Neal Huntington: 'We've Got To Be Willing To Make Some Tough Financial Decisions'
by Charlie Wilmoth on Oct 31, 2011 12:58 PM EDT
Email
PrintI was going to update Davd's fanshot with this, but it's probably worth its own thread. I really hope this is another case of Neal Huntington explaining things to the press in the dumbest way possible, because if not ...
"We've got to be willing to take some chances," Huntington said. "We've got to be willing to make some tough financial decisions. We'll see how it plays out this offseason, but we're confident that we'll end up with a good option."
"Some tough financial decisions"? What? Without adding any free agents, the Pirates' payroll currently projects to be in the $30 million range, depending on who they take to arbitration. (Which proves that a cheap young team can be really cheap if it only has three halfway-reasonable starting pitchers and lacks a catcher, first baseman and shortstop, and arguably a third baseman too.) Maybe Huntington just means that he feels guys like Paul Maholm and Ronny Cedeno cost too much (in which case I'd love to know why he thinks that), but if this is meant to be any kind of commentary on the Pirates' financial situation next year, yikes.
Yes, yes, yes, I know, there are five months before the season starts, anything can happen, etc.
141 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Not sure how to interpret Huntington's statement
We’ve got to be willing to take some chances," Huntington said. "We’ve got to be willing to make some tough financial decisions
Does he mean take chances and possibly overpay on a free agent? Or keep a 35 million dollar payroll and take the fan/media abuse that would follow?
Kamerion Wimbley is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
Yes
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Oct 31, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
It takes a lot of guts
to pocket tens of millions of dollars.
I don’t think I’ve ever accused Nutting of cheapness – it never seemed like most relevant criticism – but I’m edging towards that position.
To be fair, it might not be Nutting’s call on this one, though I can easily see your side. I’m mostly losing faith in NH now.
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-Roberto
by blackjackfishtaco on Oct 31, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
As I say, I’m only edging towards that position (my first line was mostly joke).
But, failing a nine figure bid on a superstar FA, I don’t see how these option refusals make sense outside a financial context. What harm could a $3M contract to Cedeno possibly do to this org? It can’t be make or break on any normal FA acquisition, and it’s not even big enough to block d’Arnaud if he suddenly breaks out. It reeks of saving money for money’s sake. If the Jones rumor is true, that’s an even clearer example (I’ll note here that DK repeatedly suggested that Hurdle wouldn’t want Cedeno back; but that wouldn’t excuse NH, IMO).
i agree with this
I’ve said similar things before, too, and obviously, we can’t reach any conclusions till ST, but the possibility of going cheap is at least more open now than it was before.
The draft spending tells us that it's not money per se
This means that the Pirates are willing to gamble. NH prefers a 5% chance of a significant upgrade at one or more positions (and the 95% chance of a replacement level player) to the sure thing of a slightly above replacement level player (e.g., Maholm and Cedeno). If you play poker with him, you can bet he’s going to bluff a bit.
Viva Clemente!
Interesting take
And this is part of why I’ve never bought int the Cheap Nutting theory.
But boy, this is pushing it.
I’ve never been too impressed with citations to draft spending as evidence that the front office isn’t cheap… To be sure, they could spend a whole lot less on the draft and international signings, but the scale of spending in the draft is different from the scale of spending on big league payroll…
to put it another way, it’s a big deal (financially) if you’re signing a draft pick to a $3 million contract… but the same deal to ronny cedeno is one that can be easily brushed aside… there’s a lot more variance between teams when it comes to major league payroll than there is when it comes to dollars for prospects…
now this isn’t to make an accusation that the pirates ARE, in fact, cheap… and certainly anyone adopting that position has to acknowledge that they could be cheaper… if anything, it underscores the importance of investing in draft picks/international signings for the pirates… but I’ve never been convinced that because the pirates spent a couple million more on draft picks that this one detail alone makes them “not cheap”…
by Captain Easychord on Oct 31, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Very good point
The difference between the Pirates’ draft budget and an average team’s is less than Maholm’s salary.
Just because someone doesn’t buy store brand tunafish doesn’t mean they’re not cheap.
Budget Constraint?
