The Pirates Sign Nate Mclouth. What's the point?
by Anthony Defeo on Dec 11, 2011 6:36 PM EST
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PrintLast week, during the Winter baseball meetings, the Pittsburgh Pirates signed Nate Mclouth to a one year contract for $1.75 million. Mclouth, a former All Star outfielder for the Pirates who the team traded to the Atlanta Braves in '09, will be a reserve outfielder this time around.
The team also announced the signing of starting pitcher Erik Bedard to a one-year $4.5 million deal. Bedard was 5-9 last year with a 3.62 ERA with both the Mariners and Red Sox.
Is anyone excited about either move? I know I'm not.
This is why I laugh when people say the team needs to spend more money on salary. You know why? This is what they get. Players like this. Mclouth is a broken down version of his former self, and Bedard is Paul Maholm without the $9.75 million option; a pitcher who missed the 2010 season with an injury.
The Pirates also signed 36 year old catcher Rob Barajas to a one year, $4 million contract last month to be their catcher.
Doesn't this stuff sound familiar? It's scraps. Other people's scraps. These are the kinds of players that may be able to contribute a key start or an at-bat on a pennant contending team, but on a young time still trying to find its way, they are a waste of time and money.
This is why I laugh when anyone suggests that the answer for the team is to bolster their payroll.
Developing their minor league system through the draft is what's going to turn the Pittsburgh Pirates into contenders someday, not signing these guys.
So, next time you want to complain about the payroll, think about the type of free agent the Pirates normally sign, and instead of worrying about the payroll, worry about what the young players are doing both in the Majors and in the minor league system.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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I'm excited about Bedard
He’s good if he’s healthy. A 3.62 ERA ain’t chopped liver.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Dec 11, 2011 7:20 PM EST reply actions
also excited about Bedard...
just wish we could sign 3 or 4 of him to improve the odds on success.
by bucket of jim bibby sweat on Dec 11, 2011 7:33 PM EST reply actions
Stuff...
Without going back and digging through stats (which I am sure someone will) Maholm is a soft tossing pitch-to-contact lefty who doesn’t strike anybody out and relies on command.
Bedard, when healthy, is a strikeout type of pitcher with the stuff to be a #2 or #3 starter on a playoff team. (Boston traded for this guy last season to fill out their (hypothetical) playoff rotation.
The reason he comes cheaper than Maholm is that he is an injury risk. If he works out, he becomes the type of pitcher that an AL East (or AL West now for that matter) comes looking for at the trading deadline. You will never see Maholm traded to a contender at the deadline because in the post season, you need pitchers with stuff, and Maholm is no better than a #4 at best in a playoff rotation.
Pretty much this exactly
He averages almost 8.8 K/9 in his career, all in the American League. If he can stay healthy, he has the potential to absolutely mow through the NL.
Jose Tabata is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
ERA+
Min. 50 IP
Maholm: 94, 87, 114, 94, 79, 105
Bedard: 100, 108, 122, 146, 116, 153
Plus he’s $5 million cheaper this year. Not sure I see the problem…..
or if you prefer "normal" stats
ERA:
Maholm 4.76, 5.02, 3.71, 4.44, 5.10, 3.66
Bedard: 4.59, 4.00, 3.76, 3.16, 3.67, 2.82
Career K/9
Maholm: 5.5
Bedard: 8.8
go away clueless Yinzer troll
What a narrow-minded question.
by BadAndy on Dec 12, 2011 9:06 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
More entertaining?
Especially if you’ve seen Maholm pitch a bazillion times. It’s all about fans in the seats.
by Central*Scrutinizer on Dec 12, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
if we dont sign Chen
you might be right
by white angus on Dec 11, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
Chen
resigned with the Royals, didn’t he?
I still say...
that unless Chen has developed his forkball, he’ll be a bullpen arm.
by insane_sanity on Dec 12, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
What are people expecting as far as Bedard’s health? He pretty much missed July, and then more than two weeks in September when Boston was sinking. That doesn’t sound like someone who can be expected to fill a rotation spot.
by sanny manguillen on Dec 11, 2011 9:25 PM EST reply actions
To be honest…you blowing off Bedard as a “has-been” signing makes me raise my brow.
Thank you Ned Colletti.
What's the point?
