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Buy low on Jason Bartlett (UPDATED)



Is there any possibility that Huntington puts together a trade for Jason Bartlett?  I was just reading about the logjam of young talent the Rays have up the middle, with no place to put him once he returns from the DL: Briegnac, Rodriguez, with Zobrist also able to play up the middle if needed with their deep talent at OF as well.  They also have Beckham in the minors, though he is a ways away.

I have touched on it before, but I think with our young pitchers, as well as young IF of Pedro, Walker, (Pearce/ Clement/Jones?) RonRon :(edeno is the one huge hole in our lineup that has no chance to improve anytime soon, and a young vet like Bartlett could go a long way in shoring things up on D, while plugging that black hole in the batting order.  Many people point to :(edeno's D but even if he is a + glove at SS, his hitting is terrible.  While this better than a no/ glove no bat, and common in MLB, as someone pointed out in the comments, it can be hidden on the best teams, a weak bat at SS is still a weakness and hurts teams without great lineups even more.  On a weak hitting team it's just an automatic out.  For every Vizquel or Ozzie Smith there are 50 :(edenos and Rey Ordonez's.

Look at the teams in the playoffs last year

Yankees (Jeter), Phillies (Rollins), Twins (acquired O Cabrera), Cardinals (had Lugo, used Ryan and his 340 OPS), Dodgers (Furcal), Angels (Aybar, 350 OPS ), Red Sox (Acquired Alex Gonzalez), Colorado (Tulo)

 

Can we get him?


Obviously there would be a lot of teams interested in adding a good, affordable, relatively young glove at SS who has  hit at or near 300 the past few years, but I just think it would make us better in the immediate future and in the next few years without spending too much money or blocking anyone.  I know most people would laugh at the idea of us being "buyers" around the trade deadline, but this wouldnt be in the traditional "rent-a-player" sense.  We would be buying low on him as he was not hitting well this year and has been on the DL with a  hamstring injury that may even keep him from helping too much this year.  That may reduce competition for him, and we would be making the type of trade that you usually see in the offseason...during the season while they have a situation to deal with and his stock is low.  It would be more of a move for the next 2-3 years than this year.



And no need to point out how our last trade for an injured Rays IF went.  If anything they owe us a favor, but in all seriousness at least there is a precedent for making this sort of trade with the Rays.

 

Who do we trade?

 

The Ray's need relievers and obviously we have some of those to spare (well not really, but they're of value to other teams and we can just sign replacements in the offseason because this year is history).  Possibly Dotel could be enough to pry Bartlett lose but I would be skeptical. 

 

Our biggest trade chip appears to be Doumit.  The Ray's have been looking for affordable production from the DH spot and Doumitt fits the bill perfectly.  He has an affordable contract, a good bat and terrible glove.  Everyone knows he's better off in the AL.  However, a straight swap, many would argue, leaves the Buccos on the short end.  In that sense we would need someone else in the package coming back...which would probably be too much.  In which case my hypo-trade is this: Dotel, Doumit and cash for Bartlett and Matt Joyce. 

Joyce is a classic Huntington target - great minor league track record, poor in brief stint in the majors.  Potential (phantom ) power that has yet to develop and has fallen out of favor with other teams (traded for Jackson, poor showing for Rays).  While the Rays will need young OF talent given Crawford and Uptons situations, they have Jennings and Ruggiano knocking on the door, in addition to catching talent they can put in the OF and seem more likely to move Joyce.  Given that MIlledge isn't looking like the answer, I like the idea of a Tabata-McCutchen- Joyce OF in the future.

 

Is this really an improvement?

 

Another point that will come up from this trade is: How much better would this make us?  If Doumit is gone that means we have Jamarillo behind the plate, at least until Sanchez arrives, hopefully late next year.  The first thought is well now we have a Glove first, weak bat playing a premium D position, just a different one.  However, I think the 3 keys are:

1.  Jamarillo would just be a place holder till Sanchez arrives (assuming we dont sign a 1 year FA in the offseason)

2.  Bartlet is = Ronny with teh glove and much better with the bat.  Jamarillo worse than Doumit with the bat, but Much better on D.  What we gain at C defense and SS offense is worth more than we lost at C offense.

3.  If we can get another potential difference maker (Joyce) than we have greatly improved in the long term while not becoming worse short term.

 

In the end I just think that having any guys who are terrible on offense will just continue to hurt a team like us and there appears to be no one in the near future to shore up the position.  I realize that towards the end everything got really "if, but, or and then" but I'm just suggesting ways to improve the team with what we have.  I think it would be great to address this weakness for the near future, and years to come while moving guys we could/should move anyway.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.

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While I certainly wouldn't mind getting Bartlett (along with other teams).....