Is it possible that the Pirates lost access to a portion or all of the revenue sharing money because of their draft spending? Just speculating of course, but it’s difficult to comprehend the FO’s strategy.
Can the new CBA be retroactive?
I could feel his muscle tissues collapse under my force. It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm. ~~ Mike Tyson
If you squint
you can see a hint of optimism in that statement.
You could read it as them freeing up money now to be bigger players in FA.
Though that fades when you realize you have 3 holes to fill without legit internal options.
I could feel his muscle tissues collapse under my force. It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm. ~~ Mike Tyson
So the "undisclosed" amount that we offer Pujols
will make it seem as if we are making a serious run, when in actuality we will get Overbay, Randa, Burnitz, and Cota. Right?
Big players!
Was thinking more like Edwin Jackson.
I’m not living in a make believe world where Pujols and Reyes are wearing Pirates jersey’s.
A run at the B level guys seems plausible.
I could feel his muscle tissues collapse under my force. It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm. ~~ Mike Tyson
I like the make believe world much better than this one, though!
Kamerion Wimbley is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
Here, use these...
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Oct 31, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Spitballing ideas
Clint Barmes for SS — Produced a 3.1 fWAR & a 10.8 UZR/150 last year. Great glove could help pitching staff. Only could muster a .698 OPS last year in Don’tCallItEnron Field. in PNC would be another black hole in a batting order that looks to have too many already. Made 3.925 million last year.
Wandy Rodriguez for starting rotation — Would take a trade. Astros are supposedly looking to cut payroll and the Bucs could get a lefty innings eater and certainly boost payroll in doing so.
Derrek Lee at 1st — Bucs are almost certainly gonna make a run at re-siging him. 8 or 8.5 million for a year?
Brandon McCarthy for starting rotation — Took advantage of being signed by Billy Beane on a 1 year/1 million “why the hell not?” deal and ran with it, producing a 4.7 WAR & a 3.30 xFIP. What would he want to come here though? Huge risk of overpaying for a “one hit wonder.”
Ryan Doumit at catcher – Offer arb. Take draft pick or 1 year deal that would keep us from Mike McKenry: Starting Catcher.
Ramon Hernandez at catcher – Still got some pop in his bat and a glove that won’t kill at least. Could start 90 games to keep us from Michael McKenry: Majority Starter. Made 3 million last year. Could he be lured here for 4?
I don’t even know if any of those are good ideas, but I’m just trying to throw some ideas out there to see if I can figure out what strategy is taking shape here.
Kamerion Wimbley is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
all decent ideas
i dont know, as pointed out before, what the taking chances part refers to, but if they are planning to take a shot with 7 years/130M kind of salary at Jose Reyes, all those moves would be nice supplementary moves.
To be honest...
…if I hear any stories like “Pirates prepare serious 9 figure offer for Reyes/Pujols/Fielder/Sabathia” I’ll be annoyed. Because there is almost no amount of money that could get any of them to realistically sign here. If the report were true, it would be a pure P.R. move and nothing more.
I’m not kidding when I say I’m not sure 10 years/300 million could get any of those 4 here.
Kamerion Wimbley is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
it depends on whether
the player in question values winning or money. Still, no harm putting the offer out there if you believe the player will be worth it.
Fielder opting out of NLCS team. CC opting out of Yankees. Pujols opting out of WS champ. Reyes opting out of large market but has stated he wants $$$.
All are clearly in it for the money. If they wanted to win they would stay put (excepting Reyes).
For a second there
I thought you were suggesting a coordinated move to the Pirates. We’d still need a starting catcher, though.
i bet that Arencibia can be had from the Jays
and that Hank Conger could be had from the Angels.
just throwing out some names here.
With Mark Trumbo winning AL Rookie of the Year at 1B...
…the Angels have a guy like Efren Navarro who could now be blocked. They might also be willing to deal Kendrys Morales on the relative cheap. Hell, even Howie Kendrick can play some 1st.
Kamerion Wimbley is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
kendrick to 2B, walker to 3B, pedro to 1B...
isnt that what most people on here want?
for the record, Kendrick can flat out hit. not a good guy drawing walks, but he can rake. i think he becomes a free agent in 2013
I think....
the realistic odds of Lee coming back to Pittsburgh are about 1%. Legitimately may retire and I’ve been told that if he plays, he has a strong desire to be on the west coast because of family ties. Not sure how much I buy that since he signed with Baltimore last year, but apparently that is a factor.
