Trib: Pirates Bowing Out Of Relief Market?
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jan 9, 2011 10:00 PM EST
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PrintIt's been a while since we've had enough links to even be able to do one of these link-roundup posts, but today, there are a few:
-P- Rob Biertempfel says the Pirates are no longer in the running for Brian Fuentes and says the relief pitching market has gotten so tough that the Bucs could just give up, and instead depend on guys like Scott Olsen, Danny Moskos, Tony Watson, and Aaron Thompson to fill lefty relief spots.
Sticking Olsen in the bullpen would be fine with me - he probably isn't among the Pirates' best five starters anyway, and he doesn't have much experience as a reliever, so there's some chance he'd have success in the bullpen. And while I'd prefer the Pirates have a better second lefty candidate than Tony Watson, I do think he could be at least decent as long as Clint Hurdle makes sure he's facing mostly lefties.
As for Moskos and Thompson, ugh. I won't belabor the point, but I have no faith in Moskos whatsoever, at least not right now, and particularly not after his collapse in Indianapolis last season. If that poor stint at AAA were the first or even second uninspiring stretch of his career, that would be one thing, but it isn't. In fact, the good results he got at Class AA last year stand out as much on his stat line as the Class AAA collapse does. ZiPS projects him to have a 5.37 ERA this year, with about one walk for every strikeout - cannon fodder, essentially.
As for Thompson ... no. Just no. He has almost no experience above Class AA, and he spent the 2010 season putting up a 5.80 ERA at that level last year. If Thompson can even be replacement-level this year, I'll be shocked. If he winds up in the major-league bullpen at any point in the first couple months of the season, then the Pirates planned very poorly, because in order to clear roster space for him, the Pirates had to designate Wilfredo Ledezma for assignment. I'd rather have Ledezma than any of the four potential bullpen lefties Biertempfel lists, and frankly it isn't close.
The Ledezma DFA made no sense, but ... fine. That's water under the bridge, I guess. But if Biertempfel's reporting is accurate and the Pirates really are about to throw up their hands and go into camp with Olsen, Watson, Moskos and Thompson as their top bullpen lefties (and I guess you could throw Justin Thomas, who isn't mentioned, in there too), then Neal Huntington either very seriously misjudged the market or simply didn't care that he was throwing away the only lefty reliever he had who appeared likely to be helpful.
True, the Pirates probably won't have more than two lefties in their 'pen to start the year and could begin with as few as one, but if someone like Moskos is third on the organization's depth chart for lefty relief, for example, he will probably end up pitching quite a few innings in the majors this year, and there's no indication yet that he should. We could see the Bucs get creative later in the season with someone like Justin Wilson in the 'pen, but until then, here's hoping the Pirates can find some room in their budget for a mediocre lefty like Tim Byrdak or Ron Mahay. Neither of them are better options than Ledezma, but whatever. I'm rarely a huge fan of the idea of a team in the Pirates' position signing veteran mediocrities, as my reaction to the Lyle Overbay trade showed, but in this case, the Pirates don't even have enough major-leaguers available to fill the spots they'll need to throughout the season.
-P- The Washington Wild Things are having a banquet on Wednesday, and Jim Leyland, Kent Tekulve, and Lanny Frattare will be there.
-P- The Bradenton Marauders' YouTube channel has interviews with manager Carlos Garcia and pitching coach Mike Steele (thanks to OnlyBucs for the link). The Steele interview, in which he talks about the difference between coaching a college team and coaching in the minors, and about the particular problems of coaching a Class A+ team, is particularly interesting.
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This might be the first time you and I agree on something.
Pirates, Vikings, Hokies. I'm used to heartbreak. At least I have the Penguins....
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-The Great One
by blackjackfishtaco on Jan 10, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
why
are no new comments popping up as new under post headings or yellow when i come to the posts page? anyone else currently having this problem?
