Rosterbation
by C Shint on Jul 19, 2010 5:13 PM EDT
Email
Print
Deadline is fast approaching and Im trying to take in exactly what the Pirates will be doing at the deadline. There looks like a few options available to the Pirates. I'm assuming Cutch, Alvarez, Tabata and Walker are untouchable at this point.
1) Yankees. They want bullpen and bench help. But they have some serious issues in their rotation as well. We certainly have pitchers to trade Mahlom and Duke would slot nicely into the back of their rotation. We have bullpen help too, Dotel,Lopez, Donnelly. We can help their bench and starting lineup too. Posada is aging and we have Doumit as an expendable catcher/DH/1B/OF...hmmmm kinda the utility bench player you would like to have.
I also would throw in Garrett Jones if we can snake the Yanks again and get some of their top prospects in a package deal.
2) Braves. They are still looking for OF help. They really dont need a lefty bat but Garrett Jones could come a lot cheaper than some of the other potential trade targets out there. I like there High A SS Mycal Jones, they also have SS Edward Salcedo at low-A. The Braves have a lot of quality starters in their system too. much to the quality of front of rotation guys and the Pirates could certainly use a few of those.
3) Mets. Still alive in a tight race in the NL East. Could use some pitching help as well. Its pretty clear Maholm would get us the most back in terms of value. Doumit may fill in well with the Mets too. Not really sure what the Mets have in their system as they have emptied it over recent years but Im sure we could find something.
There are most likely many other deals that would look from our prospective too. these are just a few that i thought might work out the best or have the most chance of happening. thoughts and debate on the deadline this year? as to just stir up the convo as the deadline approaches...(que the jaws theme)
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
202 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
good article
players I’d like from the Mets include- Jennry Mejia (AA Pitcher), Fernando Martinez (AAA OF), Ruben Tejada (IF)
Braves- Freddie Freeman (1B), Mike Minor (LHP), Craig Kimbrel (RHP), Jordan Schafer (CF)
Yankees- Jesus Montero (Obviously…), Austin Romine ©, Andrew Brackman (RHP), Arodys Vizcaino (RHP), Zach McCallister (RHP)
Realistically we have nothing available that we would trade that could fetch Montero, Mejia, Martinez, Freeman, Minor, or Romine
The rest (Tejada, Kimbrel, Schafer, Brackman, Vizcaino and McCallister) would be ideal returns for a package of Jones or Doumit paired with a reliever like Lopez, Donnelly, or Carrasco
by 2010 will be the year on Jul 19, 2010 5:39 PM EDT reply actions
Minor and possibly Schafer would be the only 2 possibly involved in a deal.
Vizcaino is filthy and was injured (he was the only real return for Vazquez, so he’s probably staying with the Braves for a while)
Kimbrel is compared to Wagner and in line to be our future closer. Freeman is going to be our 1st basemen next year baring a crazy trade.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
I would have taken Yunel Escobar for basically any of our trade chips…
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 19, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
He was a great player. Kinda nuts at time. I think it was basically a parting gift for Bobby since he really got on the skippers nerves.
Salcedo is probably off limits too, since we have a thin crop of middle infield talent which we’ll need to find someone to replace Escobar.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
can we
please trade doumit already. His bat is good (at times) and his defense is rock bottom. I believe i even read somewhere that he has to lowest success rate of throwing out a base stealer this season. i think we can definitely take advantage of some teams like the yanks, or a team looking for a slightly above average bat playing the backstop. Hes a familiar face in our organization but i think it would be best to let him go while his trade value is somewhat decent..thoughts????
its more than likely doumit will be traded at the deadline. i really see no advantage to keeping him around. as you said his defense is poor. his bat hasnt been that great either this year. its most likely he will be traded to an AL team where he doesnt have to play the field at all and DH.
Well, the big advantage in keeping him around...
…is that he’s our best catcher by a significant amount. If we dealt him, we’d need to acquire a replacement over the offseason. That could be done, of course, but it’s enough of a consideration that I wouldn’t deal Doumit just for the sake of dealing him. I’d need/want some actual talent back in return.
Yeah . . .
I’m not on board at all with this trade Doumit just to get rid of him vibe.
we have jarmillo and kratz. i could live with either for a year if thats what it takes. sure kratz is unproven and all but he’s been in pro ball long enough that he knows what hes doing.
and jarmillo is hot and cold but is a better glove than doumit.
Jaramillo is a better glove than Doumit...
…but probably also a 30+ run downgrade with the bat, more than enough to swamp any defensive improvement.
I'm just
waiting on the day sanchez gets the nod to be our long-term catcher. like all you guys said, although jaramillo is a good defensive upgrade, his bat is just as much of a downgrade almost to not make much of a difference. But i feel that bottom line is that i really do like doumit, hes one of the longest tenured guys on the team, (although thats not saying much) but if we have to deal with kratz/jaramillo for a year or 2 im fine with it. doumit isnt getting any better since his career year several seasons back. hes injury prone, and we might as well get something while we still can. Quick side note though, I know i say it every year, but i really hope we sign a half-decent FA this offseason that can actually be considered top 20 at their position.
Jones, Doumit, Ohlendorf, Duke, Dotel, Donnelly, Carrasco, and Lopez are ideal trade chips…for the Pirates. No one else wants that junk. To the rest of the league, Garrett Jones and his .770 OPS is a 29-year-old #7 hitter.
Maholm has some value.
Dotel has value, as well.
Look at the Yanks’ bullpen, for instance. Three of their regular bullpen guys (Park, Chamberlain, and Robertson) have ERAs above five. The other three non-Rivera members of the bullpen right now are retreads Boone Logan, Dustin Moseley, and Chad Gaudin. I’m sure they’d love a guy like Dotel to use in setup relief.
I don’t think the Yankees would pay in prospects to add Maholm to the rotation, since he’d be a man without a rotation spot when Pettitte comes back. In fact, I’m having trouble thinking of any contenders with a desperate need to add a starter – then again, teams in desperate need of starting pitchers generally aren’t contenders to begin with. Detroit, maybe?
