Would You Trade McCutchen for Heyward?
by zogger on Nov 19, 2011 7:31 PM EST
Email
Print
If offered by the Braves would you trade Andrew McCutchen for Jason Heyward straight up?
I would! As much as I like McCutchen, Heyward is a Corner OF with more power than McCutchen. Plus we have at least 4 other options for CF (Tabata, Presley, Hernandez, and Marte) but few options for CF positions.
The Braves have few CF options so maybe they might think about this one. I don't know if they have other Corner OFs but they have been good in the past at finding Corner OFs but not really good a CF since Andrew Jones.
What do you think?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
69 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Sheesh
this is tough. I believe a little less in Heyward after last year, Cutch has played better and plays a premium defensive spot, and the difference in control isn’t that much.
Cause of those factors, plus the fact that if Heyward fizzled, it would be a PR disaster, I’d have to pass.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Nov 19, 2011 8:31 PM EST reply actions
I would strongly consider it
Particularly if they believe in Marte in CF, it might be a good move. Would need to think about it some more, though. It would be quite a blockbuster!
you make a great point
if marte can take over, do you do it? thats tough. its flip a coin and see which one has the better career, cutch or heyward.
tough.
by white angus on Nov 19, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
Not this year
I think that if Marte could equal McCutchen then I would do this for sure, but Marte needs a year of Triple A before I think he could do it. So, if Marte continues on the path and this offer is made next year, I might do it. However, this year the defensive loss would be too great not to mention that Presley is not going to offensively replace McCutchen.
So ask again next year is my answer, I guess.
by SojourningPirate on Nov 19, 2011 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
This is kind of funny..
Someone needs to fully replace Cutch’s production to make this trade? So.. if I’m reading this right.. we not only need to upgrade our RF by adding Heyward and possibly 40 HR per year… but we also need to replace Cutch’s value in CF equally as well?
Yiiikes!
Heyward... 40HRs?
Only 2 players in the MLB hit 40HRs last season. Heyward hit 14 last year. I wouldn’t bank on him hitting 40 next year, the year after, or anytime after that. He is still very unproven at this point.
I don’t see JHey hitting 40 in the next 4 years, and then we’d lose him anyways via FA. Then again, we lose Cutch in 3… *gulp :(
by H2O on Nov 20, 2011 4:35 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i agree
so far, Cutch is the better player. pitchers have learned Heyward’s flaws and he hasnt adjusted to them just yet. 40 Hrs is s stretch after the steroid era. Besides, heyward is more of a line drive guy than anything.
I think I would..
Heyward fits better in terms of what we need on this team (Power).
I’m a believer that Tabata could play an adequate CF for 1-2 years and then have him move back to LF and let Marte man the position.
Doesn’t seem like Cutch wants to sign long-term here. Obviously, no reason to believe Heyward would either. However, I think Heyward has an extra year of team control, but I’m not positive on that.
Hanrahan for Heyward straight up?
yes please
by BadAndy on Nov 19, 2011 10:02 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Hammer trade value
With teams paying for guys like K-Rod, Adams, and Uehara last year, plus Papelbon getting a ton of money (with Madson on the horizon), how is Hammer not insanely valuable right now? Even to a team like Atlanta that hopefully now knows you need more than 3 relievers all season?
Heyward could be very very special,
or he could be the player he was last year, which is fairly average, if not worse. McCutchen is already established, and has been (for the most part) consistent, while Heyward has been nothing but hype. Cutch will also play better defense… especially if we moved him to a corner (where Heyward would be).
The main point of this deal would be to increase the Pirates’ team power, and bring a true corner OF. However, as far as power goes, Cutch might max out at 25HR per year, but Heyward has yet to hit 20.
I think Cutch is superior, now and long-term. For some reason, I just don’t see Heyward becoming a truly elite player. Maybe it’s the Braves recent track record for developing their “elite” OF prospects (Francoeur, Drew, Schafer)
how about this... if marte is ready:
cutch and minor leaguer to ATL for heyward and minor
would you consider it?
You're asking the wrong guy...
