Share your trade deadline wish list
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 26, 2010 12:20 AM EDT
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There are no wrong answers. This isn't meant to spark mean-spirited debate. It's meant to be fun and help consolidate some possible trade rumors into one place. Please try to be realistic (no "Dotel and Church to the Marlins for Josh Johnson and Hanley Ramirez or conversely no "Rudy Owens and Alex Presley for Roy Oswalt) but that can be loosely defined. That being said, although its dumb to ask trolls to stay away, I will. I will also ask that if you think someone's wish list isn't smart or has the best moves or doesn't fit our FO's Modus Operandi, etc. do NOT explain to them why they are stupid or not Pirate fans.
Oh, and you can choose for the Pirates to be sellers or buyers, either works. (Kinda cool to say that for the first time in years and it make at least some sense)
Without much further ado, my personal 2010 trade deadline wish list.
Paul Maholm + Octavio Dotel + Cash to the Dodgers for
Dee Gordon + Jerry Sands + Throw-ins
Joel Hanrahan + Cash to the Rangers for
Robbie Ross/Kasey Kiker (can't choose, if that's too much ask for Robbie Erlin) + Engel Beltre
Garrett Jones + Evan Meek to the Angels for
Tyler Chatwood + Fabio Martinez Mesa + Garrett Richards+ generic low low minors toolsy bat (think Walker Gourley or Wesley Freeman)
The above would make me super excited for 2013 (5 of the above players are in AA or higher)
Happy speculating!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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So far, my wish list consists of Dee Gordon. I have no other trades in mind, but trade Maholm and Dotel for Gordon.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 26, 2010 12:30 AM EDT reply actions
I might actually read what you say sometime if it isn’t in all capital letters.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 26, 2010 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Gordon isn't going to be a Punch&Judy hitter...
…once he finishes converting his tools into skills. Think Rafael Furcal.
I would rather
trade Dotel/Carrasco to the Yanks for their blocked SS prospect, Eduardo Nunez.
I'LL TAKE CEDENO OVER THIS STIFF
FROM THE YANKEESDAILY.COM
http://www.yankeesdaily.com/?p=12107
Defensively, Nunez has an outstanding arm that he doesn’t always seem to be able to harness. Whether it’s issues with footwork or just getting lazy on a few throws, errors have plagued him throughout his career, and last season was no different. Nunez’s 33 errors were good enough to earn him the Eastern League’s Pewter Glove… he led the league with his penchant for the E-6. Nunez likely needs to develop a bit of a better work ethic in the field as well, as for someone who clearly needs to improve defensively, I’d often see him not taking his time in the infield during batting practice as seriously as he should.
PLUS THE DUDE LOOKS LIKE SQUIDWARD FROM SPONGEBOB SQUAREPANTS.
From Scout....
“Eduardo Nunez, SS
.305, 3 HR, 40 RBI
Seven errors in 371 total chances at short
Word is he’ll be the No. 3 hitter for the IL. The Yankees have played him at third quite a bit lately, fueling speculation of a possible call-up. He’s already matched his walk total from 2009 and surpassed his walk total from ‘08. He has two additional errors at second and two more at third, but I’ve been told great things about the progress of his defense at shortstop. He made 33 errors there last season.”
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=303&f=1637&t=6070751&p=5
I know Cedeno has played decent ball recently, but this is a guy who is ready to come up to the bigs and looks like a decent prospect at SS. Part of the problem with the errors is that he’s being moved around. I say leave him at short and let him sink or swim. Probably won’t cost as much as Gordon and has a similar skill set.
I hate dealing for MLB-ready players.
Dave Littlefield would always want MLB-ready players in all of his trades. We have time to develop prospects, let’s not settle for a guy just because he could start tommorow.
But if the MLB ready player makes more sense than the prospect...
Nunez makes sense precisely because there’s nowhere to put him in the Majors for the Yankees. SS? Blocked by Jeter. 2B? Blocked by Cano. 3B? Blocked by A-Rod. 1B/OF? The bat won’t carry him.
It’s not that he’s not a prospect and is in AAA despite MLB readiness because he doesn’t figure to be a good player, like the guys Littlefield traded for. All the guys that he could play in front of are some of the very best in the Majors at their positions, so it makes zero sense for the Yankees to call him up. He’d be more valuable to them in a trade.