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
Mets, Rangers, Phillies, Yankees, Dodgers could all use starting pitching…just saying, even the Twins need some pitching
Dodgers also need bullpen help
maybe trade Dotel, Lopez and Duke for Kenley Jansen,Trayvon Robinson and Scott Van Slyke
Dotel has value, as well.
He does, but just as there are always contenders looking for bullpen help, there are always plenty of rebuilding teams looking to shop mediocre (or worse) relief pitchers. There’s not much of a prospect market for Octavio, given what he’s done this year.
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 19, 2010 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s got 19 saves for a team with 32 wins. Blown saves aren’t attractive by any means but the ERA’s inflated by poor performances in games that were well out of reach. Career ERA of 3.7, solid career numbers across the board actually, tons of experience in multiple roles and he’s got a cheap option should he accept it. He’s not gonna be landing us any Strasburg type guys but I wouldn’t say we can’t get anything useful in return.
Teams are buying for this year, and this year Dotel’s been marginal to bad.
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 20, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Bad?
Even if you just look at raw ERA, that’s a stretch. And his component ratios are much better than his raw ERA.
I also find it curious...
…that you’d say that there’s “not much of a prospect market for Octavio”, given that there have already been published reports in the media of two different teams asking about him.
He could fetch one or two Josh Harrison types by himself.
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 20, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s no evidence of returns at this point, but when other teams will be offering Kevin Gregg, Scott Downs, Robinson Tejada, and Kyle Farnsworth, then his price will be depressed and an erratic Dotel will be less interesting.
Will the Bucs get that 3rd baseman, Matt Dominguez, as was rumored earlier? That would be a huge blunder by the Marlins. The Yunel Escobar trade shows you never know, but it still seems unlikely a team would be idiotic again.
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 20, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, Dominguez is ticketed as the Marlins everyday 3B next year. That’s why I thought that report was bizarre and I don’t trust it too much.
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 20, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Given Farnsworth's history of high-pressure flameouts...
…I can’t imagine that he’d be anything more than an acquisition of last resort for a playoff team. And while Tejeda has been good this year, he doesn’t have Dotel’s experience in pressure situations.
Downs and Gregg seem like more reasonable comps. Though I think Dotel is pretty clearly the best of those three.
Dominguez’s name wasn’t linked to Dotel’s. I provided his name in the FanPost to which you’re referring (along with Kyle Skipworth’s) as a player with the sort of value that we could probably expect back in a Dotel trade.
The only name I saw in a Marlins print report indicated that they were considering a 1-for-1 swap of Dotel for Nunez. Which seems crazy to me, but who knows?
Dotel doesn’t have much postseason experience, and what little he has isn’t very good. Most teams are looking at this year’s ERA first and foremost, and it doesn’t help for the advanced statisticians that his peripheral rates are only slightly better than the ERA this season.
How would we expect to get the Marlins’ top 3B or similar value for just Dotel? We have to be looking at much less value, unless something weird like Nunez comes up.
Dotel for Nunez would be nice. Nunez must have attitude problems or something wrong there.
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 20, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Dotel has pitched well down the stretch...
…for teams that were in postseason races. Which makes him a much better bet than someone like Farnsworth, who’s a gas can when used in anything other than middle relief for bottom-feeding teams.
It seems like you’re significantly overrating Dominguez. The items in his favor at this point are draft pedigree, defense, and age-relative-to-level. Those are good things. But he hasn’t hit at all this year: .233/.310/.394. And he didn’t hit much last year, either. If the Marlins expect to be able to promote him and plug him right into the lineup, they’re in for a rude shock. He’s at least two years away from being ready, and might not get there at all.
It seems like you’re significantly overrating Dominguez. The items in his favor at this point are draft pedigree, defense, and age-relative-to-level. Those are good things.
Certainly. Sounds like Neil Walker in those areas, including struggling at levels he shouldn’t have been at.
It’s not that I’m overrating him. The Marlins are high on him still, which is the point of trying to trade for him. They’re not satisfied with Jorge Cantu going forward. I can tell you that much for sure.
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 20, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Let me repeat myself...
…since it apparently didn’t take the first time. I was not saying that we would trade Dotel for Dominguez. I was saying that if we traded Dotel for one player, it would probably be for a guy of approximately equal value to Dominguez (or Skipworth). A B-/C+ guy with at least a moderately high ceiling, possibly a guy with a formerly high rank who’d come down in the world a bit, since that’s kind of Neil’s MO.
Some guys with Walker’s career path become useful players, and some don’t. Hell, it’s not even a given at this point that Waker will still be at the same level next year.
Again, I think that type of value is way higher than what the Pirates can expect (barring some weird/attitude issues), but we’ll see.
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 20, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Now, is it more than I would pay?
Sure. Buying any veteran at the trade deadline is a sucker’s bet. But the market will bear what the market will bear…
"Most teams are looking at this year’s ERA first and foremost..."
No disrespect, but you know this to be true because.…?
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 21, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree 100%. I wouldn’t say he’s set the world ablaze but “bad” is not even in the picture. Not even close.
To me, he is being overrated by most Pirates fans. We’ll see, though. I wouldn’t be too hesitant to move Dotel, even if he could be passable next year.
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 20, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
His peripherals are decent...
42K/13BB/xFIP 4.31 Not world-beating to be sure, but…
Gregg 71K/30BB/xFIP4.17 (double the innings)
Downs 30K/8BB/xFIP 3.51 (about the same amount of innings)
Downs is certainly doing the best here (I mention Gregg and Downs because they were mentioned earlier as better trade chips than Dotel).
But they are all comparable, though Dotel is clearly a step behind. HOWEVER, teams at the trade deadline jump at the title “closer,” and that makes Dotel attractive here. Teams generally overvalue relievers and especially closers at the deadline. Dotel strikes people out and has closer experience THIS season. I think you can get a decent return, and one better than you would get for Downs or Gregg.