I’m not high on Marte at all. I like Tabata more, offensively, especially because of his plate discipline. Cutch and Tabata have great discipline, Marte (from AA stats and scouting reports) is still developing that.
On the other side, I never liked Mike Minor either. Starting in college, I just hated watching him. I’m actually wearing my Vandy shirt right now, so it does’t make sense.
WHAT A NEGATIVE POST! lol
For me personally...
I’d rather deal Marte.
A lot of people would take that offer though. Heyward and Minor are both potential franchise players. If both developed, Huntington looks like a genius.
Since Cutch is a franchise player, though, if only 1 (or God forbid, both) did not pan out, NH made a terrible deal. The deal is not really capable of being a wash, because McCutchen is a homegrown talent. As such, bucs fans will like him more than a free agent/ big trade type.
Andruw Jones, Jermaine Dye…
I think Wilson betemit was top 20 at one point, everyone misses occasionally.
the blog software turns any # sign at the beginning of a line into a list, and discards the number you used
It’s pretty annoying.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Nov 21, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
It’s restructured text. It can be annoying if you don’t know why it’s doing it or what characters trigger things, and isn’t usually needed for simple comments/replies. However, it can be quite useful for easily writing a nicely formatted post.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Nov 23, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
It can be useful, but I think it’s a little overaggressive in some cases. Turning asterisks into bold is useful, but I’ve seen far more cases where text gets accidentally crossed out than where it gets crossed out deliberately, and I’m not sure I’ve ever seen someone deliberately use a numbered list in a comment on an SBN blog. It might be nice to turn it on for visual mode posts and off for comments if that was possible. (Not that you’re responsible for it, I’m just venting.)
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Nov 24, 2011 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
I agree—it would be much more useful if you could switch between plain text (default) and restructured text. Then those who aren’t expecting it (probably the average poster) would not be surprised and those who use it are still able to. I understand, none of us have any control over the SBN platform, other than maybe moaning to those in charge. But I don’t even know where you would do that…
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Nov 25, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
whoa
andruw jones is a borderline HOF case. dye had decent career. there are plenty of busts out there, but i wouldn’t start it with these two.
he said they can't develop OF
I was using them as an example that they can and Betemit as an example that prospects fail quite often, so 3 OF misses doesn’t a trend make.
I think it would be crazy
Heyward is so unproven and it’s not like Cutch has no power. Any extra power
heyward may have Cutch more than makes up for it with his speed, stolen bases, going from 1st to third on a single, etc etc. Cutch brings in alot more fans than Heyward.
really? fans???
obviously you dont remember the buzz that surrounded Heyward when he made the team out of spring training 2 years ago. when cutch came up, only pirate fans noticed.
you could also argue that heyward is a better baserunner than cutch. cutch relies on pure athleticism and sometimes it gets him in trouble.
right now cutch has had the best start of his career. if heyward adjusts to the pitchers, he possibly could be the better player long term. too early to tell. its a crapshoot.
#1 prospect in baseball... making team out of ST
Yes, he will definitely be talked about. But for every prospect-turned-superstar, there are 10 busts. Heyward is still very unproven. Straight up, it would be very tough to deal Cutch for JHey.
i agree
im not real high on cutch either especially how he changed his approach in the 2nd half, but right now hes the better player
Not high on Cutch?
I see the 2012 Pirates as a 55 win team… if I wasn’t high on McCutchen (lol, could be a bad jk) I would definitely be dreading the upcoming season.
Only Pirate Fans Noticed...
we are so far off the Baseball map that Zombie Bin Laden could fly a dirty bomb right into second base at PNC Park during the middle of a game and it likely would only receive passing mention on ESPN.
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
Yes fans
Yes I do remember how the media built up Heyward into being some great phenom. I’m sure you got caught up in it as well. I don’t care how many fans Cutch brings in during away games. At home he is the ticket. People love the speed and power combo.
