Crazy Idea Of The Day - The Pirates Should Sign Pat White
As you may or may not be aware, there are certain non-baseball sports that have managed to achieve some level of popularity among America's general populace. One of these, termed "foot-ball", involves groups of eleven men disputing the possession of a skinned pig, or something along those lines. I'm not really clear on the details, but they aren't all that important. Anyhow, one of the main organizations involved in this sport, the National Foot-Ball League, apparently just completed its version of spring training, a process that involved the release of numerous foot-ball players into the exciting world of civilian life. One of these players, a former employee of the Miami Dolphins named Patrick White , may be moderately familiar to those of our readers from West Virginia.
As a good baseball fan, you are no doubt wondering by now why I am yammering on with dull tidbits about some irrelevant non-baseball activity. Please do not close your browser window! I am coming to the point!
You see, before young Mr. White was seduced into a life of grid-ironry, he was once a highly-touted amateur baseball player. During his high school days in Alabama, prior to the 2004 draft, no less a publication than Baseball America described him thus :
An all-state football player as an option quarterback, White has a scholarship to West Virginia (he changed his mind on signing day, eschewing an oral commitment to Louisiana State) that complicates his signability. He has emerged this spring as the best athlete in the prep class. White is an explosive runner whose quick hands at the plate and power potential evoke Devon White comparisons, and his power/speed combination is unmatched in the state. He hit .487-12-48 with 26 stolen bases this spring. To see White's power, scouts have to watch him take batting practice; his approach means it's usually absent during games. He's shown more polish than expected in center field, and may not make it out of the third round.
They graded him as a second-to-fifth round talent, and the 119th-best player available in that year's draft. The Angels selected him with the 113th pick in that draft, the 12th pick of the 4th round, but were unable to convince him to sign with them. White did not play baseball for West Virginia during his time with the gold and blue, due in part to a dispute with the team's coach . In spite of this, baseball remained interested in Patrick White. He was drafted by the Angels in 2007 (27th round), the Reds in 2008 (49th round), and the Yankees in 2009 (48th round), purely in the hope that he would abandon this foot-ball foolishness and return to his true calling: the national pastime. He remains an elite athlete and an intriguing physical talent.
White's NFL career has not gone well , and he appears to be running out of options. He might be able to scratch out a living as a wide receiver , although he has disdained that possibility in the past, and he would have a steep learning curve ahead of him as he is no longer eligible for a NFL practice squad. A baseball career seems like an intriguing alternative, and it's one that White himself has voiced in the past . At 24, he is old for a prospect with his lack of experience, but his scenario is not without precedent - Hall of Fame center fielder Earl Averill , for example, did not play organized baseball until he turned 24, preferring to work as a florist.
As White was not selected in the 2010 MLB draft, he would be free to sign with any team he likes, and the Pirates offer several advantages. First, as 2010 Pirates draftee Mel Rojas noted, the team's lack of recent success provides plenty of potential for rapid advancement to prospects who perform well. Second, in the Power we have one of only three West Virginia teams in the affiliated minors (the Bluefield Orioles and the Princeton Rays are the others), a welcoming and somewhat familiar environment in which for White to develop while he makes the transition to a new sport. Third, our most recent draft class was very light on outfielders (or, indeed, position players of any sort), so slotting him into the everyday lineup would not be much of an obstacle. Fourth, we've proven very willing to open the wallet for deserving amateur talent these past few seasons, and White's NFL draft bonus ($2.4M in guaranteed money) won't last forever.
Under Huntington and Coonelly, the Pirates have taken pains to acquire talent from all manner of unconventional sources. Lithuania. India. South Africa. The US Army. Why not take a chance on an unconventional prospect from our own back yard?
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I was crushed
until we just beat Oklahoma all over Glendale in the Fiesta Bowl
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"Don't wory, I'm an untrained professional" WVPF
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Sep 9, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
could he be
A bigger longshot then a couple of guys from India who never seen a baseball until a couple of years ago?
by oldfrothingslosh on Sep 9, 2010 7:10 PM EDT reply actions
Probably rubbish from a talent standpoint
Is he likely to jump straight into the minors and have any success after presumably not playing baseball for… 5 years? 6 maybe? I’m not sure.
However, just from a pure PR and generating interest move, it might be worth watching.
White definitely would have a following in State College if he were to go there, also Bradenton not being too far from Miami would be a draw to see him as well, and of course West Virginia.