The Hammer Speaks
Extra Innings
Twitter: @DTonPirates and @hammerspeaks
I don't know what to think about Lee
Kovacevic says he’s a guy who 1) won’t rush into a decision and 2) will take all factors into account which includes, salary, team fit, city, location to family etc etc etc.
So if the Bucs made a good enough impression on him and if the price is right…he may. Lee seems to be a big wild card right now.
Kamerion Wimbley is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
I could deal with a year of Lee...
Not like there’s much better out there, frankly.
Kamerion Wimbley is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
oh, i could too
esp if he produces like he did in the 2nd half (which is why i hope we def offer him arb), but he can “lose it” any day now, and the year isn’t likely to be particularly competitive, so in the long run, the draft pick might be more useful.
Here's the thing
Budget/payroll is a constraint, not a goal. For a serious organization, anyway.
In other words, you do what you can within your budget, but the goal is to win games, not to have a pretty bottom line. NH’s “internal valuation” line has always smacked of misunderstanding this issue; today’s news reeks of it.
If the best thing you can say about the 2012 Pirates is that they won 60 games for $25M instead of 75 games for $50M, then you won’t have said anything complimentary. There’s no switch – not even Cole and Taillon arriving together – that will turn a 100-game loser into a 90-game winner in 2013.
Ugh.
by JRoth95 on Oct 31, 2011 1:52 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The worrisome thing is...
…that the front office appears to be banking the team’s future on that very idea, i.e., Cole & Taillon will save us all.
Kamerion Wimbley is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
This team isn’t going anywhere until Cole and Taillon show up, and aving Cedeno and Maholm in the fold would not change that fact. I seriously can’t believe the love for Cedeno. I thought he might have a mini-breakout this season, but it just didn’t happen. He’s not the answer at that position.
No one thinks Cedeno's a long term answer
The problem is that he’s a comfortably above-replacement level player at a reasonable salary for a team like the Bucs, who have no inhouse options as good or better.
Kamerion Wimbley is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
You mentioned Barmes, who played for Hurdle in Colorado. Perhaps Hurdle would prefer a player who hustles and isn’t prone to mental mistakes.
No guarantee Barmes will come here though
Given a choice between definitely having Ronny Cedeno, or having to live with a Chase d’Arnaud/Pedro Ciriaco platoon if the front office strikes out on shortstops in free agency, I’ll take the sure thing.
Kamerion Wimbley is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
of course the front office is banking on Cole and Taillon… they pretty much have to… coming up with superstar young players under team control is pretty much the only way this franchise has a shot at winning anything… by necessity, the pirates’ plans A, B and C are all, “hope the prospects work out well”…
by Captain Easychord on Oct 31, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I still think
we can make a play for Reyes. We should certainly have the money available at least this year and next. While it would take more than 2 years to get him here, if the team continues improving, attendence and other revenues would help pay on years 3 – 5 per say?
I doubt it happens but I really think we “can afford” him now.
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
That speed...
Cutch-Tabata-Reyes would be fun to watch.
…And that doesn’t even include that speed-demon, Pedro Alvarez.
How does taking a run at Reyes somehow make dumping Cedeno for nothing make sense? It’s a crummy $3M option. That’s utility infielder money. And you could always deal him away for another of the failed top prospects of 2006 (as is Pirate tradition).
given reyes’ ongoing hamstring problems, I’m not sure that would be a wise gamble to take…
by Captain Easychord on Oct 31, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Crazy thought.
Any chance we go after Oswalt or Delmon Young? Oswalt would become our ace, though not as good as he once was, and Young would fit in the middle of the lineup.
There was a Jayson Stark piece frommabout two weeks ago that as much as said that he won’t. I’d link it, but I’m on my mobile phone right now.
by Vlad on Oct 31, 2011 4:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
really dont want to see Young trying to play at PNC... ugh.
and just like CShint says, Oswalt will sign with a contender
The news today of this
along with Olney’s tweet about capping draft spending really makes me doubt whether a MLB team can survive in Pittsburgh, and whether MLB even cares if it does.