He’ll probably be better than XP.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
I would have been more excited about the return of McLouth
if it was a minor-league deal with an invitation to spring training… the $1.75M is probably too high, but I’d argue the (opportunity cost) of his roster spot is more valuable at this time of year. I mean, how many other teams were going to offer McLouth anything?
regarding Bedard, he’s a gamble due to health concerns, but his ceiling is much higher than that of a healthy Maholm. and given the (apparent) lack of offers to Maholm thus far, it could be that his injury is much more serious than previously reported.
NH prob had to offer that guaranteed money to get mclouth to sign right up, if it was an NRI he would go to the team that had the best chance of finding a roster spot. Mclouth is basically what they wanted XP to be, a reasonable defender at all the spots, and left handed. He was pretty good at stealing when he was here, I’m assuming that hasn’t left him. His power stroke is still there, but his contact rate obvious went to the dumps. The central has a lot worse pitching than the East though, and Mclouth has a good chance of a bounceback season
Return...
I wouldn’t underestimate what a return to Pittsburgh could do for Nate. While I highly doubt any sort of return to his previous numbers, an improvement based on being comfortable and having much less pressure on him isn’t out of the question.
this has easily been the best offseason for signing FA's that the pirates have had in NH's term as GM
mostly hes been shying away from FA’s while the farm system builds up. he knows he needs to start adding more talent while the youngsters move up, but he has to get what he can. signing bedard is a huge plus. mclouth, while not great, is a perfect guy to be the 4th outfielder and could find his lost swing.
anyone who says any differently is punting themselves in the groin
I agree, I rather have 1/2 a season of Bedard than 1 season of medocre pitching. Still another reasonable quality pitcher would be nice. Maholm at 2 years 12-14 mil would be good.
totally agree
would love to give Chen a chance, but adding maholm at a cheaper price would be ideal.
the fact that theres been no buzz about him all winter leads me to believe that he will be had for less than the $9MM he would have made in 2012
by white angus on Dec 11, 2011 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
McLouth is a 4th outfielder
He’ll be better than XP. Good enough for me? Not sure anyone’s supposed to get excited over a bench player signing.
Bedard is exactly the kind of pitcher the Bucs should be signing. I have no doubt they’re going into this with their eyes wide open about his injury history. If he stays mostly healthy and can give 150-180 innings pitching to his capability, it’s a hell of a signing. If the Bucs are out of contention by the trade deadline, he can be dealt for a valuable return. If they’re in the middle of it, he’s a great guy to have anchoring the rotation. And if he gets hurt, well, it’s nothing we didn’t expect.
Not sure who you would have them sign. Do you think they should have gone after CJ Wilson? Should they go 8/175 on Prince Fielder? Would love to hear you suggestions.
Jose Tabata is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
McLouth
to me is just whatever. Bedard is a great signing. He cost less than Overbay and comes with significantly more upside.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 11, 2011 10:27 PM EST reply actions
I'm glad you're all more optimistic than I am.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m pretty positive about the Pirates future. It’s just that I don’t get where these deals are any different than what they have been doing in past offseasons.
Just as long as they don’t go out of their way to sign someone who may take a spot away from a younger guy with more upside, it’s ok with me. To that point, none of these signings appear to be the case.
its kind of simple, actually
Overbay was the only FA signing in NH’s term that was meant to be a starter, not including pitchers of course. Church, Crosby, Vasquez, etc.. all bench players.
so this year he grabs Barmes and Bajaras, both of whom are decent to better defensive players with some pop. they were both in demand and would have signed elsewhere quickly if we didnt pounce. then he signs bedard whom many teams would love to have. mclouth is just a bench signing but could be more in the long run.
overbay was signed simply because no other 1Bman would come to pittsburgh. we still need a 1Bman, so thats a big issue. but NH didnt wait around for the other guys. he pounced.
and i dont think hes done just yet
by white angus on Dec 11, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
I saw the stats for Barmes and Bajaras. If they were in demand, I hate to see the good players.
I think you’re being a little too optimistic in that regard.
by Anthony Defeo on Dec 11, 2011 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
you can look at the stats all you want
the fact of the matter is this: Barmes WAS the #3 shortstop available and he would have been vacuumed up quickly if not for Hurdle and NH
Barajas has always been in demand because of his pop and being not sucky behind the dish.
stats have nothing to do with being in demand. those 2 players, despite the OBP, would be signed by lots of teams
"I don’t get where these deals are any different than what they have been doing in past offseasons."
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.
