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Pirates Stop Idiotic Outfield Platoon, Give Lastings Milledge Starting Job

John Russell finally gives in:

Manager John Russell said Thursday night, after the team's hourlong post-break workout at PNC Park, that Milledge's recent performance has convinced him to stop what had become a conspicuously imbalanced platoon with Ryan Church: Milledge is batting .276, Church .186.

"Lastings has earned it," Russell said. "It's not about Church. It's about what Lastings has been able to show, how he's handled it, and that he looks like he's ready."

Finally. Church has had 19 at bats since June 28; Milledge has had 28. It's actually kind of amazing how inconspicuous Church was until a couple weeks ago, given how badly he was playing. I suppose a decent April (Church had an OPS of .732) and the presence of Akinori Iwamura really paper over quite a lot. Since April, Church had OPSes of .519 in May and .293 (!) in June before finally recording a few hits this month. It's pretty amazing it took the Pirates this long to bench him (assuming the benching lasts), but Wilbur has a pretty good theory on what happened:

I've come to the conclusion that one problem the Pirates are facing is a FO that prioritizes managing assets over winning. Not many teams would put up with Church's performance. He's at the age where merely decent hitters often fall off a cliff, so it's not like you can keep pointing to his career BA (which isn't exactly fabulous anyway) as if he's guaranteed to return to that level. The long-term potential, if any, that Church offers to this team doesn't remotely offset the horrible short-term performance. Yet we keep hearing that "we have to get him going."

NH is obviously hung up on the fact that the Pirates control Church for one more year. That's what this platoon farce boils down to--NH is trying to protect the value of that one year of control. I'm all for the FO taking an analytical approach, but they've lost sight of the forest because of the trees. The cost of "wasting" that one year of an asset--one that may provide no value at all anyway--isn't worth the costs on the field and the opportunity costs of not playing somebody who offers more potential, whether it's Milledge or some younger 4th OF type. EVEN IF, GOD FORBID, CHURCH IS STILL AROUND NEXT YEAR, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE WORTHWHILE OPTIONS FOR THAT ROSTER SPOT. Pearce and Clement will both be out of options, Alex Presley may earn a shot. And NH will no doubt be out there over the offseason looking for another Garrett Jones type. A competent GM should have little trouble finding somebody worth giving a chance to.

I'm not sure if we should take Huntington's comments that the Pirates control Church's rights next year at face value, but if we should, this is probably the reason why. It's also possible that Huntington finally got sick of Church and told Russell to knock it off - Dejan Kovacevic recently wrote that the decision to play Church so much came from Russell.

In any case, the Pirates say they're stopping the platoon. Let's hope they really do it.

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now about the doubles all day no triples unless church is in shift.

by karreemofwheat on Jul 16, 2010 2:36 AM EDT reply actions  

the question is

what was Milledge doing that the pirates needed to ‘push’ him?

by srman on Jul 16, 2010 6:44 AM EDT reply actions  

Happy Dance!

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 16, 2010 7:20 AM EDT reply actions  

Awseome

"I choose to gamble with my life

Twice the risk, four times the prize

Nothing knocks me over"

by lighthouse913 on Jul 16, 2010 7:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

nothing wrong with prioritizing managing assets over winning at this point…
… so long as you recognize that guys like lastings milledge are assets that can hopefully be managed to greater effect than ryan church…

by Captain Easychord on Jul 16, 2010 8:12 AM EDT reply actions  

if the pirates original plan had worked

we would not even be talking about milledge.he would be the 4th outfielder.

by srman on Jul 16, 2010 8:42 AM EDT reply actions  

What was the original plan?

Put on your dancin' shoes.

by PensFan024 on Jul 16, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bring back

Bonds, Van Slyke, and Bobby Bo!!!! That’s an almost-World-Series-contending-outfield right there.

Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis

by CTapps on Jul 16, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd love to see Bonds back here

That would be awesome. Give him a needle, turn your back, and he has 40 HRs.

by H2O on Jul 16, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

A friend of mine said almost the exact same thing at work the other day.