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
Remainder-of-season ZiPS:
Dotel: 25 IP, 3.96 ERA, 1.36 WHIP
Gregg: 29 IP, 4.34 ERA, 1.45 WHIP
Downs: 25 IP, 3.24 ERA, 1.28 WHIP
FWIW.
How about a deal for Manuel Banuelos?
Anyone know what it would take to pry him from the Yanks?
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
I would rather they make a trade.....
….for someone like AAA SS prospect Eduardo Nunez. He is blocked by Jeter and is an MLB ready player at a position the Bucs really need to fill.
If we can snake the Yanks again...
…At the time X and Marte were having career years, and the Yankees reciprocated with commensurate value.
We have no trade pieces having that kind of year so I suspect we won’t be getting anything worthwhile out of them when we look back on this trading season.
by fuzzynewq on Jul 19, 2010 6:31 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Someone argue for why Walker should be "untouchable"?
And I bet we can come up with equally substantial points on why he maybe should be very touchable.
by fuzzynewq on Jul 19, 2010 6:36 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
1. he is clearly our best option at 2B
2. this is only the first season he has ever played 2B, his defense (which is already good) should only get better
3.has come into his own this year at the plate. again, what would be our other option at 2B if not walker? you want iwamura or DY at 2B everyday again?
4.he is only a rookie, he should only improve with seasoning.
I completely see where you’re coming from, and in the context of the options we have to work with right now, his internal value is very high.
But, let’s face it, he’s not McCutchen and his career performance in milb doesn’t leave me confident that it gets much better from here. So, if our goal is average-ish 2nd baseman who just so happens to work there but doesn’t really have a position, then I’m selling.
There’s nothing about him that suggests to me that we’re looking at a future Pirate great. And that’s why I’m just not ready to make him untouchable.
by fuzzynewq on Jul 19, 2010 6:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i dont mean longterm untouchable. i mean this year. this deadline. and if he becomes a solid mlb 2b than ill keep him. im not suggesting he will become a HoF’er but he does have a position (2B). The goal is not to be average but the goal is to build around the stars with substanial players. NW can clearly be a nice “piece” to compliment the likes of Cutch and Alvarez.
So, if we could turn him now for middle infield that plays to his current level, plus another player in AA that would project to come up with the next theoretical group… the Moskos etc. down to Morris, etc. would your feelings change about him at all?
Since he came up and I’ve had this good long look at him, I can’t help from being disappointed that he can’t be our catcher of the future. Maybe its just that idea of having a Pittsburgh guy behind the plate for a long time, I don’t know.
a) why would you want to turn him now with 6 years of control left on him
b) i seriously doubt you can flip a rookie 2b for another substantial 2b and decent prospect. you find me the deal and ill let you know if ill make the trade. as of now im holding on to the pride of pine richland
You’re right, no one out there has the value on him, current or future, that we do. So, we’re unlikely to trade. Which is why I don’t throw numbers out there or anything, rather just a conversation and I appreciate you playing along.
Any trade I could propose would be wildly speculative and getting off my point, which maybe I should re-qualify to being that although he’s untouchable for today’s purposes, I don’t think it will be that way long.
Maybe its just that idea of having a Pittsburgh guy behind the plate for a long time, I don’t know.
why wouldn’t you want him at 2B, if you want him at C?
He’s just not Mazeroski, that’s all. I like him as a catcher on our team…. much more of an identity thing than anything. I’m a Pittsburgh guy and think it would be really awesome if he had a long career here as a catcher like we hoped for back when we drafted him.
We don’t even know if Walker could have stuck at catcher, because Dave Littlefield’s group prematurely moved him to third so he could reach the majors quicker.
He only played 168 games behind the backstop, whereas twice that amount is needed for a sane and reasoned evaluation of whether a high school draftee can stick behind the plate (and fast-tracking Walker’s bat never made sense because he wasn’t in the league of Joe Mauer or Jesus Montero as a hitting prospect).
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 19, 2010 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
is it just me?
Or is NW a bit boss eyed?
by BlindSquirrel on Jul 19, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
We pretty much know that he couldn't have...
…given that the industry consensus at the time was that he couldn’t, and that Walker himself has said that trying to catch was dragging down his offensive performance.
You don’t always need a ton of games to know whether or not a guy can catch. I’m willing to go out on a limb and say, for instance, that Ryan Church probably couldn’t do it, even though to the best of my knowledge he hasn’t played even one game at the position. Sometimes, the player is just plainly unsuitable for the task at hand – which is how it was with Walker and catching.
ummmm come back to the real world yinzer
geez smh
by BadAndy on Jul 19, 2010 9:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If an offer was for a good young starting pitcher, Walker would be outta here.
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 19, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I think if I were in the FO, I would do that deal. Fans who are tired of turning over our talent be damned. If I thought I could get max value out of him today… basically get another team to speculate on his upside, then we win becuase right now he’s giving us more than we thought we would get not too long ago.
How young?
I don’t disagree in principle, but what would he fetch that we don’t already have? Surely a “good” AAA SP is worth more than NW. Drop down to AA, and we’ve got 2-3 “good” SPs already, and no one as good as NW. And if you drop all the way down to A, we’ve got better-than-good SPs coming out our ears. I just don’t see NW returning us a piece that adds more to the club than his value to us. Would NW plus another piece (Doumit? Dotel? Gorkys?) fetch us a good (say, Lincoln-level or better) AAA SP? That’s a deal I’d do. But I can’t see trading away useful ML pieces for A and AA talent right now.
Best chance the Pirates have of getting a good haul
would be to deal Joel Hanrahan. I’m not advocating the deal, but some team would be willing to overpay for him with the stuff he’s shown this year. Especially somebody like the Reds or the Padres who are trying to get over the hump that they weren’t necessarily expected to be at this soon.
Why would you guys want to trade Hanrahan? I understand that he could net a few good prospects but wouldn’t that be perpetuating the same problems the Pirates have had the last 15 years? Finally achieving cheap young players and trading them away for an unproven commodity, thus not helping the team win?
Shouldn’t your goal be to keep the 3 solid pen arms (Meek, Hanrahan, Lopez) to create a good end of the pen?
