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Pirates Option Jason Jaramillo, Justin Thomas

Pittsburgh Pirates' Jason Jaramillo looks up at the scoreboard after stricking out by Cincinnati Reds relief pitcher Mike Lincoln in the ninth inning of a baseball game, Thursday, May 27, 2010, in Cincinnati. Cincinnati won 8-2. (AP Photo/Al Behrman)

More photos » Al Behrman - AP

3 months ago: Pittsburgh Pirates' Jason Jaramillo looks up at the scoreboard after stricking out by Cincinnati Reds relief pitcher Mike Lincoln in the ninth inning of a baseball game, Thursday, May 27, 2010, in Cincinnati. Cincinnati won 8-2. (AP Photo/Al Behrman)

-P- The Pirates have demoted Jason Jaramillo and Justin Thomas to Indianapolis. Thomas's roster spot will probably go to Zach Duke, who should soon return from his rehab assignment. I can't imagine the Pirates will go without a second catcher behind Ryan Doumit, given how awful Doumit has been behind the plate, so I'm guessing the Jaramillo demotion is an excuse to call up Erik Kratz, who hit well in Indianapolis last year and has been downright excellent this year, hitting .296/.394/.554. At 30, Kratz obviously isn't a high-upside player, but there's no reason he can't be a good backup for the next few years.

-P- The Bucs headed into the All-Star break with yet another loss today, this one with Octavio Dotel blowing another save. You've probably seen this article by Dejan Kovacevic about the Pirates' first-half bests and worsts. I'm not really sure what the graphic is about, but I assume he had little to do with that, and the article is good. 

I go through phases in most years that I suspect are pretty common. In April, I'm watching almost every game really intensely, and I worry about John Russell's tactical decisions and these sorts of things. By the time the draft rolls around, I'm still watching, but I'm not sweating the details of the games themselves nearly as much - it doesn't really seem helpful to do so. And so, while it annoys me to see Ryan Church's name in the lineup nine times a week, I'm probably more inclined to shrug my shoulders than to get all upset about it (even though it is, in fact, senseless, and even if Neal Huntington's explanation today about potentially retaining Church next year just makes things worse). For a team in the Pirates' position, your vision will probably be skewed if you look too carefully at the day-to-day results. The biggest stories this year have been the draft and the development of prospects.

Unfortunately, even those stories haven't come out well. The draft has a chance to be terrific if the Pirates sign their first two picks and a few others, but the news out of the minors has mostly been miserable, with one injury after another. There have been good stories, like the emergences of Bryan Morris and Neil Walker as players who can really help them, but, Tony Sanchez, Starling Marte, Quinton Miller, Victor Black, Brock Holt, Brett Lorin... the list of players who've been on the minor league DL has been enormous.

There's also the fact that the major league performance, while not nearly as important as most people probably think it is, does count for something. Not the record, which we knew was going to be bad, but the failures of Charlie Morton, Andy LaRoche and Jeff Clement to turn into real major leaguers. While these guys were unlikely to be star performers on the next good Pirates team, leaps forward really would have helped a lot, both now and in the future. Kovacevic's choice of Jeff Karstens as the Pirates' most valuable player is telling, not so much in that he's been the best player (and Kovacevic isn't arguing that anyway), but because, if the year had gone well, the Bucs wouldn't really have needed a no-upside guy like Karstens in the first place. The Pirates' front office actually has acquired several guys (Evan Meek, Ross Ohlendorf, Garrett Jones and Joel Hanrahan) through big-league transactions who have already contributed in the majors, and many fans had unreasonable expectations for the Pirates' trades to begin with, but obviously, as a group the Pirates' big-leaguers have been disappointing.

-P- John Perrotto at Baseball Prospectus writes (subscriber only) that he's heard the Pirates could deal Octavio Dotel to the Marlins straight up for Leo Nunez. I don't really know why the Marlins would do that, since Nunez is a decade younger and arguably might be better than Dotel anyway. It would be an interesting trade, though - Nunez, you'll recall, was once a Pirates prospect, but Dave Littlefield dealt him for a week's worth of Benito Santiago. Given that the Pirates effectively swapped out Matt Capps for Dotel, I guess going from Capps to Nunez would be a step forward - Nunez has an extra year of arbitration eligibility. 

