Keith Law: Pirates Would 'Listen' To Andrew McCutchen Offers
by Charlie Wilmoth on Nov 28, 2011 6:14 PM EST
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On Rumor Central, for all you brand-new Insiders: I heard the Pirates would at least listen on Andrew McCutchen ... I rarely post rumors, & wouldn't have posted this one if I didn't believe this was serious.
I've never known the Pirates' front office to ever consider anyone to be "untouchable," so I'm going to treat this as something ado about very little until there's a little more smoke under it. I'm sure they'd be willing to trade him if the right deal came along, but I'm also sure that their price for McCutchen is incredibly high, so until the Bucs are in serious discussions with someone, it's not really worth worrying about. But people are going to be talking about this, so if you want to discuss it here, have at it.
My personal take is that if McCutchen is unwilling to sign an extension, then it certainly wouldn't be ridiculous for the Pirates to consider trading him. It's increasingly looking like there won't be a particularly strong core in Pittsburgh until Gerrit Cole and Jameson Taillon arrive, if they ever do (which isn't to the front office's credit, obviously), and the surest way to ensure that core is as strong as possible is to trade McCutchen for younger players. The Bucs would have at least another year before that became a pressing consideration, though, and it would be depressing to think too much about it now.
UPDATE: This.
UPDATE: Dejan Kovacevic says there's nothing to this at all.
UPDATE: Once more, for emphasis!
Let me skip past the newspaper-ese and spell this out a different way: If you just had the conversation I just had, you wouldn’t give another second of thought to McCutchen being traded.
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Anyone have any Xanax?
Need some after reading this.
LOL
And people here are still defending this clown Front Office and ownership?
I’m sure the apologists will make up some silly statistic defending this possible move as GOOD for the Bucs.
My thoughts exactly. A post about how the “apologists” will just make up some crap to defend this “possible move,” written not only before any “apologists” have defended anything, but before there’s even any “possible move” to defend! Remarkable.
Crazy question! What if the Pirates actually got a really good offer for McCutchen? Would you have to be an “apologist” to defend that?
by Charlie Wilmoth on Nov 28, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah sure
I’ve got lots of confidence in NH making a good trade. He’s done a helluva of a job in 4 years improving the major league talent on the team.
Sorry I don't give the Pirates FO the benefit of the doubt
To be smart enough to execute a really good offer. So there’s no reason for me to even acknowledge a pie in the sky scenario that would benefit the Bucs more than the other team
Trading Andrew McCutchen better not happen
I don’t care if we get Josh Hamilton, Felix Hernandez, Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, Cliff Lee and cash considerations. DONT TRADE HIM.
Wait what?
by bosten7 on Nov 28, 2011 6:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
I'm just glad you're not jumping the gun or anything.
They haven’t traded McCutchen.
They aren’t considering an offer for McCutchen.
They aren’t shopping McCutchen.
There isn’t even a report of a specific team having serious interest in McCutchen.
Yet you are trashing the front office because Keith Law says they will “at least listen” to other teams regarding McCutchen.
So what would be the appropriate action by the FO? Would you be happy if Neal Huntington went up to any GM who asked him about McCutchen and punched him in the face?
by biggyv on Nov 28, 2011 6:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'll be happy when NH actually puts a winning product on the field
4 years going on 5 years that’s yet to happen.
Because
taking the most lost, directionless, mismanaged franchise in all of American professional sports and turning them into a winner somehow screamed quick fix to you?
by KentuckyPirate on Nov 28, 2011 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
Rod Barajas, Clint Barmes, possible Aaron Cook
what direction are we going in again?
Interesting
An upgrade at catcher, an upgrade at shortstop and a pitcher that we haven’t actually signed yet…
No, no, you’re right. Boo Pirates!
by KentuckyPirate on Nov 28, 2011 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
Clint Barmes is not an upgrade at SS
Especially at 2 years 11 million. Try again
Over Ronny Cedeno? Yes he is
-Last year, Barmes was worth 2.9 WAR, his dWAR was 1.5 and his OPS+ was 93. Cedeno was worth 1.6 WAR, his dWAR was 1.1 and his OPS+ was 76.
