Ryan Doumit's Fielding Woes Undo James McDonald's Second Start
by Charlie Wilmoth on Aug 12, 2010 3:40 AM EDT
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PrintI went down to PETCO tonight to see James McDonald pitch and, as I'm sure was perfectly clear to those of you watching tonight at home, he wasn't especially sharp. His breaking pitch still looked pretty good (though he had some trouble controlling it), but his velocity appeared to be down a bit from his first start and I didn't see as many unhittable changeups (which maybe had something to do with the fastball velocity). He still piled up strikeouts, which is great, but he needed about eighty million pitches to get through the first inning, putting the Pirates in a tough situation later on.
Like a lot of pitchers, McDonald loses velocity over the course of an outing. If his fastball velocity drops from 96-97 to 92-93, like it did in his first start, that might not be such a big deal. But PETCO's gun tonight had his velocity dropping from 95 to 91. Maybe some of that is just a difference in radar guns. But I was still surprised that John Russell let McDonald pitch so long. True, McDonald hadn't gotten through five innings yet, but he already looked gassed to me by the time the fifth rolled around, and he ended up throwing 108 pitches and having all kinds of problems in his last frame.
UPDATE: It looks like this was just a difference in the radar guns. Brooks Baseball shows that McDonald's fastball velocity was pretty much identical to what it was in his first start. His pattern of losing velocity as the game goes on, however, is present in both starts.
* * *
Of course, McDonald got no help from Ryan Doumit, who, while playing outfield for some reason, looked like a deer in headlights while letting a ball fall in front of him with two outs. At the time, it looked to me like a conservative play by a guy who doesn't really know what he's doing, which kind of makes sense if you're Ryan Doumit and you know you can't really play outfield. It would indeed have been worse if he tried to dive for it and missed. But I think most good outfielders would have gotten to that ball. That turned out to be pretty important, since a catch would have ended the inning and the Padres ended up scoring three runs.
After that, the parade of bad relievers began - first Sean Gallagher, then Chan Ho Park. By the end of the sixth, I was mad at myself for even deciding to come to the game, as Kevin Correia was pitching a one-hitter. The Pirates did manage to string some singles together in the seventh inning, and it even looked possible that they'd come back, but they didn't. Oh well.
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The Doumit in RF experiment was good for a few innings, but it should probably come to an end after yesterday’s contest, where he didn’t even try for that can of corn in the 5th inning. Especially when we’re trying to develop young pitchers like McDonald.
Andrew McCutchen continues his disappointing play in the 2nd half, not doing much at the plate and badly misplaying a ball to right-center in the 6th.
Unlike Doumit, Cutch at least hustles and has hit well overall for the year. But there is cause for concern for McCutchen, at least on defense (see some recent fanposts for details).
Cutch looks frustrated. Perhaps with himself, perhaps with the team. What they are going through is very tough for a group of young guys who probably never experienced losing over and over again with any team in any sport on any level.
Doumit will be below to well below average in any position on the field. He is not part of a winning future for the Pirates. Hopefully an AL team can use him as a DH.
No AL team...
…is going to trade for a player with a non-elite bat in the expectation of making him a DH. It’s not going to happen. Put it out of your head.
They might, however, trade for him if they see him as a viable C, 1B, or OF. Which is why we need to give him more reps in the field, rather than just trying to push him under the rug.
Doumit’s bat isn’t good enough to justift the 1B/OF reps. The production has been poor since a couple of years ago.
Probably we’re going to have to eat the contract or stash him on the bench if he keeps getting exposed in the OF, and if he acts like a baby because he lost his starting job on merit, and doesn’t even try for easy flies like in the 5th.
by Adam Reynolds on Aug 12, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
His bat is strong enough...
…to be a perfectly adequate starting 1B/OF.
He doesn’t have star-level upside there the way he does as a catcher, though.
How is his bat 'perfectly adequate'.....
while you are of the opinion that Jones’ is clearly below-average, among other choice words you have for him? I just don’t see any consistency from you regarding those two…..
