Non-waiver Trade Deadline 2010
by Scully on Jun 23, 2010 11:38 PM EDT
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The non-waiver trade deadline is fast approaching and it is now just a little more than a month away. Will the Bucs be active this season? And, if so, who will be dealt?
The Pirates, of course, have been active in years past but it seems that this year could be somewhat different as the team has a lot of youth in the starting lineup and several of the veterans brought in at the beginning of the year have failed to break into a starting role.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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I think wee get rid of...
Carrasco, Dotel, Doumit, and Maholm at the deadline. Church should be gone in a couple of days for Pearce to come back up.
ETHAN MARTIN!!!!
Am I the only one who likes have Bobby Crosby on the roster
he has been a nice little surprise this year
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"You Don't mess with the USA" Landon Donavan
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
yeah but let's see him extend it a bit before we
ink him to a 10-year deal. He’s looked good this week but was miserable before that — in fact he’s been one of the few Pirates I’ve outright despised this season. Despite the awful performance of the big league team I really like most of these guys. They’re lovable losers. Go Bucs.
Either Duke or Maholm should be traded by July 31st. Open up four spots in next year’s rotation for the group of Bryan Morris, Rudy Owens, Justin Wilson, Brad Lincoln, Charlie Morton, Hayden Penn, Jared Hughes, and maybe even Mike Crotta or someone else who steps up or is acquired through trade. The last three aren’t prospects, but who knows? They have solid numbers and maybe they can stick.
Could the Pirates add Harang and Correia or Westbrook to the rotation and compete? I doubt it, which makes the case for free agent arms much thinner. Find out which guys in AA and AAA can pitch at the top level next season, so the team knows what they have going into 2012.
Also, 30+ declining position players like Ryan Church and Iwamura should be nowhere near the roster, let alone getting starts. Bench players and spot starters should be Andy LaRoche, Jim Negrych, and similar players next year. The only possible exception is Crosby since he can “play” shortstop. Look into trading Doumit, as well, to see what Erik Kratz can do.
The team is farther away than I thought it would be coming into the year, and thus the tryout camp approach is best for the pitching rotation and remaining position players.
If they have to increase payroll for the player’s union, give the dough to Cutch in a big extension.
by Adam Reynolds on Jun 24, 2010 3:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Who on earth is going to trade for Zach Duke, especially now that he’s landed on the DL? Even if another teams thinks they can do something with the soft-tossing, corner-nibbling batting practice pitcher that is Duke, they’re going to offer next to nothing in return. See how long it takes before the lunatics hanging out over on Bobbo the Clown’s blog at the P-G start screaming “salary dump” if Duke doesn’t fetch at least two MLB-ready players and a top prospect, because that’s how every trade should turn out.
Most of the pitchers you reference are nowhere near ready for the majors or, in the cases of Morton and Penn, are probably never going to make it. You can’t just throw them into the fire and hope good things are going to happen. Does the name “Yoslan Herrera” ring a bell?
Agree that players like Church and Iwamura should probably not be near the roster, but you don’t want actual prospects sitting around on the bench instead of playing every day and developing their skills. Negrych probably isn’t a prospect at this point, but he could fill in the Delwyn Young “defensively-challenged professional hitter” slot on the roster.
Erik Kratz can be a 30-year-old career minor-league journeyman; that’s about it. Including this year, where he’s dominating as a career minor-leaguer, he still only has a lifetime .760 OPS. Trading Doumit and hoping that Kratz turns into Garrett Jones 2.0 is like sitting around your house hoping a Victoria’s Secret model is just going to stop by for pizza and sex. It’s fun to think about, but don’t hold your breath while your waiting; both your face and your balls will wind up being blue.
A career journey man CAN turn into a useful major leaguer.
Like you mentioned Garrett Jones. Chris Coste turned into a pretty decent ML catcher for a few years after bouncing around the minors for over a decade. Just because a player doesn’t break into the bigs at 23 doesn’t mean he can’t be of some value.
"So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded?! Yea. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets so a sample. There are 4 of us an you're retarded. Thats 25 percent." Southpark; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce
by gorillakilla34 on Jun 24, 2010 7:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t disagree with your basic premise, but trading your everyday starting catcher,who has a relatively team-friendly contract and replacing him with a minor-league journeyman doesn’t seem like the smart thing to do.
I think we all can admit that Ryan Doumit is a horrible catcher from a defensive standpoint; there’s little debate there. However, from an offensive standpoint, he gets on base, doesn’t strike out much, has some power and is a switch-hitter, which allows for flexibility in the lineup. For a team that struggles to score runs, I don’t think taking out one of the four everyday players that has an OPS+ of 100 (dead average) or better is a wise move.
Ryan Doumit may not be the long-term answer for the Pirates at catcher, but until Tony Sanchez is ready (and it appears his broken jaw will cost him the remainder of this year, pushing back his arrival date), I’d rather they keep Doumit and get steady production out of him than rolling the dice on a guy who’s never played one inning in the majors by the time he reached age 30.
Doumit’s the antithesis of “steady production”. Either he gets injured and misses most of the year (last season) or stinks up the joint (this season).
by Adam Reynolds on Jun 24, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
It'd be even nicer
if she brings pizza with her.
by BlindSquirrel on Jun 24, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s got a Triple-A FIP of 3.11, and with pretty good stats from what I can tell. Probably worth a shot some time down the line if he keeps it up.
by Adam Reynolds on Jun 24, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Be careful about using fielding-independent stats in the minors.
