Highlights From Interviews With Neal Huntington, Frank Coonelly
Friday night at PirateFest, Vlad and I spoke to Frank Coonelly and Neal Huntington, along with a couple of Pirates players. Joining us were Kevin and Matt from Pirates Prospects, Tom from RumBunter, Brian from Raise The Jolly Roger, and Jon from The "Mc" Effect. Thanks to Brian Warecki from the Pirates and to Tom for making this happen. Here are some highlights.
-P- Frank Coonelly said the Pirates' draft pool next year would be "around 10," as in 'around $10 million,' assuming the Bucs get a compensation pick for Derrek Lee. (They're already getting one for Ryan Doumit.) I'm not totally sure how the math works on that one, but there was a limited amount of time, so I felt like I needed to trust him to have done his own math on that. That said, I'd still like to see the breakdown - there's a $4.3 million difference between the recommended values of the eighth selection, which is where the Pirates pick, and the first, and the Astros (who are picking first, are only supposed to get a pool of $11.5 million. Those numbers would mean that the Pirates would be able to spend $2.8 million on the two comp picks, which seems unlikely to me. Obviously, though, if the Pirates got a $10 million draft pool, that would be much better than I expected.
-P- Coonelly said that the new CBA protects the Pirates from over-the-top draft spending by teams in larger markets. However, he says he still lobbied for "more substantial advantages based on market size" in the draft, as opposed to where teams finished in the previous season, and the Bucs did not receive as many of those kinds of advantages as Coonelly would have preferred.
-P- I asked Coonelly how the Pirates' near-term strategy signing amateurs in Latin America would be affected by changes in the new CBA. Coonelly noted that Latin American signings are not governed by the new CBA until July, and so Rene Gayo tried to figure out if there are any top talents who are eligible to sign before then. I asked if that meant the Pirates might try to throw some money around in Latin America before July, the way they did in last year's draft. Coonelly said he's thought about that, but that he and Gayo are of the opinion that there aren't a lot of players who are currently eligible to sign who are deserving of big money.
Coonelly also said the new CBA would prevent some teams (he wouldn't say who) from spending tons of money internationally without doing the appropriate level of scouting.
-P- Coonelly downplayed the importance of enormous TV contracts like the one the Angels recently agreed upon, on the grounds that the Pirates and other teams who did not have access to such TV contracts would receive some of that money back in revenue sharing.
-P- Coonelly said the Pirates support increasing minor-league player salaries and per diems so that minor-leaguers can eat better, but Major League Baseball as a whole would have to take care of that.
-P- Neal Huntington said the Pirates like Rule 5 pick Gustavo Nunez's abilities to field, run, and throw, and because the Pirates expect Neil Walker and Clint Barmes to play a lot as their infield starters, they may be able to keep Nunez on the roster the whole year. Nonetheless, Huntington isn't a big fan of the Rule 5 draft. "Even though we've taken a guy each of my five years here, I don't like the Rule 5 draft. I think it stagnates players' development ... If they'd done away with it in the Collective Bargaining Agreement, I would have been the first one to stand up and say, 'That's a good move.'"
-P- Huntington continued to say what he's been saying about Lee, which is that the Pirates are interested in having Lee come back, but Lee is exploring the free-agent market. It sounds like the Pirates are satisfied with Garrett Jones at first base, particularly now that they've also acquired Casey McGehee as well. Nick Evans and Jake Fox are still in the mix for bench spots.
-P- "I don't know that the New York Mets are looking to trade Ike Davis anytime soon," Huntington said. He didn't confirm that the Pirates had pursued Davis, and he doesn't sound too hopeful that the Mets will trade him anyway.
-P- Huntington repeatedly said that he's assuming Charlie Morton will be healthy to start the season. Morton says he'll be ready, and the medical reports so far have been positive. If Morton isn't ready to start the season, Brad Lincoln provides a good fallback option.
-P- Huntington generally doesn't like the idea of taking a pitcher who has been a reliever - like Chris Resop, Chris Leroux or Tony Watson - and putting him in the rotation, because having a player throw so many more pitches in a season is "risky."
-P- Huntington said that in recent years he has come to more greatly appreciate "the value of the intangibles and the non-quantifiable." He went on to say, however, that it's tough for a player to be a leader if he himself is not playing well, even if he's being professional about it. In other words, players like Matt Diaz and Lyle Overbay weren't able to lead effectively once it became clear that they weren't playing well.