If a team can win in Tampa
A team can win in Pittsburgh. It just takes a smart front office and a little luck. People can make their own conclusions as to whether the current Pirates have either quality.
once again, Rays selected near the top of the draft for nearly their entire existence, including a four overall #1 picks
their best aquisitions came in later rounds, like shields and hellickson. but you can see that alot of good drafts is the reason for their success.
There's a major element of luck you have to account for
Not to discount the Rays success at draftng and player aquisitions. They have been fantastic and much better comparatively to the Pirates. But eventually the luck will turn the other way, and without the financial resources of a major market, it will be hard to keep up. Its cyclical. Still waiting on our cycle.
So, you agree it's impossible and we should abandon all hope?
Have you already picked out another team>
Nothing is impossible...
let’s just say HIGHLY unlikely.
All of these posible ideas are fun
but they don’t answer the main question. The $3 mil on Cedeno’s option would not preclude a big signing, and if we are planning on going 7/140 or more for a guy, what does 3 mil at the front (less expensive) end of the contract matter?
it doesnt
if anything the Cedeno option should have been the option they picked up. Its doubtful that they sign the big name player, instead maybe they use the 3mil to sign a pitcher or have more to spend on a C or 1b and take d’Arnaud and Wood into the season as the starting SS. Idk, its all guess work until Feb/March 2012
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
If they could somehow sign Reyes..
Move Cedeno to 2nd, Walker to 3rd, give Pedro a shot at 1st, and have Jones be the utility guy, backup in case Pedro fails miserably.
Ronnie has played 81 games at 2nd and has a career fielding % higher than what he has at shortstop (Though the sample size is probably too small?). A move like this would instantly upgrade the defense and offense. It shifts guys around so we’re not looking for a 3B or 1B this off-season.
There’s probably a better allocation of resources out there, but this is a thought..
If they could somehow sign Reyes…
…I’ll be looking for the mark of the devil on NH, because he surely would have to sell his soul to make that happen.
I don’t understand why people waste time with these pointless exercises in “what if the Pirates sign Great Player X”, when we know that what NH will give us is a barely-competent utility infielder who can’t hit a supermodel’s weight, a couple of aging used-to-be-passable corner IF/OF looking for a last paycheck on their way to retirement and a questionable SP whose arm is held on by spit and chewing gum?
What actual MLB-caliber free agent is going to come to a team like this, that has few other legitimate MLB-level players on it? The actions of today reveal this management team and ownership as the sham that they are, as their forward strategy is apparently to hope and pray that Taillon, Cole and Heredia don’t blow out their arms on the way to the majors, which, as far as plans go, is somewhere in the neighborhood of:
Step One: Steal underpants.
Step Two:
Step Three: Profit.
It's just my two cents. Could be worth more, could be worth nothing.
Normally I'd agree
Except I think it’s at least a POSSIBILITY, considering the amount of payroll they are inexplicably shedding in a season when they had to have one of the largest profits of Nutting’s tenure and going into a season where they raise ticket prices for the first time in a decade.
I realize that the most probably scenario is that this is just another “internal valuation” exercise, but there is at least a chance this signals a bigger play.
Or at least that’s what I’ll tell myself to keep myself from smoking again.
This isn't a legit major league lineup?
1. Reyes 2. Presley/Walker 3. Cutch 4. Lee 5. good Pedro 6. Presley/Walker 7. Tabata 8. C
Sprinkle in some Jones, add a cheap SP or two and bam! who knows
That's a decent line-up, except...
A. They will never, eeeeeeeeeeevvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrr get Jose Reyes. Stop deluding yourself.
B. Derrek Lee was none too pleased about being traded here, so why do you think he will return? If anything, his reasonably good play at the end of the year might convince another team that has a chance to contend to extend him an offer.
C. Let’s see Average Pedro for a while before thinking we might go from Putrid Pedro to Good Pedro in one offseason.
D. Cheap SP or two. Because those are just so easy to find on the open market, and even if they were, don’t you think other teams, that can give them better chances to win, will probably make them offers?
It's just my two cents. Could be worth more, could be worth nothing.
Don't say never...