Sure, why not?
Hey, what the hell
Why not? Obviously, physical tools don’t just disappear (or do they?). It’s not like the guy has sat on the couch and played video games in the last few years. He has been working out at a national class level. And besides, its not like he’s going to be worse than most of what we have right now in the low minors…
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
yea boy
ive been saying this forever i live in charleston and all i know is pat would sell the power park out every single night. The pirates would be dumb to not sign him he would bring alot of money in from the power.
im not in favor of it
its not like we cant find a spot for him somewhere. and im not saying he may be a flash in the pan guy if given the chance again to play pro ball, im just thinking that if this is what it comes down to for the pirates, then were doing something wrong. there is no need to go after this guy other than to be an organizational player and he would hardly be that as i assume he will be asking for a lot of money to play baseball over football. in simple, i just dont see the worth.
Didn’t the Pirates have a hockey player turned center fielder do OK enough to flip for a nice relief pitcher recently? Granted NyjMo went Baseball at age 22 and White is 24 it sounds like White had a higher pedigree as a yougster. In other words, why not?
I reckon it's funny that you all call it football
when the main method of moving the ball around the field is by throwing.
AFL football at least lets you kick it if you want. Then there’s Rugby, not that much kicking in that game though.
and soccer, but that’s a nancyboy’s game – no contact? I wanna tackle GD it!
I was following the Dockers
until they got roundly thrashed by Geelong. Now I’ll just go for the team that isn’t Victorian, or if the 2 in the GF are both Vic teams, the one that isn’t Collingwood.
I’m not a big NRL (league) fan.
by BlindSquirrel on Sep 12, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
More kicking than you may think
(in rugby). And players who are good kickers get a lot of use from it – the pop-kick to yourself as you run past a defender (who’s not allowed to touch you once you’ve kicked it) is an awesome, awesome move.
I'll give you credit for a unique idea, but ...
he’s too old to realistically expect an MLB career.
Moreover, his time away from baseball is going to be a big negative.
I think the best this could turn out is a Nyjer Morgan.
If it just takes a few dollars, why not?
But it’s kind of like buying a lottery ticket. You know that you are highly unlikely to ever win anything significant.
Lottery tickets FTW
The only way to succeed as a low-revenue team is to buy a boatload of lottery tickets and hope that some of them hit. So why not?
This...
…is why I don’t understand folks who ridicule NH signing the two guys from India, Gift Ngope from South Africa and that kid from Russia (or one of the former satellite states; I can’t remember which and I don’t care enough right now to go look it up.)
This is a $1 scratch-off with a top prize of $1MM. If you win, that’s awesome, and you have enough money to do two chicks at once; if it doesn’t, the edge of your quarter has that annoying little gray stuff on it, but you’re only out a dollar. Low risk, potential high reward.
Get it done, Neal.
I'm fine with the approach ...
but the critics of the international signings would say that they are just PR stunts.
Essentially, they are more aimed at creating a Pirate brand in India than actually finding players there. It’s probably true.
But if it helps the Pirates make money by selling Pirate t-shirts there, that’s great.
Completely disagree
This is about finding talent, no matter what rocks have to be kicked over to do so.
I would think the potential for a “Pirates” brand in India would be about as successful as opening a chain of all-you-can-eat steak restaurants in Mumbai. NH signed these kids, for next to nothing mind you, because he felt that they had the potential to be something. Maybe that “something” is nothing more than organizational filler, maybe he had aspirations of them being big leaguers, but to give out contracts on the hopes of selling a few caps and jerseys in Calcutta is relatively pointless.
I think that part of it...
…is also about being well-positioned to acquire future talent in the region. Right now, if you’re in India and you’re thinking of baseball, you’re thinking of Rinku and Dinesh. They’re the trailblazers. So having a reputation as the team that took a chance on Rinku and Dinesh, then gave them a fair shot and treated them well, could be a nice ace to have up our sleeve when trying to sign any additional Indian players in the next five or ten years. To say nothing of the possibility of having Rinku and/or Dinesh actively recruiting for us, holding baseball camps and working as area scouts after their playing careers are over.
Agreed wholeheartedly
It is about building a positive reputation in the area, but if the players are only signed as a joke, then the Pirates won’t have much credibility.
It seems like one of them (and forgive me for not checking the stats) actually is a pretty decent pitcher and might continue to work his way through the system. That will help immensely, as other aspiring players can point to the Pirates and say, “at least these guys got a chance” instead of, "yeah, they got signed but spent the entire length of the contract in the Rookie League.’