-P- Huntington repeated that the goal of the minor-league system is not to have players put up ridiculous-looking performances that impress prospect evaluators, but rather to prepare them to play in the majors. He seemed to think Jameson Taillon, for example, could have destroyed Class A batters last season if he had been allowed full use of his breaking ball, but the Pirates wanted him to work on commanding his fastball instead.
-P- Huntington said that Gerrit Cole would probably start the 2012 season at Bradenton.
-P- We also spoke to Chris Resop and Clint Barmes, and I'll have more on those interviews later this weekend. Resop, in particular, was a really funny guy, and it turned out that a lot of our conversation with him focused on the differences between Major League and Japanese baseball. I think the whole Resop interview is probably worth transcribing, but I'll get to that later.
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Excellent work as always
Excellent news on Morton
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
by Kosstic518 on Dec 17, 2011 7:47 AM EST via mobile reply actions
On Morton
FC was asked about Morton when the caravan stopped at the Butler Institute of American Art* in Youngstown. He said something pretty close to: a) everything is going well, b) the recovery usually takes 4-6 months, c) Charlie is completely convinced it will be 4 months, d) but we’ll see.
- Probably not exciting to many BD readers, but the Butler is an amazing art museum. Many acquistions from back when Ytown was rolling in dough, but some newer ones as well – a Jackson Pollack and an iconic Norman Rockwell in the last couple years – mean it is way more museum than you would expect. Plus the Director is a rabid Pirates fan.
Don't
they have a few paintings by Edward Hopper there as well?
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
i believe they do.
I kow that some years back, they did an exhibition of pieces by my (then) Father-in-Law. It’s a very nice museum.
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 19, 2011 4:14 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Cool.
Sounds like a road trip for Pags.
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.
I asked Coonelly a question during the STH Q&A about the new CBA, namely about whether or not it inhibits the Bucs from getting anything remotely close to another Josh Bell in a second round. He put a happy spin in on his answer; he said it’s good for the Pirates since it means decisions will be made based on talent and not asking price, but I don’t see that as even a little bit good for us. He mentioned the lottery system for smaller markets to get extra picks as something that helps us, which is probably true, but he didn’t seem to be very genuinely excited about it. He helped draft it, too, which makes his positivity not entirely shocking.
On another note, it was a pleasure to finally meet Charlie and Vlad in person. Everybody’s different than they sound like when you’re reading their posts in your head.
No jinx no jinx no jinx.
Everybody’s different than they sound like when you’re reading their posts in your head
No kidding – You all sound like Australians to me!
by BlindSquirrel on Dec 18, 2011 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
Wish you’d have been there on Sat or Sun, too – would’ve been nice to meetcha…
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 19, 2011 4:15 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Thanks, guys,
for being there so I don’t have to.
Sometimes risk is worthwhile
Huntington generally doesn’t like the idea of taking a pitcher who has been a reliever – like Chris Resop, Chris Leroux or Tony Watson – and putting him in the rotation, because having a player throw so many more pitches in a season is “risky.”
Where would the Rangers have been without taking risks such as this the last 2 years?
Answer: Somewhere besides the World Series.
and how many CJ Wilson's are out there?
by white angus on Dec 17, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
Huntington did specifically mention Wilson, but seemed to think that he was more the exception than the rule. Which he’s right about, although that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be worth the risk.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Dec 17, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
The Rangers have also converted Scott Feldman and Alexi Ogando to starters and this year will try Neftali Feliz.
So, they’ve been pretty darn successful. Feldman had 3.5 WAR in 2009. Ogando had 3.6 WAR last year. They have more than paid for that risk. The Rangers have done it 3 times and been successful on all 3 of them so far to one degree or another. Certainly they have won more games because of it, and I can tell you they don’t go to the WS in either year if they didn’t do this. Maybe it’s just not allowed by the clubs, and that’s why Wilson (and Ogando and Feldman) are the exceptions.
by MarkInDallas on Dec 17, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
The Rangers
are a product of Nolan Ryan’s philosophy that to be good pitchers must learn by throwing more pitches in game situations. He has a dim view of pitch counts and is old school on the subject of workload. I take a middle ground, but am far more disposed to Ryan’s approach than take no risks philosophy espoused by Huntington. Thanks to it, we may never find out whether Leroux and Watson in particular could be successful starters.