Also, SS is a major hole both in the Majors and throughout the organization. Getting a guy like Nunez, if he works out, plugs a hole for years to come. It would be nice to do those “possible future Pirates lineups” without putting “???” beside SS.
www.stealingfirstbase.com
by Nate Rose on Jul 26, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with the logic
but how does Nunez differ that much from Diaz, who we have at AAA. While a glove heavy SS is certainly valuable, his bat has to be something more than a toothpick.
I think we need to go hard after Gordon. I could be wrong about Nunez and will read up on him, but to me Gordon is it as far as a close to ML ready SS (AA or above) with an chance to be a major contributor with the bat.
You could argue we have a good candidate in D’Arnaud, but D’Arnaud is older, much less likely to start at short and has produced less in AA. Rather have Gordon and get him to the Majors by 2012 and let D’Arnaud take his time and be ready as a utility guy in 2013 and then ready to take Walker’s spot if things go wrong (since his glove plays better than according to projections)
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 26, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
SO DOES MY
ELDERLY GRANDMOTHER, SON. 
I RATHER ROLL THE DICE AND SEE IF CEDENO OR CHASE D’ARNAUD PAN OUT THAN TRADE ONE OF OUR SOLID MAJOR LEAGUERS FOR AN UNPROVEN “TOOLS GUY” THAT SCOUTS GET A BONER OVER.
ANYONE REMEMBER THE ACE SHORTSTOP PROSPECT WE GOT FROM TORONTO A FEW YEARS BACK? 
Personally, I'm skeptical...
…as to whether Nunez will hit enough to become a tolerable everyday player in MLB. As such, I don’t see him as a great trade target.
That said, it’s pretty much indisputable that he’s a better option than Diaz. Diaz has a lot of work ahead of him to even become a viable option as a UT IF. He’s far, far behind Nunez in terms of offensive skill.
but how does Nunez differ that much from Diaz, who we have at AAA.
Well, for one thing, Nunez is hitting .307/.360/.404 with 20 steals in AAA as compared to Diaz’s .255/.308/.293 with 4 steals.
www.stealingfirstbase.com
Exactly
Would be nice to have an option at short that actually has decent enough numbers to play on the ML roster. Also, and maybe more importantly, he could probably be had for less than the Dodgers Gordon, probably one of Dotel/Carrasco as the Yanks are looking for relief pitching. Diaz was a nice thought but I just don’t see him as MLB worthy. Just my opinion…..
fair enough
Still, both have reputations as glove first SS’s.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 27, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
ignore the stupid
’ for grammar reasons
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 27, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Gordon projects as an above-average starter.
Nunez doesn’t. That’s why Gordon would cost more: He’s a better prospect.
Release Ryan Church. Then...
Trade Dotel and Hanrahan for whatever they’ll bring. Keeping Dotel, in particular, is not acceptable.
Listen to offers on Maholm (and any other pitcher for that matter), but prefer to keep him over giving him away for a couple lottery tickets. Move him if someone offers an impact prospect.
Same for Garrett Jones.
For the love of God don’t acquire anybody that’s ever played in the major leagues before, and especially in the holy name of Cam Bonifay DON’T trade any Curve or Marauders for major league players.
I think that about covers it.
Curve or Marauders
depends on who it is… if we were to trade Owens/Wilson for a solid #3-#4 type (Maholm type essentially) with a few years of control, I d be fine with it. Really, the Pirates are in a weird position, its hard to say what is right to do, but NH and the FO need to take deals at face value and make a decision
That would we really, really pointless...
because that’s exactly what Owens and Wilson are.
Maybe so
But they’re not gonna be Buccos until June 2011 at the earliest. Besides Wilson has control problems at times while Owens can be hittable at time so like Lincoln there’s no guarantee they’ll be successful starting out
I wouldn’t mind seein either of the two be traded for a pitcher with at least 3 years of control remaining.
by BadAndy on Jul 26, 2010 7:12 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
well
that’s the prospect vs MLB player conundrum, isnt it? These guys are prospects, and there’s no saying what they’ll end up as. If you believe their ceiling is #3-4, then trading them for someone already established is perfectly fine!
by BurgherKing on Jul 26, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I've tried to come up with a wish list,
but prospect collecting vs. competing next year has me confused. I wish NH would say one way or the other, because I really don’t know which way to go.