Rinku
Pitched well enough in the GCL to earn a promotion to State College a week or two ago. 2.61 ERA and a 1.36 WHIP, with a 20/8 K/BB in 20 2/3 innings. And he’s left-handed.
WHIP's a little high...
…probably skewed by one bad outing, but overall, those aren’t bad numbers.
Only concern about his future is that he might get lost in the shuffle as all of the young pitchers from the last two drafts start flooding the system.
Those numbers are freaking awesome if you consider
How long ago it was that he first picked up a baseball….not long ago.
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
FireRickReilly
Dinesh
Funny thing about Dinesh – his numbers were quite good last year, and awful this year. Presumably last year was a SSS fluke, but still – he had about a K/inning iirc.
My hope is/was that he’d be good enough to stick with Rinku for at least one more level.
Bishop
I understand your point. But India is not a country with a baseball tradition.
Two guys on a reality show, while a good story, are highly unlikely to make the major leagues.
On the other hand, the Pirates now have inroads into a country with one billion people.
I think the marketing angles are much more interesting than the players.
Now if India develops a baseball tradition, I’d disagree.
its really a shot in the dark
no one in India thinks about baseball, but hey, if that ever changed they would have some leverage. I don’t think it’s worth bothering much about it. It’s not likely to lead to anything at all in the next 15 years
It would be interesting to see
What happens if he played – even briefly – in the majors. They got a fair amount of press over there when signed. Obviously India is more England-centric wrt western countries, but there’s an enormous expat population here (both in the US and in Pgh), and I would imagine that it would be a pretty big deal. The Koreans certainly don’t give a shit about foot-ball (probably even less than Vlad, if you can imagine), but Hines Ward became a damn star over there, even meeting the President. And Korea is more self-assured about its place in the global world than India.
Not to mention, with a billion-plus people, it doesn’t take a lot of interest over there to start generating some worthwhile players. Getting 1% of the population even aware of the sport equals 10 million people. And a lot of cricketers thinking about emigrating could start playing a little baseball on the side with an eye towards, if not actually getting recruited, at least fitting in over here.
for better or worse
cricket doesn’t translate very well to baseball- the skills, i.e. Cricket is far far more susceptible to influence by the external conditions than baseball is.
Besides, India is not a country that likes to take sports very seriously. Even sports that have been around for decades are not that advanced in terms of facilities and access to them. It doesn’t help that parents don’t encourage kids to think about professional sports careers either.
Nor is India particularly quick to absorb changes. It could happen, but it’s a long long way away.
He was a baseball prospect in HS and had a chance at a pro contract with the Angels,
but really didn’t show much interest in baseball then or at WVU. (IIRC, he didn’t want to play baseball at WVU, even if time allowed, because they supposedly only wanted white players and not black ones.)
I would like to see the Pirates take a chance on him if he wants to give baseball a legit shot. There is still time at age 24, but he would need to start early next year.
Baseball prospect
I have a student now who was drafted in baseball out of high school. He is a much better football prospect than a baseball prospect. But he’s trying to keep his options open professionally.
Anyhow, after not playing baseball in a few years, he’s struggling to play for a below average college team. It’s obvious, for example, when you see his pitch recognition.
I think White would have a very hard time getting past Altoona. But it would be a low-risk move. And this is much more interesting than a Moss discussion.
I believe you recall wrong
I NEVER heard anything about race coming into play with Pat White’s decision to not play baseball at WVU. If you going to make racist accusations, you should really think about finding…I dunno, some shred of evidence to back your claim.
I wouldn't dismiss it with Van Zant
I have heard that is a supreme douche
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"Don't wory, I'm an untrained professional" WVPF
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Sep 10, 2010 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
When Pat White was asked at one point about playing baseball at WVU, he said something about a white team and about the coach.
This was reported in the MSM. And then White didn’t say much more and the story died.
No, I don’t have a link but it did happen.
Just because YOU didn’t hear about it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, brakeman8.
Here's one:
http://www.zagsblog.com/2008/07/29/pat-white-rips-west-virginia-baseball-coach/
Pat White accuses the coach of not being “high” on having African-Americans on the team.
Just because there are few, if any, blacks on a D-1 college team doesn’t make the coach or others in any way wrong. This is common throughout college baseball and represents the changing interests among blacks over the past few decades for blacks who are athletes-and nothing more.