I don’t believe that Ronny Cedeno has been the problem this year. A lot of teams have weak bats/low OBP out of the SS position, as long as he can field. Cedeno’s advanced metrics actually show an above-average glove at a premium defensive position.

Is Cedeno the long-term answer at SS? Most likely no. However, I think he deserves some credit for his play this year, at least relative to some others.

by CabreraKilledMyChildhood on Jun 15, 2010 12:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Yes, but...

it’s getting tiresome having a shortstop that’s all glove and NO bat. Granted, you need a good defensive SS, but we need just a little help offensively from that position. Jack Wilson didn’t have a bat (although I didn’t really care b/c he was the best defensive SS in all of baseball, IMO) and Cedeno dang sure doesn’t have a bat.

by mspirate on Jun 15, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Pirates will use this year’s defensive numbers to give him to us next year, even though his career defense (larger sample) is mediocre.

The other teams with weaker bats at SS include the Padres (dominating pitching), Cardinals (offset by Pujols and Holliday), Astros (they’re doing well), and Orioles (no problems here…)

by Adam Reynolds on Jun 15, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

How about Dotel

and Donnelley for Bartlett they need some bullpen right?

by hilltoppeer on Jun 15, 2010 12:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Not realistic

TB would laugh at that trade.

DL may even laugh at that trade.

by Bernie6 on Jun 15, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry ...

my mistake. I see so many ridiculous trades posted on websites.

I didn’t realize it was a joke.

Sorry.

by Bernie6 on Jun 15, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

On my way to a dr appt, but pdate coming later

I think Doumitt could be the DH bat they’ve needed since the the BUrrell experiment failed and could spell Navarro, as they’re also looking at catchers. more later

RIP NATE. RIP TONY PLUSH.

"I'D BE A CHEF"

-TONY PLUSH

by GTrain on Jun 15, 2010 12:19 PM EDT reply actions  

I wouldn't really want give Doumit

But that would be better than having a Dana Eveland type situation.

by hilltoppeer on Jun 15, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Theriot?

I know it could be tough to trade inside the division, but why not take a look at Ryan Theriot as a SS. Defensively, he seems to play better at 2nd, but his bat could be an upgrade over Cedeno. Plus, he could have some upside left.

Still, I’m not so soured with Ronny that I’d overspend in one of these deals.

by Yotum on Jun 15, 2010 12:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Buyers

“I know most people would laugh at the idea of us being “buyers” around the trade deadline, but this wouldnt be in teh traditional “rent-a-player” sense."
_____________________________________

IMO the trade deadline is the perfect time to be buyers. The Pirates could pick up someone good that another team is dumping because of salary. Even if they don’t win anything this year, taking a quality player, paying that quality player and setting things up for next year to me is a good move. I can’t think of any other way they are going to add an impact player to this team. Pedro is the last from the system for a while, they could use a high end starting pitcher or SS.

by leadoff on Jun 15, 2010 12:50 PM EDT reply actions  

If you buy stuff at the deadline...

…you almost always pay like half again as much as you would at any other time of year.

The best time to be a buyer is the offseason, because the large number of free agents drives down the return from trades (by increasing player supply). The second-best time to be a buyer is the last week of spring training, when teams are all straining to try and create extra roster spots.

by Vlad on Jun 15, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Possible Available Shortstops

Bartlett
Theriot
Jose Reyes
Yuni Betancourt (oh God)
Stephen Drew

4 of those are actual options, Yuni is awful, but is exactly what NH goes after. Be afraid!

by H2O on Jun 15, 2010 12:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Why would NH target Yuni?

Dan Fox’s defensive metrics hate-hate-hate him.

by Vlad on Jun 15, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Mariners loved him,

and they extended him, and then he began to get worse and worse. Now he sucks, but he’s a reclamation possibility.

by H2O on Jun 15, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Probably worth tracking Khalil Greene.

Just on the off chance that he manages to get his head straightened out after a year off.

by Vlad on Jun 15, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

2004

was greene’s only good year.if you can sign him to a minor league contract and his major league deal is dirt cheap,maybe and just maybe.

by srman on Jun 15, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would say that he was at least tolerable...

…every year from ‘04-’07, and it’s possible that his performances in the two subsequent years were affected by his anxiety disorder.

Not necessarily a high probability of him returning to his former level, but like I said, worth monitoring just in case.

by Vlad on Jun 15, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

on the cheap

if he is able to come back ,is the only way this team should look at him.he still was a one year wonder then went south, so you have to be very leery

by srman on Jun 15, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, yeah, exactly.