I truly believe
They are a power RH bat and a top of the rotation pitcher away from competing. They need to rid themselves of Doumit and Duke. The cavalry (Tabata, Cutch, Pedro) is in place let’s go after it.
by BadAndy on Jul 26, 2010 7:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
There more then one starter away from contending.. There whole staff needs revamped..
I still also think this lineup lacks pop.
Not the whole staff,
but a lot of it.
If you take the #1 starter he mentioned, and add it to the rotation, we have:
1- Ace
2-
3- Maholm
4- Duke
5- Ohlendorf
Then we have Morris and Owens coming up next June, so we could even replace Duke and/or Ohlendorf.
Really, we need a #1 and a #2.
I actually agree 100%. I honesty believe that this team is a strong right handed bat and a legitimate front line starter away from being serious contenders. Problem for us is that we can’t acquire a front line starter. It’s out of the question. We have nothing to give in a trade and we won’t(or can’t, whichever you believe) spend the cash to acquire one this offseason.
For now, we’re gonna have to settle with a most suredly 19th losing but I can see the horizon.
I would say seriously they are about 3-5 years away from being good.. I know that sounds alot, but a team that is only “one arm” away from winning would be better then this team is currently.
Team still has holes up the middle, no catcher, has very little power, still Alvarez is a question mark defensively..
I did say an arm AND a strong right handed bat but I think you drastically underestimate how big a front line starter would be for this team. Guy like that would drastically change things around here. Problem though, again, is that a front line starter is, for all intents and purposes, unattainable.
I am not high up on guys like Maholm and Duke as some are.. To me, I think this staff within the next few years should have 5 new starters on it..
1- Taillion
2- Ownes
3- Morris
4- Adcock
5- Locke
How is he assuming
they will all make it. I see no Wilson and no Von Rosenberg. My biggest gripe with that is Owens at #2. No offense to Owens or Karl_Racki but Owens upside is such that if he’s our #2 starter, we are still in trouble.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 26, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Morris is a 2, Owens is a 3...
so really, he just has to switch the two.
But I don’t want to put too much faith into any of our minor league pitchers. There have been way too many Pirate pitchers that have found their way into James Andrews’ office.
I like Locke
over Owens.
Still, you are right. We shouldn’t count our chickens before they are hatched… or something.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 26, 2010 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been a fan of Paul Maholm for some time. He’s a solid option for a #2 guy in my honest opinion, real good #3 guy. I’m not a Zach Duke fan. He’s a #4 or #5 guy to me. The problem for us is that because we lack a legitimate front line starter, Duke and Maholm are expected to lead the rotation. Not add to it, lead it. The results of that speak for themselves. If we had a leader at the #1 spot, push Maholm and Duke and Ohlendorf down the chain a notch, we suddenly look a whole lot better. Maybe not “hand me the trophy Mr. Selig” good but much, much improved. Problem though, once more, is that this scenario is most certainly a dream.
by CutchFan on Jul 26, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like
how it’s spelled Ownes.
Hopefully that is prophetic (and I realise there’s a renegade ‘e’ in there)
by BlindSquirrel on Jul 26, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I see them as a SS and an entire pitching rotation away from competing. (OK, maybe not an ENTIRE staff…Maholm would be a solid #4.)
www.stealingfirstbase.com
Zach Duke at #5 isn't bad either,
he will eat innings, save the bullpen, have respectable starts. I’d put Maholm at #3 though.
So right now we have:
1-
2-
3- Maholm
4-
5- Duke
If we thought we could win next year, I’d like to see us trade for Zach Grienke, Fausto Carmona, and Edwin Jackson. I think we have enough prospects to complete the deals, although I would think Brad Lincoln would need to go for Grienke. If we could do that, a Grienke, Carmona, Maholm, Jackson, Duke rotation would probably be enough to chase the wild-card.
No way we can get Grienke
No offense but the rumor is Grienke to the Rays and that Hellickson or Jennings would have to be part of the deal or if he went to the Phillies, Dominic Brown (who Halladay couldn’t even fetch). Even if you step down from that considerably Sanchez is far from enough.
The only thing that may even come close is Sanchez, Morris, and Locke. Owens would probably have to be moved for either of Jackson and Carmona and the other would require Wilson. Then, you would probably have to give up 2-3 more of the following to complete the entire deal – Cunningham, D’Arnaud, Grossman, Adcock, Lorin, Presley. I think we’d get to keep Marte because his value is down and we wouldn’t move him.