-Over the last 3 years Barmes has been worth 6.2, 4.2 with an OPS+ of 81. Cedeno? 1.5, 0.5 and 74.
The last 6 years? Barmes: 8.6, 6.3 and 76. Cedeno: 0.5, 0.5 and 67.
Over their careers, Barmes has averaged 2.8 WAR and 1.9 dWAR per 162 games with a 78 OPS+ while Cedeno averaged 0 and 0 with an OPS+ of 68.
To top it all off, Cedeno’s baseball IQ is horrifyingly bad.
by KentuckyPirate on Nov 28, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
Barmes played his career in Colorado and Houston
Two of the better right handed hitting parks. His averages are much lower on the road and since he’s 32 chances are he will get worse offensively and defensively.
Cedeno >> Barmes
And I’ll admit I don’t really like Cedeno
WAR
accounts for park effects. Try again.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Nov 28, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
Cedeno's career road avgs
.236/.273/.341 (OPS of .614 to Barmes’ .633)
I’m not saying Barmes is a superstar. He is, however, better than Ronny Cedeno. I really don’t know why you’re trying to fight that so much. Are you Ronny Cedeno? If so, why did you bunt with the bases loaded and two outs?
by KentuckyPirate on Nov 28, 2011 7:33 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
OPS+
is park adjusted, for one thing (although admittedly, it doesn’t take handedness into account). More importantly, older doesn’t always mean worse. Most of the time, when a guy is going to dip, you see signs of it. Barmes, on the other hand, is coming off one of the best seasons of his career. Since players can be successful past age 32, what specifically makes you think Barmes is going to be a bust just because of his age?
by KentuckyPirate on Nov 28, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
Probably not
but Doumit’s injury history and spotty defense (combined with his unrealistic 2-year option) make it at least a defensible move. It wouldn’t surprise me if it blew up in our face but I also wouldn’t be stunned if Barajas was more productive in 2012.
by KentuckyPirate on Nov 28, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
I also wouldn’t be stunned if Barajas was more productive in 2012.
I would. He’s a right-handed hitter whose only meaningful skill on offense is hitting the occasional HR, and he’s moving to a horrible park for RH power after playing all but four months of his career in good HR parks. He’s also 37, which makes him a huge risk to collapse.
And he’s very injury prone. He’s been hurt every year of his career. He’s caught just 88 and 96 games the last two years. The only difference between him and Doumit is that his injuries haven’t been as serious.
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
I know Barajas is a risk to collapse
It wouldn’t surprise me if it blew up in our face
But Doumit is also moving into a power sapping park and Barajas is a better defender. Don’t get me wrong I don’t expect anything big out of him but I wouldn’t be totally shocked if Barajas put up a 1.5ish WAR and Doumit was worth about 1 WAR.
by KentuckyPirate on Nov 28, 2011 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
But Doumit is also moving into a power sapping park…
While true, that’s not really relevant, since the comparison here is Barajas-with-the-Pirates-in-2012 vs. Doumit-hypothetically-playing-for-the-Pirates-in-2012.
Fair point
I wasn’t thinking of it that way and I should have been.
In any case, all I was saying is that it is at least plausible that Barajas and Doumit could both post similar OPS+ next year (somewhere in the 90’s let’s say), in which case Barajas defense would make him the more valuable player.
I know the concern is that Doumit goes out and puts together a full season of his 2008 or his 2011 production. I know that because that’s what I was hoping for when I was crossing my fingers that the Pirates would be able to get him to accept arbitration for next year. At the same time, weren’t we hoping for the same thing in 2009 and 2010 when he was a mediocre hitter AND a horrible defender? I know that there is a chance that Barajas “Overbays” all over himself this year which would suck. All I was suggesting is that it is at least possible that Barajas (4.9 bWAR and 2.6 bWAR/162 games since 2008) will be more productive than Doumit (4.8 bWAR and 2.6 bWAR/162 games since 2008) in 2012. Fair?
by KentuckyPirate on Nov 29, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
i read somewhere that Barajas has actually caught a shatload of innings the last few years, in the top 10
if i find the link, i’ll post
There aren’t many catchers who play every day. Teams don’t really expect that with most catchers, whether they stay healthy or not. But I wasn’t just looking at Barajas’ game or inning totals. He has in fact been hurt just about every year of his career.