FWIW, I don’t think either’s bat is good enough for 1B, while Jones’ is average for RF, and, he can actually field the position, albeit not great, but much better than Doumit.
by CabreraKilledMyChildhood on Aug 12, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
It must be age...
Or, wait, maybe it’s contract…
Oh, I know, it’s the defense…
Hmm, must be something.
If we didn't have 3-4 better choices
at 1B and RF, then I would be fine with running Doumit out there for awhile. It may well be that he could recover his 2008 form in a less demanding position, and maybe he could learn to play RF just a little bit worse than the 3rd- or 4th-best RF we have in Pittsburgh or Indy.
But the reality is that Jones and Milledge almost certainly are more valuable than Doumit, and there’s a decent chance that any of Pearce, Clement, Bowker, or Moss could be as well. I understand the desire to build trade value, but let’s not pretend that this shit sandwich is delicious.
None of those guys are going to play 162 games.
If we can get Doumit to the point where he can play 1B and OF tolerably, then we can use Doumit at 1B and in the OF rather than giving those starts to a guy like Church or Young.
As long as he's here
He’ll start more than Church or Young (who’s started all of 23 games this year, 7 on an emergency basis for Andy).
They’ll keep running him out there 3-4 times a week until he’s traded or proves that he can’t possibly play anywhere (which I don’t think will happen). He may take a handful of starts away from Young, but otherwise his starts are coming from younger and/or better players.
Look, as I said, I know why they’re doing it. I just won’t buy that it’s helping the team on the field. It will, hopefully, help the team next year by making him tradable.
There's no inconsistency...
…between saying that someone is a “perfectly adequate” starter and saying that they’re a “below-average” starter. There are 30 teams in MLB – and even if the talent is distributed totally optimally, half of those teams are going to have below-average starters. That’s how average works. If a guy is the 20th-best starter at his position in MLB, then he’s a below-average starter… but he still deserves to be starting for someone, because he’s better than the best that ten other teams have to offer.
Also, you want to move Pedro Alvarez off 3rdt, but Doumit in RF is fine.
by Adam Reynolds on Aug 12, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I've seen Pedro at 3B for several years now.
I’m confident that he’s not getting any better with the glove, even if you leave him there until doomsday.
Over the last three years, I can count Doumit’s games in the OF on one hand. Yes, he’s fairly rough now, but we don’t have any evidence at this point as to whether he can improve with work and experience or not. So I’d like to go out and get some, in order for us to make the most informed decision possible for 2011, roster-wise.
Jones isn’t avearge offensively for right field, either. Team needs .800 OPS bats at right-hand corners as much as pitching.
by Adam Reynolds on Aug 12, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
According to Fangraphs, his wOBA would rank 28th in right field (minimum 300 plate appearances) and 21st in left field, unless I counted wrong. Just for the record.
by Adam Reynolds on Aug 12, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I didnt watch the game yday live
although i was following BD on my phone and the scores… but I went back and watched that play! Dear Lord! He stood there an eternity! The SD commentators said something like, he could have caught it on his way to the dugout!!!
His velo was fine.....
It was his lack of control, primarily with his secondary pitches (he had better control on the curve as the game went on, just like last start).
Also, w/r/t to his change, the Padres refused to swing at it, unlike the Rockies who were flailing all game. I hate the cliche, ‘tip your cap’, but, that is the case with the Padres approach last night.
Hopefully, someone will post the PitchFX graph, as I presume it will show that this ‘drop in velocity’ was more perception than reality.
But, the narrative has been set. Hopefully, facts will erase it.
by CabreraKilledMyChildhood on Aug 12, 2010 8:13 AM EDT reply actions
*Velo charts....
And, fwiw, I believe the charts will say he averaged, right around his average, 93 mph. For the first 4 innings (roughly 80 pitches), I would say he was sitting comfortably at 93, touching 95 with some regularity, and, then, the 5th inning, I would say he was still sitting 92-93, without showing the ability (or perhaps ‘want to’ if you read the PG quotes from McDonald regarding not wanting to hurt himself) to hit his top-end (95 mph).