-P- Not Pirates-related, but: Jeff Bagwell has been named the Astros' new hitting coach, reminding us that, while the Bucs may be a disaster, at least we have Houston. Whenever the Astros have a problem, their solution is to call on a veteran. The hold Bagwell and Craig Biggio have had over the franchise is intense - remember Biggio's embarrassing 3,000-hit legacy tour at the end of his career, when he couldn't play anymore? Maybe Bagwell turns out to be a great coach - maybe Tommy Manzella starts doing the wide-legged Bagwell crouch stance until his thighs look like tree trunks, and suddenly starts hitting 30 homers a year - but I highly doubt it. This looks like a typical Astros decision - shortsighted and profoundly dull-minded. I'm sure the talk radio crowd will love it.

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Busted investment: Iwamura’s $4.85 million + Ramon Vazquez’s $2 million + $3.3 million sent to Seattle for Cedeno, Clement and three modestly promising Class A prospects = Matt Morris’ salary.

Not really sure the comparison he’s trying to make there. Is he trying to say that two bad moves and one mildly good one are somehow equal to Matt Morris? Cause I don’t understand, or think there’s a valid comparison to be made here.

by thecheeseisblue on Jul 11, 2010 6:18 PM EDT reply actions  

I think...

he’s trying to say there are multiple ways to throw away $10M. and he showed two.

by Thunder on Jul 11, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did think that part was pretty silly, since obviously you’d take Clement, Adcock and Lorin over Matt Morris any day of the week. Also, it’s not at all uncommon to be able to pick out a handful of signings a team made that cost $10 million and didn’t pan out; that’s even the case for a small market team. That doesn’t make them nearly as dumb as the Morris move was.

by Charlie on Jul 11, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

If we're going to account for everything...

…it’s also worth noting that bringing in Morris also cost us Rajai Davis. Davis isn’t a great player, and I doubt he would’ve had the opportunity to do much here if he remained, but he did put up 5.0 WAR over the last four seasons and that represents additional value lost in the trade.

by Vlad on Jul 12, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

That also means...

there is a 40 man roster move coming at the end of the week. The 40 man roster is full. Hart and Veal could be put on the 60 day DL. Kratz is the likely callup according to Biertempful.

by Thunder on Jul 11, 2010 6:19 PM EDT reply actions  

*I’d take Leo Nunez for Dotel easily if that’s the only thing on the table, even though I might prefer prospects depending on which ones (if possible).

Nunez will be more expensive in arbitration than what Dotel will make, but it’s not my money, and it’s not like boatloads of money are going to the ML payroll in the first place.

*The Church 2011 retention idea is not good, but NH has also said other silly things that didn’t end up happening, so I don’t put too much into it yet. Hopefully that’s not a preview of an off-season consisting of squeaking pennies together, and another push for 95-100 losses next year.

*Kovacevic’s piece is hard to read. Several points were annoying:

1. What’s with the Jeff Karstens love? He’s sub-replacement level, he goes like 4 innings a game, and he’s awful. A couple of lucky wins doesn’t change the reality.

2. The Pirates had a winning record without Morton pitching? That’s a ridiculous and non-revealing stat. What was the run support in Morton’s games, 2 per contest? Morton was bad, but that makes it sound like everything was dandy if only he didn’t pitch, which is the reading equivalent of fingernails on the chalkboard.

3. The Pirates didn’t figure out Walker was an everyday player until May? Well, no kidding. His hitting numbers before this year screamed “utility player”. Luckily, he was able to adjust in 2010, and after less than 2 months of hitting well, which seems like a proper time, they kept him in the lineup in Pittsburgh. I don’t see anything wrong with that, and his blurb just comes across as a needless comment.

There are probably other bad points, but that’s enough for now.

by Adam Reynolds on Jul 11, 2010 7:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, there’s no way the Pirates are retaining Church.

by Charlie on Jul 11, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

a lesson learned from the capps mess

maybe neal feels that it will raise or at least keep churchs value constant. remember when the rumor came out several weeks before capps got dfa’ed. then neal tried to trade him, and no one wanted him. why pay when you can get him for free.btw apparently they must feel he has some value. the general feeling at that time was capps sucked, just like church. if neal says we may cut church nobody will give us anything.

by karreemofwheat on Jul 11, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

Before july 31st, I generally consider anything said by NH about a veteran to be fluff.

by johnnycuff on Jul 11, 2010 8:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I wouldn't necessarily hate him as a NRI.

