Pedro Alvarez, Neil Walker Go Nuts As Bucs Beat Brewers In Wild Game
by Charlie on Jul 20, 2010 10:47 PM EDT
73 comments
Man, this one had it all - a five-hit performance by Neil Walker, two homers in two innings by Pedro Alvarez, including a grand-slam, an everybody-bats inning in the first, a temper tantrum by and ejection of the usually-comatose John Russell, and even a caught stealing by the Pirates defense (even if the runner had to slide past the bag for Erik Kratz to pull it off). Even if the Pirates almost blew a nine-run first-inning lead, this was one of the coolest games of the year.
Although I think that the problems people have with Russell's demeanor are greatly overstated, it was a lot of fun, on a purely visceral level, to see him get really mad. And it's also been great to see so much offense. This is the first time in a while where I really want to stop watching what I'm doing and watch some of these guys hit. It's great now that the Pirates have several hitters (Alvarez, Walker, Lastings Milledge, and even Jose Tabata, who has really hit the ball hard a lot) who we can feel confident about, in addition to Andrew McCutchen.
A couple notes:
-P- Regarding the Paul-Maholm-to-the-Dodgers rumors, I'm not sure I'd spend much time worrying about this just yet. The Dodgers don't have a great farm system, and while I'm sure the Pirates are open to trading anyone, I'm not sure they'd really want to trade Maholm. As much as the rebuilding plan involves trading veterans, they need Maholm, who has been really the only reliable arm in the rotation this year. Also, there should be no rush to trade him, since the Bucs control him at reasonable prices through 2012.
-P- The Post-Gazette announces some Latin American signings, including some dollar figures, which are helpful, since without those it's hard to tell what these signings mean. Pitcher Isaac Sanchez and outfielder Miguel de Aza both got over $100,000, so watch out for them in the Gulf Coast League in about two years.
-P- The Pirates are close to signing 13th-round draft pick Chris Kirsch. This isn't much of a surprise, since he isn't committed to a major college program. Kirsch is 18 and hasn't done much competitive pitching, so if the Pirates sign him, it could be a couple years before he really gets anywhere.
-P- Here's a really good article on Evan Chambers that makes clear that both he and the Pirates understand that in order to make it to the bigs, he's going to have to be more aggressive at the plate. If you take a look at the picture, you can also see why I've said he's a pretty small dude.
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@jcrasnick I’m definitely rooting for Pirates C Erik Kratz after watching him get called up during AAA All-Star Game. Seems like a cool dude.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
Does he still want Alvarez sent down?
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 20, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
why did russell get mad and ejected?
i wasnt able to watch the game
Argued....
a foul ball the batter hit off himself was called and late and shouldn’t have been called by the first base umpire.
I do find it amusing that he gets thrown out in games where he is clearly wrong, like the foul ball down the first base line and while ago. In this case the ball hit the left handed batter and caromed down the third base line. Not sure it was worth the beef he put up, but maybe he had another point.
Just a thought on another point
I think in both instances, JR believed that the call was being made against the Bucs by an umpire not in position to make the call made (i.e., to see the ball hit the line or, tonight, to see the ball bounce off the batter’s back thigh) and that call was being made at the Pirate’s expense because, oh well, it’s only the Pirates. Who cares if the call goes against them.
In both cases, the replay confirmed that the “right” call was made, but the larger point seemed to be that JR believed that his team was being disrespected by the umpires and that he was not going sit by and take it…. Just a thought…
And it’s only taken 2 1/2 years for JR to figure out that his team is being disrespected by the umpires.
I think he did have an argument, but the call was correct. Just seemed weird seeing him get so heated over that after doing nothing about that ridiculous swing call on Alvarez a little earlier. Pedro’s bat barely moved and it was the home plate ump who made the call without even asking for help. It just was obviously a more egregious blown call in an important spot and he said nothing.
I think the called swing by the home plate ump on Alvarez is what led to the argument that got him booted. I thought he should’ve come out on the Alvarez “swing”. I don’t know if he said anything to the ump from the dugout or between innings or not.