But I think it’s pretty clear that the Bedard signing was a pretty nice one by NH. The definition of a low-risk, high reward move.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 11, 2011 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely
I am not sure if Bedard’s floor is much different the Correia’s last year, and his ceiling is much higher.
by Wizard of Woz on Dec 12, 2011 9:05 AM EST up reply actions
They’re different because past signings involved waiting until the end of the offseason and picking at scraps. This year, they targeted the players they want, and went out and got them, even though those players were in demand by other teams.
by thecheeseisblue on Dec 11, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
i dont think the FO waited for scraps
i think they got turned down by everybody and had to settle for Overbay. they did go after Correia though and had to offer that 2 year to get him on board.
Just as long as they don’t go out of their way to sign someone who may take a spot away from a younger guy with more upside, it’s ok with me. To that point, none of these signings appear to be the case.
I’m a little confused. Do you think McLouth and Bedard are taking spots away from guys with more upside?
by BurgherKing on Dec 11, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
No, I'm saying it's the only guys they can get, so what's the point of going after them?
Develop from within. Who cares about free agents like these guys? Spending money just for the sake of it, if you ask me.
by Anthony Defeo on Dec 11, 2011 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah guys! If every player we sign doesn’t provide at least 5 wins, it’s a waste of a signing.
by thecheeseisblue on Dec 12, 2011 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
the team IS developing from within
but its obvious that d’arnaud/mercer isnt ready to play SS, and that sanchez isnt ready for catching duties.
so how is signing Barmes/Barajas getting in the way of development???
development is a job of the minor league system. if the players are ready and worthy, they will get a shot. if not, this team is going to need some temporary players to step in.
(barmes, barajas, mclouth)
Somebody has to play everyday
And it’’s the front office’s duty to put at least a semi-competitive team on the field.
Would you rather Chase d’Arnaud at SS? Mike McKenry as everyday catcher? No thanks.
Jose Tabata is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
Give me Mike McKenry for an entire season over a 36 year old veteran who is no different than the Ryan Doumits of the world.
And when it comes to Barmes, what’s the difference between him and Cedeno? Just because these guys were top three in avalability doesn’t mean they should have been signed. Again, give me a young player like d’Arnaud and let him grow for an entire year.
by Anthony Defeo on Dec 12, 2011 9:24 AM EST up reply actions
I don't know about this;
“give me a young player like d’Arnaud and let him grow for an entire year.”
If a young player hasn’t proven they have mastered AAA yet, throwing them in the deep end could have more negative affect than positive.
McKenry and d'Arnaud starting 100+ games a year...
…would be an unholy disaster. Again, the FO is responsible for putting at least a semi-competitive team on the field.
Also, it often happens the way to “let a player grow” is not to throw him into the fire. In fact it very frequently has the opposite effect of ruining their confidence.
The difference between Barmes and Cedeno is consistency. You know exactly what you’re getting with Barmes. And really, Barmes also has a better glove than Ronny even when the latter was playing well. Also, there’s more than few indications that Ronny was something of a headcase who did not get along with Hurdle. I see no problem in the GM bringing in a player who his manager can work with better.
Barajas again is consistency. Doumit at his best is better than Rod, but between injuries and up and down play, you never knew who you were getting. Plus, keeping Doumit would’ve involved exercising a two year option for a whole assload of money. Barajas is better than McKenry and will probably only play 90-95 games, which will—wait for it—give McKenry a chance to grow!
Jose Tabata is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
the difference between Barmes and Cedeno:
easy: one is wanted, the other is not.
Cedeno is now a free agent. If he’s on par with Barmes, why hasnt he been signed??? No rumors or anything! He’s cheaper than Barmes too, so no one came blame money on this.
cmon man, its obvious. I liked Ronny’s defense. but Barmes is widely considered to be the better player which is why he was linked to multiple teams and why NH signed him quickly.
Ronny? not so much.
by white angus on Dec 12, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
You guys are settling for mediocrity, and with this new crew, that's all you're going to get.
My starting lineup next year:
LF: Tabata
CF: Cutch
RF: Presley
3B: Alvarez
SS: d’Arnoud
2B: Walker
1B: Hague
C: The Fort
Yeah, because that lineup could sure contend for the division
And I don’t know if you’ve been paying attention the last two decades, but mediocrity would be a giant step forward.
Jose Tabata is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
At least 3 of the players you have in that lineup are not ready for an everyday MLB job and Alvarez may be a fourth.
No, the names aren’t sexy but I would much rather see Barmes, Barajas and Jones/Evans over d’Arnoud, Hague and the guy with the cool nickname who is not an everyday MLB catcher.
