez is not that good a prospect. He’s having injury problems already, which is why he’s not at AA yet; that he’s been ripping up A-ball pitchers isn’t that surprising. He’s still a low ceiling IMO. We’d be happy with a starter and are not expecting a star.
- Brad Lincoln, on the other hand, is the real deal if his arm holds together, the best pitcher to put on a Pirates uniform since that one magical Oliver Perez season.
*Justin Wilson’s striking a lot of guys out at AA, but his stuff profiles more like a Paul Maholm type to me, a #4 on a good team. I’m not a scout and since I disagree with the scouts about this I’m likely wrong, but I like Owens’ upside better. It’s awesome having to make such a choice, though.
- Danny Moskos, as a reliever, has real stuff and is likely going to be a lot more than just a LOOGY in the majors.
Not Sickels's grading scale, Taillon isn't.
For Sickels, an A+ is a guy where there’s no chance of him being anything other than a star-level performer. He didn’t give guys like Prior or Strasburg an A+. How could you give it to a guy who hasn’t even pitched in the pros yet?
Also, Maholm is a strange comp for Wilson. Wilson doesn’t have Maholm’s command, and Maholm doesn’t have Wilson’s natural movement.
So who has got an A+ grade?
Someone who strikes out 27/game on 81 pitches with a robotic arm that throws the ball so hard it passes through the catcher and umpire and his curve ball has such spin that it develops gas rings before it reaches the batter?
I don’t understand the reason for an A+ grade if its unobtainable.
He's supposedly given serious consideration...
…to giving it to both Mauer and Howard, but I don’t think he’s ever handed one out. He’s openly wondered whether it would ever be appropriate to give one to a pitcher, due to the inherent injury risk they all carry.
Sickels is a tough grader. That’s why his grades have value.
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