Arguing balls and strikes
gets you automatically tossed. I suppose that goes for checked-swing strtikes too. Pick your battles, they say.
I also think..
That it may have been carry over from the strike 2 call on Pedro an inning before.. He clearly did not swing and the homeplate umpire called it a strike without even apealing to the 3rd base ump. Russel seemed pretty peeved about that in the dugout and was even yelling some stuff in the direction of home plate.
When he went up to the home plate ump after being ejected,
he was bitching about the Alvarez call, and kept saying “that was fucking bullshit, and you know it”. I was watching the game with someone who can read lips really well.
Yah...
I read his lips and that’s what he said………but why go out and argue with the umpire when the correct call was made? Especially when that umpire will be calling balls (Duke’s pitches) and strikes (Wolf’s pitches) the very next game? Professionally you would like to think the umpires are impartial. However, they are human beings and we have the capacity to hold grudges……JUST SAYIN!!!
BTW….how about the bullshit called strike on Doumit……if it was any lower it woulld have bounced off the apex of the plate.
by Chucksberries on Jul 21, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Hate to be the complainer, but you’d like to see Lincoln pitch better. I only saw his 2nd inning, although he looked fairly hittable there. He only managed one strikeout in this game, which keeps his total low.
Lincoln is more talented than fodder like Karstens and Ohlendorf, as he showed in the Cubs game (his only extremely impressive outing). But he has yet to show it and harness his stuff.
Agreed.
Ohllie is not fodder. He not only is consistently decent and has been since mid-2009, he’s also fairly young. His intelligence helps him learn what he can or cannot do so I see him improving slightly in the coming years. He can be a #2 or #3 as we get better and I’m fine w/ that.
Yinzers uber alles
Alvarez jumped a full 30 pts. to over .330.
Walker is now over .340.
Take that, Jerry Crasnick!
by Suffering Buc on Jul 21, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
This was a strange strange game
when you score 9 runs in the first and your closer gets a save, you know something strange just happened
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"He Twittered that pitch" Steve Blass
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
To be fair though,
Pirates, Vikings, Hokies. I'm used to heartbreak. At least I have the Penguins....
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-The Great One
by blackjackfishtaco on Jul 20, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
reply fail
To be fair though, that was only 1 inning in a 9 inning game. The Brewers still had 8 innings to tie the Pirates. Granted, it’s uncommon and I’m not happy that it was that close, but it’s not completely impossible.
Pirates, Vikings, Hokies. I'm used to heartbreak. At least I have the Penguins....
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-The Great One
by blackjackfishtaco on Jul 20, 2010 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
TRADE DUKE, not Mully - continue to cleanse the Pirates of WIMPS and Comatose players
Duke should be traded for not retaliating against Russ Ortiz when he had the chance, after Ortiz hit two of our guys and threw at Andrew’s head twice. Duke is not a team player. Just like Gorzo needed to be traded because he has a comatose personality, just having him around put the rest of the team to sleep. There is cleary a fire on this team and we need to get rid of jerks like Duke and sad sacks like Doumit to finish the process.
Gorzo wasn't traded for being comatose.
Gorzo was traded for pitching like crap for 2+ years, and not listening to the coaches when they tried to help him.
Also, trading Duke right now would be selling very low on him. And the Doumit thing is stupid, too.
its Ramon not Russ
I think the Dodgers DFA’d him recently
by BadAndy on Jul 21, 2010 12:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Duke is top pitcher
If you knew anything, if Duke retaliated the umpire would throw him out and be fined.
Duke has been a good pitcher until he was pitching with an injury.
rookies have been on fire
exciting times in Pittsburgh and it has nothing to do with the Steelers
I love getting to see this team click, and hope they can make their way out of the basement
Lincoln needs to do better
given a 9 run lead, he needs to pitch at least 7 innings and win the game easily
Absolute NO To Trading Maholm
He is the ONLY proven major league number 3 starter with the potential to be a number 2 that we have. Ohlendorf can be a 2-3 and perhaps Lincoln in another year but that’s all we got. Consider this…of the teams with the 9 lowest ERAs at this point in the season, 8 are in either first or second place in their division. We are a long way from being in that group and will only step further back by trading Maholm.