I could see Neal trying to sign Reyes in 2022. Of course, Reyes will be pushing 40 by then.
Ya know a lineup with
Cutch, Tabata, Presley, and D’a sure would be fun to watch on the bases
I could feel his muscle tissues collapse under my force. It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm. ~~ Mike Tyson
watching d'Arnaud on the bases hasn't been much of an issue so far
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Oct 31, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But watching him play shortstop has been a bit of an issue
I don’t see that as the plan.
Viva Clemente!
limited playing time, brotha
remember when cedeno was fairly awful back with the cubs, and even in 2009 with our Bucs? not exactly Wilsonesque
players can improve, despite what FIPS, BLIPS, zDAPS or whatever thinks.
I try to be zen about all things Pirates.
I don’t expect to see a winner again in what’s left of my lifetime.
That said, they’re really testing my patience.
As far as I can see, they’re basically sending the message that they will never, ever pay market value for a veteran player. As Charlie notes, there’s no way on earth they couldn’t afford Cedeno, and they’re vitually guaranteed to suffer a downgrade at SS without him. The only conclusion I can draw is that they’re absolutely determined never to end up with any contract that’s not a bargain. And they can’t be competitive like that.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
The irony, of course
Is that, in the effort to constantly find bargains, they end up with contracts like $5mm for Lyle Overbay and $4mm for Ramon Vasquez.
While standing in line behind...
…Joe Randa, Jeromy Burnitz, Derek Bell, Raul Mondesi and a host of others.
It's just my two cents. Could be worth more, could be worth nothing.
As long as we're playing this game...
Mark. Cuban. ;-)
maybe NH will try and sign a couple of these guys to better deals?
we have no idea whats going to happen.
i for one am going to be on pins and needles until the winter meetings get here.
Right now I'm hoping some of this freed money...
…is going to a Cutch deal that buys out a year or two of free agency
Kamerion Wimbley is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
Just today I asked a Giants fan friend of mine...
….“Pretend you’re Brian Sabean & I’m Neal Huntington. I call you and offer Andrew McCutchen for Madison Bumgarner. How quickly do you hang up?”
His response: “As quick as I can after I recover breath from laughing hysterically.”
Kamerion Wimbley is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
lol
i can dream, right? most guys on here think thats underselling Cutch. they dont realize that giants fans believe that would be underselling Bum.
Rays traded Delmon Young
for Garza/Bartlett.
I mean you would have to assume Cutch would have similar value right?
I could feel his muscle tissues collapse under my force. It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm. ~~ Mike Tyson
ehhh, they traded a doofus for a hot headed pitcher
cutch could bring back an ACE type arm, depending on the other team of course, or he could bring back 3 really good prospects.
would be tough to do, but worth exploring. but ONLY if Marte is ready.
im not a big believer in Starling, but hes been proving me wrong for over a year now.
Delmon was basically still a prospect
Cutch is way more established and provides way more defensive value.
I'm thinking they might take another shot at the Japanese market
The big clubs will line up for Darvish, leaving some bargains.
by sanny manguillen on Oct 31, 2011 4:42 PM EDT reply actions
Darvish's numbers in Japan are sick! i dont think he'll keep it up here, but dang!
i could see them taking a flyer on a midlevel arm.
I can't see them dealing with the posting system
it will take millions just to start the negotiating process, then you add in the contract. I don’t see this in the FO’s plans.
by Wizard of Woz on Nov 1, 2011 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Siezmore
Maybe taking chances means signing Siezmore to play corner outfield. I could live with that making Presley a fourth outfielder.
Offering Lee arbitration might be taking a chance too. If he takes it then you are stuck paying too much money, but if he declines then you get a comp pick. It’s a chance that I would take.
by SojourningPirate on Oct 31, 2011 5:39 PM EDT reply actions
i think Sizemore needs to get out of the outfield. DH or 1B from now on... emergency outfielder if necessary
his knees are worse than Snyder’s back.
I'd take him . . .
I’d take him at 1B. His average is much higher than anyone we had this year with a power that Overbay did not have. Better than Pearce or Jones.
by SojourningPirate on Oct 31, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Aaron Harang has $5m option declined.
very similar numbers to Maholm this year, hometown boy (in SD) and they wouldn’t even pay him 1/2 of Pauley’s option. We might get a bargain yet.