We have to unify and watch our flag ascend!
alright, at least its not me, i was about to hit my computer. cuz i already tried refreshing and restarting….
We have to unify and watch our flag ascend!
New comments
As I look at main posts and fanposts, the last line of the title, which counts number of comments, sometimes gives only the number of comments, and sometimes specifies both the number of comments AND the number of new comments. When new comments number is available, I click on it and yellow highlighting results. New comments doesn’t seem to be available on any post this morning. Maybe there’s an on-off switch somewhere.
Lino Donoso
Yeah, SBN told me they switched it off temporarily for performance reasons. It should be back now.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jan 10, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
I’m also a little concerned about our lack of lefty options for the pen, though Olsen and Watson may be fine. And I liked Ledezma. But I wouldn’t worry about losing Ledezma in terms of how it affects our need for a lefty. Over his career LHB have hit him just as well as RHB, and they actually hit him better last year. So maybe he’d be a good arm for the bullpen, but to count on him as someone to get a tough LHB out would be a mistake. In fact, I’d be more worried if NH was counting on Ledezma to be that guy.
And Moskos did implode in AAA but it was only 17.1 IP. Goldstein quoted a scout saying that Moskos could get major league lefties out right now. If he was handled carefully he might be fine.
It was in his comments following his ranking of the Pirates top 11 prospects and the implication was that he got the quote as part of doing his rankings, but it could have been older. And I just went back and checked, and he actually wrote “Double-A scouts”—note that is was AA but also that there was more than one that evidently felt this way.
if they felt that way
there isnt a lot of reason for them to change their stance based on a smattering of innings…
I'd go with Olsen and Thomas from the left side
Thomas pitched well at AAA. I can think of about 10 guys I’d have dropped before Ledezma. But, what’s done is done. I wouldn’t be surprised if they did bring in one of the mediocre veterans available on a minor league deal. If they have significant major league experience, then they’ll probably get at least what Ledezma was due and have to be put on the 40-man roster anyway if they make the team.
I had Olsen penciled in for the rotation. I’d now put Morton in that 5th slot with Ohlendorf, McDonald, Maholm, and Correia. How Morton looks in spring training will go a long way to determining where he starts the year (in the rotation, hiding in long relief, or trying to get him through waivers).
The bullpen would be Hanrahan, Meek, Resop, Olsen, Thomas, Karstens (for a long man/spot starter) and one more spot for people to fight for. That’s ignoring injuries too. There’s usually an unexpected injury or two that’ll open a spot or spots.
I'm wondering if the plan all along ...
was for Olsen to pitch out of the bullpen. That’s the only way the Ledezma move makes sense because the Pirates easily could have dropped other guys who likely would not have been claimed.
i guess you could be right bernie
but it would be a big surprise to Olsen, whose contract is heavily incentive laden through innings pitched
Maybe his agent was smart
and there is a clause for IP or appearances.
Nope...
according to Jen Langosch…incentives are all on games started.
Last year, the lefties on Opening day were Javier Lopez, and Jack Taschner. Going in with Olsen and Watson isn’t any worse than that.
Lopez put up a 0 WAR (wins above replacement) with the Pirates, and Taschner added -0.1 WAR. Most of the value in the 2010 pen came from Hanrahan’s 1.4 WAR and Meek’s .8. No one else was over .3
Fuentes is elite against lefties, not as great in the closer’s chair. No matter the role, he’s not worth 3 years, $15 million.
Last year, the lefties on Opening day were Javier Lopez, and Jack Taschner. Going in with Olsen and Watson isn’t any worse than that.
This isn’t a good thing, is it?
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jan 10, 2011 1:56 AM EST up reply actions
No, but we stol had an average pen last season even without contributing lefties.
