CHANGES
The Pirates have to consider changes, many of them, not next winter, not next week, NOW!
1. Laroach, can't hit and can barely field, taking up a roster spot
2. Milledge, can't field and can hit, can be traded
3. Church, can't hit and can field, taking up a roster spot
4. Duke, soft tossing lefty, far too eratic, needs a team that can hit around him.
5. DY, can't field or hit, taking up a roster spot
6. Donnelly, okay pitcher, but we have Moskos, bring the hard throwing lefty up for the same spot.
We have a 25 man roster, with these guys on it, we are playing with a 19 man roster. Milledge can be traded for someone of value, Duke can be traded for something, a contender might want Donnelly. LaRoach, Church and DY will bring us nothing and that is what we have with them, nothing. Pearce, Presley and Negrych can all hit, none of the 3 are considered prospects by the Pirates, so why not bring them up? The Pirates say they don't want to ruin players bringing them up too fast, how can you ruin someone that is not a prospect? If Negrych can't hit any better than LaRoach, I would be shocked. If Presley can be plugged into right field and he fails, what did we lose? Somewhere in this movement of players that I have suggested I would think there would be room for the Bucs to make a deal that would bring a 2 or 3 hole pitcher to this team, the whole starting staff is 4 and 5 hole pitchers.
While we are at it, bring the hitting coach up too, all the Pirates hit the same way, they roll their wrists over on every outside pitch and hit their little bouncers to the left side far to frequently, they have to be taught to go to the right side or up the middle with those pitches. They are already tinkering with Pedro when the minor league teams were not allowed to tinker with him when he advanced to different levels.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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Milledge shouldn't be moved.
The guy is putting together a somewhat solid season together. Yes, his defense has been suspect and he hasn’t shown hardly any power, but it looks like he’s finally putting it all together. His average is near .280 and he possesses some good speed, and he’s still young at 25-26. I would hate to see him go somewhere else and become a star, as hard as that is to imagine. He deserves to be an everyday player from here on out. But we all know that won’t happen b/c we have Ryan Church and…well, for whatever reason, JR apparently love him. I’m fine w/ moving any if not all of the others you mentioned, though.
I also wouldn’t get rid of Lastings, but how is he “putting it all together” when he’s not hitting for power and his defense is suspect?
Church and DY are the only two on the list I’d like to see go. I guess Donnelly, too. DY has value as a pinch hitter, but that’s a luxury we don’t need. I’d also exchange Jaramillo for Kratz,
So we trade guys and move guys up just for the hell of it...?
I don’t really see that being a solid solution to our problem.
If Milledge can’t field or hit, why can he “bring someone of value”?
LaRoche has struggled mightily, but there’s no reason to just cut him loose or trade him. He’s still young and to be honest we don’t really have anyone in AAA who he’s taking up a spot from.
Duke sucks, I agree, but no one wants him, and if they do want him, it’s my estimation we wouldn’t be getting anything more than a bag of balls for him, so why not hang onto him and hope he re-gains some value?
Church, DY, Donnelly, don’t care either way what you do with them. I fully disagree with the thought of promoting guys out of bordum though.
Boredum
“If Milledge can’t field or hit, why can he "bring someone of value"?”
First of all, no one is saying he can’t hit, read the post again! The reason he might bring something is because he can hit.
Look at the record, least amount of runs scored in baseball, that is not boredum, boredum is tell yourself that some of these guys will be something that they will not be.
LaRoach is worth almost nothing on the trade market, why should we keep him when we have guys that can hit in the system, guys that I have named?
Waiting on players that have had ample chances to prove what they can do is killing this team.
Ugh, really?
You’re looking at Minor League numbers. If you want to do that, let’s take a look at Andy LaRoche’s minor league numbers, or better yet, let’s send Andy down to AAA, watch him absolutely anihilate the same pitching Negrych and Presley are facing, and hear you beg them to call him back up.
Presley has like 3 games at AAA, it’s ridiculous to bring him up the Majors just because the MLB team is terrible. If he hits for a torrid pace at AAA to finish the year, sure, bring him up and see what he can do in September, anything before that is just short-sighted.
hey
we can trade for nyjer mogan
by the superduperstar!!!!!! on Jun 28, 2010 1:02 PM EDT reply actions
I’m sure if given the opportunity, Church, DY and Donnelly will all be moved at the deadline. the question is, if these are the worst players and the second to worst team in baseball….who is going to want them?
Milledge will not be traded.
As for Duke, if they can get something of modest value for him, I would trade him. If not, kepp him the rest of the year. It’s not like we have great options at AAA to replace him.
LaRoche is a solid defender who is working on playing multiple positions and has offensive upside. No need to get rid of him, he’ll be a solid utility player by next year. And Milledge has made some errors and some good play, all in all has been a below average defender this year. But if you look at their bodies of work beyond this season, both of the two can field, particularly LaRoche who can field really well. Not to mention both are still young with upside. Getting rid of either of them would be a complete waste.
Church and DY are wasting roster spots.
by thecheeseisblue on Jun 28, 2010 1:29 PM EDT reply actions
LaRoach
Why the love for LaRoach? he can’t hit, he has had almost a year to prove he can, am I the only one that is tired of watching those weak bouncers back to the left side of the infield? other teams bring players up from AA, the Pirates don’t even like to bring them up from AAA.
Could be the AAA and AA coaches and managers can get through to players better than their major league counterparts.
I could be wrong...
..but I don’t think there’s a huge list of players that skip AAA completely and have sustained success. I’m sure there are examples yes, (Leake didn’t play a day in the mionrs, Fowler I don’t think played any AAA), but that’s a huge deviation from the norm.