"Throw strikes, but don't give him anything good to hit."
by RichieHebner on Dec 17, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
When you are ahead of the curve, that’s when you can exploit the famous “market inefficiencies”. When you wait for a ton of data to do it, then you’re just playing catch up.
by MarkInDallas on Dec 17, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
People keep talking about how Ryan hates pitch counts, but I don’t see much evidence of that. The Rangers’ inning totals were about what I’d expect from a rotation of that quality. In fact, maybe even less than you’d expect. They were near the top in the AL in starter ERA despite their ballpark, yet they were only fifth in starter innings. They had more 110+ pitch outings than the AL average, but they weren’t near the top. Their total, again, was about what you’d expect from one of the league’s best rotations. They had only three outings of 120 pitches.
I think the Ryan tough guy stuff is a media-generated myth, like Ozzie Guillen and smallball.
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
you can get to the same place taking a different road
it’s quite likely that the rangers don’t count pitches, but I’d be confident they have methods to determine whenever a pitcher is gassed, and take him out at that point. Then work on conditioning to increase the time before the pitcher is gassed.
Then the idea of letting a guy get his feet on the ground in MLB in the bullpen for a year or two, then go to the rotation. See John Smiley.
by Brian Cartwright on Dec 18, 2011 4:28 AM EST up reply actions
of course
but a theory is that pitchers get hurt by changing their mechanics when pitching tired, not because they are over a certain number of pitches. Some guys can keep their mechanics and their health to 130 or 140 pitches, for others it may be 90 – not 100 for everyone.
by Brian Cartwright on Dec 19, 2011 6:11 AM EST up reply actions
The strange part
is that 100 pitches really doesn’t seem to have any kind of scientific validity. I mean, there’s no studies, nothing that I’m aware of that prove that 100 is a good number to pull a pitcher out of in general. If I had to guess, a study like that would have a HUGE standard deviation, and the results would be relatively useless within one pitching staff of 5-7 starters. It’s just a nice round number.
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
To put this in perspective...
The Pirates have had 2 pitchers in the last 10 years with WAR of 3.5 or more. Oliver Perez in 2004 (4.5 WAR) and Ian Snell in 2007 (3.5 WAR).
The Rangers have taken 3 pitchers from the bullpen and made them starters in the last 3 years, and all 3 have had 3.5 WAR seasons, Wilson twice.
by MarkInDallas on Dec 17, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
"I think the whole Resop interview is probably worth transcribing, but I'll get to that later."
I’m looking forward to this. As I’ve said before, I didn’t have a very good impression of Resop after reading some negative things about him in Japan-mainly about money.
On the other hand, just about any foreigner that shows up there with MLB experience and doesn’t do well is roundly criticized.
He’s done a good job for the Bucs and I hope it continues next year.
パトリック
"Huntington generally doesn't like the idea of taking a pitcher who has been a reliever - like Chris Resop, Chris Leroux or Tony Watson - and putting him in the rotation, because having a player throw so many more pitches in a season is "risky."
Resop doesn’t have the pitches necessary to transition to starter. Be happy that he’s done a solid job out of the ’pen. Watson finally found a niche as a reliever. What about his minor league experience as a starter would lead anyone to believe using him as a starter in Pgh. is a viable option? I think some people who support the “Watson For Starter” stuff would be surprised at the drop-off in his velocity. And when I see Leroux pitch, I just hope that he can get the job done for an inning and not need more than 12-15 pitches.
パトリック
Agreed, Resop as a starter would be a disaster. You can’t throw 95 fastballs over 100 pitches over five or six innings and expect to get away with it.
No jinx no jinx no jinx.
by Suffering Buc on Dec 17, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
+1
I don’t know as much about Leroux, but Resop (as he himself said) has little starting experience and doesn’t even have a good second pitch, much less a third. Watson was moved to the bullpen because he has a significant injury history and his arm wasn’t holding up as a starter. I’d be mortified if they tried either one as a starter.
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
Leroux is the one who should be starting, not the others.