Also, if the market for relievers is ridiculous with multi year deals, there’s not much to do if you don’t want to get hurt next year. If everyone hates Overbay’s .5-1 WAR for $5 million, it’s harder to justify Fuentes at the same age and production over three years. If the roster looks a lot better next season, then it makes sense to go multiple years for a good reliever (hopefully better than Fuentes).
by Adam Reynolds on Jan 10, 2011 12:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No, but we stol had an average pen last season even without contributing lefties.
The other way to look at that is that we had an average pen last season in spite of getting 150 killer innings out of Hanrahan and Meek.
If everyone hates Overbay’s .5-1 WAR for $5 million, it’s harder to justify Fuentes at the same age and production over three years.
Do we have four internal relief candidates for every available bullpen spot, who are of approximately equal skill to the free agents we’d be bringing in? Because if not, the one situation has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
“Do we have four internal relief candidates for every available bullpen spot, who are of approximately equal skill to the free agents we’d be bringing in? Because if not, the one situation has absolutely nothing to do with the other.”
That would be a good point if the internal candidates at first base aren’t either hurt or can’t play defense, but since they aren’t, its not.
by Adam Reynolds on Jan 10, 2011 1:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That would be a good point if the internal candidates at first base aren’t either hurt or can’t play defense, but since they aren’t, its not.
And yet, the numbers say otherwise…
(P.S.: Per Coonelly, Pearce is doing well and will be ready to hit the ground running at the start of spring training. So much for injury as a pretext for ignoring him.)
The defensive numbers don’t say otherwise. That’s the point. Jones being awful is why he’s moved. Maybe the offensive figures are similar. Anyway, the point is he’s a better defensive potential trade chip than all the corners except possibly Doumit, and he can’t stay healthy or play D.
by Adam Reynolds on Jan 10, 2011 1:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The defensive numbers don’t say otherwise.
The edge granted by Overbay’s defensive performance is fairly small, and the magnitude of that edge has been greatly overstated by pro-Overbay commenters.
Anyway, the point is he’s a better defensive potential trade chip than all the corners…
Overbay has been shopped aggressively for the past several years, and nobody was ever willing to give up anything of significant value in exchange for him. Why would that change now, with him being older and more expensive and (per ZiPS) likely less productive?
“The edge granted by Overbay’s defensive performance is fairly small, and the magnitude of that edge has been greatly overstated by pro-Overbay commenters”
Whether it’s small or not, its more significant than Fuentes’ value above replacement the last few years. It is in the numbers, not “commentary”, except in the case of pearce where we don’t have a lot of numbers to make a conclusion except he’s short.
“Overbay has been shopped aggressively for the past several years, and nobody was ever willing to give up anything of significant value in exchange for him. Why would that change now, with him being older and more expensive and (per ZiPS) likely less productive?”
In toronto, he was making $7 million with no-trade protection. Now, it’s a lower salary at $5 million and without the trade protection (as far as I can tell).
by Adam Reynolds on Jan 10, 2011 2:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
its more significant than Fuentes’ value above replacement the last few years
It’s only true for “few years” = 1 or 2, not for “few years” = 3 or more And as I noted before, WAR isn’t going to give a true picture of the value of a player like Fuentes to us, in that we may not have replacement-level performers on hand as alternatives for his role.
In toronto, he was making $7 million with no-trade protection. Now, it’s a lower salary at $5 million and without the trade protection (as far as I can tell).
Toronto was reported as being willing to pick up part of his salary to facilitate a trade, so the monetary difference is immaterial, and no discussions ever got to the point where he was asked to waive his no-trade clause (because no one was sufficiently interested in trading for him).
His role would be closer, not situational lefty. In that case, he’s not really replacing one of the situational left-handers if he’s in the 9th inning slot.
by Adam Reynolds on Jan 10, 2011 4:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
His role would be closer, not situational lefty.
Says who? I’m sure he’d prefer to close, but that doesn’t mean that we have to use him that way, as long as he’s under contract and signed without being promised any particular role.
If we give him the kind of money he's asking for...
