MLB Trade Rumors: Yankees' Francisco Cervelli Could Be A Fit At Catcher For Pirates, NY Post Speculates
by Charlie Wilmoth on Oct 25, 2011 10:15 AM EDT
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PrintThe Pirates have prioritized finding a catcher this offseason, which could make them a match with the Yankees. The Yankees are expected to keep Russell Martin, who cannot be a free agent until after the 2012 season, and try to make Jesus Montero his primary backup.
The Yankees can dangle Austin Romine, but they would like to put him at Triple-A as an option in case Montero cannot handle major league catching.
The Yankees would definitely trade Francisco Cervelli, but will the Pirates or any other team look at him as a potential starter and also feel he is a safe acquisition after incurring a series of concussions?
This isn't the first time the Post has connected Cervelli to the Pirates - in August, they reported that the Pirates almost traded Brad Lincoln for him. I guess there's no good reason to be opposed to the Pirates acquiring Cervelli, but I wouldn't want them giving the Yankees anything too interesting in return. Most Yankees fans don't think much of Cervelli's defense, and his offense leaves a lot to be desired as well. He has also been hurt a lot and has had three concussions, as the quote from the Post suggests. You could certainly argue that he'd be an upgrade over what the Pirates currently have, although most MLB-caliber catchers would be.
Romine was 22 last year and didn't improve much after repeating Class AA. He wouldn't be a bad guy to have in the system, but he's not a solution to the Pirates' current catcher issues, and I doubt the Bucs would have much interest, given that they already have Tony Sanchez at approximately the same stage of his development.
Via Tim.
Update (by Vlad): Coincidentally, the Yankees' 2012 ZiPS projections were released yesterday. Their forecast for Cervelli isn't good: A .255/.321/.343 batting line within the Yankees' park and league context, which translates into a 75 OPS+. Offensively, ZiPS sees him as the fifth-best-hitting catcher currently in the Yankees' system for 2012, behind Montero, Martin, 19-year-old Gary Sanchez, and Austin Romine. He drops to sixth if you include Posada, who's listed as a 1B. His three most comparable batters are Larry Gonzales, Clay Hill, and Kirt Manwaring.
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Judging by how often he’s played, Cervelli makes Doumit look like Cal Ripken. His totals of games played in his full seasons in the minors:
2005: 24 (rookie level)
2006: 42
2007: 89
2008: 27
He’s not a terrible hitter. He looks to me like Jason Jaramillo with major concussion issues added. The main advantage of adding him would be to push Pagnohit down the depth chart and hopefully off the 40-man roster.
CS% isn’t the be-all of defense, but he doesn’t seem to be very good at it—just 14% in each of the last two seasons. The fact that he’s a surprisingly inexperienced catcher may be part of the problem.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
Judging by how often he’s played, Cervelli makes Doumit look like Cal Ripken.
In addition to the concussions, he’s had at least two major injuries of which I’m aware: A broken wrist from a collision at the plate with Tampa’s Elliot Johnson during spring training in 2008, and a broken foot from a foul ball during spring training this year.
I'm baffled by the fascination with Cervelli
The Pirates need hitting, not a catcher prone to suffering concussions.
s.zielinski
Maybe he hits better after concussions.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
To be fair, I’m not sure there’s any fascination. There was one report about him, and now the same paper is speculating that there might be interest again.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Oct 25, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
The typical NYY rumor would have us trading Taillon for him.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
The thread about this on SB Nation’s Yankees blog had a comment suggesting the Yankees trade Cervelli, Nick Swisher and Dellin Betances for Andrew McCutchen and Gerrit Cole.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Oct 25, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
As a group, they truly are the worst baseball fans anywhere.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Oct 25, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
Cutch is “almost the same player” as Brett Gardner. He has a point when you think about it. Cutch and Gardner have exactly the same number of limbs.
the same comment
actually says they are the same player with cutch having a few extra OBP points and about a 100 more slugging points and that Gardner is older. LOLZZZ!!!