He'd be about as good as most our other realistic options
but I meant it moreso to show that Maholm wasn’t worth $10m than to present another option to sign.
Bookmarking this
There will almost certainly be 2 pitchers signed this offseason for less than $9M who outproduce Paulie. Actually signing both of them, and nobody else, is a different story.
What the Yanks did with Garcia and Colon isn’t a benchmark; it’s a high water mark.
by JRoth95 on Oct 31, 2011 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Derek Lowe
acquired for an A+ reliever and $5m of salary relief. Would not have minded that price at all.
In Neal's case...
he might trade for Mark Lowe, thinking he’s trading for Derek [/sarcasm]
I'd far rather have Mark
The only team Derek can beat any more is the Pirates.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
I think Neal and Frank brought in some consultants to help out with this offseason.
Was able to get this photo of them from someone in the Pirates front office:
You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu
by IAPiratesFan on Oct 31, 2011 6:12 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Found at the bottom of Ronny's locker:
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Oct 31, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
How about these ideas for our needs?
Shortstop: Make a run at Reyes. Not very likely but why not give it a shot? But figuring that doesn’t go through i think Rafael Furcal would be a good fit. Not a real big risk (only concern would be health) but a much more productive batter than Cedeno.
Catcher: Ramon Hernandez. Veteran that still has some pop. Not bad defensively, and would be a good fit all around for the club. (Possibly be a big veteran help to Tony Sanchez during Spring Training)
First Base: Derek Lee. Had great production once he was traded here. As we could see still had great power and is also a veteran leader. If not we should peruse Carlos Pena. Struggles with the average but still a 20-30 home run guy which the team desperately needs.
Pitcher: Francis would be the most reasonable fit. Still only 30 years old. Wouldn’t be too much money and would add much needed depth to the rotation.
Just some thoughts. What do you guys think?
I can’t imagine that Furcal’s “internal value” to NH is going to be anywhere near $13M (his 2011 salary) considering his health record. And I can’t see Furcal dropping his value to what Neal thinks it should be.
Hernandez is a possibility, although I’m not keen on 36 year old catchers.
Lee…first you have to convince him to play in 2012…then you have to convince him to play for less than what he did last year…then you have to convince him to play in Pittsburgh. I expect at least one of these to not happen.
Francis…do we really need a guy that hasn’t had his ERA below 4.82 since 2007…and has only been below 4.50 twice in his ML career? I thought we needed GOOD pitchers.
Not a real big risk (only concern would be health)
That, and performance (33 last year, coming off an 80 OPS+), and behavior (a serious drinking problem).
Just some thoughts. What do you guys think?
Francis’s arm scares me, and he’s the only one of the four I’d see as being willing to sign here.
and behavior (a serious drinking problem).
Are you calling me an alcoholic? ’Cause I can totally quit any time I want.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 1, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
There’s nothing wrong with tipping a few from time to time, but when you get pulled over for driving 90 at 4 in the morning with a BAC of .127 while you’re still on probation for another drunk driving arrest earlier that month, you’ve got issues. Issues like Furcal’s.
I would gladly welcome Miguel Cabrera though...
I could feel his muscle tissues collapse under my force. It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm. ~~ Mike Tyson
Oh. Well.
That’s okay then.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 1, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah man.
Have me come over and drink all the beer that you want to quit drinking.
You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu
I can quit any time I want...
I just don’t want.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 2, 2011 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Some random bits...
1. Increased attendance and Pirates gear sales should mean some extra money in the till.
2. Ticket prices have increased.
3. The front office has been parting ways with almost every player possible.
4. Tim’s guesstimate of current payroll is around $28 million.
5. Jen thinks eventual payroll will be north of $50 million.
6. I never really thought Nutting was/is cheap.
Maybe something is happening.
Maybe not.
It's a nice thought
But I don’t see how they can afford a splashy, surprise signing and to fill all the holes they’ve created/allowed to open. Even if they keep Jones, they still need a RH 1B, a viable 3B, a C, an SS, and a couple SPs.
Everyone seems to be forgetting about trades.