…he could probably pitch mopup, for all he cares.
Anything of significant value?
Or anything?
I never saw anything that suggested a team was willing to give up a few C pitching prospects for him.
He did get traded in '05...
…in a five-player deal, and the Brewers did get one-and-a-half good seasons out of Dave Bush from the deal, plus some moderately useful OF play from Gabe Gross.
Hence, “anything of significant value”, rather than “anything”.
I was thinking the past two years, Vlad
I should have been clearer
Fuentes
I wouldn’t pay him that much.
But he’ll be much easier to trade than Overbay.
Yes, it does.
Fuentes has been, at times, a star-level performer, and he projects as an above-average reliever this year.
Overbay has never been a star-level performer, adn he projects as a below-average regular this year, in a role where there are many more potential alternatives.
Ergo, Fuentes is more likely to bring back a significant return in a trade than Overbay is.
Fuentes was a star-level reliever one of the last for seasons. He also shouldn’t be a closer. He’s more likely to get injured than a position player, and if he does you’re down $15 million. That’s a terrible deal if you’re looking for a return. While Fuentes’ trade upside is greater, not enough to make up for age/injury and price, plus not even being good the last 2 years.
by Adam Reynolds on Jan 10, 2011 2:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Fuentes was a star-level reliever one of the last for seasons.
Which gives him more star-level seasons in the last three years than Overbay’s had in his entire career.
He’s more likely to get injured than a position player…
Than a hypothetical average position player, or than Overbay, who’s in his mid-30s and in physical decline?
That’s a terrible deal if you’re looking for a return.
The odds of getting a substantial return back for either player depend solely on the odds of that player delivering a star-caliber performance, since teams aren’t going to give up a substantial return for a player below that level. Even if we accept that Fuentes is more likely than Overbay to crater and become a significant liability (which he may not be), that doesn’t affect the likelihood of moving him for a substantial return, since it’s not like a team is going to end up giving us -1 prospects for Fuentes if he’s cover-your-eyes awful. We’ll just suffer through the performance and/or eat the contract.
[Please note that I am not arguing in favor of us signing Fuentes to a three-year deal. I’m merely arguing that like almost all of the free agents on the market this offseason, he would’ve been a more sensible investment for us than Overbay was.]
Fuentes is also older, and a two or three-year deal is harder to move than a one-year commitment like we had with Dotel. The question isn’t whether Fuentes is more likely to return than Overbay, but is he more likely enough to bring back 2x- 3x the return or 2x- 3x as likely to bring the same return. Either way, that’s (the multiyear) a huge gamble for a guy that also has a shaky track record.
by Adam Reynolds on Jan 10, 2011 4:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The question isn’t whether Fuentes is more likely to return than Overbay
Why isn’t that the question? It’s certainly the question I was answering in this post.
Fuentes is also older, and a two or three-year deal is harder to move than a one-year commitment like we had with Dotel.
Potentially. It depends what other lefty relievers are on the market – the population of them is smaller than the population of RHRPs like Dotel. And of course, the fact that Fuentes is a better pitcher than Dotel even in the abstract would also make it easier to receive value in exchange for him.
The question isn’t whether Fuentes is more likely to return than Overbay, but is he more likely enough to bring back 2x- 3x the return or 2x- 3x as likely to bring the same return.
There’s a near-zero chance of Overbay bringing back anything but a fringe prospect and salary relief. Not sure how multiplying by zero affects your math there.
Adam, you make it sound like Fuentes sucked last year.
a 2.81 ERA and 1.063 WHIP, 5.8 H/9, are all better than what Hanrahan had last season. His 8.8 k/9 are fine for a reliever although not on the level of Hanrahan.
Actually, $5M for a season would be cheap. I just wouldn’t go 3 years with him as he would be turning 38 in the 3rd season. Not too many closers not named Rivera or Hoffman have produced at that age.
