Burres, Hart, Pearce & Wood Outrighted to AAA
And thus all can opt to declare free agency.
The housecleaning continues.
UPDATE by Charlie: Aaron Thompson is off the roster as well.
7 months ago
Raybin
107 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
Of course we can really only look forward to...
…reasonably clean second-hand furniture being used to fill up the aforesaid scrubbed house.
Kamerion Wimbley is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
but the furniture we had was scotchguarded
sure, its a good selling point, but it really doesnt help protect it in the long run
There’s still Thompson, XP, what’s-’is-name, and that catcher who was only going to be here for two weeks. Plenty of random flotsam.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
+1
Clear it out, protect the specs.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
by Kosstic518 on Oct 31, 2011 5:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think thay
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
by Kosstic518 on Nov 1, 2011 6:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think that guys like Brian Burres would be the last possible people I would protect.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
by Kosstic518 on Nov 1, 2011 6:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh sure, Burres
But my point was that “clear it out, protect the specs” suggests that they actually are going to need to protect a vast number of prospects. At some point, an Xavier Paul actually is more valuable to your org than some slap-hitting UT whose been bouncing around A+ for a couple seasons.
Because, even though we’re punting 2012, we still need at least 8 position players and a half dozen pitchers on the ML roster.
How about a AAA SS who’s good defensively and led the farm system in HRs this year? Because that’s the sort of guy who’s on the bubble and who might be lost in order to retain a slap-hitting 5th outfielder who hit worse than the team’s pitchers as a pinch-hitter.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
by WTM on Nov 1, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
We have 15 spots for minor leaguers
Period. We could cut everyone on the ML depth chart below Presley and that doesn’t open up any more spaces for guys who are deeper than #15 in the minor leagues.
Now, if you’re saying that Bocock or whoever is ready to make the 25-man, and so we have to cut Paul for him, then sure, why not? But cutting Paul doesn’t make more slots to protect minor-leaguers unless it includes promoting a minor leaguer to take his place.
And maybe Gorkys will do that. But my point was never to say that the team is doomed with Burres or Paul or Wood. It was that cutting those guys won’t magically make players appear, nor change the hard numbers of the 25-man and 40-man rosters.
But cutting Paul doesn’t make more slots to protect minor-leaguers unless it includes promoting a minor leaguer to take his place.
Which we could without really losing anything by promoting Gorkys, since Paul isn’t a particularly good player.
What, you couldn't read til the end?
I specifically mentioned Gorkys.
No one has even touched my central point: we need 25 MLBers for 2012, plus a handful of guys ready to step in. Protecting 15 MiLers who aren’t ready for MLB doesn’t actually work. See Aramis Ramirez, ca. 1998.
Bocock? Who said anything about him? Why do you keep giving ludicrous examples, like Bocock or a class A utility player, when it’s obvious nobody is talking about players like that? Can’t you make a point without relying on straw men?
There are at least 24 players on the roster who are as qualified to play in the majors now as XP is, in nearly all cases far more so. That’s not counting Ohlie, who’s likely to be non-tendered, or players who clearly aren’t ready for the majors, like d’Arnaud, Gorkys, Locke and Fryer. That’s also not including XP or Pagnohit, another guy who urgently needs to come off the roster. It’s also not counting Hague, who probably is ready for the majors, and isn’t on the roster but should ultimately be. The team is just about guaranteed to add 4-5 major league players during the off-season, the majority of them position players. I don’t see any plausible reason they’d have to hang onto XP just to fill out a 25-man roster.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
by WTM on Nov 1, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Next time I'm going to say "jetsam."
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
Ruh-roh, Rorge!
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Oct 31, 2011 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
not impressed until you get to “lagan” and “derelict”… actually, “derelict” seems like an appropriate description of this particular pirate ship…
by Captain Easychord on Nov 1, 2011 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I may be in the minority here
But I really hope they are able to hang on to Wood. He looked a little better as the year progressed. Next year is more or less a lost season, so why not see if he can continue to make steps in the right direction.
Given that Cedeno seems to be all but gone, and that our best in-house options at short besides Wood are d’Arnaud and Ciriaco, I must agree.
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
ARE YOU F#$%ING KIDDING ME!!!! ADAMS!!! JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST YOU HAD 24 SQUARE FEET AND YOU MISSED IT ALL!! - OlenWhitaker
Certified Grabbo Lover, though only by accident.
Total Internet Points: 9001
Harrison trying out SS
Did i not read somewhere that Harrison was taking some practice at SS? He would be a decent back up to 3B and SS. I don’t think more AAA time would do him any good.