"Give him the heater Ricky."
the goal is
to keep the good players who we have control over. the bullpen is clearly are strength. if hanrahan is the only player that could bring us a good return back we should make the deal. we would still have good players at the back end with meek and dotel. and as we have seen this year, NH knows that you can build a solid bullpen from guys on minor league deals in ST. wouldnt surprise me if we do it again next year.
Betting on long-term success from pen arms...
…is a fool’s errand. They’re too flaky.
I wouldn’t go out of my way to get rid of our pen arms, but I’d move any/all of them for a good offer.
I know that pen arms are flaky, which I would think would be the reason to drop Dotel and not the younger and better Hanrahan. Anyways, I was simply wondering the thought behind trading the pen away.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
Hanrahan is just as likely to flake as Dotel.
Maybe more so, given his past issues with command and mechanics. There’s a reason the Dodgers let him walk as a minor-league FA three-and-a-half years ago…
I don't disagree....
but he has been so dominant, I would be hesitant. I would like to know when he developed the hard slider and when he started throwing it so damn well. I’m not sure you could give me something right now to trade either Meek or Dotel unless it was a legit ML ready starter and that isn’t happening.
I’m also not sure it wouldn’t be a bad idea to rotate the two of them between setup and closer for the rest of the year if Dotel is moved.
He's always had a good slider.
He had it out of high school, and BA mentions it as a plus pitch in his 2003 profile (the earliest one still posted on their site).
For the purpose of speculation
Let’s look at the Braves as a potential match for the Pirates. I believe I’ve read that Billy Wagner is retiring at the end of this season regardless of the outcome. That means they may be looking for potential closers to fill that gap, in addition to bullpen help in the immediate future. Also, Chipper Jones has wavered on whether on not he’s retiring as well, but there has to be at least some concern for the future in that regard as well.
At this point, I could see offering Hanrahan and Andy LaRoche for a prospect such as Freddie Freeman. If the Pirates prefer pitching, the pride of the Braves’ farm is its pitching depth, and the Pirates could possibly pry Vizcaino or Delgado for Hanrahan, or even Mike Minor.
Thoughts?
Vizcaino and Delgado are considered 2 of their big 3, along with Julio Teheran. We could easily slide Meek into the 8th inning with Hanrahan gone and find someone else for the 7th. It weakens our bullpen but to get a top minor league starting pitcher such as Vizcaino, ill make that deal.
Yeah I know about the big three
but Teheran is likely off limits so I didn’t even bother mentioning him. I believe Vizcanio was also shut down temporarily with arm problems, but i’m not 100% sure about it. The question is whether or not the Braves would go for it.
93.7 the Fan interviewed Peter Gammons this week. He said the most calls in regards to Pirate trades have been for Hanrahan.
well again it all depends on what we get for him. but thats the case with anyone. if we do trade him i hope its for a position prospect though. i feel like we have enough in terms of pitching espcially if we sign taillion and allie. would love to see a nice highly ranked AA ss brought into the system.
Howdy
I’m sliding over from Talking Chop. I really don’t see Hanrahan and LaRoche netting you guys Freeman or any of our top 3 starters. Freeman is basically our #1 hitting prospect and near MLB ready. Vizcaino is the trophy of the Vazquez deal and is dealing this year.
Minor is really good and has good potential. I doubt we’d want LaRoche as our future 3b though.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
Hanrahan is filthy and cheap
Would be a huge loss to give up, even if it is somewhat offset by the presence of Evan Meek. LaRoche’s value is minimal of course. With all of those pitchers in A ball, I wouldn’t be shocked if the Braves would give one up for the return, if it were offered.
The problem with Hanrahan for us is a good one. Our bullpen is deep and very good, so we have no need for him. I do agree that he and Meek are 2 of your most tradeable assets.
I know Cory Hart and Willingham were rumored to be who we’d trade Minor for. So I would have to imagine if they liked Jones enough maybe.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
Simply for the purpose of discussion, because I saw that you guys were talking about it the other day...
….what’s your best offer for Andrew McCutchen?
Well I'd give anything for him.
The Braves need a center fielder. I would imagine he could get a package of Delgado (young sp/part of the big 3), Minor, Schafer and then we could probably throw in Jones like someone wanted and a young reliever if wanted/needed. Of course I’d expect us to get a low level prospect from the Pirates just to even it out (#s wise).
"Give him the heater Ricky."
Taillon and Allie
Are 18 and years away from the majors. Either of them could be absolute failures, and both of them wouldn’t be a shocker. I’ll take good pitching every time.
D’Arnaud is still a decent prospect at AA shortstop. He had pneumonia to start the season and his numbers suffered because of it. He’s been much better since then. I’m willing to give him more time before I give up on him.
well the point of my reply was that of vizcaino, delgado and teheran all three are at low or high A this year. there still a few years off as well. so it appears we have some power pitchers of our own if we sign them. no doubt i would love more top notch pitching prospects but i feel like we may be better served going for a position player, namely a SS, over a pitcher….or maybe we can get both. Hanrahan certainly could command that type of return in a trade.
D’Arnaud is back to hitting like junk in July. I think we’ll throw Chase in AAA next year, and if he doesn’t hit again then he won’t be a prospect anymore. If he played defense much better, I’d be higher on D’Arnaud as a prospect. At least Gorkys Hernandez shows some leather.
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 19, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
and
Mr. Matt Curry 1 for 4, 2RBI, now hitting .413…still waiting for that call to get him up to WV or Bradenton
Likely to be a long wait.
Baker, Anderson, Hague, Clement…all first basemen, all doing relatively well, all blocked by the guy up the ladder.
Curry is just going to have to wait.
Curry is a better hitter than Baker and Big C combined
But hey Calvin will flame out at Altoona (his BB/K spilts are gawd awful)
by BadAndy on Jul 19, 2010 9:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Mets
We could get a certain Fernando Martinez back in return from them.