He was arguing that we should just sign Bonds to some ridiculous contract and let him put whatever the Hell he wants into himself, just so long as he’s cranking homers. He was half-serious, which was awesome. In a dirty, messed-up way, I like it! haha.

by bluecheer on Jul 16, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

i guess people are trying to forget but

the original plan was for clement to play 1st, jones in rf, and tabata in lf when they brought him up.clement changed that plan but i don’t think they have given up on him.

by srman on Jul 16, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

I guess so...

…but I feel like that part of the “plan” was pretty fluid, especially considering Tabata was no guarantee to come up this year. Plus, if Milledge is playing well, and Clement playing bad, then screw the plan.

Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis

by CTapps on Jul 16, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t think that was an actual “plan”. I thought that was just one of the options they were looking at. I, like gorillagogo, thought the plan was to see what works best.

Put on your dancin' shoes.

by PensFan024 on Jul 16, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I always thought the plan was to throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks.

by gorillagogo on Jul 16, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Geez

That kat is giving the Nazi salute!

Steve Z

by steve_z on Jul 16, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hate Illinois feline Nazis.

by JRoth95 on Jul 16, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

naw

he’s looking for Kyle, have you seen him?

by BlindSquirrel on Jul 16, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

wait for it

I’ll believe it when I see it

by BadAndy on Jul 16, 2010 9:04 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Managing assets

I’m sure the Pirates were trying to give church value so that they could trade him in July.

But he’s just terrible now.

Moreover, others have made the point. Any attempt to build up Church’s value hurts Milledge.

I’m not sure why they just don’t release him.

If you are rebuilding, what role could Church possible have?

by Bernie6 on Jul 16, 2010 9:18 AM EDT reply actions  

agree

Xavier and Nyjer were traded when they seemed to over perform..
The FO must have been gambling that Church might get hot in June, and they could move him as the July trade season heats up.
In a small sample size, it would have been possible for a guy like Church to hit well enough to dupe another team into wanting him. I don’t think it is a knock on lastings or a failure to recognize one player better than another.

Imagine a scenario where lastings gets all the atbats, and is now on the trading block for a marginally better player/prospects, vs a scenario where church gets hot and is traded for anything.
the church scenario would be vastly preferred.
It’s just that church got so terrible, all trade value evaporated.
It was a risk, and one that didn’t pan out.

by vherub on Jul 16, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

I love the explanation — They had to see whether Milledge would pout. It’s like some idiot experiment, like wanting to see how a rat behaves on LSD.

by WTM on Jul 16, 2010 9:18 AM EDT reply actions  

Watching....

Church swing at breaking pitches in the dirt is how I envision a rat on LSD.

by David Todd on Jul 16, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Are there other idiot psychological experiments going on right now that we don’t know about? Is it possible Ryan Doumit actually throws lefthanded and JR has him throwing right to maximize trade value? :-)

by Fat Jimmy on Jul 16, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think they’re making Crosby play with lead in his glove.

by WTM on Jul 16, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Can I have some LSD?

Might make watching the Pirates for the rest of the season more entertaining.
Anyway, I’m glad Milledge got his starting job back. I really do think he deserves it.

by bluecheer on Jul 16, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

no way

I wouldn’t recommend the risk of a bad trip from watching the play

by BlindSquirrel on Jul 16, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

To take Gerald Ford completely out of context:

Our long national nightmare is over.

"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway

by SubLime on Jul 16, 2010 9:47 AM EDT reply actions  

Don't forget that MILLEDGE vs ANY RIGHT HANDED PITCHER = UGLY STRIKEOUT

Milledge looks really bad vs. righties, he’s an automatic strikeout when they throw a slider on a strike two count. His good numbers lately are more connected to him facing all lefties. For now he’s just a good platoon player until he shows he can hit righties…

by BucsFaninCA on Jul 16, 2010 10:23 AM EDT reply actions  

Milledge is hitting righties BETTER than Church is.

by Thunder on Jul 16, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Milledge… .255 vs RHP…Church .194 vs RHP.

by Thunder on Jul 16, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wrong

Milledge’s career platoon splits are entirely normal – .702 OPS vs. RHP and .791 OPS vs. LHP. Either way, he’s a lot better than Church.

by maguro on Jul 16, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't mind

Lastings being in a platoon role……as long as the left handed half of the platoon isn’t Church.

by Chucksberries on Jul 16, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

So Church isn't starting,

but will we still see him pinch hit in key situations, instead of less terrible and possible future pieces like LaRoche or Kratz?