If you can show me anywhere where someone has a “shred of evidence” that the WVU coach refuses to recruit black players, I’ll say I was wrong.
Pat did, in fact,
note something about there not being many (or any) black guys on the baseball team, but before the thing could spin out of control Van Zant and the A.D. Ed Pastilong and White had a private sit-down and when they were finished, lo and behold, Pat White had decided it was a good idea to keep any inflammatory racial opinions to himself.
It’s probably worth noting that baseball also conflicts with spring football, and that there likely would have been a lot of pressure on Pat, as the starting QB for a team with national championship aspirations (at least two years ago), to attend spring camp rather than dabble in baseball when he hadn’t played in years. IOW, it’s hard to see where baseball would have fit into his schedule anyway.
And FWIW, everything I ever heard about Pat while he was here indicates he was one of the good guys, a fine upstanding young man. I’m sorry things didn’t work out for him in Miami. Maybe his considerable talents are more suited for Canada or Arenaball or something.
I linked to an article about White’s accusations in the piece, guys. It’s the link under “dispute with a coach”.
by Vlad on Sep 10, 2010 7:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Brakeman
I’ll grant you that I should’ve put some of the specifics in my first post with a link or two. Sorry.
I usually post off what I remember because I think have a pretty darn good memory. I should have been a little more careful this time, though.
Vlad’s link details what I was trying to recall:
Pat White could’ve played baseball with Bill Stewart’s blessing.
As bucdaddy notes above, it was probably wise for him not to with the scheduling conflicts and his role as the leader of WVU’s offense.
My main point about White’s reported comments is that all it takes is a simple accusation of racism to ruin someone’s job, or even their life, in this crazy country.
And an undergrad student-athlete has to walk a fine line with freedom of speech when publicly criticizing a school’s coach.
And the racist insinuation was clearly wrong.
Pat White might be a pretty good guy. I wish him the best of luck in football if he continues to pursue it as a job, or whatever else he does.
According to his Wikipedia entry, his 2nd-round selection by the Dolphins in ’09 resulted in a contract which gives him $2.4 million in guaranteed greenbacks.
Not a few NFL players blow their riches in a short period of time, but let’s hope Pat White is smarter than the norm and prepares for the future accordingly.
From what I’ve seen of him as a pro prospect, he should move on and give baseball a try next year. I’d be happy if the Pirates gave him a chance.
"Let's hope that Pat White is smarter than the norm"
Seems to me like he is. I think he also has a pretty solid family structure for support, at least from what I read, and that should help. BTW, his brother Coley is playing for WVU now, as a wide receiver, IIRC. Coley came here as a QB but Geno Smith won the job and will presumably hold it for the next three years, and Coley is not and cannot be Pat. However, he seems to be a good enough athlete that they wanted to find a place for him to play, so they did.
The whole racial thing about the baseball team just seems silly. I can’t imagine Van Zant wouldn’t have wanted someone good enough to be drafted on his team (even if you’re a racist you don’t have to be an idiot, do you?), and if Pat had played baseball, then there WOULD have been a black guy on the team, who maybe would have helped attract more black baseball players to WVU … who knows? I always wondered if it was a lame attempt to be funny or something that just went bad.
bucdaddy
When I was back at Marshall in the mid-’90s, I was friends in grad school with one of the baseball team assistants. Marshall had a standout WR at the time, Tim Martin, who was also a baseball prospect out of HS. Martin actually played some baseball for the Herd, but had some major run-ins with the coaches and was off the team.
The majority of the scuttlebutt going around campus was that the Marshall baseball team was racist because it didn’t have any other black players and Martin had been treated like crap.
However, my friend told me an entirely different version of the story which put a lot of the blame on Martin’s shoulders.
At the time, the Marshall baseball program was at a low point with terrible facilities and a field that flooded every time it rained. The head coach made peanuts. And this unsubstantiated racist garbage directed at him and others connected to the program hurt the team, and made it less likely that they could recruit any black players.
So, yeah, I guess I’m a bit touchy about stuff like this, and the Pat White story a couple years ago really ticked me off.
It will be interesting to see
what happens with the program now that Ollie Luck is in charge. Too many of the WVU coaches seemed to have lifetime contracts while Pastilong was A.D. (Huggins, in fact, literally has one) without much to show for it. I’m thinking specifically of Hammersmith, the volleyball coach, who had been there for generations and suddenly decided to “retire” a couple weeks before the season started and a few weeks after Luck took charge.