I’m not really sure why the Mets have given up on him, but at just 21 years of age, he is a 20-30 HR threat in AAA.
but
do we really want another OF to add to our already crowded OF situation. I like FMart since he is probably the only Mets prospect Im highly aware of but we have many options at OF already
If he's the best prospect available then we take him
That’s the best way to build up the team, allowing the Pirates to deal from a position of strength at a later date if an opportunity presents itself.
true
but again is it worth getting an extra OF for what we would have to give up. Im assuming it would have to be at elast Duke or Maholm and possibly another player…maybe Doumit?
Likely Maholm.
I would prefer to go after Flores I think. He’s killing the ball and has a shot to stick in the infield from what I’ve read.
Flores is good for his age, his defense is up from last year which is good. but over on the mets page they are down on him sticking at ss. maybe he will maybe he wont he is young so he still has time to fill out which again doesnt bod well for him sticking at ss.
Ruben Tejeda is a SS playing 2B in the majors
If we could deal Maholm and LaRoche for F-Mart, Tejeda, and a few decent prospects, would you do it?
hands down
we basically are only losing Maholm in that deal. LaRoche is a wash now with NW at 2B and Alvarez at 3B. But, would Maholm and LaRoche really fetch FMart, Tejada and a prospect or two. I mean it seems realistic as FMart has fallen out of favor and thats a typical NH trade but idk if thats really enough in this case.
It might seem like too much, but
I think Maholm is worth a team’s #3 and #10 prospect. LaRoche is to sweeten the deal.
Mets have no use for LaRoche
At least, none that I see. For better or worse, they’re committed to Castillo at 2B, Wright obviously belongs at 3B, and I’m not sure LaRoche adds much as a UT guy.
That said, Maholm adds a lot of stability to their rotation and I think puts them in a great position for the stretch. Actually, maybe we sweeten the deal by taking Ollie Perez back. I don’t know what would be appropriate terms, but talk about addition by subtraction (from the Mets’ POV). And for us, we run him out there a few times and cut him. It’s what the Mets would love to do but Minaya can’t afford the PR hit. But with Maholm looking solid every 5th day in Queens, Ollie (and whatever cash the Mets send with him) would be forgotten pretty quickly out there.
Perez is making rediculous money
And has totally sucked. Pass on taking him back, unless it’s for free.
Oh he's worthless
My point is that we take him, and cover some chunk of his salary (remember, we can afford to do that right now), and in exchange we get a top 3 prospect (and maybe another warm body) that Maholm can’t otherwise fetch. Perez represents a huge headache for the Mets and Minaya, and getting rid of him – and even some of his salary, which looks like a 100% loss at the moment – would be extremely valuable to the team.
He’s due to show up in Queens this week. When they asked Manuel if he’d shown some progress in the minors, he didn’t even try to say “yes”; he just said, “he’s due to come back, that was the agreement.”
but do we really want another OF to add to our already crowded OF situation.
Why not? McCutchen, Tabata, Milledge, Marte, and Rojas Jr. isn’t exactly Cutch, Justin Upton, Heyward, Braun and Rasmus. We could use another upside option, at least.
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 20, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Marte and Rojas
Are still years away from the majors, Milledge is still a question mark.
Heck, Milledge could even be a trade piece to a team that needs a solid OFer, or a replacement for injury. Without much power, I don’t think Milledge can be a long-term option in our outfield, especially with Tabata hitting 5-10 HRs per year.
Milledge could be decapitated in a bus accident tomorrow.
You can never have too much talent at a position. Never. Never never never never never.
If I turn on Pardon The Interuption after work and they are discussing Lastings Milledge’s tragic decapitation because he stuck his out the window of the team bus, I’ll know why.
by Blyleven Curve Ball on Jul 20, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone
know anything about the Dodgers plans for the trade deadline?
With their money situation I think it’d be perfect time to try and extract Dee Gordon if we give them say Maholm and reliever and eat both their salaries. That gives you your SS answer for the next 7 years too.
Grab Gordon and maybe two low A guys in return for Maholm and Dotel. I’d love that.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 19, 2010 11:50 PM EDT reply actions
you seem very very high on Gordon
I m not that high, and it would depend entirely on the 2 other guys, but if we are giving up maholm, I want a AA guy playing well at least.
Whatever happened to Ivan DeJesus? (I'm too lazy to look it up)
I was high on him the past few years, and may still be if I wasn’t too lazy to see what he’s been doing. He’d be a nice snag if he hasn’t completely fallen on his face or had a serious injury.
broken leg
but i am also too lazy to see if he is back playing again.
by BuccoBrigade on Jul 20, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
It appears he is playing this year after missing almost all of last year.
He’s still just 23 and at AAA, although he has been mediocre, especially in the OBP department, which was his strength. Assuming his defense is average or better, I would still be interested in grabbing him for the right price. It seems that price should be somewhat low since he was injured last year, medicore this year, and the Dogers are enthralled with Gordon.
I can see him putting up .350/.375 lines . . .
which works for me if he is good with the glove. Assuming the injury hasn’t taken away his range, I’d flip Dotel for him.
i agree
i think id rather take my chances with DeJesus then Gordon.
by BuccoBrigade on Jul 20, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't care much for DeJesus
The glove is solid, but I don’t think he’s going to hit enough to start. His raw 2010 line looks OK, but Albuquerque is traditionally a very strong hitter’s park in a hitter’s league, so you need to let a good bit of air out of it.
Actually, I think his line at Albuquerque raises concerns.
It’s his lines at Inland Empire and Jacksonville and the age at which he put up those lines, coupled with the fact that he hasn’t fallen on his face as a 23 yr-old at AAA after an injury year, that raises my interest. Of course, context is key, and I think he is someone, considering our dearth of SS depth, that would be worth Octavio Dotel, a mid-30s, un-special reliever.
Even without researching it, I’m willing to concede Gordon is a superior prospect, but that’s a red herring.
Dotel is a Type B.
Possibly a Type A, depending on how the rest of the year goes. And his K rate is anything but “un-special”. He’d be a good pen addition for most teams.