I think the secondary control, and the approach of the Rockies, both contributed to his lack of efficiency…..with his inefficiency much more of the issue than his ‘drop’ in velo.
by CabreraKilledMyChildhood on Aug 12, 2010 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions
The drop in his FB speed was evident in his first start at PNC last week. He has the look of a good middle of the rotation type guy. Strike out totals were impressive for not being as sharp as last week. With another half dozen starts between now and the end of the season management can get some idea of what they can work on headed into next spring.
McDonald needs to develop another pitching strategy...
…for those innings when he has tired. Developing a slider or cutter might help him in this regard. It would give him secondary pitch with movement he could use to set up his curve and change and fastball. Besides that, he needs better pitch command. With that he can strike out batters while not going too deep in counts.
Steve Z
McDonald
All that being said, I’d still rather watch him than Zach Duke and his 86 mph heat.
Definitely better than a bad Duke or Maholm start. He got a lot of his outs by Ks and was inefficient, but a pitcher almost has to get a lot of outs by strikeout on this team given the defensive disasters we’re playing out of position these days.
by Adam Reynolds on Aug 12, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Sean Gallagher needs to be DFA'd....
Not only is his control really, really awful…..his velo and stuff betray the type of reputation he used to have when he was a prospect.
I don’t see any encouraging signs out of him. Park, as well, but everyone kind of already knew that.
I understand constructing a bullpen, mid-season, is difficult….but, I would much rather take my lumps with younger/more interesting guys than Gallagher and Park.
It was worth the try, but the attempt has not worked. Let’s try something (and someone) else…
by CabreraKilledMyChildhood on Aug 12, 2010 10:01 AM EDT reply actions
I get your point...
but who are these younger, more interesting guys you refer to? The alternative is likely Jackson and Thomas again and I’ve seen enough of them to know they aren’t part of the future. Everyone that deserves, or is ready, to be in Pittsburgh is there. I have no problem with running those two out there the rest of the season. Though to your point, I thought Gallagher’s stuff would play up better in the pen than it has.
Yep - you are probably right....
And, Thomas and Jackson deserve no shot to be at the Major League level.
This is scary me saying this: But, I would have rather JR went to No Relation last night when he gave JMac the hook rather than Gallagher. I simply don’t trust Gallagher to get the ball over the plate, especially in high-leverage situations.
No Relation, while possessing borderline Triple-A stuff, usually (but by no means all the time by evidence of his BB/K totals) at least challenges them to hit the ball. While they usually do – hard – I hate BBs, which is why I thought getting rid of Lopez was of no consequence to our team.
by CabreraKilledMyChildhood on Aug 12, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I think
Gallagher’s three inning outing against Colorado when Ohlie got hurt has earned him a deservedly long lease. No question his command is terrible. But his stuff is good enough. We’ve seen Meek and Veal overcome bad command (obviously less so in Veal’s case). I have no problem trotting him out for 25 more innings this season. He isn’t taking anyone else’s innings or slowing their development. Very little downside. Same with Resop. If someone goes it should be Park. But, really why look to get rid of guys with the call up date within three weeks and no one being blocked.
www.thehammerspeaks.com
Resop has looked real good in his limited time here.
A nice surprise. Seems to me he only has two pitches though. Can anyone confirm that. If that’s true his future is likely in the pen but he looks like he could be reliable there.
2 pitches.....
With his breaking ball being rather fringy. He does, however, seem to have solid command/placement of his fastball, which, is necessary due to it having little movement.
I like his competitiveness as well. Intangible and tough to measure, true. But, I do like it nonetheless.
by CabreraKilledMyChildhood on Aug 12, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
No relation has been earning some higher leverage looks...
with his last couple of outings for sure.
*facepalm*
Gallagher’s control was really awful when we got him. It should not come as a surprise that it is still awful. Particularly insofar as a lack of consistent reps was what had allowed his delivery to get out of whack in the first place, and he’s been used sporadically as a mopup man since coming here, rather than in a role that might actually allow him to get back on track.