For some reason, I doubt it. Church isn’t completely gone yet.

by H2O on Jul 16, 2010 10:23 AM EDT reply actions  

You're right.

Just because Church isn’t in the starting lineup anymore doesn’t mean we won’t still get the chance to watch him pinch-hit strike out on a pitch in the dirt with the bases loaded and 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th when the winning run is on base………………………

AUGH

by pittbluedevil on Jul 16, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Weird Platoon anyway...

So, the point was to keep Milledge away from Righties, who he its better than Church anyway, as Thunder noted above. I think that was the point, right?

But, he had double the amount of ABs against righties. Am I missing something?

Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis

by CTapps on Jul 16, 2010 10:54 AM EDT reply actions  

Statistically the platoon did make some sense

Milledge this year:

 vs. rightys

.255/.297/.327 O HR and 12 RBI in 165 AB

 vs. Lefties

.318/.431/.518 3 HR and 14RBI in 85AB

2009 vs rightys

.265/.305/.354 659OPS

vs lefties.

.327/.436/.383 819 OPS

Thus there is some statistical evidence to support a platoon. But consider even the horrible numbers for this year

Church against rightys

2009

.290/.350/.405 3HR 31 RBI in 279 AB

2008

.282/.360/.455 8HR 38 RBI in 213 AB.

Even with his horrible numbers this year he has better slugging and more HR and RBI then Milledge against righties in less AB.

.191/.254/.331 2HR 13 RBI in 124AB.

Church has sucked but there was a basis to think that the offense might be better with platoon of Milledge and Church.

 

by absolute59 on Jul 16, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Holy shit

we did something that made sense. Now can we work on getting a real SS here?

by eyeofhorus777 on Jul 16, 2010 11:52 AM EDT reply actions  

If only we had a bat with a .296 OBP, we could have gotten Yunel Escobar…

by Adam Reynolds on Jul 16, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not much to say other than, “It’s about freaking time!”

by Kidspud on Jul 16, 2010 12:25 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I read all these armchair analysts and I just have to laugh....

You want to know what statistics REALLY matter? 28 games below .500 at the All-Star break. Last place in the NL Central. On track for an 18th consecutive losing season, which WILL happen….

ALL PIRATES FANS MUST rise up in unison and demand that NUTTING MUST SELL THE PIRATES. Until then, all your analysis and statistics are just gum-flappin’ folks! RESULTS are what matters. Look at the RESULTS. The PIRATES ARE NOT GETTING BETTER, NOR ARE THEY GOING TO with the present ownership! NUTTING MUST SELL THE PIRATES! HUNTINGTON, COONELLY, AND RUSSELL MUST GO! Case closed!

by dougalmac on Jul 16, 2010 5:55 PM EDT reply actions  

And please tell me, what exactly has Mr. Nutting done in his two seasons of ownership that makes him so terrible?

by thecheeseisblue on Jul 16, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

It isn't....

what he has done…..It’s what he hasn’t done. He hasn’t done anything to improve the product on the field at the major league level…..now, meaning this year……or for the foreseeable future…..DAHHHHHHH!!!!!! Get his ass out of here.

BTW…..I haven’t attended a Succos game at PNC since 2004. I have gone to New York, Philly, Washington and Milwaukee since to see my team. I refuse to drop my money into Nuttings pockets. If more fans were like me, maybe the pressure would be on for a sale to a willing owner.

by Chucksberries on Jul 16, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

……or for the foreseeable future

So, the draft doesn’t count? Or Latin America? Cause that’s where those players come from. He hasn’t needed to spend money on the major league team cause it wouldn’t make any damn difference. They would still suck, only they would suck and be wasting resources that could be used in a better place.