I can see Fort is the new Eye Chart. gee, if only we had them both on the same team…..
the fact that you have Hague as your 1Bman doesnt make me want to take this post seriously
are you messing with our heads or something???
if not, no offense intended
by white angus on Dec 12, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
you even have Presley batting AFTER cutch.
wtf is going on??? somebody get this guy a 5HR energy or something.
by white angus on Dec 12, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
d'arnAud batting fifth??? surr'sley????
no way d’arnAud bats fifth. this guy is messing with our heads!!!!
arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
by white angus on Dec 12, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
If
Tony LaRussa used an “around the diamond” lineup format he would be an even bigger baseball genius than he is.
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
I wonder if he his
To tell me that I’m satisfied with mediocrity while at the same time saying Chase d’Arnaud & Michael McKenry should be everyday starters is amusingly ironic.
Jose Tabata is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
by Raybin on Dec 12, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
why do I have to be a troll or "just messing with you" because I'm not excited about mediocre signings?
I’m simply sick of these types of players. It’s been two decades of these types of signings. I can’t figure out why you’d rather have a 36 year old catcher over a young guy like Mckenry, who appears to be good with the pitching staff.
I’d rather see them go with youth from start to finish. Maybe d’Arnoud would completely bomb for a year as ss, but I’d rather see him than a “solid” guy like Barmes who isn’t going to help them win anything, ever. As far as Hague, maybe he’s not the next Prince Fielder, but he’s the top prospect at his position, and why not see how he’d respond for a full year? Or just platoon him with Garrett Jones. Whatever you want to do.
Is this how far we’ve sunk, we’re excited about 5-9 pitchers with arm trouble? Don’t we already have those everywhere in the organization?
You guys want them to finish at .500, I’m looking for them to build a future championship team. You’re not getting that by always signing guys to 1-2 year contracts who you’re going to trade away at the deadline for some minor league player who used to be a top ten prospect, but now is just a project because of a history of injuries and/or an attitude problem.
by Anthony Defeo on Dec 12, 2011 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
McKenry
is not a “young” guy by major league standards. In fact, they picked up off the minor league scrap heap. Just because he’s short and hustles a lot doesn’t make him a good player.
Maybe they have a plan for D’arnaud…he played at all 3 IF positions, so he’s likely going to get some starts at those 3 positions during the year. He did not appear ready last year, but its early. Sometimes its good to break young guys in slowly rather than throw them to the wolves. You DO have to put someone out there next year…all of these signings are only 1-2 years and are not blocking Manny Sanguillen and Honus Wagner.
lets see whom the world series champions signed last season, shall we...
Berkman… comeback player of year, was thought to be done the year before
Theriot
Punto
Laird
Westbrook… yes, aquired late the year before but did sign as free agent
so even the world champs sign players who dont light the world on fire. this doesnt include guys like trever miller who was dealt.
the key to this franchise is youth, you are correct on this. but ALL TEAMS sign veteran
“garbage” … every last one of them.
and whom did we just sign?
McGehee… could bounce back nicely, and yes we “signed” him
Barmes… better than theriot
Barajas
Bedard… best signing by Bucs in years
McLouth… similar to McGehee
the key, like i said, is to build with talented youth. but if they are not ready, youre gonna need some experienced guys to fill holes.
you absolutely do NOT put d’arnaud on the bench unless thats his future home- the bench. if he has a chance to be a starter one day, you keep him in AAA and let him play every damn day
Okay, I'm convinced.
This is just a trolling post.
Surprising.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 12, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think anyone on this board would disagree with your basic premise.
that the only way the Pirates will have a championship caliber team is to build from within and that the pieces they have added this offseason (with the possible exception of Bedard) will not move the needle much.
I have not heard anyone say they are “excited” about these signings. And truthfully the Pirates are not out there banging the drum too much over them either.
I’m not sure your suggestion to “play the kids” would work. You take a risk in running someone out there who is not ready and ruining them. Plus I think there is a responsibility to other players on the team. Frankly I don’t think Cutch and Walker are looking ahead wistfully to the future. They want to win now and I’m not sure that they want to sit around for 162 games while 1/3 of the lineup gets OJT. While the guys they signed are flawed, they a legitimate major league players.
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
LOL
I try to save my dumb-ass posts for Smizik’s blog.
Just kidding. I would never throw pearls before the swine that post on his blog.
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
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