MLB Rumors: Pirates Interested In Rafael Furcal

by Charlie Wilmoth on Nov 17, 2011 1:38 PM EST

ST LOUIS, MO - OCTOBER 28: Rafael Furcal #15 of the St. Louis Cardinals is hit by a pitch with the bases loaded to score Albert Pujols #5 in the fifth inning during Game Seven of the MLB World Series against the Texas Rangers at Busch Stadium on October 28, 2011 in St Louis, Missouri. (Photo by Jamie Squire/Getty Images)

Jon Heyman tweets that the Pirates have interest in Rafael Furcal, as well as other shortstop options. Thanks to Thunder for finding this and putting it in the FanPosts.

Furcal has more upside than your typical injury-prone 34-year-old shortstop who posted a WAR of 0.5 last year, but it's worth keeping in mind that ... well, he's injury-prone, he's 34, and he posted a WAR of 0.5 last year. He did hit pretty well down the stretch, and he was excellent in 2010. It's unclear how much of his poor performance in the early part of the season was due to the various injuries he was dealing with at the time (including a thumb injury that probably made it pretty hard to hit), but he's had so many injuries that his poor performance as a result of one can't just be waved away.

I'd be happy with Furcal as a Pirate next year, but keep in mind that he openly talked about retirement early last season, so he doesn't seem to be the hang-around-forever-even-if-I-have-to-play-for-the-Pirates type, and it's an open question whether he'd be willing to sign. I also wouldn't go longer than two years for him, and even that sounds risky. Maybe he can be lured with a one-year deal with a nice base salary (say, $5 million) and good, reachable incentives as well, giving him a chance to make a nice chunk of change and prove he can stay healthy before heading back to the free agent market next offseason. I doubt it, but it's worth a shot.

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Furcal?

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 17, 2011 1:47 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

+1

On top of that fact that I don’t want him, its going to be real hard to get him with the number of other teams looking for his services next year. I think this is a non-issue and has a very low chance of happening.

Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained

by Kosstic518 on Nov 17, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions

No!

by pineapplepete on Nov 17, 2011 1:57 PM EST reply actions

UH.......

ugh!!!!!

by Skipperron on Nov 17, 2011 2:00 PM EST reply actions

so the conclusion is that his injury problems will continue and not worth the risk?

by white angus on Nov 17, 2011 2:03 PM EST reply actions

I fear for the safety of Vlad's monitor

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.

by WHYG Zane Smith on Nov 17, 2011 2:04 PM EST reply actions

he needs a new one anyway

the antiquated texas instrument hybrid/19" B&W tube is bound to go any day now

by white angus on Nov 17, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions

I misremembered Vlad's views

It was more “He’s a decent player, but risky because he’s a huge drunk” than “He’s such a huge drunk I don’t want him on the team.” (I think that was Derek Lowe, though that was more the domestic violence than the alcohol, maybe.)

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.

by WHYG Zane Smith on Nov 17, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions

Unfortunately...

I’d be willing to bet there are more personnel with alcohol issues in the majors than we hear about in the public realm.

by Thunder on Nov 17, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions

"He’s such a huge drunk I don’t want him on the team."

Subjectively, I wouldn’t disagree with that one, either.

He is less objectionable than Lowe, for whatever that’s worth.

by Vlad on Nov 17, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions

I'm not sure the problem here

alcohol makes everything better.

I could feel his muscle tissues collapse under my force. It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm. ~~ Mike Tyson

by Cheap Beer on Nov 17, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions

So you're saying

that Lowe is the best SP in baseball?

by JRoth95 on Nov 17, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions

No

But what does a sober Lowe look like on the field?

I could feel his muscle tissues collapse under my force. It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm. ~~ Mike Tyson

by Cheap Beer on Nov 18, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions

Looks like a guy looking for a drink

by Wizard of Woz on Nov 18, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions

+1

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 18, 2011 6:30 PM EST up reply actions

Booze

didn’t hurt Paul Waner. That said booze would be about the only thing that Furcal has in common with Big Poison.

"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.

by Pagliaroni on Nov 17, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions

Hey, drinking stories about Paul Waner!