What Would You Give...
to get Maholm? A proven major league power hitter? Not a chance. Your top minor league prospect? Don’t make me laugh. We MAY be able to get two mid-level prospects with upside. The problem is that the Bucs need starting pitching, Period. We have one proven starter, Maholm, so the offer would need to blow me away in order to trade him. Anyone willing to do that is going to go after Oswalt.
What would I give?
It depends what I have, and how badly I need him.
Maholm is more attractive than Oswalt in some respects. He’s younger, and his health record is better, and he’s under team control for several more years. A team looking for the maximum possible 2010 impact would probably target Oswalt, but for a team looking to add a piece that could contribute for several years, Maholm might be a better fit. Maholm’s left-handedness might also make him disproportionately attractive to a team with a righty-heavy rotation.
If we could get two high-quality prospects back for Maholm (and that’s probably the asking price), it might make sense to take the offer. Particularly if either or both fill an area of need.
The Dodgers make a good trade partner...
…if the Pirates move Maholm. They have a few talented minor leaguers and would appreciate Maholm’s contract. Moreover, the Pirates can take on salary or pay for Mahom’s salary if the Dodgers were willing to sweeten the return for Maholm. Money is an issue for the Dodgers, as astonishing as it may seem. So, Maholm, Carrasco and Dollars could bring two top-shelf prospects.
I’d make this trade in a second.
Steve Z
Dollars =
Cash to the cash-strapped Dodgers or taking back a bad contract from the cash-strapped Dodgers.
The Dodgers have been and remain a cash cow but the McCourt’s effed up that productive heffer real good. Then they fought out a bitter divorce and treated the Dodgers as the main stake in the divorce! So, it’s not unrealistic to expect the Dodgers to trade prospects for financial relief and a Major League player or two.
Frank McCourt seems to be McClatchy’s successor as the Worst Owner in Baseball.
Steve Z
Maybe ANOTHER LaRoche...
can be pried away from the Dodgers. That’s the problem with trading for prospects. It’s a crap shoot. Maholm is young and while he will never be a Number 1 starter he is certainly a comfortable Number 3 with the potential to be a Number 2. Those guys don’t just grow on trees. The Bucs have one of the highest ERAs in all of baseball and may trade their ONLY established starter who has performed well? This makes no sense whatsoever.
Top talent like...
Andy LaRoche, Brandon Moss, Charlie Morton, etc.? The problem with prospects is that most do not pan out. Maholm, Hanrahan and Meek are young, currently inexpensive, talented pitchers performing well at the major league level RIGHT NOW. Taking the weakest part of your team and making it weaker to acquire yet another prospect or two that may or may not pan out makes no sense. If these guys were nearing the downside of their career or were about to become free agents, heck I would trade them for whatever you can get. That is not the case here.
No, we traded for all of them. Though I still think Morton will be fine.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 22, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
And that, right there...
…is why they call it gambling. You get multiple prospects, with multiple chances at a top performer. Sometimes, they all bust. Sometimes, you get more than one success per trade (as with the Nady deal, which brought us Tabata and Ohlendorf).
That’s why you try to accumulate a large mass of prospects – so that you’ll have a decent number of contributors remaining even after weeding out the busts.
And of course, veteran players don’t always continue to pan out, either. Think we’re disappointed with what Morton’s done so far? How do you think the Braves feel about Nate McLouth? But while McLouth was the Braves’ only return in that trade, and they’re cooked if he doesn’t perform, we got three bites at the apple: Morton, Gorkys, and Locke.
Well, I'm not too concerned with winning games this year
The Pirates are in building mode and I don’t expect Maholm to be a feature player on the next contending team in Pittsburgh.