Our system would be worse off than when NH inherited it, completely devoid of talent above high A… and for what, three pitchers, none of which have had outstanding years and only one that’s even a lock to make the staff next year. While I admire the effort and thought, I’ll pass.
Added note : I just saw where you added Lincoln in for Grienke. Rather than revise I’ll say it means we would get to keep probably 2 of Locke/Owens/Wilson or maybe 1 and 2 of Cunningham/Presley/Grossman/D’Arnaud etc. Still pretty freakin bare.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 26, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
It would leave our system pretty bare,
We would have a lot of talent that’s 3-5 years away, but nothing left for the short-term.
However, I don’t think anyone would mind a weak system if the MLB club is doing well, or at least .500. Trading for Jackson, Grienke, and Carmona would definitely put us at .500, it would just be a question of “is it possible”. I say it’s too far fetched, but it’s fun to speculate.
I'd much rather do what someone suggested below
Go after Young and Drew, and then add Jackson. If we do that I’d like to keep Lincoln (I still think he makes the rotation out of ST unless we significantly significantly upgrade it).
Something like Presley, Morris/Locke, Gorkys, D’Arnaud, and Grossman for those 3. Our lineup would be really good and our staff would get a bit better. Then go sign a 2/3 SP as a FA and hide our staff behind our bullpen and lineup.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 27, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Our system...
is almost devoid of talent above high A now. Morris/Owens/Wilson is about it. Position players, the cupboard is pretty much bare above Bradenton.
If your definition of a “respectable start” is Zach Duke’s 1.65 WHIP, then yeah, I guess Duke as a #5 isn’t bad.
www.stealingfirstbase.com
I think his .350 BABIP has something to do with that...
His xFIP of 4.25 is pretty solid, though, and would be good for a #5 starter.
An xFIP of 4.25...
…is much closer to #3 starter performance.
And yeah, using WHIP as a proxy for ability doesn’t work when you’re analyzing a high-BIP pitcher playing in front of a terrible defense.
Wish list...
1) A decent SS.
2) A catcher that can throw out a base stealer more than once a month.
3) A starting pitcher that can have an ERA under 4 in the majors.
4) One less zombie in the dugout.
I'd like to see
The Pirates trade Maholm to Dodgers for John Ely, Jerry Sands, and a PTBNL
by BadAndy on Jul 26, 2010 7:19 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
ok then
how bout ryan doumit for manny ramirez?
by the superduperstar!!!!!! on Jul 26, 2010 9:11 AM EDT reply actions
Wish List?
Trade Garrett Jones to Tampa Bay for Evan Longorio..
My wish list
Make the best possible trade for the long-term success of the team, regardless of fan opinion.
What I mean is: Don’t be afraid to trade anyone, if the return seems substantial, or an “overpayment”. For instance, if Evan Meek will bring us back an everyday shortstop that’s an upgrade of Ronny, and two B/C prospects, whereas Dotel will only bring us back one B/C prospect, move Meek!
Same with Maholm/Duke. Yes, we’d all prefer to see Maholm stay over Duke, but if the return for Maholm is substantially, otherworldly better than Duke, then by all means, trade Paul.
If we move Maholm, I feel we need to get an ML-capable rotation arm back as part of the package (James McDonald still stands out to me). If we move anyone else, the return becomes more open.
To me, if their names aren't...
…McCutchen, Alvarez, Tabata or Walker, then we’re open for business.
If we’re talking wishlist, then first and foremost, I’d love to see NH acquire a legitimate guy that can be plugged into the top of the rotation without, however, trading Maholm. I think that the hypothetical acquisition and Paul could make a great 1-2 punch at the top, while the bottom 3 get sorted out in the off-season. Rumor has it Edwin Jackson is available from Arizona and he may be the best option vis a vis price vs. return.
I read a rumor the other day that Huntington was calling about Fausto Carmona from the Indians, but that they want a heavy price in return. I’d be delighted to have Carmona, but not at a ridiculous cost.
Also, an actual MLB caliber catcher would be just dandy.
(First post here, so….hello to all!)