He was only going to be a NRI this year, before he bailed on the Rangers. I doubt he’d be looking for much more next year, if he were ready to come back and play.

by Vlad on Jun 15, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yuni

is terrible. I’d rather have Cedeno.

by Bernie6 on Jun 15, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Theroit

I would trade within the division to get him.
We have a lot of players to trade for him. We have Duke, LaRoach, Milledge, Aki, couple of bullpen pitchers, couple of prospects. Any one or a combo of two with a prospect might get him.

by leadoff on Jun 15, 2010 12:54 PM EDT reply actions  

None of those things have the same value.

Some are more valuable than Theriot in and of themselves, never mind plus one or two prospects. Others have significant negative value.

by Vlad on Jun 15, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

Trade a guy with excess value plus a guy with negative value, and you get Theriot. Done and done.

by JRoth95 on Jun 15, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even a lot of minor league C-grade shortstops look like they could outproduce Bobby and Ronny.

Tyler Greene is hardly a top prospect for the Cardinals, but his major league equivalent OPS has been solid the last two years:

2009: .255/.314/.399 – .713
2010: .266/.316/.401 – .717

SS doesn’t have to be Bartlett, and it doesn’t even have to be Greene. There are quite a few lower-tier prospects in the minors that are younger and can at least put up a MLE OPS in the high .600s. We could swing a low-impact deal for one of these players.

Shortstops hit badly, but they aren’t supposed to hit this badly (.266 OBP, .604 OPS for Cedeno in the past 2 seasons, lowest in majors except for our old friend Cesar Izturis (.591 OPS last 2 seasons, but much higher OBP at .289)). Crosby isn’t doing any better.

by Adam Reynolds on Jun 15, 2010 12:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Crosby not hitting shouldn't be a surprise.

Given that he was coming off four consecutive years with an OPS in the low .600s.

by Vlad on Jun 15, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another FA acquisition that has been.....

less than stellar, to be kind.

The FA’s have been my biggest gripe with NH. Other than them (with all the mitigating circumstances that go into it), I am pretty happy with the FO.

by CabreraKilledMyChildhood on Jun 15, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, how much...

…do you want from a UT IF. If those guys could hit, they’d be starting somewhere.

by Vlad on Jun 15, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Free agents

When you are signing from the bargain bin, that’s what you get.

It’s not like NH didn’t want Teix.

by Bernie6 on Jun 15, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cashman wanted DY for Teix

And NH turned him down flat. Teix can’t play as many positions, you see.

by JRoth95 on Jun 15, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously, those are the mitigating circumstances.....

If they were any good, we wouldn’t have gotten them for the money we did. I get that.

I am just saying that none of these guys worked out. Factual statement that needs to be placed in proper context. I thought everyone knew the mitigating circumstances, since there was another thread just a day or so ago that was started by dtoodwin.

by CabreraKilledMyChildhood on Jun 15, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

but

as a utility player ,he is ok.only cost a million.

by srman on Jun 15, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

if not crosby who?

cruz or bixler as the utility infielder.

by srman on Jun 15, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

it would be nice for next june to look like

CF-Cutch
LF-Jose
3b-Pedro
2b-Wlaker
ss-Bartlett
RF-Jones
1B-Pearce/ Clement
C-Sanchez (Hopefully)
In no particular order

by hilltoppeer on Jun 15, 2010 1:39 PM EDT reply actions  

We still need a 1B or RF/LF, depending on Jones and Tabata’s alignment. Unless Pearce can show 30HR power, we can’t let him be a long term answer.

Also, Bartlett isn’t that great of a hitter either, but he would certainly be a respectable SS, and would buy us time to develop someone.

by H2O on Jun 15, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

30 HRs isn't the only answer.

Pearce could provide enough OBP and XBH with 18-20 HRs to be very useful. Not saying he WILL, but that’s what he could provide.

by MarkInDallas on Jun 15, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

But considering that we are using a LF with no power, and have just one 40 HR threat in Alvarez, I think we need another power hitter.

by H2O on Jun 15, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Have to disagree, sorry.

You don’t ever “need” power, except insofar as power is an efficient way of generating runs. If you have a team full of guys hitting .350, though, you’ll do just fine without any longballs at all.

by Vlad on Jun 15, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Apparently TB had resources that were unavailable to the Pirates at the time of the Aki trade: A Scale. Maybe they should’ve broken out that tape measurerer that was down in bradenton tracking Pedro HR’s

RIP NATE. RIP TONY PLUSH.

"I'D BE A CHEF"

-TONY PLUSH

by GTrain on Jun 15, 2010 3:05 PM EDT reply actions  

I’m not that high on Bartlett because he’s at age 30 without very much left on his contract. Also last year was basically his career year.