Maybe you could argue Heyward is a better baserunner because you like to argue. Yet the fact remains Cutch has 56 stolen bases to Heywards 20. Lifetime Cutch has a higher success rate. To say if Heyward adjusts to the pitchers is like saying if my Aunt had balls she would be my uncle. Hey if D’Arnaud adjusts to the pitchers, if Alvarez adjusts to the pitchers. Cutch will only hit for more power as he gets older and gains a little extra weight and muscle.
baserunning and basestealing are two different things
your aunts nutsack is a clever analogy by the way, totally throws off the fact that your post is exactly what ive said in the past.
so thanks.
hmmm
The past 2 seasons, McCutchen has a 73% success rate at SB; Heyward has 71% — not exactly showcasing McCutchen’s HUGE speed advantage. As Angus states, SB and baserunning are not the same thing…but total SB doesn’t tell me much when the caught stealing rate is almost identical.
The past 2 seasons, McCutchen has a .3 dWAR while Heyward has a 2.0 dWAR. Now, as I believe that number to be applied to the position played…quite an advantage in Heyward’s direction.
by insane_sanity on Nov 20, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
for the record
I can’t say I’d do the deal straight-up if I’m the Pirates.
by insane_sanity on Nov 20, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
agreed
I mean we already have our own j-hey
I think you're misunderstanding dWAR
Looks like you’re looking at baseball reference’s numbers, which I’m pretty sure do not fold positional scarcity into dWAR. So Heyward has 19 or 20 Rfield over the last two years, which represents his runs added as a fielder compared to the average RF, and then -13 Rpos over the last two years, which represents the low positional scarcity of RFs. Cutch is at 3 Rfield over the last two years, and 4 Rpos. So if you add those two numbers together, they come out exactly the same.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Nov 20, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
need clarification, then
Yes, I was using the dWAR number on baseballreference as I thought it was a decent quick-reference. If it is not position-adjusted, I need a new quick reference.
That said, while I see the numbers you’re referencing show them to come out the same…other numbers (such as those at fangraphs) show McCutchen not performing as well defensively as a CF as Heyward has in RF, primarily due to poor defensive metrics for McCutchen in 2010.
by insane_sanity on Nov 20, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
I know Cutch isn't a good base stealer
With his speed he should have 40 every year. But to say Heyward is a better baserunner? I have watched mostly every Pirate game and can’t remember Cutch screwing up on the bases. His only problem with stealing is the small lead he takes and he is very tentative. He is not shy about knowing what to do in other situations. Andrew is by far the most talented guy on the team, for Angus to even suggest trading him with 4 years remaining under our control is absurd.
by pineapplepete on Nov 20, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
hey, other than cole and taillon, no one should be untradable
couldnt hurt to kick the tires on anyone/everyone. to NOT do so is bad management.
and i never said to trade him for Heyward… i said trade him for Bumgarner.
This
Andrew is by far the most talented guy on the team, for Angus to even suggest trading him with 4 years remaining under our control is absurd.
is not right. If the Pirates did make a Cutch-Heyward deal, they would be getting a player back who would also be the most talented guy on the team and would also have four years of control left. You can’t use those factors to refute a trade for a guy who would fill those exact same criteria.
I would be really torn about this. It is really a question of whether you would rather have a guy with higher upside (which I think is Heyward) or the guy who has done more to this point. Since I made the argument on the Starlin Castro thread that production trumps potential in a close call, I guess I’d say no to this trade but it would be a really close call for me. Bahhh…you know, either way I couldn’t really complain. It would be a risk but the reward could wind up being the best hitter in the NL.
by KentuckyPirate on Nov 20, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
I hear ya
I think, in my mind, I see McCutchen progressing as a player for 3 straight years…while Heyward slumped last season (which could be injury-related).
For this reason, I’d be hesitant to do a 1-for-1 deal…and if you don’t do the deal, you’ve still got Andrew McCutchen. If anything, it’s fun to talk about.
by insane_sanity on Nov 20, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Does Heyward have more upside? Probably not… McCutchen was a 5.7 war player last year, and he had upside past 6 WAR (from possibly improving the AVG or defense).
Heyward has more power upside, but overall upsides would be similar..
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 20, 2011 5:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I think Heyward does have more upside
People seem to forget how much talent Heyward has because last year was so rough but this guy put up a monster year as a 20 year old in the majors. Every time they showed a list of “players who did x, y, and z before turning 21” it was always Heyward and a couple of Hall of Famers.