Gallagher does not have the abilities necessary to be a good reliever. He does have the abilities necessary to be at least a decent starter, but we are not using him in a way that will allow him to get there. Which is a shame, and a waste.
It’s a shame the Cubs brought up Gallagher too early and used all his options, basically making him organizational filler at age 24. That shouldn’t really be our problem, though. Put him through waivers and see if he can get to Triple-A.
by Adam Reynolds on Aug 12, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Have to agree there
It isn’t as if people will be lining up to claim Gallagher after blowing out with two clubs this year. He needs starter reps if he is ever going to be useful and he can’t get those right now.
http://bleedblackandgold.com/
by Say Hey Johnny Ray on Aug 12, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
As I suspected....
Velocity was no issue, as it was essentially the same as last week, with little drop-off as the game wore on.
by CabreraKilledMyChildhood on Aug 12, 2010 10:06 AM EDT reply actions
Damn it....I am having trouble linking it.
But, his PitchFX is now available. Maybe someone can help me out?
Pat at WHYGAVS has it up….
by CabreraKilledMyChildhood on Aug 12, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Well he definitely lost some velo in the 5th...
he was gassed and it was evident. I don’t expect that to be an issue going forward as he gets some more starts but I don’t think it is fair to say that velocity was “NO” issue. He should have been out of the inning with littel to no damage but anytime you lose a couple mph it is an issue. It just should not have stopped McDonald from getting out of the inning.
Check his velo chart, Slick....
The perception is not the reality as it relates to maintaining his speed.
He averaged 93 mph, just as his average and last start were. In the 5th, after 90-100 pitches, he was still sitting, somewhat comfortably, at 92-93, exactly where he was in the first few innings. The difference was that he wasn’t touching 95 like he did in the first few innings.
But, it wasn’t as if his average dropped 2-3 MPH.
by CabreraKilledMyChildhood on Aug 12, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Fangraphs?
I will when I get a chance. Anyway, I assumed you meant he averaged 93 mph for the game and not the inning. I got a little lazy but watching the game I remember him hitting 91 mph a lot in the 5th.
I looked at the graph
What stands out most is that, after the middle of the 4th, he never again was able to throw the heat he was achieving effortlessly throughout his first ~70 pitches. 13 of his first ~70 pitches hit 94 or above; after that, he only hit 93 4 more times in his final 35 pitches, peeking above 92 another 3 times. He went from a 20 mph separation between his FB and CU down to 18 or even 16 (it’s not as if he can consciously slow down his change to match his flagging FB, although that would be a useful skill).
But anyway, it was clearly a problem mostly with offspeed command – the loss of speed is simply the reason that he couldn’t rescue himself after Doumit’s failure. It is very frustrating that he goes from a second outing in which he overcomes not-so-great stuff (or command) for an adequate performance to getting shelled all because of the entirely non-baseball decision to play Doumit in RF.
Fastball velo is definitely a pattern
He only touched 93 twice after pitch 70 on his last start as well.
http://bleedblackandgold.com/
by Say Hey Johnny Ray on Aug 12, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
There you go
Hopefully that’s just a training issue for a guy who was essentially unused for a month or two. A little lost velocity is to be expected, but he can’t be dropping off 2/3 of the way through his starts and expect to reliably get us through 6+, not unless his curve becomes more reliable or he develops another pitch with movement.
My observation...
McDonald was fine last night. Velocity was not as much an issue as was conditioning. He clearly ran out of gas in the 5th. The Doumit play was HUGE because that would have gotten a tiring McDonald out of the inning. His pitches looked as good to me as they did the week before. The big difference was that the Padres were much more disciplined. They laid off of that changeup that starts in the zone than dives out at the last minute. There were at least two batters that laid off that pitch with two strikes and I was completely surprised because it looked like a tough pitch to lay off. Anyway, some credit needs to go to the Padres because the made McDonald work. I think McDonald will be fine as he gets more experience.