So, this one time in spring training, the team asks him to try and cut back on the drinking a little bit, and he agrees. He gets off to an absolutely horrible start, hitting something like a hundred points below his career averages. They ask him what’s wrong, and he says that when he plays drunk, he sees three baseballs, swings at the middle one, and there’s no problem, but now that he’s cut back, he only sees two, and gets confused about which one’s the real ball.

He goes back to drinking, and his batting improves dramatically. Easy as pie.

by Vlad on Nov 18, 2011 9:33 AM EST up reply actions

At $5 million, why not?

Any transactional analysis must consider not only what the player will provide but also the cost. I haven’t done a full analysis, but a quick weighted average (where more recent data has more weight) puts his wOBA in the mid .320 range (incidentally what Bill James projects). Maybe that gets discounted a bit due to aging, but be careful not to decide he is washed up just because he’s getting older and his most recent season appears to back that up.

For a capable SS, that has solid value, on the order of a couple wins depending upon playing time. Yes his age indicates he should be on the decline and his 2011 season backs up that claim, but don’t overly weight his 2011 season because it is in line with an expected downward trend. I’ll let someone who knows more about injuries speak to that risk, but it seems Furcal should be expected to easily justify such a contract and perhaps provide much more value.

Of course as I mentioned it depends upon the cost. If he’s looking for 3/$40 million then that’s much different of course.

Sabermetrica

by mickeyg13 on Nov 17, 2011 2:07 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

by Adam Reynolds on Nov 17, 2011 2:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

His (BB-Ref) 10 most similar thru age 33 include Vizquel and Franco, and all ten had more than a thousand at-bats left in their career. That said, D’Arnaud and Mercer will both be 25 next year. We should work through them next year, and then see if we have someone else to look at in 2013, or if we need to trade for a longterm fix.

by sanny manguillen on Nov 17, 2011 2:09 PM EST reply actions

agreed... well said

by white angus on Nov 17, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions

also agreed

by CO_Bucs on Nov 17, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions

I read on pirates prospects

that a 2yr 8mil per each season could be likely. they also said he may be inclined to sign for 6-7mil and that some teams going for him want him to play 2nd, so if we keep him at SS we may have a better shot at him, i feel like Furcal is a proud player that wouldnt want to be moved from SS

http://www.piratesprospects.com/2011/11/pirates-looking-at-rafael-furcal.html

Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott

by C Shint on Nov 17, 2011 2:19 PM EST reply actions

my thoughts

any longer than a 2yr deal would not be ideal. As for price, well if the Pirates are willing to spend, then let them spend, id rather it be on a SS.

Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott

by C Shint on Nov 17, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions

2 sounds about right...

maybe a liveable option for a 3rd…but 2 makes sense. We don’t have anyone busting down the doors in the minors to play SS.

by Thunder on Nov 17, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions

exactly, so if this is where the FO wants to spend their money, then fine, like I said, Id rather it be on SS

Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott

by C Shint on Nov 17, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions

The possibility of Furcal playing 2B...

would probably be Plan C if Pedro tanks again. We already know Walker can play 3B,.

by Thunder on Nov 17, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions

Im stating

to draw him in, i think it would make more sense to tell him we plan on having him at SS.

Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott

by C Shint on Nov 17, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions

I agree...

but the thought should be in the back of Hurdle’s/Huntington’s minds.

by Thunder on Nov 17, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions

oh yes i agree with that, it makes sense, so no reason not to think of it.

Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott

by C Shint on Nov 18, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions

ill pass on that

seriously? I think we could do better just letting chase and pedro give it a try. 8 mil is a bit steep for this team and two years on a guy coming off an injury plagued season? no thank you, sir.

by bbautista24 on Nov 18, 2011 6:28 AM EST up reply actions

Furcal?

For fuck sake ><

by BadAndy on Nov 17, 2011 3:00 PM EST reply actions

Any inclination I have to get worked up over this is diminished by the fact that there’s about a 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance of Furcal signing with the Pirates. Roughly speaking.

You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.

by WTM on Nov 17, 2011 3:18 PM EST reply actions

Plus or minus 10%, I would say, but you’re not far off.

by shayborg on Nov 17, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I'd be surprised...

if the chance of signing Barmes is much higher than that.

by Thunder on Nov 17, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions

I'm much more optimistic about Barmes

I’d say his odds of signing with the Pirates are 0.0001%

I’d wish they’d just ink Ramon Santiago so we can all move on.