Dotel would have to refuse arbitration for his FA type to mean anything . . .
and I’m not sure that happens. And I’m not sure the Pirates just don’t pick up his option next year, meaning we’d have another year to wait for the compensation, the compensation might be lesser if he performs bad, and we’d have to offer arbitration to an even older reliever. That said, if I was confident he was a Type A, perhaps I would be more hesitant.
Further, while his K rate might be “special”, that specialness is cancelled by his BB and HR rates, which are problematic. I dont think Dotel is bad, and I do think he has value to toher teams, but I would rather have DeJesus than Dotel and speculative compensation.
Even if he's only a 50% shot to decline...
…that still brings added value to the table in a trade package.
Pitchers with extreme splits of one kind or another are easier to exploit tactically than pitchers with vanilla splits across the board. There are situations in a game where you absolutely have to have a K, and in those situations you’re better off with someone like Dotel than with someone who’s pedestrian in all respects.
There’s a very good chance that DeJesus is Brian Bixler with a family pedigree. That’s not something I’d want to expend one of my precious few trade bullets in order to get. Particularly in an offseason when space on the 40-man is going to be tight.
That's fine.
DeJesus was putting up a fantastic line at AA at an age Bixler was facing whoever the hell Eastern Michigan plays, but I understand the overall point that DeJesus is far from a sure thing and may have a similar skill set.
Of course, my suggestion was made in a vacuum- that is, it was without seeing who else the Pirates could nab for Dotel. However, if the only trade available to me was Dotel for DeJesus, unless my scouts made a convincing argument otherwise, I would deal.
I'm somewhat suspicious of DeJesus's 2008...
…since it came largely on the back of a .374 BABIP, which seems out of line with the rest of his career. He’s at .337 this season, and was at .326 and .328 in 2007 and 2006 respectively.
If DeJesus were the best offer on the board, I’d probably prefer to just stick with Dotel.
I'd like more than that for Maholm.
Gordon has really slipped in the rankings this year hasn’t he? (I know rankings aren’t everything, but I have limited knowledge so I tend to over-rely on them)
Error totals on minor league shortstops are meaningless.
There are lots of good defensive shortstops in the majors who had seasons with 30+ errors in the minors.
but i mean it is AAA and thats well on pace for 40+ errors. that doesnt seem like it would translate well to the mlb
Minor league error rates...
…don’t “translate” at all. There are guys who made 60+ errors in A/A+ who became good defensive shortstops.
You need to rely almost entirely on scouting for guys in the low minors.
but he isnt in the low minors. he is at AAA, one stop away from the big leagues. you cant just dismiss those kind of numbers. if it was 26 for the year than yeah, look past them, but 26 at this point with plenty of season left, not as easily dismissive.
Gordon isn't at AAA.
He’s at AA this year, with 26 errors. And last year, he was at A, with 34.
I dismiss “those kind of numbers” easily because as I said earlier, they don’t mean anything. Look at Jay Bell’s minor league error rates. 59 in 1985 alone, and 45 in 123 AA games the year after that. And he turned out fine. If you look at the minor league error rates for almost any starting shortstop, you’ll find the same kind of thing. Shortstops who don’t make errors in the minors are mostly shortstops with no range who aren’t getting their hands on balls.
ah my bad my bad, misread there on my part, thought it said AAA. even still if i cant personally watch the guy field i have to go off of something. and that many errors to me shows poor fielding. the numbers have to mean something, or else they wouldnt be counted
Gordon is regarded as having...
…good defensive tools by the scouts. For example, here’s BA’s description of his defense from their 2010 annual:
Strengths: His range is outstanding, as he gets to balls few other shortstops do. He has good actions and a solid arm. His tools also would make him a plus defender in center field.
Weaknesses: He topped MWL shortstops with 34 errors, with many coming on throws because he tends to drop down his arm angle. He also needs to be more aggressive at shortstop and let fewer grounders play him.
So in a nutshell, he’s fast and agile and has a good arm, but has some technique issues that he needs to work on, which are leading to his current error totals. Pretty much par for the course for a talented young shortstop.
The numbers are counted as a record of what happened in the game. To that end, the “meaning” of an error by Gordon is that a particular run allowed by his pitcher was earned or not. But just because Gordon’s errors are counted and listed on the stat sheet doesn’t mean that they have predictive value.
Dee Gordon – doesn’t look like he can hit too much. Fairly good defensive potential but not a lot of defensive results so far. Probably acceptable as centerpiece for a Duke or Doumit package, but I don’t know about Maholm.
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 20, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe we should just deal with the Royals.
Their system is stacked, and they also seem to hate Alex Gordon. I don’t hate Alex Gordon though, and I beat Huntington doesn’t either.
dayton moore is an idiot
can we get kila kaihue out of there please? When does he hit minor league FA?
I'd rather acquire Billy Butler
Maybe KC will take Gorkys, Rudy, and Matt Hague if that’s what it takes.
by BadAndy on Jul 20, 2010 8:05 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The Pirates need to get something close to ML-ready if they trade Jones or Maholm.
High A pitchers and AA shortstops aren’t gonna cut it for them. They both should have pretty decent trade value, and the Pirates can’t give them up if it means being replaced by Clement/Pearce and Dan McCutchen. I know we’re not winning anything next year, but I’d rather not lose 120 games.
I like Alex Gordon, too, but not more than Jones, Tabata, or Milledge, and that would create a logjam. I’d only pursue Gordon if there was a good offer on the table for Jones.
I’m not expecting Jesus Montero, but I’ll be pissed if the Pirates get shortchanged again this year.
I’d prefer Single-A players to close to the majors talent. Close to the majors is more guys like Jeff Clement and Daniel McCutchen. I’d prefer to gamble on some lower lever prospects instead of getting more of the MLB guys.