But that’s probably about as far as I’d go.

by Vlad on Jul 12, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

And he had the staff figuring out that Dana Eveland wasn’t worth keeping around as a good evaluation. Somehow trading a prospect away for him and then figuring out he was garbage was a success while taking a few months to find out if a guy who had spent his entire career as a catcher or 3B could play 2B was a failure. I just didn’t get that.

by IAPiratesFan on Jul 11, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s one of the other bad points I alluded to.

by Adam Reynolds on Jul 12, 2010 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Jeff Locke...

just tweeted Tim at Bucco Fans that he’s promoted. Good news! Now we need to move Owens and Wilson.

http://twitter.com/buccofans

by Slick1 on Jul 11, 2010 7:43 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

it's about damn time

Locke has certainly earned it!

I don’t think Owens or Wilson will be promoted. More likely Kyle Stark will considerably reduce Brian Morris workload for the year. Morris has pitched almost 25 more innings this season that last year.

by BadAndy on Jul 11, 2010 8:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Wilson looks ready to me...

Owens can’t be too far behind either. I do agree that they will start limiting Morris though.

by Slick1 on Jul 11, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'd love to see Owens/Wilson pitch at Indy ASAP

Maybe the fact that Penn being sold to a Japanese team will make that promotion possible.

by BadAndy on Jul 11, 2010 8:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

…you know, you’re right. That would be means for a promotion. I’m thinking Owens first?

by ryebr3ad on Jul 11, 2010 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

My money is on Wilson...

I think Owens is still working on a 2 seamer from what I’ve read. Wilson is striking out batters and has improved his command. He looks the most ready to me.

by Slick1 on Jul 11, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

for comparison's sake

Owens:

17 starts 8-3 3.00 99 IP 7.7 H/9 1.7 BB/9 7.4 K/9 1.05 WHIP

Wilson:

17 starts 7-4 2.85 91.2 IP 91.2 IP 6.7 H/9 3.6 BB/9 8.4 K/9 1.15 WHIP

It’s really hard to tell who will get promoted 1st but whoever does will have the inside track to be promoted next June along with Morris.

by BadAndy on Jul 11, 2010 9:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

From Dejan: “Does anyone really want to see how the second half of the Pirates’ 2010 season plays out?”

Actually, I do. The Pirates should easily top 100 losses, but the lineup is more interesting than it has been in some time. There’s at least a semi-intriguing player at every spot except shortstop (I may be the last Doumit fan). I’m also glad to see Kratz get a shot; he should have been up a month ago.

I agree with Adam about Dejan’s Neal Walker note. Walker did little in the minors and it’s way too early to assume he is an established major leaguer. Hope what we’ve seen is real, but he could easily regress to his old ways and be in Indianapolis this time next year.

by bolton on Jul 11, 2010 7:44 PM EDT reply actions  

"but the lineup is more interesting than it has been in some time."

Who cares? RESULTS. That’s what counts. RESULTS. If the Pirates were in 3rd or 4th place and making real progress, I’d say, “OK, the Pirates are at least getting better.” But they’re not. They’re 28 games below .500. On track to lose 103 games. They are no better than when Huntingtown, Coonelly and Russell took over. The problem is Bob Nutting. For the Pirates to improve, Pittsburgh absolutely MUST have new ownership. All the arm-chair analysts with all their blah blah blah about this player and that player doesn’t obscure the reality that Pittsburgh ISN’T improving as a baseball team. After all the talk, that’s all that matters. And Nutting CANNOT deliver on that outcome. Simple logic. Nutting MUST sell. We MUST get an ownership that can put a competitive team on the field. End of story.

by dougalmac on Jul 11, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude...

can you think of another way, one that DOESN’T involve the team being sold?


…‘cause, um, that ain’t gonna happen.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 11, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of COURSE. We need new OWNERSHIP. Because Bob Nutting hasn’t turned us from a PERENNIAL loser into a winner in his two years OF being majority owner. Mark Cuban would be a much better CHOICE, because, based on his record of ownership in baseball, he would CLEARLY have bought every free agent in THOSE two years, while simultaneously buying the Tampa Bay Rays to turn the TEAM into a winner. Building through free agency ALWAYS works, that’s why all other small market teams do it, AND not just the Yankees.