Steve Z
And those areas of need, in my opinion,
are 100 percent a shortstop and pitching, by the way. I don’t think we could get Gordon for him, but if we could, that’s one of the offers I’d take. Even still, I wouldn’t be at all eager to trade him.
by Suffering Buc on Jul 21, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
lets look at the big picture here
There are two things the Pirates lack right now. Power and top shelf pitching.
We NEED a RH power bat to compliment Pedro within a couple years. We NEED a top shelf pitcher to complement Taillion and next year’s draft pick (either Cole or Purke since I doubt we get Rendon)
If we could get those two types out of Maholm and Carrasco/Dotel then that wil be an automatic win.
Furthermore, if we trade Maholm away we NEED a major league starter who will have twice more years of control remaining than Maholm 1-2.
If Neal is unable to accomplish that (or more likely other GMs will try to give away their rejects and fool Neal to think they’re the real deal) then we need a new regime
by BadAndy on Jul 21, 2010 11:24 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Every team is looking for power and top-shelf pitching.....
It’s a lot easier to say it than to find it and ever moreso to acquire it.
by CabreraKilledMyChildhood on Jul 21, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Trades
The Pirates aren’t going to get much for Maholm, or Dotel. For the Pirates to get anything in return, they have to trade someone with high value.
What about trading Maholm and Even Meek for a high end prospect…..either a major league ready shortstop with some pop or a top of the rotation pitcher. The pitcher would probably be in AA and a year or two away from the bigs.
Meek is the type of player the Pirates need to keep. He’s cheap right now, has years to go before FA and should continue to get better. However, we don’t have a SS anywhere in the organization and our pitching depth is iffy at best. Lets face it, the Pirates are not going to contend this year or next. Shouldn’t Huntington’s “big picture” be 2012? Meek would be the closer by then, but so could Hanrahan.
I'm confused
Are you quoting someone else’s post, or are you arguing with yourself about whether we should trade Meek?
HOWEVER
You do know the definition of the word “however” don’t you? I think I used it in it’s correct context.
by Chucksberries on Jul 21, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Get serious
Who was the last “top of the rotation prospect” traded for by any team that actually became a top of the rotation guy? Clubs don’t give these guys nor 40+ HR prospects. Oh the press release will talk with glowing praise for the prospect and how he has “unlimited potential” but the realization of that potential is rare.
"Who was the last 'top of the rotation prospect' traded for by any team that actually became a top of the rotation guy?"
Pedro Martinez was traded as a prospect. So was John Smoltz. And Edwin Jackson. And Ricky Nolasco. And Ted Lilly. And Scott Kazmir. And Matt Garza. And so on, and so on…
Or, if you go back into team history a bit, Jon Lieber and Denny Neagle.
Brett Anderson, Gio Gonzales, Freddy Garcia, Adam Wainwright, Dan Haren, Doug Drabek...
And still a few more: Cliff Lee, Clayton Richard, Fransisco Liriano, Bill Swift and Chris Young.
JR's temper
It occurs to me that JR, watching his team blow a 9-0 lead, might have been thinking about his job (in)security and getting a little stressed. Presumably he doesn’t dwell on it in-game, but watching Lincoln get lit up would give him a little time to reflect….
if it was me, someone would have gotten a boot shoved up their ass in the clubhouse at some point in the game
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"He Twittered that pitch" Steve Blass
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Jul 21, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I am always open to trading anyone, based on what the return is. But, I just don’t think we are going to get much for Maholm that would make it worth the trade. Our biggest need is pitching, and I think we have a good number of pitching prospects (or will if we sign them). We could use real, major-league-ready pitchers next year, and if we trade maholm we will have dealt one of our few legit arms (sad as that is to say). Who would we fill our ration with that wouldn’t result in even more losses? The offense seems to be starting to look like a major league team, so even two mediocre free agent starters would help us do better next year.
Absolutely Correct
In addition, Hanrahan and Meek should also be considered borderline untouchable. They make a great back end of the bullpen combo that would be extremely hard to replicate.
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