"'Tis a bird I love, with its brooding note, And the trembling throb in its mottled throat; There's a human look in its swelling breast, And the gentle curve of its lowly crest; And I often stop with the fear I feel-- He runs so close to the rapid wheel." Nathaniel Parker Willis, "The Belfrey Pigeon"
Just took a look at Jackson's stats
Good Lord, when did they take such a dive? Last I looked they were pretty respectable…
"'Tis a bird I love, with its brooding note, And the trembling throb in its mottled throat; There's a human look in its swelling breast, And the gentle curve of its lowly crest; And I often stop with the fear I feel-- He runs so close to the rapid wheel." Nathaniel Parker Willis, "The Belfrey Pigeon"
If the price was reasonable..
I wouldn’t be totally opposed to buying low on Jackson.
The problem is, Arizona is in rebuilding mode too, so I’m not sure what we’d have to offer.
I’d be willing to trade Justin Wilson to take a flier on Jackson. Particularly if we’re trading Maholm in a corresponding move.
Justin Wilson
His value is probably the highest it will be. He has nearly 9 K/9, an ERA just above 3, and has shown decent command throughout the season. If I were NH, I would sell high on Wilson, because I can’t picture him as anything other than a #4 or #5 starter.
We could use him in a trade to get a better prospect, or someone like Edwin Jackson, but I really don’t think his value will be any higher.
To clarify . . .
why do you think his value has peaked (and I infer that to mean you think it will fall in the near future).? He has a good K rate, excellent HR rate and had greatly improved his BB rate. He’s 22 (just about to turn 23) and in AA. He seems like a legit prospect to me, and I would rate him on par with Morris and a little bit better than Owens.
Exactly,
There have been no flaws so far in his pro career. He has been very quietly effective, and doesn’t overpower any hitter. I just don’t think he can perform this well in AAA or the majors.
If you look purely at his stats, he looks like a #2 or 3 starter, but I don’t think he has ever really been considered anything better than a #4.
Well . . .
are you basing this belief because he hasn’t been “considered” anything better than a #4, or you have scene scouting reports suggesting as much? I’m not being fesicious, one blindspot I have is scouting reports because I really don’t know where to find them besides the garden variety you get from national prospect publications.
Wilson has always had a solid
scouting report coming out of college (where he won the college world series). His report has read “solidly” though as an extreme groundball pitcher and as such he looked to be more of a #5 starter or middle or long relief option. The boost in missing bats is what has made his prospect status jump. Are those numbers sustainable by his stuff. I would say “yes”, but only time would tell and its still a risky proposal (that he becomes a #2 or #3 guy).
That’s my limited take on Wilson at least.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 26, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
But I mean, what is his stuff . . .
the groundball rate and biographical info is all easily ascertainable. The only thing I hear regarding his stuff was that he sat around 90 with his fastball, which, while not a +, isn’t a minus either because he’s lefty and they generally get by with less velocity.
I don’t know what type/how good his breaking stuff is, how his change up is, what type of movement his fastball has, etc. Hell, I don’t even know if that velocity I stated above is accurate. He could throw 85 or 95 for all I know.
I read report that said he throws his fastball 89-93.
Probably sits 90-91 and touches 93. Pretty good for a lefty with a ton of movement. I personally like Wilson a lot. I’d take him over Owens at this point.
And it's supposedly
a ton of movement, with very good sink. I don’t really know much about his offspeed deliveries but it wasn’t like he came out of nowhere is my point. He was a top 5 round draft pick for us in 2008.
Courtsey of pirateprospects.com (old buccofans.com)
Wilson has a good mixture of pitches, and while he won’t overpower hitters, his arsenal can be mixed up in order to beat opponents. Wilson’s fastball hits in the 87-93 MPH range, and in his playoff performance against Salem he was consistently hitting 92-93 MPH. He has a big breaking curveball that could be a plus pitch, and added a sharp slider in 2008 that he uses as a changeup. He also was scheduled to add a two seam fastball to the mix in the Florida Instructional League after the season, which should help to disguise his breaking pitches by adding another pitch with some movement.
Wilson’s success will largely depend on the command of his pitches, most notably his fastball. Wilson pounds the strike zone, aggressively challenging hitters. His stuff won’t overpower hitters, so he has to use better command to stay ahead in the count, and rely on deception with his breaking pitches to beat hitters. He also needs to keep the walk rate low, and produce a high ground ball ratio to get easy outs. Wilson did well in the latter category, with a 49.6 percent ground ball ratio in 2009, which is well above average.