//SARCASM

by thecheeseisblue on Jul 11, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Heh...
//SARCASM

Doesn’t exactly take Sherlock Holmes to figure that out!

by Slick1 on Jul 11, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey -

the way some people are getting butthurt around here lately by comments that are (pretty obviously) sarcastic, I don’t blame TCIB.

[/non-sarcasm]

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 11, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

My butt has been hurting for the past ten years. I find your comment highly offensive.

by ryebr3ad on Jul 11, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

See?

I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not…

…heh.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 11, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

my favourite

is the capped words… hilarious!
Rec’d

by BlindSquirrel on Jul 11, 2010 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

We are expecting to see results in the second half. Since a few of our core players are now in the bigs, it will be interesting to see how the second half plays out. Will we fix our run differential (doubtful, since the staff still sucks)? Will we score more runs (could happen, since our offense is starting to pick up)?

Dude, no kidding the team sucks. Again, you point out the obvious like we don’t know it. If this were the last season in baseball, we’d have a problem. Obviously, it isn’t.

I just love it when people say the team as a whole is no better now than it was back then. You do realize Brian Bixler was a top prospect back in 2007, correct? You’re rather short sighted if you don’t think the team is improving.

by ryebr3ad on Jul 11, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Very well put, ryebr3ad

"I choose to gamble with my life

Twice the risk, four times the prize

Nothing knocks me over"

by lighthouse913 on Jul 11, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

From Dejan: "Does anyone really want to see how the second half of the Pirates’ 2010 season plays out?"

This is one situation where the sequel almost has to be better than the original.

by Adam Reynolds on Jul 12, 2010 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Insanity is doing the same thing you always did and expecting different results.

Blah blah blah, this player shoulda and this player coulda and analysis and gum chompin’. Bottom line is the Pirates suck, and until Nutting sells the team, and the Three Stooges (Huntington, Coonellly, and Russell) hit the road this team will continue to suck. For a life-long Pirates fan, this is purgatory. We’re 28 games below .500, and on track for 103 losses. IT AIN’T WORKING FOLKS. Until Nutting sells, nothing will change. Face facts. Nutting is not capable of putting a contending baseball team on the field. Huntington and Coonelly have sold the Pirates down the river. And Russell is a joke as a manager. Until the people of Pittsburgh demand Nutting sells the Pirates, nothing will change. That’s the big key factor here. NUTTING MUST SELL. We need an owner who understands the business of MLB and who is absolutely dedicated to resurrecting the Pirates. And that means being willing to pay the best possible people in MLB to run the team, and getting players who are capable and who want to win and won’t make excuses, but will go out and do it.

by dougalmac on Jul 11, 2010 7:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Personally, I can't wait until Nutting sells the team

When the new owner comes in and the Pirates’ payroll will be right up there with the Yankees and Red Sox and Cubs and the Pirates will instantly be as good as all those teams because then they’ll be able to go right out and sign all the best free agents to high priced contracts.

by Schide on Jul 11, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

is that sarcasm Schide?

The only way the Pirates payroll will be “up there” with the Yanks and Sox is if a salary cap is implement.

And the players union sure as hell do NOT want that implemented

by BadAndy on Jul 11, 2010 8:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Definite sarcasm.

Cocktails was right. Schide forgot to add the “//SARCASM” at the end.

by Slick1 on Jul 11, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now he’s going to tell me about how I’m trying to stop him from telling us all the truth.

by thecheeseisblue on Jul 11, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Idiocy is stubbornly sticking with an ideology that hasn't even been proven to work

…such as, you know, screaming ad nasuem for a team’s owner to sell.

Please tell me you want Mario LeMieux to buy the team, since the Pirates are doing the same thing now that the Pens did a few years back.

I mean, seriously. What would you suggest we do to fix the team? Give us good, hard ideas of what you would do. Who would you trade, and for whom? Who would you draft? Who would you sign in free agency? You have all the answers, bub? Enlighten us!

Oh, and you can’t use player analysis either, since it’s apparently a bunch of gibberish? Then again, most people tend to throw aside that which they don’t understand…another trait of stubbornness, if you will.

by ryebr3ad on Jul 11, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

He probably

wants to bring Dave Littlefield back

"I choose to gamble with my life

Twice the risk, four times the prize

Nothing knocks me over"

by lighthouse913 on Jul 11, 2010 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude, nothing gets the women wet like 73 wins and a number 13 draft pick each and every season.

by ryebr3ad on Jul 11, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Doug's ability to ignore cognitive dissonance really is impressive.