Jose Tabata is the truth

The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.

by Raybin on Nov 17, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions

No thanks. I’m in the d’Arnaud camp.

by CO_Bucs on Nov 17, 2011 3:37 PM EST reply actions

Charlie...

I went ahead and deleted my FanPost since your post read so much better (not surprisingly).

by Thunder on Nov 17, 2011 3:39 PM EST reply actions

Ah ok. Sorry. Yours was well-written and I thought about just front-paging it, but I didn’t really agree with what you thought he might be worth.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Nov 17, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions

That’s fine, considering the Dodgers offer to Doumit, and the offers Wilson and Sanchez got a few years ago, I probably put estimates that are too high for most players looking to come to, or stay with, the Pirates. I should probably refrain from guessing, since I don’t seem to be all that accurate ;-)

by Thunder on Nov 17, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions

Wait

aren’t you a meteorologist?

by Wizard of Woz on Nov 18, 2011 8:17 AM EST up reply actions

+ 32 farenheit

by white angus on Nov 18, 2011 8:31 AM EST up reply actions

+1 to both of you

Well done, boys.

by JRoth95 on Nov 18, 2011 9:25 AM EST up reply actions

But predicting the weather is much easier than trying to figure out the MLB salary structure.

by Thunder on Nov 18, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions

Can’t we solve these questions of how to fill currently available positions for 2012 in Baseball Mogul 2012? Someone get on it! :)

by CO_Bucs on Nov 17, 2011 4:39 PM EST reply actions

Can’t we solve these questions of how to fill currently available positions for 2012 in Baseball Mogul 2012?

“Hmm, seems like the optimal strategy here is obvious. Huntington should trade Jason Jaramillo, Josh Harrison, Ross Ohlendorf, Mike Colla, Mike Crotta, Mike McKenry, Tim Wood, Xavier Paul, Jason Grilli, Matt Hague, Chris Resop, Brian Burres, Brian Friday, Quincy Latimore, Josh Bonifay, and seventeen million dollars to the Braves for Jason Heyward and Arodys Chapman. Simple!”

by Vlad on Nov 17, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions

+1

Cant speak for BM but if you like OOTP turn the difficulty up and play with a no cash in trades to computer teams rule hahaha

Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained

by Kosstic518 on Nov 17, 2011 5:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

A couple years ago I got so used to BM that OOTP seemed strange. Then I just stopped playing them all because it bothered my girlfriend.

by CO_Bucs on Nov 17, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah my fiance bitched about OOTP a ton

Fortunately for her I had to stop playing because of work.

I always liked OOTP more, I thought it was more difficult and had a more competitive online following for human only leagues.

Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained

by Kosstic518 on Nov 17, 2011 5:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

The Braves wouldn't have a problem letting Chapman go

Cause he plays for the Reds and all….

by maguro on Nov 17, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions

buzzkill.

by white angus on Nov 17, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions

No that’s after Chapman was traded to ATL for $23 M cash and a 55/58 rating rookie league infielder.

by CO_Bucs on Nov 17, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions

Hahaha

Yes those are the best trades hahaha. Braves would make a killing! :)

by CO_Bucs on Nov 17, 2011 5:05 PM EST reply actions

I doubt it happens, but I get bad vibes picturing Furcal with the Pirates. It might be foolish, but I’d rather see D’arnaud full-time than someone like Furcal. Of course, he might be hurt often enough that signing Furcal makes Chase the starter.

by King Oskar on Nov 18, 2011 10:00 AM EST reply actions

2nd Wildcard

Disappointing news to be sure about the cap on draft spending, it just make sense to further punish smaller market clubs. However, there was some good news about the addition of a second wildcard foe either the 2012 or 2013 season. I don’t have time right now, but it would be interesting to chart the win totals of the second wildcards in each league if the second wildcard had been in existence when MLB went to three divisions.

I wonder how many clubs with win totals in the mid 80s would have at least been in contention.

by SteelStealth on Nov 18, 2011 12:13 PM EST reply actions