So, they are the same the way Overbay and Fielder are? Both LH 1B with Fielder having a few 100 points of OBP and similar amounts of SLG over Overbay, and Overbay is a bit older…
(Disclaimer: Not comparing Gardner to the current version of Overbay)
by BurgherKing on Oct 26, 2011 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Isn't the New York Post...
the New York daily paper that tends to carry outlandish pictures/captions/stories on it’s back page?
Yeah
The Daily News (does it still exist?) used to do that, at least way back when I was in school. They had one story about an inmate in a prison for the criminally insane who got loose, raped a nurse and escaped. The headline was “Nut Screws and Bolts.” Classy paper. From some of the Post content I’ve seen, nothing much has changed in NYC.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
The terrorists hate our healthy foot tendons!
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
But the NewsCorp doesn't own it
So, this can’t be the worst headline produced by a Scottish paper!
s.zielinski
the Daily News is still here
and running sports commentary from Bill Madden, Esq., which some guy Fanshotted the other day.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Oct 25, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
The Post....
rocks. Daily News, not so much. Lupica, Madden enough said.
The Hammer Speaks
Extra Innings
Twitter: @DTonPirates and @hammerspeaks
It's simple... he's in the Yankees system.
I could feel his muscle tissues collapse under my force. It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm. ~~ Mike Tyson
I don't think that's fair
It’s the same thing with Doumit’s injury problems. Both aren’t like Snyder with a bad back or something. Concussion from this guy and the type of injuries Doumit has are all contact related, not conditioning or something. I feel like these types just need to wise up and realize that taking the hit and saving a run might not be worth it in the long run or at least spend some time learning how to properly take a hit.
by ATribeCalledGreg on Oct 25, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd probably be against acquiring him unless it was for close to nothing.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
Even still, it depends who.
I wouldn’t trade half our pen for him.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
Moskos yes
Resop Veras Grilli probably, but not automatic, I’d want to think it over more. I’d rather trade them for prospects, even if they are C+ level.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
Not to bring Pauly into this, BUT...
I’d be fine with acquiring Cervelli for Maholm if we’re dead set on not picking up that option.
I’m sure with the Yankees rotation woes, they’d be more than willing to pick up that option and roll the dice Paul can survive the NL East. Granted, I’d rather have Maholm than Cervelli in 2012, but if that’s not an option, then at least Cervelli kind of, sort of, fills a position of need.
Thoughts?
We wouldn’t be in this type of ludicrous position, where we would be asking if we’re OK with dealing Maholm for a back-up catcher, if NH has just KEPT HIS MOUTH SHUT! He’s like my 6-year old, who has to verbalize every thought that enters her head so that she can process it.
Matt Capps, Ryan Doumit, Chris Snyder, Paul Maholm: whether or not he intended to offer contracts or arbitration, exercise options or trade them, that doesn’t need to be made public knowledge ahead of time, as it weakens his position to act when the time comes because he’s already told the agents and other teams what his plans are.
Neal, for your own good, just STFU.
It's just my two cents. Could be worth more, could be worth nothing.
Good point
however; NH could be putting that out there to strengthen the position in renegotiating a new deal ?
"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente
In fairness to NH, he didn’t really go around talking about the Capps thing. The P-G got a scoop from an anonymous source and ran with it. Technically, I guess that could’ve been NH, but it doesn’t seem likely from his subsequent reaction.
by Vlad on Oct 26, 2011 6:24 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
well it could be
for a guy like Veras who’s arbitration eligible right? If the Pirates weren’t going to offer him
Is it that crazy
To entertain the notion of Sanchez as the starting catcher for 2012? Anything’s possible, I guess, but is he really that underdeveloped in both hitting and defense that it would be an abject failure? Just trying to think outside the box here.
at the plate, IMO
he has legitimate skills behind the plate. people harp about his errors totals, but theyve never seen the guy play.