He talks in one sentence about how doing the same thing will lead to the same results, and then two sentences later has seamlessly transitioned into a complaint about the new management team and their new methods.

I wonder whether he knows that McClatchy was majority owner until 2007? If he didn’t, that would explain a lot…

by Vlad on Jul 12, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I love this, this is great

So what system will the new owner use to make the team competitive overnight? Will he just grab $300 million from his pocket and buy the Yankees? Will he tell Paul Maholm to be an ace and it will magically be so? Will he put on his scary face and cause the full development of Tabata/Cutch/Alvarez to happen overnight?

Yes, the Bucs are still losing, and yes, Nutting/Huntington are in charge, but that doesn’t mean that they’re plan is bad (that’s not to say that it could potentially not work)…but it’s a solid plan and probably the only plan for a small-market, low-budget team like the Pirates. Sure beats signing washed-up old fogies who were once mid-level players or praying for an enormous miracle.

Just this: what would expect the hypothetical new management team to do differently that would suddenly turn around what had become a wasteland of a franchise?

Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis

by CTapps on Jul 12, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just to Clarify...

Do you think Nutting needs to seel the team??? Wasn’t quite clear.

by biglar33 on Jul 12, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry, Should be sell. Now I’m the idiot.

by biglar33 on Jul 12, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will copy this over from a reply I just made...

Since Tabata’s recall on June 9th…Milledge has a .995 OPS in 75 PA. Tabata .653 in 130 PA (and hitting into quite a bit of bad luck). Church .515 OPS in 61 PA and Young .526 in 32 PA. The only ones walking more frequently than Tabata (9.3 PA per walk) are Cutch (9.2) and Pearce (5.3). And Pearce only has 38 PA. Even Milledge is 11.2 PA per walk…Church is at 16.7…Young 20.5. God (Jones) is only at 11.1.

Church doesn’t deserve to be playing in front of anybody right now…other than maybe fans in Indianapolis or Altoona. One could argue that over the last month…Milledge should be playing ahead of Jones… .301/.344/.440 for a .784 OPS for Jones…. .358/.413/.582 for Milledge. Jones has 3 HR and 17 RBI in that month…Milledge 3 HR and 10 RBI in about 50 less plate appearances.

And yes, Vlad…I know you can’t pick and choose time periods. But since Tabata was called up on June 9th, I think it is entirely fair and reasonable to take a look at what all the OF/1B types have put up since that time. It’s comparing apples to apples.

by Thunder on Jul 11, 2010 8:17 PM EDT reply actions  

The walk rates...

are for the entire season for each of the players. The rest of the stats are June 9th (Tabata’s callup date) through today’s game.

by Thunder on Jul 11, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

For the record...

…I think that’s a perfectly fine sample, given the circumstances.

by Vlad on Jul 12, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Here comes Morris in the Futures Game

1 pitch, 1 GB out…93 mph. Probably his only batter, but at least he got into the game.

by bolton on Jul 11, 2010 8:20 PM EDT reply actions  

that player he got out

was his team mate Gorkys.

"I choose to gamble with my life

Twice the risk, four times the prize

Nothing knocks me over"

by lighthouse913 on Jul 11, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Speaking of Gorky's...

he’s had a couple nice plays on defense today.

by Slick1 on Jul 11, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

And...

has gone his usual 0-3 with the bat.

by Thunder on Jul 11, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

On the brightside...

we could bring him to Pittsburgh right now, cut Church and platoon him with Milledge. Wouldn’t lose any offense and probably gain on defense.

by Slick1 on Jul 11, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Saw that good running catch he made on the ball hit by Morrison. Seemed to get a good jump.

by bolton on Jul 11, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Figures...

I was watching the entire game and just stepped out to get my laundry after Shelby Miller was pulled. Figures that would be Morris. Like you said, probably his only batter.

by Slick1 on Jul 11, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nonsense:
Until this ownership and front office establishes a commitment to funding payroll, and until the baseball operations staff establishes an ability to execute personnel moves at the major-league level, the promise of those youngsters might mean little.

Why is it nonsense?