Hanrahan was worth 1.4 WAR, while Fuentes was worth 0.4. That’s a difference. He might have been worth it to sign for 1 year, 5 million. But I agree with you that multiple years when he’s old and shaky isn’t a great idea. I didn’t like the second year for Matt Diaz.
by Adam Reynolds on Jan 10, 2011 10:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm not arguing which was better.
You indicated that Fuentes had been bad the last 2 years. His 2010 season could not be considered bad by anyone’s standards.
When did I say he was bad???
by Adam Reynolds on Jan 10, 2011 10:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That assumes ...
he is getting a three-year deal, which I don’t think will happen.
But I can guarantee there is a much larger market for Fuentes than there was for Overbay.
What I’d like to know is this: Did anyone else seriously pursue Overbay?
Last year, the lefties on Opening day were Javier Lopez, and Jack Taschner. Going in with Olsen and Watson isn’t any worse than that.
Last year, we had Ledezma sitting in AAA as an insurance policy. This year, we don’t.
This year that might be Moskos, who should be tougher against lefties than Ledezma. A bullpen role may work great for Olsen (good LHB/RHB split and maybe is a better fit for his shoulder), and then you give the other spot to Watson or Moskos with the loser being depth in Indy.
Hanrahan, Meek, Resop, Karstens or Burres, loser of Morton and Lincoln for the rotation spot, Olsen, Watson/Moskos—that seems like a decent bullpen. And then there are some wildcards like Veal, Ascaino, Hart that may work their way into a spot at some point.
Not that I wouldn’t like to see them bring in a guy like Mike Gonzalez—if they did that I’d argue that they’d have as good a bullpen as they’ve had in many years.
This year that might be Moskos, who should be tougher against lefties than Ledezma.
As I previously stated, I don’t trust Moskos at all this year, given the way that he got curb-stomped by AAA competition. It’s not out of the question that he could turn out OK, but I wouldn’t want to go into the year relying on him to do so, which is basically what we’re doing at this point.
The AAA information is very limited so I’m not putting much weight on it. But what little I do get from it is that he just had horrible control—his K rate held up but his BB rate skyrocketed and I assume that led to him being much more hittable as he was often working from behind. It may be nothing more than needing to trust his stuff as he advances levels. But I agree that it would be nice to not be in a position to rely on him, and I suspect a veteran will be brought in (though maybe not until the end of ST after other teams make cuts).
When I see that kind of line, it suggests to me that the guys at AA will chase a slider out of the zone, but guys in AAA will watch it go by and make you throw strikes.
Could have just been a temporary loss of command as well, though. Maybe he had a brain cloud?
That's a reasonable point
But at some point you have to give him a chance to fail at the MLB level.
And this year’s team is nothing special.
Why not see if he’s worth a 40-man spot next year?
In the abstract, I'm fine with giving him a chance to fail at the MLB level.
I’d be much more fine with it in practice if we had at least one solid lefty reliever on hand, because then if he did fail, we could swap him out for someone else. As things stand, we’re potentially looking at a total clusterfuck.
Yes.
In 2010, the back of the pen was a cattle call, but the people in the high-leverage roles were pretty productive. Whereas going into the year without even one competent lefty means a lot of blown 7th and 8th inning leads.
Ledezma wasn’t anything this time last year. He is only on the map at all because of a decent 2010 in Triple-A.
by Adam Reynolds on Jan 10, 2011 12:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ledezma wasn’t anything this time last year.
He was a veteran with a demonstrated ability to put up a 5-ish ERA against MLB-caliber competition. Which isn’t great, but is still a hell of a lot more than we can count on getting out of the Moskoses and Thompsons of the world.
The off-season isn’t over…
So it’s your position that the Trib report in the article’s header is just a clever ruse, then?
I still think...
…that there’s quite a few lefty relief options we might be able to get on a minor league contract. And they probably could do just as good of a job as the major league options remaining (Fuentes, Beimel, etc.)