Reading from that he has at least three pitches that could in the future include two plus offerings (I’m assuming his fastball could/will be a plus ML pitch due to sink and movement – backed up by GO/AO stats)
The stuff is there and he’s countinuing to miss bats at a high level (he did well in A+ last year) What’s holding him back to a degree is his command. That will probably be the difference between a 4/5 and 2/3, assuming it doesn’t keep him out of the bigs entirely.
Concluding, the stuff supports the numbers and the numbers support the stuff. Those numbers are great except the walks.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 27, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Wilson has a lot of movement.
That was actually the problem for him in college – his stuff moved too much and broke out of the zone.
The walks are down this year.
I think he is headed in the right direction. That said he did walks 6 in 2 1/3 in his last start. Let’s hope that was a freak occurrence.
Down this year compared to what?
If im doing my math right
2009 – BB/9 = 4.27
2010 – BB/9 = 4.14
A slight drop, but not really worth noting over 100 IP each year.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 27, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, last time I checked...
they were 3.7 which was noticeable improvement. Like I said he had 6 BB in 2 1/3 innings last outing so that has skewed the numbers a bit. But not to be a total smart ass, 4.14 is better than 4.27!!!
also if I remember right
he had a horrid start in AA with 7+ BB/9 in April, then 3.2 and 2.8 BB/9 in May and June, before going to 5.6 in July in 19.3 IP of which 6 came in 2.3IP.
He def showed a very positive trend before that last outing.
Yes yes
4.14 is better than 4.27 lol, but I’d argue the difference is negligible.
The trends are positive though, even if he’s regressed a bit. Let’s just keep our fingers crossed for more improvement.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 27, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
A big money extension for Perry Hill. Get Alvarez, Walker, and Jones some help over here. Even if Alvarez is moved to first base in the next couple years, he still could use a lot of work.
the whole team needs work
Perry Hill made a difference last season but his departure was messy and that bridge between him and Bucs have been burned to the ground.
by BadAndy on Jul 26, 2010 5:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
a 3 team trade involving the Phillies Angels and buccos
Angels get Jayson Werth, and Octavio Dotel
Phillies get… Garret Jones, Trevor Bell SP(LAA) Peter Bourjos OF (LAA), and prospects
Pirates get…J.A Happ(PHIL), Mark Trumbo(LAA) and a prospect
Idk may need some work lol
Can't see it..
Could be on the right track.. Send Haren to Philly..Jones to Ahm.. Pirates get another prospect.
Ugh.
Just IMO.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 26, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
OVERRATED?
How.. He is a bit older, but still has looked pretty good thus far in the bigs..
How.. He is a bit older, but still has looked pretty good thus far in the bigs..He had a 1,23 WHIP last year which isn’t bad…
Zach Duke had a 1.20 WHIP in his rookie season at a younger age and with similar stuff to Happ.
Happ isn’t “a bit older.” He’s 27. That’s way too old to be just carving out a name for yourself in the bigs.
He doesn’t strike anybody out, he walks too many guys for my liking. His FIP last year was 4.33, a far cry from his 2.93 ERA. Last year was a fluke.
I’m not saying Happ is a BAD pitcher. I’m just saying if we’re giving up Jones and Dotel, I don’t want him as the centerpiece of the deal.
www.stealingfirstbase.com
Dotel
if you think Happ is a 4.33 true talent pitcher, I d take him for Dotel straight up. Wouldn’t you?
More like a 4.5, per xFIP.
And you can’t ignore the fact that he missed most of the year with elbow pain. That’s a huge red flag.
That’d be a decent deal on book value, but there are other guys out there that I like better, who we could probably get instead.
I should also note...
…that I don’t really like Trumbo, either. His raw #s are inflated by playing in Salt Lake.
oh wait
I just realized you meant a package of Jones and Dotel – my bad… I thought of it as either of them…
Call me crazy
But I’d love to see them acquire Chris Young, right handed power bat who could handle LF at PNC with ease. I doubt ARI would give him up, but if they truly are in salary dump mode, there’s a chance
I'd trade Gorkys, Adcock, and D'Arnaud
for Chris Young and Stephen Drew. That addresses our need for righty power-bat, and a desperate need for a SS.