In terms of producing pro caliber players, Van Zant has been (I think) reasonably successful for a mid-level program in the Big East. WVU usually has 2-3 players to keep an eye on at draft time. But in terms of wins and losses, not so much. They’re seldom, if ever, a Big East-championship caliber team. They’re generally middle of the pack, and have been for a long time.
OTOH, the baseball program hasn’t brought the NCAA to campus either, so there’s that.
Wait, that sounded a little harsh.
Most of their programs ARE successful, even very successful. Certainly in football, men’s and women’s basketball, rifle, cross country and the distance runners in track, women’s soccer. The tennis and volleyball teams seem on the upswing. The wrestling program has slid and the baseball team is mediocre, which makes them stand out some, and is why I wonder if Van Zant’s job might be on the line soon.
I should have voted against it
Just so I could show my support for the increased use of the word Poppycock
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Poppycock
is the greatest carmel coated corn with nuts ever invented. Cracker Jack be damned.
by Wizard of Woz on Sep 10, 2010 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions
+ 100
I receive a number of Harry & David gift baskets at Christmas from contractors that work for me throughout the year, and I look forward to the Moose Munch the most.
In fact, they could keep the pears and apples and just send the cheese and sausage assortment along with the Moose Munch and I would be a happy guy.
I prefer "Tommyrot"
Ike used the term in a campaign ad in 1964 defending Barry Goldwater against charges of extremism.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
I was totally taken by the use of "whilst"
in the photo caption. Made me think of tim williams, who liberally sprinkles "amongst"s in his blog.
The dude is athtletic...
so have him in for a tryout.
Also it’s Ike Taylor, not Ivan.
"It WILL happen."
Bill Mazeroski
June 19th, 2010
I played that "foot-ball" in high school.
Caused some back and knee problems for me. A very nasty sport to play, unlike baseball. On the other hand, foot-ball is certainly fun to watch when there’s no baseball or hockey on.
The only athletic ability I had in high school was throwing shot and picking where to eat the foot-ball pregame meal at. Also pissing off that “coach” guy. I don’t think he liked me very much.
All for it
Low risk, high reward and intriguing as hell.
by RichieHebner on Sep 9, 2010 10:47 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
IIRC, J.R. House
made the majors, after he rode the bench for a year at WVU, behind … Pat White.
And if he doesn't work out...
..maybe we can pry Sid away from the Penguins!
Oops, premature send
Today’s crazy idea: All Pirates players write 500 page essays about how Brandon Moss is turning it around
by TravisDW on Sep 10, 2010 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
DJ Dozier...
was a star RB at PSU then played in the NFL for 5 seasons and still made it to MLB with the Mets.
Huh
I just voted and “Brilliant!” has 80% of the vote and “Poppycock!” 19%.
What’s the option that’s pulling 1%? That the Pittsburgh Power should sign Pat?
Think it's a rounding error.
Right now, the vote is 331-80 in favor (Just as an aside – Holy shit! I had no idea so many people read this site. We were averaging about a vote a minute for the first hour it was up.)
331/411 is 80.535%
80/411 is 19.465%
So it’s rounding the 80.5 down to 80 rather than up to 81, for some reason.
Well, if somebody were front-paging MY posts...
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
Maybe the Pirates
should set up a recruiting booth at St. Vincents. After a few 2 a days there may be a few Cecil Fielder types rethinking their career paths.
by oldfrothingslosh on Sep 10, 2010 12:02 PM EDT reply actions
After reading your well-written post Vlad
I suspect you might be admirer of the published works of John Hodgman?? I’m quite the aficionado myself, but I could be wrong. In any case, if the Pirates happen to sign this Foot-Baller you speak of, then I’ll just take it as another clear sign that Raganok is most certainly almost upon us.
I was reminded
of the tweets of our dearly departed friend Old Hoss Radbourn :)
I'm vaguely familiar with him.
And the general impression that I have is positive. But I’m not a devotee, by any means.
Royals
signed Pat White today. Good timing on the post.
It's all your fault, Vlad.
I think Marshall should beat WVU tonight to make me feel better.
Not so crazy after all
Yeah, didn’t seem like too crazy of an idea to the Royals.
Good article!
This idea is so dumb
That only the Royals would do it.
Now if I could only hack into the datestamp….

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