So if that is true, then I don’t see the need for Wood. He is only a back up.
by SojourningPirate on Oct 31, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Harrison was working on SS in the instructional leagues, and probably if he plays any winter ball.
i think we’ll see some of that come spring training. if Harrison’s future is at utility, where he is best suited, then improving at SS would greatly increase his value.
Yeah, but nothing but utility
He’s not a guy you’d want to see in there for more than an inning or three at a time. I could be wrong, of course, but I’d be shocked if he could play 9 innings without being exposed.
I must say, I was surprised with Wood’s SS defense. I still wouldn’t want him to be a starter, but he could start the odd game.
I felt better about him going away before Ronny was cut.
i agree with you here because i always saw potential in wood. i mean he wasnt the angels top prospect for along time for no apparent reason before trout came along. and he was a top 10 MLB prospect. so he HAS potential, just needs to be tapped into it. the guy is only 26 years old too and people are starting to give up on him. his stance was altered a bit too sometime in the middle of the season and changed his hitting numbers from what im aware of (thats when he showed his power potential with those few games where he kept ripping HR’s). do i dare say it because I am one of many people who hate hearing his name associated with the pirates…..jose bautista. granted he’s an extreme outlier and was awful during his tenure with the buccos and never showed any promise, but everyone ALWAYS brings up his name saying “we traded away a good player” when all of us long time buccos fans know he was an average big leaguer at best with the buccos
awful?
I think a lot of us would be happy if Pedro had as “awful” a season with the Purates next year has Jose had ‘06 or ’07. Also lets remember that a lot of us aren’t upset about the Bautista thing because we thought he would turn into a superstar, no one could know that. The upsetting thing is that they gave up a young, decent major league player for nothing because they didn;t want to take him to arb, and pay the going rate. A lot like what we’re seeing today with Maholm, Doumit, Cedeno, et al…
Are you upset we got rid of Andy?
Exactly.
You are speaking in 400% hindsight. Bautista was nothing.
Bautista was not nothing
In fact, his numbers indicated that he was versatile utility man who would have been an excellent bench piece for a playoff team. He was better than everyone else we had at his main position, third base.
But of course management made the right move anyway you are saying, giving him up for nothing essentially because their own internal value for him didn’t match the market. Real bright operators these guys must be. How did it work out for them?
He was not obviously better than everyone else we had at third base
In his three years as a Pirate, Bautista put up less (Fangraphs) WAR than Andy LaRoche did as a Pirate. And that’s counting LaRoche’s two year as a black hole of suck as well as his year of competence.
I don’t want to say that WAR ends the argument here — Bautista loses a lot for his defensive numbers, which are not terribly exact. But by at least one measure, his numbers did not indicate that he was better than the alternatives at third base, or at all particularly useful.
Losing him for nothing was bad, but let’s not pretend this isn’t hindsight.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Nov 1, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Gah
Stop fucking claiming that every discussion of Bautista is nothing but “hindsight”. You and everybody. It drives me insane, and it’s cheap and dishonest. I disliked the move at the time. That wasn’t “hindsight”, because subsequent events hadn’t happened yet. It was a move that did nothing to improve the club, and there was never any chance that it would. NH defenders would have argued at the time that JB was easy to replace, but in fact NH failed to do so – as Vlad helpfully reminds us by mentioning the sub-[pre-2010]Bautista players who actually took his place.
It was a perfectly defensible move, but it wasn’t a no-brainer, and it wasn’t immune from criticism. To claim that criticism must be hindsight is a lie.
Superope wasn’t even speaking about the trade. But calling Bautista a “young, decent major leaguer” and Diaz “nothing” is certainly hindsight.
He was a guy who had shown brief flashes of usefulness but wasn’t useful and was due to make legit $$ for our team (we won’t even pay our starting SS this same amount 3 years later).
It was no different than Pearce or Andy or Milledge. Ohlie is probably a better player at this point in time than Bautista, about to go through the exact same thing and I don’t see anyone clamoring for him to be retained at his price.
The claim was "his numbers indicated that he was versatile utility man who would have been an excellent bench piece for a playoff team"
This, as Vlad pointed out, is only true in hindsight (or rather not true at all, since we’re talking about what his numbers were at the time). His numbers indicated that he was an absolutely miserable defender at 3B and wasn’t hitting enough to carry his glove.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Nov 1, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
versatile utility man
There’s a difference between a guy with positional versatility and a guy who keeps getting moved around because he’s not any good at fielding anywhere on the diamond. We aren’t talking about Tony Phillips here.