Get someone who is young, better at least than Cedeno/Crosby, and with 5 years of control (with 2-3 cheap years) if you can for the right price. The supporting cast for the Cutch/Jones/Alvarez/Tabata Show don’t have to be stars, but they should be serviceable.

Argenis Diaz is not the answer at any point in the future, although D’Arnaud might be if he rights the ship (I wouldn’t take him for granted at this point though).

by Adam Reynolds on Jun 15, 2010 3:20 PM EDT reply actions  

That’s part of the buy low/ appeal I think. He’s 30 and approaching arbitration, so they may be more willing to part with him. He’s not a world beater so he shouldn’t get too much in Arb, and I think 3 years of Bartlett 31, 32, 33 is worth 3 mil a year. Since it’s not a contract we can always cut ties or trade him if he fades.

RIP NATE. RIP TONY PLUSH.

"I'D BE A CHEF"

-TONY PLUSH

by GTrain on Jun 15, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s going to be a free agent after 2011, from what I gather.

Sure, the price could be so low that we make out well. I’m not thrilled with him, though.

by Adam Reynolds on Jun 15, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Man if only that trade would have went through with Tampa Bay for Jason Bay

Reid Brignac and Jeff Nieman would look unbelievable on this team right now…damn Neal would have made out like no other

by BigB2323 on Jun 15, 2010 3:36 PM EDT reply actions  

It's never been confirmed...

…that Tampa was willing to part with Brignac. There were post-trade sources that said that they were, but there were also ones that said that they weren’t, and there’s no way to know one way or the other.

by Vlad on Jun 15, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Vlad

You are correct that no one has ever confirmed it.

But I’d say I’m 90 percent sure based on NH’s statements and based out of leaks from TB.

I think the Davis, Hellickson part was the killer in that deal.

The Pirates, as other teams did, viewed Nieman as an underachiever and injury risk.

by Bernie6 on Jun 15, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

When NH acknowledged (to DK) that there was another offer on the table that, in retrospect, would have been a better outcome, I think that was as close to confirmation as you’ll ever get. Certainly no other viable package has been speculated on.

by JRoth95 on Jun 15, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Huh.

When I read that quote about in retrospect there being a better Bay package out there, I thought he was referring to the torpedoed Cleveland deal from the previous year, the one with Lee, Gutierrez, and Shoppach in it.

by Vlad on Jun 15, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Vlad

Maybe. I read the quote as saying it was out there at the time he took the three-team deal.

The Cleveland deal wasn’t out there. It was accepted, I thought, pending management approval.

Now there was a Braves proposal out there that NH also reportedly agreed to. But that offer didn’t seem to be an upgrade over what the Pirates had taken.

by Bernie6 on Jun 15, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

He did not say it was out there at that time, I don't think. And...

You also have to remember when he said this. It was before the resurgence of Bryan Morris. At the time Huntington said that, Morris had fallen and was a worse prospect than when the Pirates got him. Now, he is a better prospect than when the trade happened.

by MarkInDallas on Jun 15, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

We would still have Jose Bautista too.

He isn’t that great of a hitter, but with Pedro coming up, I’m sure someone might give something for a guy who is leading the league in HRs.

by H2O on Jun 15, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Doumit for Bartlett (as a base) fills needs for both teams.

by Suffering Buc on Jun 15, 2010 4:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Doumit and Dotel

for Bartlett and Joyce is great for both imho. That would move Jones 1b for good and let him focus more on hitting than improving outfield defense, with Pedro batting 5th Jones will see more pitches. Then Pearce could be moved a to platoon role against some lefties and our key PH guy with an occasional start in OF. This stuff gets me all worked up.

by hilltoppeer on Jun 15, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Joyce

I don’t think the Bucs have what it takes to go a TB infielder.

But I do think Joyce may be available. I also think he’d be an upgrade.

Not that the Pirates need another OF. But he did hit for some power two years ago.

by Bernie6 on Jun 15, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Joyce

Ya it seems like some of the luster has fallen off. Of course we’d be trading one of our veterans with a contract (Doumit) for an injured TB IF and another former Tigers OF prospect who someone else got in a trade then soured on. Not that I think any of that matters but if it doesnt have Bob Smizik Pullitzer submission all over it I dont know what does

RIP NATE. RIP TONY PLUSH.

"I'D BE A CHEF"

-TONY PLUSH

by GTrain on Jun 15, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

nothing, apparently

they ll keep him there forever. Maybe Mike Jacobs, though

by BurgherKing on Jun 15, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

You mean

That they’ll give us Gordon, but we have to take Jacobs as well?

Tough call.

by JRoth95 on Jun 15, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

It seems like...

…they like him enough to not trade him, but not enough to actually use him.

That’s a bad spot for a player to be in.

by Vlad on Jun 15, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

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