I just can’t believe he’s not going to start, actually. If there’s no attempt to have him start after what he’s shown, there’s something seriously wrong with the thought process.
by MarkInDallas on Dec 17, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
And you’re basing this on . . . what, exactly? A few good games in winter ball before most of the big leaguers arrive?
Leroux has started exactly 11 games in the minors, none after 2006. The Marlins moved him to the bullpen permanently when he was in low A. What exactly is the evidence that he’s so perfectly suited to starting?
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
Point is, he has shown he deserves a chance.
CJ Wilson told Rangers management he wanted to start. He had never started a game in AAA and had started 6 games in MLB 5 years before that. He had had a good year in the pen before that, just like Leroux. Nobody in the press here in Dallas thought he could be a starter. Management said, "OK, come into camp ready to compete for a starting spot and prove it." He did and won the job.
Leroux has done the same thing now with Bucs’ management. His experience in winter ball is actually more evidence that he might be a good starter than Wilson had. The Pirates are always saying "The player will show us what they can or can’t do." Here’s a chance to put their money where their mouth is. If Leroux works out like one of the 3 Ranger experiments in doing it, that’s likely an extra 3 or 4 games the Pirates will win in 2012.
Look at where the Rangers pitching WAR has come from the last several years (besides Cliff Lee). They haven’t had to pay big money for any of it, and none of them were highly touted can’t miss prospects. Without these kinds of decisions, the Rangers would not have won the division, let alone gone to the WS.
by MarkInDallas on Dec 17, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
So . . . he has shown he deserves a chance because it worked with CJ Wilson. I’m underwhelmed.
Wilson, btw, had been a mostly good reliever for about 250 games in the majors. He also was a starter in 70 of his 95 games in the minors. The only reason he hadn’t started in AAA was that he almost entirely skipped AAA. He only ever pitched nine games there. He started 38 games in AA.
Leroux, by contrast, has pitched in relief in 212 of his 223 minor league games. He’s never started above low A. He also has yet to show he can pitch in any role in the majors. He’s only pitched in 51 major league games and was consistently bad until late this year, and even then he struggled for much of September.
Your comparison doesn’t provide any more evidence for Leroux starting than it does for any of our other relievers. I’d like the FO to have more to go on than having a reliever ask to start and point to CJ Wilson.
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
When I've heard Huntington speak about Leroux
He has never said that Leroux doesn’t have the stuff to be a starter, they’re concerned he doesn’t have the pitches, etc. In fact, he specifically said he thought his winter ball performance was real. His concern was having him throw so many pitches over the previous year.
What I’m saying is, that’s not a good enough reason not to use Leroux for half the season as a starter like Ogando was last year.
by MarkInDallas on Dec 18, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
Just having good stuff doesn’t make a guy a candidate to be a starter. Bullpens are full of guys with mid-90s fastballs who can’t make it as starters, and there are plenty of guys with good stuff who can’t cut it above AAA. Remember Wil Ledezma and Tim Wood? There’s just nothing in Leroux’s track record to show that he’s that good. (And winter ball means precisely shit. Ronny Cedeno tears up winter ball every year. I still remember people getting all excited about Yurendell DeCaster and Jean Machi because they dominated winter ball.) This isn’t CJ Wilson we’re talking about. Wilson was doing very well as a starter in the minors when he hurt his elbow in 2004 and he was a successful major league reliever when he moved to the rotation. Leroux doesn’t have the track record to merit a shot at starting over guys like Lincoln and Locke.
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
If Huntington is concerned about the amount of pitches that Leroux threw during 2011, why is he pitching winter ball?
So did you guys get the impression that it’s either Lee resigns or Jones is the starting 1b?
by Danatural08 on Dec 17, 2011 11:19 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Haha
So Jones I guess at this point?
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 17, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
Frank Coonelly said the Pirates’ draft pool next year would be “around 10,” as in ‘around $10 million,’ assuming the Bucs get a compensation pick for Derrek Lee. (They’re already getting one for Ryan Doumit.) I’m not totally sure how the math works on that one, but there was a limited amount of time, so I felt like I needed to trust him to have done his own math on that. That said, I’d still like to see the breakdown – there’s a $4.3 million difference between the recommended values of the eighth selection, which is where the Pirates pick, and the first, and the Astros (who are picking first, are only supposed to get a pool of $11.5 million. Those numbers would mean that the Pirates would be able to spend $2.8 million on the two comp picks, which seems unlikely to me. Obviously, though, if the Pirates got a $10 million draft pool, that would be much better than I expected.