(Bautista was a fairly solid glove in LF/RF, but his bat wasn’t anything special for those positions at that time. He was about one notch above Delwyn Young, in that he could play a bad-but-maybe-tolerable 2B/3B, instead of being an outright disaster as an IF.)
maybe-tolerable may be generous
If you look at his 06-07 UZRs.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Nov 1, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I have been super annoying by the several articles I’ve seen about the “versatile” Michael Cuddyer. Playing multiple positions horribly does not actually make him much more useful.
by thecheeseisblue on Nov 1, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Langosch raises a good point re: Rule 5 -
Both Wood and Pearce were going to be eligible for the first time this winter, but the Pirates did not plan to tender either infielder a contract by the Dec. 12 deadline. By parting ways with the two players, the Pirates open up roster space that can be filled by new signees or prospects the organization wants to protect from the Rule 5 Draft.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
Wood and Pearce rule 5 eligible for the first time?
That doesnt sound right… I guess she means they wouldnt have options left…
And they haven’t parted ways yet, have they?
Yes, options
I left that part out of the quote as I thought it to be common knowledge.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Oct 31, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
i'd have thought Wood have a good chance at being on the ML roster here
from his perspective it seems like a good idea… although he might want a better RHH park
If I were playing baseball....
I’d give Houston a Little League Boxes discount.
You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu
by IAPiratesFan on Oct 31, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
both will be eligible
for minor league FA this year, so whether or not they’re officially gone yet doesn’t really matter. They’ll be gone soon enough, if not already.
When she says "eligible" there...
…she means eligible for arbitration.
by Vlad on Oct 31, 2011 5:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If Cedeno is gone
Wood is still one of our best internal options at SS. Ciriaco has a plus glove but walks about 5 times a year and has zero power. d’Arnaud’s glove is fine, but likely can’t hit RHP in MLB (is OK vs LHP). Jordy Mercer will also be in the mix, and so far looks to produce about the same as Cedeno, a 280 wOBA (238/279/366) with a +8 glove according to THT Forecasts.
Unless we bring in someone, no upgrade at SS
by Brian Cartwright on Oct 31, 2011 5:33 PM EDT reply actions
He's OK as a backup
but maybe no one makes him an offer any better than he’s getting here. But Wood’s still no better than d’Arnaud of Mercer unless he finds a 25 HR stroke. Having written that, maybe he’d like a place with a shorter LF.
by Brian Cartwright on Oct 31, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Kevin Hart
Easy to forget about him, I know.
by Vlad on Oct 31, 2011 6:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Kevin Hart
often injured SP from Cubs in Gorzo trade, along with Ascanio & Harrison
by Brian Cartwright on Oct 31, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
He was
kidding.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Oct 31, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Funny thing is
People assume he was off in a jacuzzi nursing the arm. The few weeks of the season, he was here.
by ATribeCalledGreg on Oct 31, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
ouch.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Oct 31, 2011 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. Glad to see him get the chance to suck and get hurt constantly somewhere else :)
by pskell02 on Oct 31, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Wow...
did he jilt your sister at the altar or something?
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Oct 31, 2011 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
No
He jilted us.
I’m joking, but he could have made a difference in 2011. No DY bad throw to blame this time, he just sucked big time. I’ll miss him as finely as I do Eldred and House. And Johnson and Garcia, for that matter.
which Garcia would that be?
Carlos was my childhood hero because I played second base in Little League the year he went to the ASG in Pittsburgh.
Make it five...
Aaron Thompson also got the same treatment.
Oh noes!!
Not Aaron . . . uh . . . who?
Meanwhile, XP, Pedro Emptyrosterspot and Matt Pagnohit are trying not to be smug.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
"I wouldn't join any club that'd have me as a member."
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
by WTM on Oct 31, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
trying not to be smug
That makes me think of this:
Which is probably a fair representation of the process.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Oct 31, 2011 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You are awesome
for remembering that Larson himself praised this cartoon for the subtly smug look he managed for the dog.
The Far Side is freaking awesome.
I bought the entire Far Side collection books this past spring. Almost $100 on Amazon, but totally worth it.
You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu
by IAPiratesFan on Nov 1, 2011 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
the guy who's been in Double-A for 5 years
or close to it….we might get down to 20 guys on the roster
by Brian Cartwright on Oct 31, 2011 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Ooh, I have an explanation
The new CBA will feature a 26 man extended roster. NH is getting ahead of the game.
