Pirates Reportedly Could Pursue Ramon Santiago

by Charlie Wilmoth on Nov 11, 2011 11:15 PM EST

FOX Sports reports that the Pirates could pursue Ramon Santiago to fill the void at shortstop left by Ronny Cedeno. This sounds fine to me - Santiago is a good defender at either middle infield position, and he's also pretty decent with the bat. I'd think he also wouldn't cost too much, since he's never really established himself as an everyday player. I still wish the Pirates would have kept Cedeno around for the low price they were getting, but Santiago is probably the better player. (Having both of them would have been ideal.) Cedeno is a few years younger, but otherwise Santiago is the superior option. It does sound like there's a chance the Tigers could re-sign him, but the Pirates might be able to lure him with the promise of an everyday gig.

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Santiago's a 1.5-2 WAR guy in the AL, so I think he could be pretty effective for us.

I don’t know about what a fair deal would be, though.

Something like two years at $4.5M with a team option for $5M in a third year? Maybe too much.

No jinx no jinx no jinx.

by Suffering Buc on Nov 11, 2011 11:30 PM EST reply actions

2-3 years for f**king Ramon Santiago?

by Tim Wiliams on Nov 11, 2011 11:47 PM EST up reply actions

I should probably remind people that the Pirates just signed Rod F’ing Barajas for 4M dollars. It’s not exactly a buy-low market, guys.

No jinx no jinx no jinx.

by Suffering Buc on Nov 12, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions

How about zero years for Ramon Santiago?

by Tim Wiliams on Nov 11, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions

MAYBE too much?? Santiago made $1.3M last year. They keep saving money on guys like Barajas and Santiago, they might be able to bid on Pujols or Fielder to fill the 1B black hole. Of course, he’d make more than the rest of the roster combined.

by Thunder on Nov 11, 2011 11:54 PM EST up reply actions

How would the $4M they save

by signing Barajas over Doumit, and Santiago over Cedeno help them sign Albert Pujols for $28M?

by KentuckyPirate on Nov 12, 2011 9:41 AM EST up reply actions

Gotta start somnewhere.

by bucdaddy on Nov 12, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions

And you subtract the money they aren’t paying Snyder and Maholm this season…and it starts to add up pretty quickly.

by Thunder on Nov 12, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions

Of course

we’d have to pay him that kind of money for the following 10 to 12 years as well. At least if we had any hope to sign him.

by MDBuc on Nov 12, 2011 6:37 PM EST up reply actions

yeah

I think he’d be a solid signing for us. Much like Barmes, he’s a decent player who will probably be undervalued by the market. He’s an average-ish fielder at SS, an average-ish baserunner, and an average-ish-for-a-SS hitter, but he probably won’t get paid like an average-ish SS because the Tigers never used him that way.

He’s actually been worth 2.4 WAR per 600 PA over the last three years, so 1.5-2 WAR seems like a reasonable projection for him. I have no idea what he might sign for, but if he can be had for something like the 2/7 the Twins just gave Jamey Carroll, that would be a good signing for the Bucs.

by epoc on Nov 12, 2011 12:26 AM EST up reply actions

i first thought they were going to sign benito santiago

by schraderfan on Nov 11, 2011 11:49 PM EST reply actions

they tried that, too. Trade, actually.

by Thunder on Nov 11, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions

I like to play around with the Baseball-Reference similarity scores. It’s not scientific, but I’ve found that when the most similar are hopeless, the player tends to be nearly done. Of Santiago’s ten most similar through age 31, only one ever played a season as regular after age, and that was Frank O’Rourke who played in the 1920s. I’d pass on him as a starter.

by sanny manguillen on Nov 12, 2011 12:11 AM EST reply actions

I think

The sin scores are only offensive. So, if we are looking at a glove first player, they are fairly irrelevant

by Wizard of Woz on Nov 12, 2011 10:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

The hardcore Tigers fan I work with

says he’s a better fielder than Cedeno and no worse with the bat. Yeah, he’s older, too, but he’s really just a stopgap between now and Mercer or D’Arnaud or whoever is going to be the shortstop on the 2014 world championship team.

by bucdaddy on Nov 12, 2011 2:32 AM EST reply actions

and the type

who will probably be ok with it if he gets his PT reduced midseason just in case one of our internal options steps up their game.

by Mr. E on Nov 12, 2011 3:35 AM EST up reply actions

this!!!!

by white angus on Nov 12, 2011 7:18 AM EST up reply actions

sliding over to a utility role wouldnt be a problem

plus the guy is a switch hitter, and that almost always is a bonus

by white angus on Nov 12, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions

“You betcha!”

You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.

by WTM on Nov 12, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

The best Pirates infielder of the last decade, just edging out Luis Rivas and Chris Gomez. Honorable mention to Matt Kata.

No jinx no jinx no jinx.

by Suffering Buc on Nov 12, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions

no worse with the bat

That is an incredible understatement. He’s significantly better with the bat. His wRC+ has consistently been in the 80s over the last three years. Cedeno’s has been 56, 81, and 67 over that time span. Santiago would be roughly a full win better with the bat over a full season of PT.