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 20, 2010 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Maholm>Snell/WIlson or Nady/Marte
The reason we’ve gotten back mediocre close-to-the-majors talent is that, as everyone always points out, we weren’t trading away great talent. Maholm isn’t a great talent, but he’s probably the best piece, other than Bay, we’ve had available since Giles – he’s young, cheap, under control another year, and has 3-hit CG shutout upside. He’s a #3 (or higher) SP for probably 25 teams. I’m not saying that means he would fetch anyone’s #1 prospect, but he is worth a lot more than Clement or McCutchen. Furthermore, all A-level pitchers are longshots, no matter their talent level, due to injury risk, and I’ve no interest in trading an established MLB SP for nothing.
which is why i would like to flip him for some high upside, low level, position prospects. i really dont see guys like diaz, d’arnuad, and harrison being solid major leaguers. so i would really like it if we could get a top ss.
we missed out on sano even though he probably wont stick at 3b and we skipped over machado at the draft. were clearly hurting for a future ss that has above average talent. lets go get one? right?
Saying "guys like diaz, d’arnuad, and harrison"...
…is like saying “car manufacturers like Lada, Lexus, and Ford”. Other than the fact that all three guys play baseball for us, they don’t really have anything in common. D’Arnaud is a good prospect, Harrison is a marginal prospect, and Diaz is no kind of prospect at all.
I'm fine with position prospects
Including low level ones, if they’re good enough. But I feel that, for a guy like Maholm (who, in addition to his trade value, is worth a lot to us right now), low level SPs are just too iffy. Whereas a stud SS at high-A has a pretty damn good chance of sticking, at least relative to a stud SP at high-A.
Another thing, now that I've read more of the comments.
Hanrahan isn’t a guy NH should be trading for anything less than a team’s top two or three prospect. He’s got disgusting stuff and comes dirt cheap. He’s young, and he’s a huge asset to the Pirates’ best asset, their bullpen. Really, he’s just as good as Meek.
They don’t need to gut everything they do well.
Hanrahan will net us a sick return
By this time next year at the earliest
by BadAndy on Jul 20, 2010 8:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bullpen guys are totally unpredictable though
The best way to ensure a sick return is to trade him today.
If bullpen arms are so unpredictable from year to year…how would you expect to receive elite prospects for one? Especially a “non closer”.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
Because he's dominant right now and likely will be a closer whether he stays or goes.
Plus, not everybody views the bullpen as being volatile like NH does.
Because the supply of bullpen arms at the trade deadline is limited...
…and a team acquiring one as a short-term fix isn’t going to care what he does two years from now, since they’re planning on letting him walk in November.
no one has mentioned the detroit tigers
they need a catcher,starting pitcher,relief pitching and now with their 3rd baseman getting hurt and being out 4-6 weeks,a 3rd baseman.what about a deal sending laroche,doumit,donnelly and duke to the tigers for dan worth,adam wilk, brayan villarreal,matt hoffman and francisco martinez.
Doesnt really do it for me...
though we arent reall giving up too much in this deal, but id rather get quality, then quantity.
by BuccoBrigade on Jul 20, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
what do you think a realistic trade would be then this year? curious to see how you stack up what we have to offer and what the return is
At the risk of sounding repetitive
You think the Dodgers would consider biting on something like a Maholm and Dotel (if we also ate part or all of their salaries) for something like Gordon, Martin, and Trayvon Robinson or Kyle Russell or is that asking too much? What about Gordon, Gould and Lambo or would you have to drop down on the pitcher (say Webster over Gould or again Robinson or Russell over Lambo)?
Are the Dodgers even interested in trading at all? Anyone know? Maybe I’ll go ask over at the Dodgers blog….
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 20, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Right now...
…I have no idea what the Dodgers are willing to do, given the uncertainty surrouding the divorce, and I doubt that anybody other than the McCourts does, either. If the judge decides that they need to sell the team and divide its assets, they might even be sellers.
If the Pirates eat salary, the Dodgers are unpredictable
The Dodgers are interested in trading, but salary needs to be eaten. You won’t get both Martin and Gordon in a deal for Maholm & Dotel, but I wouldn’t rule out getting one of the Dodger top prospects and a lesser prospect closer to the majors. Colletti and the McCourts have done this kind of deal multiple times (see Sherrill, Garland, and shudders Blake)
by QuinnTheEzkamo on Jul 20, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't forget
I agree with the sentiment that relievers are replaceable and their performance from year to year is unpredictable, but let’s not forget – other professional general managers prrrrobably are also aware of this fact. It’s a bit delusional to talk about trading Hanrahan, Dotel, or even Meek for teams’ top prospects as though the Pirates possess this secret knowledge about reliever performance fluctuation that no other MLB teams do.
elvishasleft.com
bestweekever.tv
That’s what I was trying to get at earlier in the post. I just can’t see ANY team trading a pen arm having a good season and getting back a top 5 prospect, unless they are trading a proven elite closer.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
Top 5 for a given team, or for the league?
The former is potentially reasonable in a weak system. The latter, not so much.
Top 5 player in a strong minor system. I agree that the weaker the minor system the easier it is to get a higher ranked player. That being said, I believe most of the contending teams usually have strong minor systems, which in turn make that more difficult.
It is possible though, to get a player like Bell you mentioned below. I’m not saying its impossible, just very difficult and its always easier to undervalue your own talent when figuring trades because everyone always overvalues their own talent. But I’d love nothing more than see the Pirates pick up some amazing talent.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
George Sherrill
Wasn’t he acquired for Josh Bell? That’s the kind of deal I would happily do for Hanrahan/Dotel.
For Josh Bell...
…AND another player (Steve Johnson, who’s apparently fallen apart this year). BA had Bell as LA’s #8 coming into the season. They had a pretty strong farm, though – he would’ve been top 5 for some teams.
Strictly speaking, that's not a MLBTR post.
That’s an article by Dejan (Link), being linked and repackaged by MLBTR.
The Joe Blanton trade of a few years back is probably a useful point of comparison here.
That's the vast majority of the posts at MLBTR..
…they’re basically all links to articles by sports writers. I didn’t mean to imply that they had sources confirming the interest, and it’s my bad if that was indeed implied by my post.
Not a problem.
I just like to make sure the original writers get credit for their work. Plus, this one being from Dejan gives it a little extra credibility in my book.