Baseball-Reference has a list of all the minor league free agents. I’m pretty sure that it’s not updated to show who’s still available, but there’s a few names who have some AAA experience that could probably be thrown into the pen and be better off than a Moskos or a Thompson. Scott Rice or Jose Lugo come to mind, though their AAA stats weren’t all that great last year. Rice, though, had some solid numbers at Ottawa a few years back.
Again, I’m not saying we should sign those guys specifcally; I’m just saying, there’s still some options out there.
In summary of the Pirates offseason moves to date.......
……..do you think this roster is what CH envisioned when he was assured that management and ownership “were all in?”
by Marooned Pirate on Jan 10, 2011 9:15 AM EST reply actions
We are a long way from the start of the season
My guess is we pick up one or two lefties off the scrap heap during spring training that are as good or possibly better than the guys we have already. I would not get too concerned about this just yet.
If Watson is brought along the right way, he may even surprise us some.
Either NH doesn't believe in the platoon advantage or he, again, needs to watch what he says
Huntington admitted the Pirates won’t have the luxury of needing a purely situational lefty reliever until the starters are able to consistently pitch deep into games.
“Our starting rotation was a huge hindrance for us last year,” Huntington said. “We need some guys to take steps forward and come into their own. If they do that, maybe we are ready to have that one-inning lefty. As we sit here now, we’re not.”
Really? Only when the starters are good do you need a “one inning lefty”? What is this really saying? Good starters or not, in baseball lefties are needed, I don’t know, DAILY or so. And/or, he doesn’t think the starters will be taking any steps forward. I wouldn’t fault anyone for agreeing, but what if they do? What if McDonald is good, Maholm swings back to being decent, and Correia does whatever they gave him a two year contract to do? We’re going to piss games away because we don’t have a lefty when we need one?
You may have quoted an earlier version of the article, but the current article says “one-hitter lefty.” This makes sense—if you’re regularly having to go to the bullpen early, you really can’t afford to use a reliever for a single batter. However, you could make the argument that we need to enter this season assuming that we have a rotation that can pitch into the late innings on a regular basis.
Yeah
In the video this is taken from, NH is talking about not having the luxury of carrying a LOOGY when your starting pitching isn’t going deep in games. He says the market for the lefties that can get more than one guy out "blew up" this year, and he would rather have a good RH pitcher than a bad LH pitcher.
Of course, unless Bowker is retained in the system and has a shot at Pittsburgh, we had that lefty in Lopez, and basically gave him away for what appears to be nothing.
by MarkInDallas on Jan 10, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
at the time of the trade everyone was happy.
by karreemofwheat on Jan 10, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Because at the time of the trade...
…we hadn’t forced Bowker off the 25-man roster by wasting $5M on Lyle Overbay.
wait, i thought you like the overbay signing?
by karreemofwheat on Jan 10, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
Vlad hated the signing after it happened
But he lobbied for it extensively for several years.
I said the return was Moss/Clement and Karstens/McCutchen even at the time. However, Lopez also looked replaceable at the time, due to 0.0 WAR and not being great in 08 or 09 either. He only exploded with the Giants…
by Adam Reynolds on Jan 10, 2011 1:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I admit I was happy about the trade
But that was before I really saw Bowker play. I was only looking at his MiLB numbers. After viewing his limitations, I was much less excited about him.
by MarkInDallas on Jan 10, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
He can’t draw walks against major leaguers. That 6% rate had to be supplemented by a decent average if he was going to play in a corner. Unfortunately, with out walks and average, he’s harder to distinguish from Jones and Clement, and we know how they turned out.
by Adam Reynolds on Jan 10, 2011 4:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He can’t draw walks against major leaguers. That 6% rate had to be supplemented by a decent average if he was going to play in a corner. Unfortunately, with out walks and average, he’s harder to distinguish from Jones and Clement, and we know how they turned out.