Fill some gaps with trades, fill some gaps with signings. This really is the only way we’ll get any impact players… either trade to fill most of your gaps and sign an impact player, or vise versa.
I’m also thinking that this is a unique position for the FO… this past season was completely different from the previous seasons.
OR for some reason I am a hopeless optimist.
I could feel his muscle tissues collapse under my force. It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm. ~~ Mike Tyson
I am inclined to believe that NH just about has to make some trades with prospects. There are just too many guys that need to be protected from the Rule V draft. We have a bunch of open spots on the 40 now, but one would think/hope that some of them will be filled with FA pickups some time shortly after the opening of Free Agency. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a decent sized splash made with a prospect heavy trade during the winter meetings.
Except
the other teams know we have an impending roster crunch; they negotiate from the strong position of knowing that we need to move prospects or (most likely) lose them in the Rule 5.
I’m not saying – at all – that no deals can be made. I’m just saying that we’re in a relatively weak position – and weaker now, since we have more holes to fill. Remember what Neal said about outrageous demands being made for catchers last summer? I don’t think trade partners are going to be any less cutthroat this winter. They’ll know that our choices are A. overpay an FA, B. overpay in a trade, or C. overplay McKenry, Pags, JJ, and Fryer. Same deal with all the other positions.
You are absolutely correct, Ronny Cedeno was NOT the long-term answer at SS for the Pirates.
How does that make a not picking up this option the RIGHT thing to do? It is 1-year, and only $3m. I think that, AT THE LEAST, the option would have provided us with reasonably priced hedge against d’Arnaud/Mercer not being ready at the beginning of 2012.
by insane_sanity on Nov 1, 2011 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions
But where else is he realistically going to go? If we find we don’t have any other real option, they could bring him back.
I could feel his muscle tissues collapse under my force. It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm. ~~ Mike Tyson
And if he signs elsewhere, and we find we don’t have any other real option, we’re going to run d’Arnaud/Mercer out there all season.
Believe me, for $3m I’ll bet there are a good few teams out there willing to pick him up. Hell, we paid Vasquez $4m/2yrs to be a utility guy, didn’t we?
by insane_sanity on Nov 1, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
At this point I'm not losing sleep.......
…..over any of these players HOWEVER, I reserve the right to vomit, cuss and complain when I see what the opening day roster is comprised of…..
by Marooned Pirate on Nov 1, 2011 11:39 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Boys Boys Boys you aught not be doing that
Think that’s a line from Dennis Hopper from Texas Chainsaw Masscre sequel. If Huntington intends to fill SS, CATCHER, STARTER, 3RD BASE, 1ST BASE with internal options or less costly free agent talent , he should be annointed the next messiah. He’ll be changing water to wine by Spring Training. Not picking up Cedeno’s 3 million option boggles the minds. We have no internal option that is ready. No free agent of comparable skill set would be cheaper. C’mon. Maholm is a little pricey but again who is available that would improve the team at what Maholm would cost. I can see letting Snyder go d/t the nature of his injury and his position. Letting Doumitt go as well leaves too big a hole. I’ve always wanted to trade the " Glass Man" but not without the ability to bring in someone comparable or someone who could catch and at least hit a little. Guess the push to win 70 bancrupted the franchise. See you at 100 losses next year. Looks like the fruition of Huntington’s Plan to bring consistent Championship Caliber baseball to Pittsburgh. Maybe his plan is to lose 100 games for a few more years so that we can play roulette with the Pirates numb nut scouts placing bets in the Draft. We will draft outside of the top 5 next year. Too low. Maybe we can load up on lower round picks in pitching again. The pitchers will have to buy tickets to get into the minor league pens. Increase revenue. I didn’t think losing Cedeno would piss me off but to intimate it is due to expense is ludicrous.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bucs Dugout
Related FanShots on Bucs Dugout
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Roy Halladay bobblehead with glove on wrong hand selling on MLB.com
- Will Smith shows why making your big league debut at Yankee Stadium is less than ideal
- Steinbrenners selling the Yankees? Family denies New York Daily News report
- The Juice: Brandon Phillips flip sets up Todd Frazier walkoff for Reds
- Josh Hamilton makes great catch, destroys part of fence at Safeco Field