Well, I wouldn't do that if I were them...
…but after the Haren debacle it’s tough to say what they would or wouldn’t do with any degree of confidence.
Gonna take more than that IMO
Owens/Wilson instead of Adcock and that may not be enough. Still, its an interesting idea.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 27, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Still..
Don’t think Zona would do it.. Owens might be ok, but to me Hernandez sucks. He has no bat what so ever.. I am not sure he will ever be a Major Leaguer.
Chris Young is a 26 year old power hitter who will continue to get better. Drew IMO isn’t much.
#1
I really would like us to somehow get Carmona from Cleveland, power arm, pitching well, and he’s still only 26. Our supposed ace in the making Brad Lincoln is already 25 and is extremely hittable, and it might be a bit rash but I wouldn’t mind giving him up in a deal if we had to.
your username is hilarious
in spite of the similarity to the erroneous spellings of Tabata! I am imagining the love child of Sabathia and Tabata play baseball!
by BurgherKing on Jul 26, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Reported the Rangers are looking for a
1B.
See if Jones + Hanrahan = Perez? Somehow?
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 27, 2010 10:34 PM EDT reply actions
thats too much for me to give up for Martin Perez
hes been good in the minors but we def would need alot more coming back in my opinion
Perez + Beltre + throw-ins?
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 28, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Teach him
to switch hit real fast?
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 28, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
would anyone do
Hanrahan and Maholm to Yankees for Joba Chamberlain, Jesus Montero, Eduardo Nunez and Andrew Brackman
Uh yes
everyone… but the Yankees. I think people forget how good Montero is. Even though he’s literally useless with a glove his upside is Miguel Cabrera, who may be the best pure hitter in the game right now.. and that’s not “oh if he gets zapped with superpowers allowing him to slow down time” upside, that’s legitimate, expected upside.
The ONLY reasons we could even dream of getting him is two-fold
1.) The Yankees, even with their new philosophy as far as player development etc, can and will buy wins. It’s a dumb strategy if you don’t have seemingly unlimited resources, but they do (at least for now) have such resources and so why wait on the guy who can be good 3 years from now, especially since we can just trade back for him (interesting study I’ve always wondered on how many times the Yankees (and you can add other big market teams if you want) have traded for their own former farmhands. It’s like "here, hold our player for a while, develop him, pay him, and when we want him back we’ll give you a new one to train, thanks for the guy you just gave us back, he should help us in the pennant race. It’s theoretically genius)
2) His star has dimmed slightly, but not much. Still, I’m not sure Maholm and Hanrahan alone are enough for Montero (never mind that you "don’t’ trade 2 vets for 1 prospect). If you want Joba and Nunez and even a warm body as well… well good luck.
Still, I hope you’re right!
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 28, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
lol wow just imagine the lineup in a year or 2...Move Montero to 1B
1. J. Tabata LF
2. N. Walker 2B
3. A. McCutchen CF
4. P. Alvarez 3B
5. J. Montero 1B *
6. T. Sanchez C
7. L. Milledge LF
8. E. Nunez SS *
And we Would definitely turn Joba back into a SP lol if the buccos could pull of that trade…Damn lol
Ya, sorry
if I came across as mean.
I imagine that’s a 1 for 1 swap and even though Maholm + Hanrahan are worth more than Soria, it’s not enough to get us Joba, Nunez, and Brackman. Maybe could do a two for two (with complete throw-ins) and offer Maholm + Hanrahan for Montero and Nunez, but my question is are the Yankees even looking for SP.
I know they are were trying to get Lee and Haren and still are trying to get Oswalt, but Maholm isn’t close to that level and they may have a in-house go who can do what Maholm can do but isn’t an elite SP (on the level of Lee, Haren, and Oswalt)
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 28, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
FWIW, since Dee Gordon was mentioned earlier in the thread:
Jayson Stark is saying (on Twitter – blech!) that the Dodgers are indicating that they won’t trade Gordon for anything or anybody.
Interesting
That kinda sucks, but I think a deal will still get done by them for someone like Maholm or Lilly, but I guess Gordon won’t be involved.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 28, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Gordon
What would he do for us? We have Cedano and he is a better pro right now, we have Holt in A ball, and he can hit, Gordon is in AA ball. We need starting pitching more than we need Gordon.
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