by Adam Reynolds on Jan 10, 2011 4:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Kinda hard to credit NH’s explanation when last year he signed a classic LOOGY in Lopez and then they didn’t use him as a LOOGY.
in fairness
i think NH mentioned when they signed him that they werent going to use him as a LOOGY
by BurgherKing on Jan 10, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Well
Maybe the power will develop this year…
http://bleedblackandgold.com/
by Say Hey Johnny Ray on Jan 10, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
That’s my worry. I’d rather have a really fast 5 HR guy than a decently fast 15 HR guy. I’m not entirely sure if the metrics agree with me on that, though.
by Suffering Buc on Jan 10, 2011 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
Kind of depends...
…how well that speed translates into in-game value (defense, baserunning, doubles/triples, etc.).
could
just be the way the shirt is hanging too…
but those forearms look pretty beefy.
by BlindSquirrel on Jan 10, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
Tabata=Stud.
If we keep him, I’m getting his jersey.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 10, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
this is one of my big plans. get a tabata jersey and go down to the stadium early, get it autographed during warmups. then frame that sucker.
We have to unify and watch our flag ascend!
Great picture and all
But can you get one with Steve Pearce and Andy LaRoche’s forearms also in it at the same time? Thanks in advance!
by matskralc on Jan 11, 2011 8:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If it is just upper body strength, it shouldn’t affect the speed that much. Hard to tell from the outfit he is wearing if he bulked up all around.
actually any kind of added muscle/bulk can slow a person down.
youre moving youre entire body, not just your lower half. unless youre ME, whom is turtle slow no matter what size i am.
NH is waiting until the starters are able to consistently pitch deep into games??
To get situational pitchers (LOOGY)? So he signs a guy that has a quality start about 42% of the time. Major league average is just about right at 50%.
So…any further acquisitions of relievers are likely to be dumpster diving? Congrats Neal…on a FINE winter of improving the Pirates roster.
PS…a good day to test your sarcasm detectors.
I think average QS% is 40%. Where are you getting 50%.
by MarkInDallas on Jan 10, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
From Correia’s page on bbref…the same column that has his quality start percentage states that the ML average is 49%.
Where do you find that on bbref? I’ve never seen QS listed on there.
by MarkInDallas on Jan 10, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
Jorge Julio anyone
He’s not left handed, but after a stint in the independant league and a winter in Venezuela the Pirates have signed him to a minor league deal with an invite to spring training.
I'm skeptical.
He was pretty awful in ’09, and had significant command/control issues even before that.
Still, I guess it doesn’t hurt to take a look.
Not a lot of competition for the last spot or two in the pen, so it certainly can’t hurt to give him a look.
Last time I saw him he was hitting 98 mph
but I think he also walked the bases loaded.
i thought there was no invite to spring training,
which seems odd.
by karreemofwheat on Jan 10, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
What a ridiculous post!
That’s suppose to be big breaking news the Pirates are not gonna sign
Fuentes? Try to consolidate your words instead of just rambling on.
You geniuses kill me. All of you know every stat on every player and
I doubt you remember your own mothers birthday. What a bunch of whining
crybaby know it alls you have become. "Oh that’s SPAM CHARLIE! Waaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
marked as spam….he said it, not me…..
We have to unify and watch our flag ascend!
by C Shint on Jan 10, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hahahahaha!
You’re still here!
AND still clueless!
AWEsome!
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 10, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
I'm Still Here
Do you think this is all an act like Joaquin Phoenix?
by MarkInDallas on Jan 10, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Nice.
He doesn’t have much, but “some” is more than “none.”
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 10, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know, I’d say you have to have some talent to pull off a hoax like he did over a year’s time. And dedication.
by MarkInDallas on Jan 10, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed,
that’s why I said “some.”
If I had his dough, I could pretend to be a dick for a year.
And it wouldn’t be pretending too much, according to some…
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 10, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
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