I wouldn’t say anyone here is really in love with Andy, especially given how he has played this season. Our only point is that you don’t just dump a guy like him for no reason. At the very worst, he’s an average defender at third and 26 years old. He’s only about 2 years older than Presley and Negrych. Even if the Pirates took your advice and promoted Presely and Negrych immediately, DY and Church would easily be the first two candidates to get shipped out. There just really isn’t a need to cut LaRoche, in fact, I’d been advocating that while in interleague play, LaRoche should be getting more at bats.
Really? Negrych has had 52 solid at bats with Indianapols, but he also had 135 mediocre at bats with Altoona this year. I think he’ll be up at some point, but there’s no harm in wanting to see more.
Then the other plan is to trade one of the few players to hit well the past 2 months, to put in someone only three months younger in a starting role who stunk at A-ball last year? What could go wrong?
At least Garrett Jones was decent in AAA the year before his breakout. Presley’s odds are even shorter of producing right away because of his own history (which, again, basically consists of A ball struggles) Again, Presley has shown progress and might end up on a major league roster someday, but I think we need to see more in the minor leagues here as well.
solid atbats
“Really? Negrych has had 52 solid at bats with Indianapols”
That is about 42 more than LaRoach has had in the last 2 months.
small sample sizes can make anyones argument look legit.
by ryebr3ad on Jun 28, 2010 6:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Let's let the AAA guys who just arrived there
prove it for at least 3 months before they are brought up. That’s the way it should be done.
Not sure why you stopped at 6?
They’re looking at LaRoche as the future utility infielder. I’m OK with that because to this day he’s been the only MLB value we got in trade for Bay.
Milledge is in the same boat as reserve OF. Don’t know if he’ll ever help this team, but no harm in trying. He’s signed for at least another year.
Church, was a waste of money from the moment they signed him. I don’t understand why the Pirates continue signing MLB garbage FA’s when they could just as easily tryout minor leaguers for less. Complete waste for a rebuilding team. What about Crosby? He falls here too. They need to decide whether to keep cedeno or crosby, then cycle in IF from the farm, to try ’em out for next year.
I think everyone agrees that if Duke could bring anything we should trade him, but what’s he really worth? Same goes for DY. And Doumit. If they can’t get fair value, they need to keep them and try again next year.
I think its time to clean out that whole BP (I mean the vets – Dotel, Donnelly, Carrasco and Lopez) there’s more trade value there than anywhere on the roster.
Next up, what about the second half of the season? Why not tryout some prospects (or at least those most deserving) at the MiLB level in spots where the Bucs need help? We need all the help we can get, so let’s get some players up here and give them a shot. Let’s infuse some excitement back into a team that’s bound to lose another 60 games anyway. I think many of us would forget the losses if the team had something exciting going on, but right now they don’t – the caveat is we do, but they’re all young up and comers, so lets see more of them.
MiLB players who’ve earned a call uP; Steve Pearce, Argeniz Diaz, Eric Kratz, Hayden Penn, Wifredo Ledezma. Can’t add Presley here, but if he keeps hitting should see an august call up.
Players deserving a promotion: Michael Dubee, Brock Holt, Nathan Adcock. I left a lot of players off this list. Mostly these are players that look like they’re being held up within the organization.
It’s my hope the Bucs will trade away MLB players for Minor leaguers and open up some spots on the roster for some of the guys I’ve mentioned. One thing is for sure, the bucs are no more than 2 years away from .500 if not contending in the division. All you have to do is look at the depth in AAA and AA to see that!
by Pensburgh Pirates on Jun 28, 2010 8:39 PM EDT reply actions
My only comment is, regarding Negrych, Negrych was bored out of his mind in Altoona and wasn’t an everyday player (he just DH’d against the AL affiliates mostly), and that may well have affected his performance this year.
I’m not saying it’s cool to not try as hard because you’re discouraged, but it does happen. Look up Hanley Ramirez’s stats in the EL in 2004/2005. Now… I AM NOT IN ANY WAY SAYING JIM NEGRYCH IS LIKE HANLEY RAMIREZ. At all. Just to be clear.
But I DID see Hanley play a bit when he was at AA, and it was very, very obvious the man was listless, bored, and considered AA ball beneath him. Look up his stat lines. In 2005 he sucked in AA ball. In 2006 he was very good in the major leagues.
It’s the EXCEPTION—the rule is that a guy pretty much is what his stats say he is, and the rule usually holds—but once in a while I think a guy’s performance can flag if he’s losing interest or getting discouraged. This COULD be the case with Negrych.
I have thought for a while, and continue to think, that Negrych could be a contributor as a bench player that hits left-handed, can hit .280/.340, and can pretend to play multiple positions to spot days off. To that end I would be challenging him with everyday play all over the field at Indianapolis and seeing what I get.
No value in trading Milledge right now. What would he bring in return as a three time loser with three different organizations? He might not ever be the star he was projected to be, but he hits the ball well to the gaps and has been our best clutch hitter thusfar. He swings and misses too often, but I can live with that because his plate discipline seems to be adequate. I wouldn’t be surprised if Milledge hits .280/12hr/70rbi with 35-40 doubles or so next season (provided the Pirates don’t inexplicably rest him every other day in favor of Raul Ibanez or an unretired Ken Griffey Jr or whatever ever past-his-prime player they can sign to a contract). He’s not that bad of a player really and might be on the brink of breaking out.
i disagree with your list
I understand that DY needs to be DFA’d but not at this time while walker and crosby are down. Church is taking up a roster spot, but i think we should keep him till Pearce returns. Milledge is actually doing good in the hitting department and average in the field. Donnely i agree with but i think we keep him till Moskos is ready or until we get someone better for the spot. And for the most part you are right about Laroche except he is a good guy for the utility rule. I personally think we should keep Duke until the end of the year and if we can get something from him in trade then do it otherwise DFA during the 2011 spring training
WiLL

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