Yeah, Cutch was great last year and 5.7 WAR is a great season. But Heyward’s 5.2 WAR as a 20-year old rookie is more impressive.
by KentuckyPirate on Nov 20, 2011 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
Is anyone a member at the Atlanta SB Nation site?
It would be interesting to see the same poll posted there to see what the results and the comments would be.
I am, I put up a fanpost for them to discuss a trade with us. Not with Cutch for Heyward but just something to rosberbate on.
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
They
keep wanting to give us Jurrjens. I don’t understand why we would even consider that. A good young pitcher, but only for 2 years. He’ll leave after 2013, just when Taillon and Cole should be arriving.
That’d be a moronic trade for us.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Nov 21, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
And he's got a shaky injury history too
Declining K rate to boot…he’s more suited for a contender who needs rotation help, not the Bucs.
No.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
If the Braves called up offering that trade, I'd listen to it.
But I’m not Neal Huntington.
You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu
I would do that in a second.
However, the Braves would hang up the phone immediately.
Proud fan of Pittsburgh's professional sports teams and the Pirates too.
by Black&GoldTrain on Nov 23, 2011 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
Would I do that deal?
Heyward will probably bounce back, but no. McCutchen tanked in the second half last year and still put up a 6 WAR season. I’d rather deal Cutch for top-flight prospects than Heyward, given the years of control problem.
No jinx no jinx no jinx.
ummm
Michael Bourne is not what I would call no options for Centerfield. As to your question though, would I do it? No, but it’s a tough call. I like Heyward’s Left handedness more than Cutch’s right handedness. Otherwise, I prefer Cutch’s speed, glove, defense and contact tools over Heyward’s power.
Bees Bees Everywhere
true
but how many times was it because we were getting beaten down in August and the umpires wanted to go home
Bees Bees Everywhere
by VoteforPedro on Nov 22, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
actually
he changed his approach later in the season — much of it was not bad umpires, but shitty PAs. His K% (using PAs) went from 16% the first half of the season to 22% the 2nd half.
Perhaps you can argue he was trying to hit more 5-run HRs or something….but as has been discussed on these boards previously, his approach at the plate was totally different later in the year.
by insane_sanity on Nov 22, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
funny how counting stats lead you down the wrong path easily
cutch led our team in strikeouts
You’re right, apparently.
But if you look at strikeout percentage, for players with at least 150 PA, we have Alvarez, Wood, McKenry, D’Arnaud, Paul, Jones, Cedeno, Overbay and Diaz all ahead of McCutchen, and Presley, Walker and Tabata right behind him.
A counting stat giving you the wrong impression? Why, I never…
by BurgherKing on Nov 22, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, but other than alvarez which one of those guys are the face of the franchise
see, youre turning this around to say im hating on metrics which ive promised to stop doing on this forum, but you guys keep trying to bait me on… lol
voteforpedro mentioned his contact skills, and i simply said he lead the team in strikeouts on a strikeout prone team, DESPITE being pitched around.
like insane_sanity mentioned above, Cutch’s approach changed at the dish which i mentioned long ago which lead to his poor 2nd half
if you guys dont want me bitching about stats then you really should stop baiting me into them…
and see, not one mention of metrics on my end… so there!
see, youre turning this around to say im hating on metrics which ive promised to stop doing on this forum, but you guys keep trying to bait me on
I don’t know where you’d get that idea. I know your beliefs, and that you aren’t likely to change your stance on them, so I don’t bother arguing this with you. Nor do I think you’re hating on metrics, because everything (including BA) is a metric; you dislike the advanced ones. I couldn’t care less about “baiting you”.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bucs Dugout
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Roy Halladay bobblehead with glove on wrong hand selling on MLB.com
- Will Smith shows why making your big league debut at Yankee Stadium is less than ideal
- Steinbrenners selling the Yankees? Family denies New York Daily News report
- The Juice: Brandon Phillips flip sets up Todd Frazier walkoff for Reds
- Josh Hamilton makes great catch, destroys part of fence at Safeco Field