1) At this time there is no rational reason to dramatically increase the major league payroll. The players possessing the talent that would most help the Pirates would cost too much to bring in as free agents. What would it cost to sign Prince Fielder to his next contract? About $20M per year. Will Fielder instantly turn the team into a contender? No. Will his salary eliminate additional free agent acquisitions? Probably. Will it make retaining the Pirates’ developing stars more difficult when the time comes to sign them to big contracts? Probably.

If the Pirates need to spend a lot of money in any player acquisition area, that place would be in the Draft and in the International Free Agent Market.

2) I assume executing “personnel moves at the major-league level” means making trades and signing free agents. But the Pirates currently have nothing they would want to trade away but their ill-advised veteran acquisitions of the past off-season. The mistake was to expect much from these veterans. Pirate fans have had a decade to consider the value these veterans provide in most instances. To my mind it’s time to cut bait with everyone but Carrasco and Crosby, both of whom are useful spare parts, unlike the useless spare parts that Huntington and the team feels the need to acquire.

As painful as it may be, winning or losing now is meaningful only insofar as it determines the team’s slot in the upcoming Draft. The importance of the current season consists only in the arrival of the first prospects cohort. The relevant compound question to ask about this year’s team:

Is the organization maximizing the talent it acquires through the Draft and International Free Agent market and is it maximizing the development of the talented youngsters already in the system?

The most disturbing facts of the past year in Pirates’ baseball:

1) The surprise which greeted Neil Walker’s improvement.

2) Spending good time and money on veterans.

3) The Church-Milledge fiasco.

Steve Z

by steve_z on Jul 11, 2010 8:39 PM EDT reply actions  

you crazy Americans

and answering questions you asked yourself. The more irksome thing is that I’ve seem some Australian politicians doing it as well – and you just know that they’re only doing it to try and save embarrassing questions being asked of them.

by BlindSquirrel on Jul 11, 2010 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s disturbing that Neil Walker’s improvement was a surprise? He hit .260 in AAA last year with a .311 on base percentage. At minimum, he has to be a mild surprise.

by Adam Reynolds on Jul 11, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

And I was more bullish on Walker even before this season than burying him in the 20s on prospect lists.

by Adam Reynolds on Jul 11, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was his second half improvement at the plate that counts

His capacity to move to a new position should have surprised no one as well.

I always thought Walker could hit. He just needed learn the hitter’s version of strike zone command.

Steve Z

by steve_z on Jul 12, 2010 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

You haven't explained...

…why it’s “disturbing” for people to have not expected that Walker would improve as much as he did.

by Vlad on Jul 12, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's disturbing that t eam officials failed to expect this

The talent was there. Defensively, it is likely Walker could perform adequately at every position but CF, SS and P. He quickly became the best defensive thirdbaseman in the organization after his move from catcher. That was evidence the team had that Walker to master a new position and had the athleticism to play in the field.

The belief was that Walker would not hit enough to play everyday in the majors. Yet the key knock against him as a hitter was his inability to control the strike zone. He began to make strides in that matter late last year. I doubt that Walker will ever hit 30 home runs. But like Milledge, he should be good for 15 to 20 home runs along with a lot of doubles. Both ought to hit above .300 in the majors. Both just need to refine their swings and approach to fit their talents.

If the talent is there, one should not be surprised when it blossoms.

Steve Z

by steve_z on Jul 12, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sure they were open to the possiblity of him defeloping...

…but I don’t see why that should’ve been the default assumption heading into the year, as you seem to be claiming.

There are lots of players with talent. Some make it, and some don’t. And some of the ones who don’t make it have, at various points in their careers, had a good month or two.

by Vlad on Jul 12, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Amusingly enough

If the front office does assume that a prospect has a chance to improve (Clement, Moss, etc) and doesn’t they are also vilified for that.

Picking and choosing is fun!

http://bleedblackandgold.com/

by Say Hey Johnny Ray on Jul 12, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never criticized the FO for giving a young player a chance to show his stuff

Players like Clement and Moss and Laroche and etc. At this time that’s just what the FO should be doing.

Steve Z

by steve_z on Jul 12, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't claim that Walker's strides this year were certain

I’m only claiming that they should not have surprised the FO.

Walker did not simply put together a few good months last year. He provided evidence that he mastered or was beginning to master a skill.

Steve Z

by steve_z on Jul 12, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

And what was that evidence?