Hit rate at lower levels of competition doesn’t regress the same way that it does in the majors.
I'd like to trade
Doumit, LaRoche, Dotel, and Carrasco to the Mets for Ruben Tejeda and Fernando Martinez.
I would ideally like to get Reyes, but if they want to win this year, they won’t deal him. Tejeda has been playing 2B, but he would play SS for the Pirates, and F-Mart would be a very good reclamation project, especially since the Mets have soured on him, and he’s still just 21 years old.
Salary Dump! Salary Dump! Nutting is too cheap to pay real major-leaguers!
Seriously though, I’d like to drink tequila out of the navels of Brazilian supermodels, but that isn’t going to happen, much like this trade. Why would the Mets trade two highly-touted young players for a collection of crap the Pirates aren’t interested in any more? LaRoche has never shown that he can play 2B, and he seems to be a fragile little flower who would wilt in the spotlight of NY; if he can’t make it here, he ain’t going to cut it there. Carrasco? Meh. Dotel? He wants to close, they have K-Rod; that seems to be a bad mix for the Mets.
And going back to my question above: who is going to play catcher once we get rid of Doumit?
Those are three very poor options. They would all be well below Replacement Level, furthering weakening a already inept offense.
Maybe it’s me, but I don’t understand everyone’s hurry to get rid of Doumit and Maholm. It isn’t like we have anyone knocking on the door to replace them, and what we get in return isn’t going to be that good because, let’s face it, they’re not particularly good. You saw what we got for Jason Bay, and neither Doumit nor Maholm is of his level; we’re talking damaged AA pitching prospects and no-hit A shortstops in return, not the crown jewels of anyone’s organization.
Doumit is a whopping 0.4 or 0.5 wins above replacement this year, depending on if you use Fangraphs or Baseball-reference. He is not productive or helping us win games. Doumit wasn’t productive last year, either.
Unless I was absolutely certain Kratz would be well below replacement, I’d consider giving him a shot. Given his good defensive reputation and solid offensive stats, I’d say yes to a trial.
by Adam Reynolds on Jun 24, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that F-Mart is a good buy-low candidate...
…but I can’t see the Mets going for this, unfortunately.
Church has no value
and Crosby has minimal value
by 2010 will be the year on Jun 24, 2010 11:18 AM EDT reply actions
I wouldn't say Church has no value.
He has some since he’s a pretty good defensive outfielder. If somebody is looking for good defense and a good arm, Church is their guy.
Texas! Texas! Texas!
They’re our best trade partner this year.
Two young catchers they aren’t doing anything with, a loaded farm system, an MLB team on the verge of contending for a World Series but could probably use one or two more pieces.
Doesn’t have to be anything huge, I suggested on another board possibly shipping out Maholm (Before Texas got a good view of shellacking him) and Doumit for a considerable amount in return. Possibly Martin Perez, Hunter, and Teagarden?
Even a smaller deal they could probably benefit from. If they end up not dealing for a starter, they may just decide to stretch Feliz into the rotation and take their chances.
Maholm, Duke, Doumit, Dotel would all be nice fits in Texas, albeit for different prices and packages.
i agree
i would take Salty over Teagarden though has a lot more potential to me…any chance we can get Tanner Scheppers back? Dont think they would give up Perez maybe Hunter though
Maholm/ Doumit/ Dotel for Scheppers, Salty and 2 other low level Prospects
I dont think you can really expect that much though because Doumit just aint that good…But it seems like every year teams really overpay for veteran good experienced relievers…so will see what happens
There is
literally no way we could get Perez. We couldn’t get Perez for Maholm and Doumit alone, seriously.
As its been fleshed out here in the past, teams just don’t move top prospects anymore, except in rare situations. In fact, if we traded I would want to do it with the Yankees. Over the last two years they have given up Ian Kennedy, Jose Tabata, and Austin Jackson for rentals of Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte, along with Curtis Granderson. Thats three players they have moved out of NY who should be at least quality major league starters, if not more for (basically) Curtis Granderson.
That being said, they don’t look like buyers this year. Teams that do look like buyers are the Reds (need bullpen help, i.e. Dotel) and San Diego, who are the surprise leaders of the NL West and could use about any position player (minus 1st). People have also menetioned the Rangers, but personally I don’t like either of their young catchers, Salty or Teagarden.
If we geniunely want to try and keep Pedro at 3B (which I hope changes cause we get Rendon next year =p) Yonder Alonso intrigues me, and he may be available with Votto semi blocking his way and because he has lost some of his luster recently.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jun 24, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you think the Reds would trade Alonso
Within the division? I just can’t see it.
For me, the guy I’d really like to get (however impossible) is Dee Gordon. Love the speed and athleticism from that guy. Problem would be trading with the Dodgers, who can’t take on salary.
Salty is a bad bet.
Below-average glove, stagnating bat, questionable medical record. He even had psychological issues with throwing the ball back to the pitcher this season. And despite that, the Rangers still have him in their plans, so he’d cost a fair bit to get from them. No thanks.
And Scheppers? Pipe dream. They aren’t going to move him without getting a top-drawer talent back in return.
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