Btw, he’s 36, not 37 like I said above.
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
i read somewhere that Barajas has actually caught a shatload of innings the last few years, in the top 10
I saw that bit – the boundaries for the list were carefully set in order to lead to that particular conclusion. In any given year, Barajas has generally caught fewer games than the average starting catcher. He just looks better than most on that particular list because between injuries and performance, surprisingly few catchers spend three consecutive full seasons as starters.
A good rule of thumb is that in one season, a durable catcher in a full-time role should catch 1,000 innings or more. AJ Pierzynski, for example, has been over 1,000 innings caught every year since 2002. Kurt Suzuki has been over 1,000 innings caught four times in four full seasons as Oakland’s starter. Russ Martin has done it five times in six full seasons. Etc. A freakishly durable catcher, like Jason Kendall or Bob Boone, will be up around 1,200 innings a season.
Barajas hasn’t gotten over that 1,000 inning bar since 2005, his age-29 season (though he admittedly did come close in 2009).
Depends on how much you hate Doumit's defense
If those pitch framing studies are accurate, Doumit was well below replcement level.
Doumit caught only a third of the Pirates’ games. Most of the rest were caught by McKenry, who as I recall rated about avg., and Snyder, who was one of the better catchers in MLB. The BP study rated Barajas as well below avg., so I doubt there’ll be much of an overall change.
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
Would you be happy if Neal Huntington went up to any GM who asked him about McCutchen and punched him in the face?
I would be at least somewhat amused.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Nov 28, 2011 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
Well, duh
Nobody on a 90-loss team is untouchable. What would be disturbing would be reading that they
won’tlisten.
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
Good.
I hope they move him for a huge haul. No rush to trade him at all, but we have about a 0% chance of resigning him and each passing year his value would decrease somewhat because of the decrease in control time.
I’d want a package with both MLB and MILB pieces, that were all cost controlled and inexpensive.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
Wonder why we have no chance at resigning him?
Indictment on Nutting and Huntington? Can’t be since we got the best Front Office in baseball according to our “great” owner
dude relax
Law did not say “Pirates want McCutchen out of town as soon as possible.” You know just about as much as the rest of us. I fear for your health and safety when you overreact like this to a rumor that the Pirates would be OPEN to listening to offers for a player. I can’t imagine what you’d be like if someone actually got traded.
by PuncSpeedChunk on Nov 28, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
whoops, let's try that again
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Nov 28, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
Because he is going to get a contract similar to Kemp plus inflation and we do not have $20M a year plus inflation for him.
Pretty simple.
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
by Kosstic518 on Nov 28, 2011 7:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
McCutchen traded
Would take a severe PR hit that would take years to overcome. But if Cutch aint willing to remain a Bucco past his arb years why not get some potential superstars for him.
Him and the Braves would be a perfect match. But it would take a king’s ransom in the names of Heyward, Minor, and Tehrean for it to happen now.
by BadAndy on Nov 28, 2011 6:43 PM EST via mobile reply actions
They would never recover from the PR hit
This franchise refuses to spend money on better players in the free agent market and they are now going to trade their best piece they developed since Barry Bonds? Seriously why do we even have a baseball team in this town if the FO and ownership can’t figure out how to build a team around Cutch?
small market teams can not afford to sign high priced free agents. Small market teams win through their minor leagues developing players. The Rays are the first team to successfully do so and the Royals are fast approaching. Both teams began doing such things before 2007, when we got proper leadership. If any good suggestions for how to successfully build a team around Cutch without thinking in terms of “Bob Nutting has more money than the Yankees and Red Sox combined” then, please, pull the shotgun out of your mouth and tell us how to do so. it’s a rumor dude!
by PuncSpeedChunk on Nov 28, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
They would never recover from the PR hit
Babe Ruth didn’t retire as a Yankee. Jackie Robinson didn’t retire as a Dodger. But trading McCutchen would be a fatal blow to the franchise? Twenty years from now, yinzers would stalk elk with wooden spears in PNC Park’s outfield, listening to the wind whistle as it blew through the ruins of the grandstand?
by Vlad on Nov 29, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
title
This usedta be da best place ta watch fireworks! Only fireworks arena in the world!