He was bad in April and July, good in May and August, and hurt in June. He showed continued skill growth in terms of power, but other than that, it was a pretty grim offensive season, including a .306 OBP.

What signs were there for the front office to see?

by Vlad on Jul 12, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know, I actually don’t want them to add any age 30+ position players. Unless they are well above average, that’s when they usually decline (and a lot of them fall off fast).

Pitchers tend to go at a much older age, so I’d be fine with some offseason pitching acquisitions (starting and relief).

by Adam Reynolds on Jul 11, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Man...

Scheppers just 101 mph on the gun. I think I regret not getting him more than Sano though I don’t fault the front office for too much for that one given the information available at the time.

by Slick1 on Jul 11, 2010 9:03 PM EDT reply actions  

I’d take Sano by far over Scheppers. He’s already tearing up the GCL. That’s going to be a lot more painful to watch than a guy whose arm will fall off any day.

by Adam Reynolds on Jul 12, 2010 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

“Tony Sanchez, Starling Marte, Quinton Miller, Victor Black, Brock Holt, Brett Lorin… the list of players who’ve been on the minor league DL has been enormous.”

… just out of curiosity, is this number really “enormous?” how many guys end up on other franchises’ minor league DLs every year?

by Captain Easychord on Jul 11, 2010 10:09 PM EDT reply actions  

I couldn’t give you a figure, but yeah, the number of important prospects who’ve had serious injuries this year is much larger than is normal.

by Charlie on Jul 11, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its not so much the number

It’s

A. That the guys we’re talking about are many of our best prospects, not just Joe Bus-league

B. They are major injuries…hand and shoulder surgerys, broken jaw. These guys are missing major amounts of development time, not just nursing strained hammys etc

RIP NATE. RIP TONY PLUSH.

"I'D BE A CHEF"

-TONY PLUSH

by GTrain on Jul 11, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jaramillo down = Doumit Trade SOON

The only thing that makes sense is they want to get Jaramillo ready for every day duty in the major leagues by playing every day. This can only be because they want to be ready to trade Doumit at the deadline. This is a great idea because Doumit has regressed. He’s played every day and only has 12 RBIS!!! This is amazing for someone who was supposed to be middle of the line up kind of hitter. After Doumit is traded, we’ll see a platoon of Jaramillo and Kratz, followed by Sanchez next year as starter.

by BucsFaninCA on Jul 12, 2010 11:03 AM EDT reply actions  

Actually

I think Jaramillo has just played alot worse than expected even for a back up and Kratz has put up good numbers. I don’t know if its a indicator Doumit is gone.

Doumit hasn’t played that well so what are we going to get for him unless he’s in a package deal.

by eyeofhorus777 on Jul 12, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

1) Jaramillo’s down because he’s been awful.
2) Doumit has 31 RBIs, not 12.
3) Sanchez is at least two years away, and that’s if he can handle Double-A or Triple-A.

by bolton on Jul 12, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

2 is a good point.

Doumit had 12 RBI in March/April alone.

by Vlad on Jul 12, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

If they were planning on trading Doumit...

…sending down Jaramillo would be dumb, insofar as they’d have to wait 15 days to bring him back up.

I think it’s more likely that they just wanted to give Kratz a look because Jaramillo hasn’t been very productive. Remember, they very nearly picked Kratz over Jaramillo coming out of spring training, and probably would’ve done so if not for 40-man roster considerations.

by Vlad on Jul 12, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

From Dejan: "Does anyone really want to see how the second half of the Pirates’ 2010 season plays out?"

One good reason for not getting PG+, if you want Pirate bashing just visit Smizek, he will give it to you for free.

by leadoff on Jul 12, 2010 2:00 PM EDT reply actions  

I want to see how the second half plays out

1. Will Pedro be able to lower his K rate, increase his OBP and Avg while still hitting for power?
2. When will we end the Church experiment and let Milledge play every day? Come on he has started to hit for power and has outplayed GFJ for a whole month.
3. Will Cutch start hitting for more power? Where will he end up in the lineup?
4. Will Tabata continue to improve?
5. WIll Lincoln take his 2 out of last 3 quality starts and catch some momentum? Will his change improve?
6. Will Zach Duke come back and be anything approaching average?

by eyeofhorus777 on Jul 12, 2010 3:21 PM EDT reply actions  

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