I tend to agree
Also, perhaps, we’ll look back on a start like this and say that Mickie D had an off-night. All told, it wasn’t horrible (save for Doumit’s foolywang out there in right), and if this is considered a subpar performance, then that’s pretty encouraging. Bottom line is he needs more seasoning before we know what kind of pitcher he is.
Agreed on the Padres approach.....
Especially the top of the order and Gonzales.
by CabreraKilledMyChildhood on Aug 12, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Adjusting will be the key for him.
Smart teams will do what the Padres did last night – lay off the breaking stuff until he can throw it for a strike. It amazed me what hitters were swinging at in his first start. He will have to be able to get the change and curve over for strikes on those nights or he will have to rely on his fastball more if he can’t. There will be teams that can’t help themselves – they will swing at the chase pitches. But when they don’t, he will have to command the #2 and #3 pitch better.
Fortunately there really aren’t many teams who play smarter ball than the Padres.
http://bleedblackandgold.com/
by Say Hey Johnny Ray on Aug 12, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I must chime in...
When Big MaK had a bad day, he still K’d a good amount and it took a bad defensive lapse to pile on his runs. When the others have a bad day…damn, it’s easier than batting practice.
by ryebr3ad on Aug 12, 2010 10:59 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
A couple of thoughts....
I agree that no AL team would have an interest in Doumit as a DH (and I don’t know why so many people make that suggestion – actually, I know why, because he can’t play anywhere anymore.) But Doumit has minimal power and too low of a batting average for any team to want him in that capacity.
Gallagher, Park, and the relievers: I agree that the Pirates should just keep running them out there. I know some are concerned about the psyche of the starters losing leads, but at this point in the season, you might as well run out what you’ve got. And this may sound a bit callous, but I would ESPECIALLY run them out there if you don’t plan on them coming back. Park, for instance. If you’re going to burn up an arm with a very heavy workload for the last couple of months, make it someone like Park, who won’t be back. (And actually it will help Park because he can show other teams that he can still pitch.) If I’m going to ruin an arm and risk an injury to a reliever, I’d rather it be Park, then push Hanrahan or Meek to getting 100+ innings or throwing a Moskos in there, when he obviously needs some more time in the minors (though, hopefully Moskos will make a push to make the Pirates out of spring training next year.)
by impliedi on Aug 12, 2010 11:20 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Doumit
Continuing with Doumit…. If Ryan could just find ONE position where he is at least half-way competent…he wouldn’t be a half-bad guy to have on the bench for just about any team as a back-up catcher and 1st base or outfield. However, if he can’t play the outfield or 1st (early signs haven’t been promising), then obviously the only thing left for him in baseball is as a back-up catcher somewhere.
Has anyone heard if Doumit has given any indication as to why his defense has dropped off so dramatically this year?? I would have to suspect he’s got some injury (perhaps his back or something) that he’s not telling anyone about because he’s been trying so hard to break the “injury-prone” tag. If that were the case, then maybe, just maybe he comes back next year as his old self. Although I imagine that if the Pirates even suspected something like that they make him take another physical or something and they don’t go out and get Snyder (although maybe they do anyway because they’ve lost confidence in his abilities anyway). Or perhaps, he’s just gotten really bad really quickly. I just don’t ever remember seeing someone lose their skills so fast before. He was never a Gold Glover, but man, he doesn’t stop anything or throw anyone out anymore!
by impliedi on Aug 12, 2010 11:37 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Doumit is a Run-Scoring-Machine for the other team!
In the span of his last 3 starts, we saw Doumit:
Get a balk called on himself for picking up the ball with his mask
Catch the last 2 innings of one game and get us blown out, get us blown out in next game catching
Stand and watch a ball drop in front of him, instead of trying to catch the 3rd out, and open the floodgates/get his pitcher run
Someone wrote last night that Doumit would even find a way to get an error even if he was only DHing! And its all true. BUT, my opinion is that its an organizational decision to try to rehabilite his usefulness during August so they can have a chance to unload his contract to some gullible GM.
by BucsFaninCA on Aug 12, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I made the crack about him
But i gotta say, if there ever were a time to try—TRY—to get his value up, this is it, when the games are far less important than individual improvements. Sure, it hurt to watch that flyball drop to tack on some cheap runs for James. But maybe the coaching staff can spin it so that James uses it to get better, or as a way to move past things beyond his control.