Stupidity should be painful.
@elwreckingball
by wrecking_ball on Nov 29, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sorry
but I thought the deal was that the Pirates would draft, develop and keep players through their arb years, that it was the only way for them as a “small market” to acquire elite talent. Trading McCutchen for what I would assume would be a package of young players pushes the clock back. What happens when Cole and Taillon, assuming they develop, decline extensions? Face it we’re looking at trading players 3-4 years into their career, because this front office is insisting on a “home town discount” on any extensions. If they trade Cutch it proves that they are either unwilling or unable to step up to the plate financially.
Or it proves that the major league team doesn’t have that much talent, and it’s not feasible to attempt to acquire as many pieces as the team needs through free agency.
by thecheeseisblue on Nov 29, 2011 5:43 AM EST up reply actions
As long as they hold onto Ciriaco
I’m good.
by maguro on Nov 28, 2011 6:55 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Reminiscent of this:
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/7/15/2277544/mlb-trade-deadline-general-manager
It shouldn’t really be news.
by antimatter on Nov 28, 2011 6:58 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Except for this part
General manager that also does not exist
Phone: /rings
. . . .
GM 2: /plays Freecell
Happens everywhere else. I don’t know why it wouldn’t in MLB.
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
Call me naive
but I really didn’t expect to see so much backlash about the Pirates’ alleged willingness to “listen” to offers for McCutchen. I understand that he’s the face of the franchise and is a stud but that shouldn’t matter if the right offer came along. If the Braves called us up tomorrow and said they’d give us Jason Heyward, Freddie Freeman and Julio Teheran for Cutch (of course they wouldn’t, though) is anybody actually suggesting that they wouldn’t take it? Does anybody think that it wouldn’t instantly make the Pirates better? To not listen to offers would be even more irresponsible than trading him for a shitty return.
Yes
we take that.
The only team that makes sense as a trade partner if you ask me is the Rangers. They are obviously contending now, and putting Cutch in CF would be a big upgrade for them. Plus they have the ability to offer a legit package.
I’ll take
Profar, Perez, Olt + more.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Nov 28, 2011 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
Even a prospect rich team like Texas
probably couldn’t afford Cutch IMO. Because of the control left, the deal would require four (or maybe five) top 100 prospects. I don’t think the Rangers could risk a deal like that because it would destroy their farm system. There are deals out there that I would happily take (which is why I’d listen to offers) but I don’t expect there to be any teams that would be willing to give up enough to land McCutchen.
by KentuckyPirate on Nov 28, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
They
would be fairly barren after the trade, but they have the pieces.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Nov 28, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Douse the torches and put the pitchforks back in the barn
Or if you really need to vent your spleen over something that has not happened, head on over to the PG. Bob-O the Blogging Idiot should have something up on the topic soon.
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
Via Dejan on Twitter
High-ranking #Pirates source just told me team HAS NOT entertained any offer for McCutchen and has no plan to do so. He’s going nowhere.
OMG, he'll be traded tomorrowz!!!
You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu
by IAPiratesFan on Nov 28, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
That's it!
Despite the fact that nothing has happened. I’m done with this team!
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
Screw the facts!
My emotions tell me that McCutchen is as good as gone.
You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu
by IAPiratesFan on Nov 28, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
Damn right
screw logic and facts. Grab a rope and lets go string up an apologist!
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
Start with Nutting Hostage.
He loves Nutting compared to us.
You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu
by IAPiratesFan on Nov 28, 2011 9:46 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
OCCUPY NUTTING
Stupidity should be painful.