That number seems a bit high, but basically right based on the calculations I’ve ran.
Huntington repeated that the goal of the minor-league system is not to have players put up ridiculous-looking performances that impress prospect evaluators, but rather to prepare them to play in the majors. He seemed to think Jameson Taillon, for example, could have destroyed Class A batters last season if he had been allowed full use of his breaking ball, but the Pirates wanted him to work on commanding his fastball instead.
Good, very good. I think many fans, myself included, put too much stock in prospect lists which invariabley come from the numbers a prospect puts up. The more dominant the numbers, the higher ranked a player will be, but that doesn’t always mean a player developed optimally.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 17, 2011 7:45 PM EST reply actions
Pirate Fest
I just thought I’d mention that I skipped Pirate Fest for the first time ever.
I still just don’t feel too good about the whole situation that this ownership has put us in.
Too many years now.
Looking at this interview makes me wonder why no one ever asks management the tough questions.
I know when I was there in the recent past, it all seemed pretty controlled.
Oh well, just have to hope they can turn it around.
My patience with Huntington and Coonelly is about up.
It’s hard to blame anyone that questions them these days.
I’m not sure exactly what you mean, but whenever someone says something like, “Looking at this interview makes me wonder why no one ever asks management the tough questions,” I always wonder what kinds of questions they mean. I suspect for a lot of people, those kinds of questions would be like, “Do you ever feel bad for being so evil?” or something. Maybe that’s not the kind of question you’re talking about. But we’ve gotten that kind of criticism in the past, and I’ve always thought, “Well, we can stage an intervention, or we can try to get information. It’s pretty hard to do both.”
by Charlie Wilmoth on Dec 18, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Relievers to starters
As mentioned by Brian Cartwright above, I miss the old-school days when a guy got his start as a reliever before being converted to a starter. This approach has worked well for the Twins in the last several years (Johan in 2000-2003, Liriano 05-06). In a Leo Mazzone world, it would let pitchers gain some experience at the MLB level in a comfortable situation before being asked for too much.
In this case, I’m not so sure that NH completely dismisses it as much as he’s not had any reason to believe it. Leroux, Resop, and Watson aren’t dominating guys or even tantalizing like Joba Chamberlain was. I see no reason as to why he wouldn’t be open to it if suggested by a player or manager, especially if that pitcher’s skillset warranted it (like Derek Lowe’s).
Leroux, Resop, and Watson aren’t dominating guys
This is the real issue. Guys like Chapman and Feliz are being moved because they’re great talents who should be pitching a lot of a team’s innings. Leroux, Resop and Watson are marginal talents who’re able (we hope) to succeed in limited roles. For the most part, starters are starters because they’re better pitchers. There’s nothing in the backgrounds of these guys to suggest that they’re that good.
Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!
New CBA draft strategy
No real evidentiary support, but I would think that better Latin American scouting seems like the obvious way to counteract new drafting restrictions. The Pirates aren’t rich enough to battle the big boys when it comes to big Latin names (or even big Japanese names), but they’ve already shown a willingness to test non-traditional waters (Rinku Singh?) and I think that’s an advantage they can use. I also see no reason not to grab Boras’ inevitable “top talent, headed to college because I can’t get my ridiculous money unless…” guy, pay him $10 million, and find underslot, signability guys, and/or organizational guys the rest of the way. That can’t be an annual plan, but it seems solid in a draft with a super-mega-talent at the top: this year, it wouldn’t have been prudent, but I see a draft where the only real prospect gained is Bryce Harper or Stephen Strasburg as a win.
that reminds me
It’s time to Fanshot Rinku’s Australian Baseball League numbers again. He seems to be pitching very well there.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Dec 18, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
o.O
I’m looking at that right now. Da-je-vu or something.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 18, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe could look in Pakistan as well?
They’re always trying to one up the Indians…
by BlindSquirrel on Dec 18, 2011 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nice job Charlie
Proud fan of Pittsburgh's professional sports teams and the Pirates too.
by Black&GoldTrain on Dec 19, 2011 8:20 PM EST reply actions
Yep
Thanks to all who attended and posted. Appreciate the efforts guys.
"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.

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