1. really good feet
2. quick out of the crouch
3. strong arm, yet not a rifle
I saw Sanchez in three games late in the year and was very impressed with his defense, both receiving and throwing. He DID botch a rundown—he got too anxious to chase after the runner and dropped the throw. From what I understand, a lot of his errors are like that, which seems like something he should outgrow with experience.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
Meant to add, I specifically agree with 1-3.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
Never seen Sanchez play, but I’ve read similar reports to #1-3.
Just trying to figure out his performance at the plate. Sanchez’s BABIP took a huge hit last year (down to .285 from what was a career mid-.300’s). His ISO/SLG has been declining with each level, although is BB ratio has been amazingly consistent (~11%). Not sure where that leaves us.
The Pirates’ view is that he was trying too hard to hit HRs. I saw him at the end of the year and, over a four game series (he played three) he probably hit more balls hard than any player on either team. Most of the time it was to center and right-center. I was a little puzzled because, obviously, his #s sucked. I was expecting him to look bad somehow or other. So maybe they had gotten him, by then, more focused on not trying to jack everything. Or maybe it was luck, I dunno. It wasn’t bad pitching. The series was against Bowie, which had ridden a veteran (by AA standards), good pitching staff to the EL playoffs.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
the best thing about Sanchez offense, right now, is his patience
its also his hinderance. he could be sitting on a pitch and letting a fat one go right down his breadbox
Yeah, no.
Even if he’d had a pretty solid (not amazing) year, it would be a really dubious move. As it is, there’s simply no reason to believe that he can do it. Remember when ARam was called up too young? Like that, but with less underlying talent.
True, but Ramirez did put up an .885 OPS in his first full season (age-23). Although, that was preceded by three years and ~600 ABs of .660 OPS, to say nothing about his defense.
I guess my question is, what does it mean to “do it”, in your words.
- Does that mean to put up a comparable line, or an acceptable yet-slightly-less line, to the McKenry/Pagnozzi/Jaramillo/Fryer/etc?
- Even if Doumit or Synder are re-signed for a one-year contract, given the potential for injury, would either of the two really impact the catching stat line, so as to get it out of the realm of something that Sanchez couldn’t put up?
Would starting in 2012 ruin or severely hinder Sanchez’s development? At the plate in 2011, Sanchez had an abysmal June, a poor July, but aside from that put up low-mid .700 OPS’s and had an acceptable K:BB ratio. And yeah.. I know using low 700 OPS as an argument is stretching. It seems like his defense would be average in the majors in 2012, if not above average in successive years due to experience.
Sanchez will be in his age-24 season next year. Worst case scenario we’re looking at a full season in the minors in 2012, a mid-season call up at 25, and his first full season at 26? I know the Sanchez flame is dimming, but that reminds me of the Littlefield developmental track. Yes, he probably wouldn’t have the best season, but, I don’t think any Pirates catcher is going to have the best season in 2012.
To me at least, it’s an interesting notion. But I definitely see the bigger picture that he needs more development (AAA) especially at the plate.
Why Neal would see fit to corner the market on backup catchers is beyond me. Acquiring Cervelli as a starting catcher would be a fireable offense.
The formula is: Backup Catcher X 3 + 3rd String AAA Catcher (Pagnohit) = Starting Catcher.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
now im hoping Pagnozzi makes the team
so we can all forget about “overpaid” and chime in on “pagnohit”
its almost as good as ryan no-mitt
Maybe
there’s going to be a new rule that you can have three catchers on your roster, they all get to hit each time through the lineup, and you get to pick the best result?
But what if the defense gets to pick the worse result?
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
Maybe he wants to combine them, like Voltron?
by Vlad on Oct 25, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
damn you
I was going to make that exact comment.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Oct 25, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
wow
A Voltron reference.
These boards never cease to amaze me…another post it was Monty Python.
This stuff is just damn impressive.
by insane_sanity on Oct 25, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Their forecast for Cervelli isn’t good: A .255/.321/.343 batting line within the Yankees’ park and league context, which translates into a 75 OPS+.