@elwreckingball
by wrecking_ball on Nov 29, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe so
but doesn’t the fact that an unfounded internet rumor been debunked actually PROVE that NH has no idea what he is doing and by logical extension PROVE that Nutting is stuffing his pockets with the money that could be used to sign Cutch to a long-term deal. C’mon people, do I have to connect the dots for you?
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
High ranking??
Unless the high ranking source has the initials of RN, FC or NH, it’s sorta meaningless, since they are the ones making the decisions.
My point was...
that those 3 choices pretty much encompass the identity of Dejan’s source.
I can’t really get offended by the notion of listening to offers—it would be bad business to not listen, since there’s the obvious possibility of someone overpaying for him. The tough part is, it would take a deal with two ‘A’ or ‘A-" prospects/young MLBers—McCutchen is already a top ten guy in the NL at the age of 25, and I’m not sure what teams have that kind of talent to overpay with—perhaps Atlanta or Texas?
Also, I think the chances that McCutchen walks after his arb years are lower than people expect. I look at how Milwaukee has Ryan Braun locked up until 2020 as a good sign that the Pirates can sign McCutchen long-term. While I expect McCutchen to cost more, I don’t think it’s unrealistic to see him get that kind of money as long as the team is competitive (i.e., people are spending money on the team). The Pirates are in a tough financial situation to be sure, but they have a ton of room for growth; although that is a big “if,” it’s within reach.
lets hope Cutch gets up to Braun's level one day, and soon
cuz hes not that close right now.
by white angus on Nov 29, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
If I were the Pirates...
I would definitely start the process of saying that I am listening to offers with the plan to listen much more intently following next year. There are a couple of reasons why I would do this.
1. I want Cutch to stay a Pirate forever and would try to sign him in the mean time. If he doesn’t want to sign longterm then it is time to look for a deal.
2. I want to see how Marte handles AAA, Presley handles the majors, if Tabata continues to develop, Grossman recovers from hamate surgery and hits above A+, Josh Bell debuts, and if any prospect arrives on the map (ie. Rojas Jr. or perhaps Cunningham if he continues to show power and poor defense). I think this is the key to entire idea of trading Cutch way before his FA years. If we have a vast amount of outfielders and only three spots then maybe it will allow us to trade Cutch (just like the Rays and their players).
Pirates trading McCutchen would be worse than......
You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu
that looks more like Venus to me
fuk venus
by white angus on Nov 29, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Off Topic but reminds me
of the horrific Bruce Willis movie with the shitty Aerosmith song. Even Buscemi sucked in that flick.
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
Worst movie I ever saw.
You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu
by IAPiratesFan on Nov 28, 2011 9:45 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I've never felt so... manipulated
I mean, all movies manipulate – it’s how they work – but most of them aren’t so flagrant about it. Ugh.
i'll raise you VOLCANO w/tommy lee jones
by white angus on Nov 29, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Nope.
Crapmageddon is worse.
You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu
by IAPiratesFan on Nov 29, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
how about a double header of Volcano and Deep Impact?
by white angus on Nov 29, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Let's just say
about 20 minutes into movie one I start to really root for the asteroid.
by KentuckyPirate on Nov 29, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, now that I've actually seen Volcano....
It’s not that terrible. I watched it with my cousin tonight and we spent the whole movie making fun of it, mst3k-style. So for me, it was a lot of fun. Not like Crapmageddon at all.
I saw Deep Impact in 2000. It was pretty dreckish at the time, but my first thought was "At least it was better than Crapmeggdon.
You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu
by IAPiratesFan on Nov 30, 2011 1:58 AM EST up reply actions
I need you like Ben Affleck needs acting school / he was terrible in that film
Pearl Harbor sucked, and I miss you.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 30, 2011 7:08 AM EST up reply actions
I've seen it.
Armageddon was worse.
At least when the attack happens, it’s at least a little bit interesting.