BTW, you’re really sticking it to him by not going to a game since 2004. Since he’s only owned the team half of the time since then. I think you mean to direct your anger at Mr. McClatchey, who actually was a terrible, cheap owner. (Note: He didn’t spend on the major league team, draft, or internationally. Nutting does, there is no reason to doubt him as of yet.)

by thecheeseisblue on Jul 16, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

But I know you’re going to ignore both reason and common sense and continue to spout nonsense. Have fun at Westboro Baptist.

by thecheeseisblue on Jul 16, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

mebbe

you should change your name to thefaceisblue because that’s how long you’ll be telling these people what’s actually happening until. I don’t think it’ll make any difference though.

by BlindSquirrel on Jul 16, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Name 1 player

that has been drafted the past 3 years that we as fans can hang our hat on?….Pedro Alverez??? He’s here and I hope he improves, but he’s been below average at the plate (see his strike out numbers) and below average in the field (see the Milwaukee series). Bottom line is the Pirate ownership group……which is Nutting and McClatchy are making money…….but not off of me as I refuse to go to PNC to partake in these AAA games.

BTW he (nutting) has had an interest in this team prior to 2004 when my personal boycott began…YOU JAGOFF!!!!!!!!!

by Chucksberries on Jul 16, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

McClatchey isn’t an owner anymore for one. If you’re going to blame minority partners for losing like Nutting was, then I guess the Post Gazette is to blame too. And if you think players should reach the majors in less than two years you’re crazy. Alvarez (spelled correctly) will improve. Immediate improvement doesn’t happen in baseball, this isn’t the MLB.

And also, if you boycott the games, why don’t you boycott these boards as well? You certainly aren’t bringing anything in terms of discussion, and clearly aren’t here to learn anything since you don’t listen. So just, shoo, or something.

by thecheeseisblue on Jul 16, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well...

Maybe it’s the fact that he’s spent more money in the draft than just about any other team, invested in the Latin American (with the Acedmy if not a splash signing yet), and allowed his new President and GM to try to rebuild a barren farm system by trading away a mostly mediocre and aging core for prospects and some reclamation projects. Oh, and he’s also allowed the FO to install an actual system for developing pitchers that shows signs that it may work. Obviously only an incompetent owner would do that.

by GreatCthulhu on Jul 16, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't have a clue.....

7 straight losses as of tonight, now 29 games below .500, 6th (last place) 18th consecutive losing season. Any other dumb questions?

by dougalmac on Jul 16, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't help it if...

you’re in a constant state of denial and don’t get it. RESULTS! RESULTS! Get it?

by dougalmac on Jul 16, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is baseball

If you only look at major league results you’re an idiot that should either get his head out of his arse and learn how baseball works, or move to another sport and leave us alone.

by thecheeseisblue on Jul 17, 2010 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

You are so boring...

Quit hijacking threads with the same old crap. We all get it, you think Nutting is cheap. Brilliant. Now move on. Have something else to say, you sound like a freaking broken record.

by Slick1 on Jul 16, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pay attention....

Nutting is cheap, that’s a fact. But he’s also incompetent, and this team isn’t improving. Do you know what “improving” means? Or are you so used to your losing and denial you can’t smell sh*t when you step in it. For God sakes, get real.

by dougalmac on Jul 16, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you...

I too think Nutting is cheap. I’ve read several reports that he operates all of his business by being as cheap as possible and I have no reason to believe he will not do the same with the Pirates. He said he will spend money when the time is right but I am skeptical that he will spend enough for it to matter. However, since I cannot see in to the future I’ll have to wait and see. All that aside, I agree with you that I think Nutting is cheap. You will never find one post of mine saying otherwise. So, to sum up, I was not disagreeing with you about Nutting. I was telling you to have something else to say or politely shut the hell up!

by Slick1 on Jul 17, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m glad to see that someone finally realized that it would be a good idea to start a player with an 0.7 WAR for this year over a player with a -0.6 WAR.

Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89

Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.

by wg1of5 on Jul 16, 2010 6:35 PM EDT reply actions  

finally milledge is back in outfield

i was getting tired of chruch’s mediocre play

WiLL

by that412kid on Jul 17, 2010 9:58 PM EDT reply actions  

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