Also, i dare say it’s almost ironic what’s happened to Doumit. Wasn’t it just last year or the year before where he was tired of seeing all the trades diminish the quality of the team taking the field? Now, it seems, the quality of the Pirates diminishes any time HE takes the field. oh well.
Doumit's quote from last year is now MUCH MORE REVEALING!
When Doumit said he was tired of seeing all the trades diminish the quality, what he really meant was:
“When average players get traded, it EXPOSES ME for being the bad catcher and mediocre hitter that I am.”
McDonald
Really not nearly as sharp?
I will admit that he wasn’t as dominant as his first start, but c’mon. If not for a badly misplayed ball by Doumit which has been well documented on here he would have had a pretty good looking line once again, with the exception that he would only go 5 innings. Velo was right where it was in the first start for the most part.
I had a feeling there would be reaction like this after the fifth inning. To be totally honest he deserved a much better fate than this. This did nothing imo to diminish what he did in his first start, and, if anything affirmed for me that he can be that no. 1 or 2 starter that the pirates desperately need. Yes he will have to prove it over a period of time, but let’s not go jumping off any bridges here.
Agreed.....
His velo chart shows practically no difference from last start, he was an out away from getting through 5 IP with no ERs, and he K’d 6 to only walking one.
He wasn’t nearly as efficient, but, again, a good bit of that was directly attributable to the Padres and their approach. They laid off some very good change-ups and some borderline fastballs on the outer half. JMac reaffirmed his potential from the first start….I agree.
by CabreraKilledMyChildhood on Aug 12, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
McDonald
Didn’t get to see the game last night (as I’m on vacation), so I’ve been reading a lot about it and it’s funny that everyone has made it pretty clear about Doumit not making an effort for the ball pretty much cost the Pirates and McDonald the game EXCEPT for Chuck Finder’s game story in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. In fact he never once mentions the Doumit play and points to a bad night for McDonald as the culprit for the bad night. It’s sad when the beat writer (I know he’s just the back-up. but still) for the main paper in Pittsburgh totally misrepresents the game to the public, by failing to acknowledge the main turning point. Luckily I had read other accounts of the game first. But I can then understand why some would be disappointed in McDonald if they are going by game analysis online or the newspaper. Or maybe they watched the game and, like Mr. Finder, failed to note the significance of the play.
by impliedi on Aug 12, 2010 11:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Oops.....
Went back to re-read Finder’s article and now there is something about Doumit in there, must have been updated since the first time I read it early this morning.
by impliedi on Aug 12, 2010 11:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I thought so
Glad you checked.
Both beat guys (usually) submit 2 long-form stories, sometimes nearly identical, sometimes significantly rewritten based on lockerroom quotes or just second thoughts. But whatever they’ve been typing up during the game usually goes out before they even visit the clubhouse.
I saw the play from behind the plate, probably not far from where Finder saw it, and I didn’t attach a great deal of significance to it at the time. It just looked like a conservative play and a good outfielder might have gotten to it, but an average one might not have. My buddy was sitting in the outfield, though, and he was furious. I checked the replay when I got home and he was right. I’m not sure I fault Finder too much for not having that in his story initially.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Aug 12, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
one related comment
In the past, even earlier this year, I’ve had the distinct feeling whenever we are down by 3 or more in around the 5th inning or after, I never felt like we had a chance… I remember having said so on the gamethreads as well…
It’s refreshing to me that I don’t feel that way now even when we are down by 7 in the 6th. It feels like we could come back, although I do mentally count the number of ABs left for the top of the order. It’s a pity that the bottom is such a lot of suck, because otherwise we might have had better shots… ofc the bullpen now doesnt help much…
Why is everybody bitching about Doumit in the OF?
Except for one game last year, this is his first game action at the position since 2007. Did you think he was going to immediately start gliding around on the grass like Baryshnikov?