You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu
by IAPiratesFan on Nov 30, 2011 8:48 AM EST up reply actions
VOLCANO was bad for many things, but the worst thing was...
the dozen or so “johnny on the spot” reporters who explain whats going on because the audience is too f-ing stoopid to understand why tommy lee jones is apparently as fireproof as Hellboy.
by white angus on Nov 30, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, whatever
on to more useful discussions, though— here’s a thought that I’ve had for a while and was wondering if anybody had any thoughts. So, there’s going to be a few guys coming out of the farm that become legit top drawer guys, or at least well above average. What if for the remaining spots (esp position players) you looked for guys that would hit a peak for a period of about 2-4 years and you used those as their pre-arb years. These guys are never going to be top prospects because of age since they will be in AAA around 25-26 years old, and periodically you gave one or two of these guys a shot at a hole in the lineup (think guys like Jones, Mcgehee, Presley and I think Freese will be one of those too, perhaps McLouth fits this too).
That’d give you well above average production from the lineup, and maybe if they have one or two really good years you can trade them for something good while at the top of their value.
Justin Upton rumors last year
Seems like the same sort of thing. It didn’t make much sense that Arizona would trade Upton then, just as it doesn’t make sense that we’d trade McCutchen now.
The only sorta-kinda, truth to this I can see is that if the Front Office has had private discussions and they know for a fact Andrew doesn’t want to be here long-term. If that’s the case, we have an adequate CF in Tabata until Marte is up, and then Tabby moves back to LF.
More
from Law.
“I’d ask for multiple 0-2 guys [players not yet eligible for arbitration] or prospects who profiled as impact players, and very few clubs could put that kind of package together. If McCutchen just wants Justin Upton money (six years, $51.25 million), I’d give it to him rather than trade him and see him become a superstar in 2012 for someone else.”
If that is all he wants, we need to sign him for that right now. Assuming he will make ~20-25 million over the next 3 years in arb anyway, that’s 3 years of free agency for an extra 25-30 million. That’s an absolute steal.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Nov 28, 2011 9:01 PM EST reply actions
If I were NH, I would sign that contract so fast it would make McCutchen's head spin
I’d guess Cutch’s agent knows that and is asking for a lot more.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Nov 28, 2011 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
I mean, not that he knows that I would sign it. He has no clue who I am.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Nov 28, 2011 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
Haha
I got your point.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Nov 28, 2011 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
He’s slated to make close to the league minimum in 2012.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Nov 29, 2011 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
Er
I meant if we signed him next offseason… I guess.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Nov 29, 2011 8:28 AM EST up reply actions
I remember when Jay Bruce signed the exact same deal...
…people said that would be the parameters for a McCutchen extension. Seems like long ago, though; I think Cutch could realistically ask for 6 yrs/$60MM minimum and I’m not sure money up to $75MM over the same space of time would be inappropriate.
Jose Tabata is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
It's Keith Law and a slow news day...
…what better way for him to work Bucco fans into a frenzy than to speculate that the team might listen to offers on Cutch. Do not get excited.
Not many Hebrews in Pittsbugh...
and even fewer who speak Aramaic.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 29, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
He'd resurrect baseball in Pittsburgh!
by JRoth95 on Nov 29, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Winnar.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 29, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
now is the time for extension
I’m sure Cutch doesnt want to make around half a milli next year. No idea what he HAS been offering but i’d be willing to go as high as 100 mil / 7 years if it meant the deal would be done. I would hope to get him for less than that, but that would still be a win for us right? I would really like to see an extra 2-3 years of control on the Cutch deal
I don't
think that would be a definite win.
Next year he will make no more than a million. In his 3 arb years, let’s say he makes.. even the absurd (absurdly high) amount of ~39 million. So over the next four years, he would have made 40 million (at the max). That means, essentially we would be buying out 3 years of extra control for 60 million. That’s 20 million a year, a huge investment into one player for a small market team. That’s also assuming he would have made 40 million over the next 4 years. Say he only makes 30 million (I believe that to be a more realistic figure). Then it’s 70 million over 3 years. 23.3 million dollars per year. That’s too much to be paying when we can simply enjoy 4 more years relatively cheap.