Which, sadly, would probably be an upgrade from Fort/JJ/Pagnohit. Maybe not from JJ, who I think in the end is probably the best of the three. But the (alleged) fact that we’d be looking at Cervelli, if true, is a good illustration of why this team shouldn’t be letting Doumit walk. This is what’s available, and this is why we can say now, without waiting until April, that it’s a mistake.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
I’m half-expecting us to bring in Shoppach and bank on a rebound there. I also read somewhere that John Baker might be non-tendered. He’s a not-great defender who’s coming back from TJ (and a confirmed steroid guy to boot), but he’s hit a little in the not-too-distant past and his health might reduce his other options enough that he’d be willing to sign here if we made him a semi-regular.
isnt Baker a dewshbag too?
I know the father of one of his ex-teammates, who likes to tell stories about his son’s minor league life, and the teammate told his dad that Baker was like two different people depending on whether he was on steroids or off them. So who knows?
how about
we use some of our “assets” that we have drafted the past few years and go acquire Chris Ianetta? (If I’m not mistaken, they have a kid named Pacheco who they could use to catch).
by insane_sanity on Oct 25, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
wow
that would be, at least, a .100 – .200 improvement on our “internal options”.
by insane_sanity on Oct 25, 2011 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
how about we use some of our "assets" that we have drafted the past few years and go acquire Chris Ianetta?
I’m not necessarily opposed to this idea, but there were reports that we inquired about him during last season, and that we felt the Rockies’ price at that time was excessive. As such, I’m not too optimistic about our chances of getting something done on him now.
what about ARENCIBIA of the Jays?
travis d’arnaud is apparently the shit, and will be in AAA next season.
Interesting, but my opinion is that they’ve got control of both for a while…asking price would probably be prohibitive.
by insane_sanity on Oct 25, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
well sure
but then we’d bitch about overpaying.
The problem is this: we have a desperate need at C. There is no way around that fact, and it is well known. That does not bode well for the FO — we will be forced to overpay, whether in the FA market or via trade.
As the FO appears to set values for players that they have no intention of paying over, at least based on past actions I do not see them doing this.
“The Pirates overvalue their prospects, and undervalue those of other teams.”
by insane_sanity on Oct 26, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
To me, that sounds more like a situation where they’d make a move during the 2012-2013 offseason.
by Vlad on Oct 26, 2011 6:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
"like two different people depending on whether he was on steroids or off them"
See, depth problem solved: Baker can be his own backup.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Oct 25, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, maybe, Jesus Flores, though his durability is questionable and there were some reports that his arm might be fucked.
I recall hearing the same about his arm.
by insane_sanity on Oct 25, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
How long will it take next year til the Fort is no longer loved in Pgh.?
It was a nice story for a while, but methinks it will get old quickly in ‘12. He could be a decent backup in the forgettable mix it seems like we might go into the season with, although I’m still hoping they find some better Cs.
パトリック
yep
i think so, too… still he could be a good fit as the guy that starts 3 games in 2 weeks and comes in as a late defensive replacement.
i have no problem with the Fort at all...
im sick to death of ROOT sports replaying the Greg Brown called “MICHEALLLLLLL MCKENRY!!! BABYYYYYYYY!!!!!”
shoot me in the f-ing face already.
Jaramillo ?
anyone ?
"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente
I would call him the front runner right now
there could be worse options (like Tortuga).
by insane_sanity on Oct 25, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
"Jaramillo anyone?"
Sounds like a drink cocktails42 makes when the Pirates are really going bad.
パトリック
Last call!
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Oct 26, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
BTW' Robbie "Gross, Man !" went yard again today
"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente
You know
If this team is gonna make a trade for one of the young Yankees catchers, why not make a move for Romine? He seems to project better than Cervelli, both offensively and defensively and was the second rated Yankee catching prospect behind Montero. The Yanks are deep at catcher in their system. They have a couple other kids in their low minors, namely a kid named Gary Sanchez. This kid looks to be a stud and is probably their long term answer at catcher for the future. I think they would be open to the idea of moving Romine because of their depth at the position. I just don’t want them to give up anything to bring in another less than impressive body to fill the position. I guess I’m tired of the status quo. I want gamers, not filler.
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