Getting stupid plays like last night’s out of the way is the whole reason we’re using him in the outfield in the first place. That way, once he’s made his adjustments and gotten past his growing pains, we can look at the situation in late September and see whether or not he’s making any progress. Maybe we’ll find some metal underneath the rust, and maybe it’s just rust all the way down, but either way we’ll at least know, and can then act accordingly over the offseason.
A lot of people are good at making happy noises about sorting through talent and letting guys learn on the job, but not quite as good at dealing with the inevitable losses that are going to come from that approach. If you don’t want to take the ride, then don’t buy the ticket.
I think that inevitable losses are a selling point
Its tanking while also getting better…can’t beat the value there, really.
http://bleedblackandgold.com/
by Say Hey Johnny Ray on Aug 12, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
If Milledge was playing last night he would have caught the ball
and we’d be having alot more fun talking about Slim Mac’s great 2nd start and a Pirate victory.
Too bad they didn’t leave Doumit in the minors to practice catching balls in right field. But, as I’ve been saying, it seems to be a financial issue, so we just have to deal with it while JR talks about how great it is to have No-Mitt in the field. We all need to secretly hope No-Mitt hits a bunch of doubles or gets a few hits and, voila, maybe by Aug 31st No-mitt will be “helping” some American league team in their playoff run and we’ll have a page full of LOLs.
Eh, I’m sick of watching Doumit’s lousy effort and crappy attitude. Jones and Milledge aren’t good players, but at least they give 100%.
Plus, Clement should be playing if we want to actually sort through talent instead of justifying contracts. J/M/D have enough at bats to be known as mid to low .700s OPS guys.
by Adam Reynolds on Aug 12, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually
Jones and Milledge are good players by any measure. They’re not great players, but neither is less than good.
by RichieHebner on Aug 13, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Whoa! Let's not look beyond the trees to get to the forest!
McDonald didn’t have his best stuff but with a little help should have been credited for five scoreless innings. Better said, name another current Pirate starter you have more confidence in right now?
by buccobob_houstontx on Aug 12, 2010 2:28 PM EDT reply actions
Optimism?
I read many comments on here about the hope for next year. However, with the huge pitching questions and the continued poor defensive play I’m not sure I share that optimism. Don’t we need at least one or two established postion players to solidify the lineup?
depends on what you mean by hope
I dont think we expect the team to contend next year, unless there is a some crazy offseason goings on, and some major breakouts next year
What hope there is
Is basically predicated on none of the young position players stepping back, and at least one or two pitchers (Morton, Lincoln, Veal) stepping up a bit. But I don’t think anyone hopes for more than .500 next year, barring a surprising offseason.
Don’t we need at least one or two established postion players to solidify the lineup?
Yes we absolutely do, at right field and first base. .800 OPS guys at each spot to be respectable. Jones, Doumit, Milledge, LaRoche, etc. will ensure 90-95 losses if they play a lot.
by Adam Reynolds on Aug 12, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Lots of teams have won
with several players in the lineup producing at levels on a par with Jones and Milledge. I’m still not convinced that both Doumit and LaRoche have not suffered because of injuries past or present. Tell me who you’re going to replace Jones and Milledge with who can clearly outperform them at a reasonable price, and then we can talk. For now, they need to let these guys jell a bit, continue looking for a catcher, find out out about Cedeno, and sort through the bench. While they do that, they can spend the other 90 percent of the time they have finding pitching, because that is where all these losses are going to continue to come from.
As a parallel example, Atlanta has given a boatload of PAs to Melky Cabrera and Nate McLouth this year. They both played centerfield, which is a step up from our no-bat corners.
Then again, that will probably end up costing the Braves the division by the end of the year, as I’d expect the Phillies to come back in September if not earlier.
by Adam Reynolds on Aug 13, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d never say it’s easy to construct a competitive lineup. But that doesn’t change what they need, which is two productive bats at the strongest offensive positions in the league of the outfield and first base. An elite defender at the OF spot would work too, aslong as the Wins Above Replacement is good.
by Adam Reynolds on Aug 13, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
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