I think, more realistically for both sides, would be 7 years/70 million.. or something like that. It’s more likely that Cutch will make 25-35 million over the next 4 years, instead of 40 million. So that’s three extra years for around the total of 30 to 40 million. That’s about 10.0 million to 13.3 million a year per free agency year. That’s still a big chunk of change, but not outlandish.
That would be similar to the deal the Diamondbacks made with Upton. They extended him at the same time, after his second full year, and going into his last year of league minimum. If you also assume Justin Upton would make 25-35 million (which, is still a bit high I believe) in his 3 arb years (plus his 3rd year in the league) and the Diamondbacks got him for 51.25 M, that’s anywhere from 16-26 for 2 years, which is about 8 to 13 million for each free agency year.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Nov 29, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
While I am not one of these people
who believes McCutchen has a complete unwillingness to extend into his FA years, I think it would be unlikely that he’d be willing to give up three of them. I’d say a five year deal with a well paid player option for the sixth year is about as much as we can hope for at this point. If the team has made substantial strides that would indicate to Cutch (or any other FA for that matter) that they are better able to compete then there would be less incentive to leave. However, at this point the team hasn’t done enough to earn that reputation…not by a long shot. That’s why the player option seems fair. In some ways, it would force the team to put up or shut up. If, by the 2017 season, the team is a legit contender and Cutch has an option on the table for $18M or so, then there is a reason for him to stick around for another year. If the team hasn’t shown sufficient improvement and he thinks he can get more on the open market then he is free to move on to truly greener pastures.
by KentuckyPirate on Nov 29, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
with most of this. Honestly, I have no problem with keeping him until 2015 if he doesn’t want to sign an extension. Then go for it in 2015 like the Brewers did this year with Prince Fielder. Afterward, point to the success we had (hopefully) and try and re-sign Cutch.
If he walks, collect the two picks that still will exist (presumably Cutch will be worth well more than 11 million/year at that point so we will have no qualms offering that at the minimum) and move on.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Nov 29, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
Personally, if I was McCutchen, there’s no way I’d risk signing over my prime years to the Washington Generals. I’d be in wait-and-see mode right now. The only way I’d sign long-term with the Pirates would be if they totally bowled me over with a well-above-market contract. Even then, I’d sign with the idea that, if the bumbling continued, they’d probably have to find a way to move me eventually.
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
Isn't that exactly what Justin Upton did
by signing his extension right after the D-Backs went 72-90 in ‘09? Either way, an extension of 1 year with a player option for a second means he would really only be signing over his age 29 season with the opportunity to hit the open market as a 30 year old superstar. In return, he’d be given somewhere between $50-$75M as opposed to maybe the $30-40M he projects to make over the next four years going to arbitration…
by KentuckyPirate on Nov 29, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Arizona isn’t cold or snowy, it has fairly low income taxes for top earners, and in 2009 they were only one year removed from a winning season (and two removed from a division title).
It wasn’t a perfect situation, but it wasn’t bad.
Pittsburgh
isn’t cold or snowy either from May through September (I’ll admit that April here blows) and it isn’t 115 in July. Even when it does get cold, I’ve heard that Cutch is pretty close with a guy who owns a ski resort.
And while the D-Backs were a winning team in ‘08, they were only 82-80 so they weren’t world beaters. The team was even worse in 2010 than they were in ‘09. You could say that the Bucs might be lousy in 2012 but haven’t be been saying that this team might start being competitive by 2013? Not only that, I’d expect Cutch’s contract would be worth more than Upton’s.
Like I said above, I’m not convinced McCutchen will be willing to sign an extension but I also don’t think that he would be unwilling to if the price is right.
by KentuckyPirate on Nov 29, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
Non story
Totally not surprised it’s being blown out of proportion
agreed
IMO, if the FO didn’t listen to offers on anyone…they wouldn’t be doing their job.
“Thank you, but no thank you” is not a bad thing.
by insane_sanity on Nov 29, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
interesting this comes off the heal of bud telling us we can’t acquire prospects through the draft anymore…
by nealtherealdeal on Nov 29, 2011 3:58 PM EST reply actions
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