Second look at trading Maholm? Just as I noted that there were a ton of average relievers as good as Dotel on the market, there are also plenty of pitchers like Maholm that could be floated.
When the supply is greater than the demand, the price goes down. That definitely points to us holding onto him.
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 20, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
So If I were to tell you that the Pirates just traded Maholm and cash to the Dodgers...
…..what would you say the Pirates received in return?
How much cash? Full salary?
Two guys in the “B” range, at a bare minimum. We’d probably try for Gordon as top guy in the deal, and might get him. If I were to guess, Gordon plus either one good arm or two decent-but-flawed ones. We were at least a little bit into James McDonald when we were talking to LA about Jack Wilson, so he might be a part of a deal.
I really do think that the Blanton deal between Oakland and Philly is the useful template here. Blanton’s a durable lefty starter, usually around a 100 ERA+, give or take. Came with 2.5 years of control. Brought back two very good prospects in Outman and Cardenas, plus a fairly interesting third body in Matt Spencer.
Maholm’s a broadly comparable player (I think that on the whole Blanton is a little better, but Oakland didn’t pay Blanton’s salary, either), and he’s under control for two and a half years (thanks to his 2012 option). Blanton was 27 when he was traded, and Maholm’s currently 28, so that’s pretty close.
Not sure where to put this, but I love tonight's lineup.
No Church!
1. Jose Tabata, CF
2. Delwyn Young, RF
3. Neil Walker, 2B
4. Garrett Jones, 1B
5. Pedro Alvarez, 3B
6. Lastings Milledge, LF
7. Erik Kratz, C
8. Ronny Cedeno, SS
9. Brad Lincoln, P
Except there are going to be a lot of triples to right field ;)
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
Yeah, but I can live with those over strikeouts looking and swings in the dirt.
by Suffering Buc on Jul 20, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Tabata
Alvarez
Walker
Jones
Milledge
Doumit
Young
Cedeno
Lincoln
^better.
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 20, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
idk if I'd rather have Doumit over Kratz
This isn’t because I hate Doumit (it probably does factor in), but I would like to see Lincoln working with a catcher that he’s comfortable with.
If Lincoln pitches well, Kratz should be his full-time catcher.
Well, he didn’t pitch well, so Kratz shouldn’t be a full-time catcher.
Like I’ve said in other threads. Go to the end of the season with Doumit at catcher (because he’s the best option), then try to find an upgrade in the offseason if the team can. Kratz getting a lot more PT isn’t really a solution.
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 21, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah not too bad
stick mccutchen in there for Young and thats a pretty decent line up, albeit with an unproven kratz
As far as the Dodgers-Pirates trade is concerned.
…Maybe you guys remember, maybe you don’t.. but I said I had a friend in the Pirates organization that said we were close to dealing him this off-season and getting McDonald, Ely (From Chi Sox) and a couple other pieces in return, so this won’t shock me if it happens now.
If I’m the Bucco’s I try and do everything in my power to acquire James Loney. Personally love the guy and would be stoked if we got him. I wouldn’t hesitate for a second to include Meek if Loney was coming back to us.
Realistically, I’m guessing Maholm/Dotel could net us McDonald, Paul, and maybe another average/fringe prospect (Josh Harrison type)
Regarding possible Maholm trade to Dodgers
I would be fine with young righty fireballer Chris Withrow and RH power bat Jerry Sands. Let me say once more. Sands has CRAZY power.
I don’t want Dee Gordon. He has speed but apparently not much else.
by BadAndy on Jul 20, 2010 4:11 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Withrow was their #2 prospect coming into the year.
I don’t know that they move him for Maholm, even though he’s struggling a bit at the AA level. Not that I’d mind if they did, though, of course.
As for Sands, you weren’t kidding. I don’t know how this guy isn’t a top-10 Dodgers’ prospect on anyone’s lists. A 22-year-old putting up those numbers between A and AA ball? Sign me up.
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
LA's system has come down in the world the last few years.
They were riding high before the McCourts took over, but Frank cut the draft budget, and it’s starting to show. Their #2 guy isn’t as untouchable as he would’ve been a few years ago.
Gordon's speed
If he could hit .270 or better with tons of steals (he is on pace for more than 60), then he would fit perfectly into our lineup.
Tabata, McCutchen, and Gordon would be perfect for a small-ball type offense. If we could add another power hitter to Jones/Alvarez, we could have a terrific offense, and still enough pieces to trade for an ace.
If we could get Sands and Gordon
The future lineup would have me drooling. Tabata, Gordon, McCutchen, Alvarez, Sands, Jones, Walker, Sanchez is incredible.
We would still need pitching, but that’s a scary lineup.
How about Garret Jones for...
Kila Ka’aihue plus a pitching prospect? The Royals are loaded, and they are going to destroy most of their own prospects!
just curious
and not facetious:
in your opinion, does Jones give you something you won’t get from Pearce? (apart from playing the OF)
and wrt comment, I didn’t intend for the pitching prospect in above deal to be a random one, but a decent B- ish prospect
by BurgherKing on Jul 21, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
The OF ability is the main thing.
That and the left-handedness. Ka’aihue’s a lefty too, so I guess he’d give you a platoon partner for Pearce, if you wanted one.
I had been kind of assuming a random arm, since you didn’t give a specific name. If you were thinking more of a name brand-type guy, that’d be a fairer exchange.
The real question
is why in the hell would the Royals be “buyers” I guess Jones is under control for a while and Kila is useless to them (at least in their opinion). On that note he’d be more than useless to us. Reports I’ve read chalk his defensive prowess to be on Big Papi levels. He’s not even a below average defender at 1B. He’s an AL only type guy.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 21, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
i didnt give a name because I dont know the system that well
but from everything i’ve heard the system is stocked! we may not get the guys right at the top, like Montgomery or Crow, but maybe a Chris Dwyer? Again, I m not too familiar with the system, so I just looked up Sickels’ list and of the B-/C+ guys Dwyer looked good.
what about boston
they can use a catcher, and maybe a bench player who can play outfield, or possibly a DH
WiLL
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bucs Dugout
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