Glad I read this blog before
MLB Trade Rumors, which headlined option choices thusly:
Outrighted: Thompson, Burton, Pirates, Tigers
By Tim Dierkes [October 31 at 3:55pm CST]
Thought the new CBA included the long-awaited Major Leauge contraction…
What does that mean?!
by Trogluddite on Oct 31, 2011 9:23 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
regarding the Rule 5 draft, how many roster spots are open now?
by my count, there are now 10 vacancies on the 40-man roster — Cedeno, Doumit, Lee, Ludwick, Maholm, Snyder (5 free agents), plus the 5 outrighted folks mentioned above
i think
WTM and Thunder mentioned that when you include players who will have to come off the DL, there will be about 35 (or 34 after Thompson) on the roster.
Apparently...
the only one that hasn’t come off the DL is Correia. I do notice that Lee, Ludwick and Thompson are still listed on the roster at Pirates.com.
Lee and Ludwick officially became FAs Sunday. Maybe outright waivers haven’t cleared on Thompson yet (but they would tomorrow)?
So, after Correia gets activated, it will be 35, prior to non-tenders (sure there will be a few), and prior to adding the minor leaguers.
thanks, I'd forgotten about the DL
Correia will definitely have to be added; however, some folks finished the season on the DL but then were removed from the roster (Hart, Maholm, Pearce, Snyder).
Yahoo.com’s Pirates roster is as follows:
Pitchers (16): Grilli, Hanrahan, Hughes, Karstens, Leroux, Lincoln, Locke, No Relation, McDonald, Meek, Morton, Moskos, Ohlendorf (!!!), Resop, Veras, Watson
Catchers (4): Fryer, Jaramillo, McKenry, Pagnozzi
Infileders (6): Alvarez, Ciriaco, d’Arnaud, Harrison, Jones, Walker
Outfielders (4): McCutchen, Paul, Presley, Tabata
DL (1): Correia
that’s a total of 31, including Ohlendorf
ugh, that's what I get for trusting Yahoo
add 2 pitchers (McPherson, Morris) and 1 OF (Hernandez), and the 40-man roster is currently at 34 players
In my experience, MLB.com’s rosters are really the only ones that can be trusted for stuff like that.
Eh.
I’ve usually had pretty good luck with MLBDepthCharts. (And wouldn’t you know it, they have us at 34 now.)
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
ARE YOU F#$%ING KIDDING ME!!!! ADAMS!!! JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST YOU HAD 24 SQUARE FEET AND YOU MISSED IT ALL!! - OlenWhitaker
Certified Grabbo Lover, though only by accident.
Total Internet Points: 9001
so who is likely to be added to the 40-man roster, to protect from the Rule 5 draft?
if 6 spots are open (subject to change, of course), and referring to Tim Williams’ recent article:
Must Protect:
Starling Marte
Jordy Mercer
Rudy Owens
Justin Wilson
that leaves just two spots left, presumably for Matt Hague and either Aaron Pribanic or Andrew Lambo.
there are some more spots to be opened up
there’s no reason to carry 4 catchers on the 40 man at this point, and one of pagnozzi, mckenry or jaramillo will likely come off. One of the relievers may also come off via non tender.
Jose ascanio and Olson might be fringe candidates for the roster. (depending on how things shake out with starters in the FA market. I’d certainly protect Lorin and Welker, Colla and Alderson must be right on the fence…
had a good year
i know he’s old, but he could be ready this year, throws hard, so a FO prototype in that regard… Cardenas does have to be protected, and could be. They seem about even and Cardenas being younger might do it…
Ramon Cabrera and Carlos Paulino are also eligible.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
by WTM on Nov 2, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that’s right. Tim and I went back and forth on this at one point, I think.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
by WTM on Nov 3, 2011 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
why protect Welker?
He throws very hard, and he made significant progress with his command this year (though it’s still not great). That’s the profile of a guy who gets taken.
He throws very hard and is an extreme groundball pitcher.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
by WTM on Nov 3, 2011 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
i thought about Moreno
and dont know what to make of him… the FO has certainly been reluctant to move him upward. It seems each of the past 2 years, we’ve discussed that he might end the year on or on the doorstep of the ML roster. His AA performance over 2 years (SSS) has also not been good, although this is primarily due to hits and HRs (his K/BB was good).
As such, I don’t know what to think— if the FO believes he has the stuff, they may well protect him, but his star seems to be falling to me.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Roy Halladay bobblehead with glove on wrong hand selling on MLB.com
- Will Smith shows why making your big league debut at Yankee Stadium is less than ideal
- Steinbrenners selling the Yankees? Family denies New York Daily News report
- The Juice: Brandon Phillips flip sets up Todd Frazier walkoff for Reds
- Josh Hamilton makes great catch, destroys part of fence at Safeco Field