I’m not so sure he’s better with the glove, but he certainly doesn’t seem any worse.

by epoc on Nov 12, 2011 8:48 AM EST up reply actions

Eh,

my comment was just off a quick look at his /// line. Didn’t delve into the hard numbers. If he’s better with the bat too, all the better.

by bucdaddy on Nov 12, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions

"2014 world championship team"

Man, you must have a 4-day weekend to account for all the drinking that preceeded this comment.

If you don’t, don’t worry too much about the WVU previews and game stuff. Since they can’t go to a big-shot bowl now, most of the “fans” are jumping ship-at least in this area.

パトリック

by patthatt on Nov 12, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions

I notce

they’re quick to do that in every area.

Beef O’Brady’s Bowl, baby!

by bucdaddy on Nov 12, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions

Jeepus

Can’t spell anything today.

by bucdaddy on Nov 12, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions

Big Win Yesterday

Theres still real hope that we can win the Big East. We need Cincy to lose @ Rutgers and win out, which I think is real possible

twitter.com/iandavidjackson

by omar moreno on Nov 13, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions

Santiago is a little better than Cedeno, so why not

It’s basically a wash with the glove, and Santiago is better with the bat. Santiago is a little older, but he’s not Omar Vizquel.

If the idea was to find a comparable or better player than Cedeno for a comparable or lower price, I say go for it.
If possible, a 1-year contract plus a club option for 2013 seems good to me. Something like what they offered Barajas.

by From France on Nov 12, 2011 8:54 AM EST reply actions

If the idea was to find a comparable or better player than Cedeno for a comparable or lower price, I say go for it.

I don’t think they’re going to get Santiago for a lower price than Cedeno, but that’s because Santiago is way better than Cedeno. I don’t think the goal is to get a player who’s comparable to Cedeno; I think the goal is to get a significant upgrade over Cedeno, which Santiago would be. If it costs significantly more, well, that’s how it goes. I’d be very happy to see the Pirates willing to spend money to make an upgrade rather than just finding the poopiest veteran for the lowest price.

by epoc on Nov 12, 2011 9:21 AM EST up reply actions

Find the same or better player for the same or lower price is a fantasy players’ creed. But it works in real life.

What I actually meant is : yeah spending 3M$ for a player is not the end of the world; yeah Cedeno is better than replacement level. But if NH really wants a guy like Cedeno, I would bet (no actually I wouldn’t) he could find one for less than those 3M$.

Schematically,
3M$ for Cedeno = not unreasonable
less than 3M$ for a player comparable to Cedeno = better
a little more than 3M$ for a better player than Cedeno = much better

by From France on Nov 12, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions

Interesting

Jim Leyland said during the playoffs that the only reason Santiago isn’t a starter is that he’s too slow to play second regularly. Of course, UZR disagrees.

You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.

by WTM on Nov 12, 2011 9:45 AM EST reply actions

Has UZR

ever won a World Series?
.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 12, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs

All I care about is that the Bucs get a competent SS signed for next year.

We can’t get it done with the internal candidates available at present.

Cedeno must have been such a yo-yo that Hurdle et al. just wanted to see him elsewhere.

With the pitching staff we have, it’s imperative to have a quality SS that pick the ball. Let’s get it done FO!

パトリック

by patthatt on Nov 12, 2011 10:40 AM EST reply actions

Solid move

Santiago does seem like an upgrade over Cedeno. every time i doubt NH he finds something better. Really didnt think there would be a better option than Cedeno at 3, but this is creative and better. Didnt think there’d be a better option than Doumit either on the FA market but Barajas at 4 mill with club option is a very smart move. The Pitch framing bonus value of Barajas is super interesting, might give him bonus value that we’re not aware of. Let’s see what he does with the Maholm void. I should just stop doubting NH

by Mingy on Nov 12, 2011 3:40 PM EST reply actions

I agree that Santiago at SS would be a good move (assuming a fair salary), but it isn’t done yet. And I don’t see what’s smart about Barajas at 1/4. Seems positively Overbay-ian. And considering that the Maholm-void is also the McDonald/Karstens/Morton/Correia/Lincoln-void, he’s got his work cut out for him there. I’d say that doubting NH is still very warranted.

by epoc on Nov 12, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs

this

#AlltheBuntsAreBad

by Slick1 on Nov 13, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions

Keep Cedeno?

Really Charlie, Keep Cedeno? He was terrible and I’m glad to see him gone. He didn’t do anything with the Cubs and surely didn’t do anything for the Pirates either other than a liability on the field and at the plate. Anyone and I mean anyone would be better at shortstop than Cedeno. I would even entertain the idea of getting Cal Ripken out of retirement and play him at shortstop. So there is no doubt I would enjoy seeing anyone in the shortstop position that wasn’t name Ronny Cedeno.

by Hinesward#1 on Nov 12, 2011 9:54 PM EST reply actions

a liability on the field

Where 2011 is concerned, that’s just flat untrue.

You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.

by WTM on Nov 12, 2011 10:42 PM EST up reply actions

I suppose

if you’re considering how prone he is to mental lapses, then he is a liability, simply because he could make a mistake at any moment. But overall, he was very good actually in 2011

The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass

by glass0941 on Nov 13, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions