Bucs Dugout Community Prospect #1
by epoc on Dec 21, 2011 12:01 PM EST
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Who's the top prospect in the system? Vote in the comments using the +1 method. If there's anyone I didn't include in the poll who you'd like to vote for, you can write him in under "others." If there's anyone you'd like to see added to upcoming polls, put his name under "suggestions."
The candidates are: Josh Bell, Gerrit Cole, Robbie Grossman, Luis Heredia, Starling Marte, and Jameson Taillon.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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+1
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Dec 21, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Okay, I'll bite.
+1
________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 22, 2011 8:48 AM EST up reply actions
+1
"So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded?! Yea. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us an you're retarded. Thats 25 percent." Southpark; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce
RIP Corey Keller, James Taylor, M. Jay Darby, Derek Davis.
by gorillakilla34 on Dec 23, 2011 2:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
STARLING MARTE OVERRATED
At best I see his offensive numbers similar to Alex Presley. Marte has gold-glove defense.
Oooookay
Then. I guess that actually seems a bit reasonable, and that’s a very valuable player, although not #1 over Cole and Taillon; I do agree with that.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 22, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Presley last season had a wRC+ of 122. If Marte did that, it would put him between McCutchen and Melky Cabrera among center fielders last season with the bat. Meaning you’re talking about a 4 win player if his defense is bad. With really good defense, that makes Marte a 6+ win player, easily. If he manages that, maybe he should be our top prospect.
by thecheeseisblue on Dec 23, 2011 8:27 AM EST up reply actions
+1
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
+1
I could feel his muscle tissues collapse under my force. It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm. ~~ Mike Tyson
forgot to mention
I’m planning on running these polls from noon to noon, giving everyone 24 hours to vote. Does that seem like a good time frame?
Eh
Well I assume we are only doing 20, maybe 30 of these, rather than 125 or whatever they are doing over on minor league ball.
As such, I’d say 48 hours. Leaves more time for people to vote, more time for discussion, and it will allow this to go on longer, giving us more to do during the (still!) 4 months until exciting stuff happens.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 21, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
personally
I’d love to do 40 or 50 of these. I don’t really care about the list, which will get crazy after 20 or so, but I’d love to debate the merits of Brandon Cumpton vs. Tyler Waldron.
But if people think each poll should go for 48 instead of 24, that’s fine with me. Anyone else have an opinion?
24- or 48-hour 'windows' to vote might be fine during the work week
but new ‘polls’ probably shouldn’t be scheduled to run during the upcoming 3-day weekends
good point
I won’t post new polls over the holiday weekends.
It was a tough call
Taillon’s ceiling is approximately the moon and to be a 19 year old kid with a curve that could already buckle the knees of Major League hitters (if what I read is true)…that’s really special.
But Cole already has 3 or 4 plus pitches and can keep touching 99 in the 7th inning. That’s tough, REAL TOUGH, to vote against.
I really went with ML readiness over upside in this case, which isn’t what I usually do. But Cole can be really, really special.
Jose Tabata is the truth
The following is a list of everything Darren McFadden is bad at: 1) Giving birth. End of list.
I agree with this completely except that I voted for the upside. Little doubt that they both could be very special, sure hope its not an either/or.
by thisistheseason on Dec 21, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Cole's upside is too great to ignore...
but he isn’t nearly as finished a product as somebody like Hultzen. He may take longer than people think to develop superior command. It wouldn’t surprise me if Taillon and Cole end up arriving in the bigs no more than a year apart. Add Marte, Grossman, Dickerson, Bell, our other prospects, and stir.
www.drstrangeglove.com
by nycbucsfan on Dec 21, 2011 2:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Go
up to where it says Cole, hit reply, and then type +1. Not trying to be mean either, just trying to help.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 21, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
let's rec this post to put it up top
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Dec 21, 2011 2:12 PM EST reply actions
cant we just do
the normal voting in the poll thing instead of using the +1 system? Im just saying, makes it easier to count votes
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
We
hate a vote on this and voted this way C Shint. Where were you man?
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 21, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
apparently
not present, i just hate scrolling through many +1 comments lol. But I guess i’ll have to play along here
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
Yes
you will, and you will like it.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 21, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
I dont
hate a vote… I think voting is neat!
by BlindSquirrel on Dec 21, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
Darn
you. My typo’s are getting ridiculously frequent. I’m proofreading this over and over again right now. Looks good.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 21, 2011 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
should be "typos"
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Dec 21, 2011 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
Die die die die
Wow, Law School has killed my brain. (Oh crap, I had “brian” typed before it became underlined in red)
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 21, 2011 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
This
new blog post is gonna be an absolute B lol. I hope I don’t offend Zach Dodson too much.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 21, 2011 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
Someone's never lived in SC...
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
My roommate went campaigning for Obama in Greenville during the last election, and he and his friends went out to eat after. He still had is Obama shirt on, and several places refused to serve them because of it. And Greenville is the liberal part of South Carolina.
by thecheeseisblue on Dec 23, 2011 8:32 AM EST up reply actions
Close call
I just think Cole is more advanced. Taillon could wind up the better pitcher in the long run because of his curve but right now, I just think Taillon still has work to do to get where Cole already is. I can’t just assume that Taillon will make the same strides that Cole already has even if I think (and hope) that he will.
True
dat.
Although it’s more like Verlander and Verlander hopefully.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 21, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
This is basically how I feel.
And why I vote Cole. I see them as having the same super high ceiling but Cole being slightly further along, thus having a higher floor.
"So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded?! Yea. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us an you're retarded. Thats 25 percent." Southpark; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce
RIP Corey Keller, James Taylor, M. Jay Darby, Derek Davis.
by gorillakilla34 on Dec 23, 2011 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
Marte
upside, and numbers at a higher level than the other guys. He is closer to realizing his potential than the other guys.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
can’t argue Marte is quite possibly the closest but upside wise/realizing his potential, well look no further than Cole or Taillon really harnessing their command and you have two Ace like pitchers
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
Or we could have
Kip Wells and Kris Benson. I remember ESPN picking both of those guys at one time to win Cy Youngs. Pitching is more of a gamble than position players.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
True
that’s why you get two of them. Hopefully three if you include Heredia.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 22, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
ixnay on the enerationjay aykay
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Dec 24, 2011 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think Marte is any closer than Cole. Both of them could be in the bigs by August or so, and I can see Cole having more immediate success, since his command (IMO) isn’t as big a concern as Marte’s plate discipline.
Eh
I can see your August prediction if I squint really hard. I doubt it happens, but if it does, it kinds sends a message from NH that the Pirates are working on winning in a window, a window that will end in 2015 when Cutch leaves without being extended. That’s reading into stuff alot though.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 21, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
to be clear
I’m not saying it’s likely that either Marte or Cole are in the bigs by August. That’s more like a best-case-scenario for either one of them. My point is just that Marte isn’t any closer than Cole is to being ready for the bigs.
Always my favorite
When I a kid and went to my first Bucco game the promo was Bat Day (not mini-bats mind you). he became my favorite Pirate that day, and has remained so ever since.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I am just glad that there is legit debate over who the top prospect is
and that it’s between two potential aces.
Hear hear
bro. Looking forward to another great year of development. We have so many guys who can blow up too.
Stetson Allie
Zach Von Rosenberg
Nick Kingham
Alen Hanson
Jared Lakind
Mel Rojas Jr.
Clay Holmes
etc etc.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 21, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
Kingham
is my pick to dominate and get the call to the next level by midseason
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
I'll take Stetson
because of how badly I want it to be true. Actually, I think that ZVR will take a step forward
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
I think Allie
needs another year, same for Heredia before we see anything “special”. With Kingham I just get the feeling that everything is already there and its just a matter of time before he simply just runs with it. Good size, good control, solid heat, a mix of different pitches with fairly good polish. If he gets some sizeable “leash” to pitch with at WV, he could dominate.
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
Hope
you are right, cause I’ll be there to watch it.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 22, 2011 2:01 AM EST up reply actions
I think you're right
Like I said, it was more that I wanted him to haha. Having pitched for such a short period of time before being drafted, I believe it’s going to take a while before things really click for Allie. This is the year I’m thinking ZVR puts on those extra MPHs that we’ve all been looking for, and I think he’s going to take off. I see good things.
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
that is a great point about him not pitching much before the draft. i read somewhere that it takes about 10,000 hours of practice at something to become an “expert”/master whatever it is you are doing.
by Cainyoudigit on Dec 22, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
down on Allie and Lakind
(in fairness, i was always down on Allie)
I m disappointed with Lakind’s performance so far. I wonder if there’s any thought to putitng him back on the mound…
Ya
I am too, but it doesn’t mean they have potential. I’m not expecting Lakind to be a top 100 prospect by the end of the year, but he could turn into Wes Freeman. Allie, on the other hand, could turn himself into a top 100 prospect and I don’t think anyone would be more than mildly/pleasantly surprised.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 22, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
I voted for Cole
But, as with all of my picks, everything I say/vote for is based on the knowledge of others. I haven’t seen any of these guys live and frankly, I wouldn’t be able to make an informed decision even after I had seen them. For what it’s worth, I was leaning towards Taillon, but the great epoc v McCutchenIsTheTruth debates on the last thread swayed me to the Cole train. (Sorry McCutchenIsTheTruth. I’m really enjoying your new blog btw.)
It's a good day to be a Pirate
Haha
no problem man. I think Epoc has almost swayed me actually. For the record, he knows way more than I do. I appreciate the love on my blog. Just got twitter too!
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 21, 2011 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
So Im seeing it as
26 Cole v 15 Taillon right now. Cant say Im surprised. To me they are both almost equals, yet Cole pitched in college and has a bit better command on the secondary stuff and is considered closer to the majors.
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
I'm
actually surprised Taillon got as many votes as he did. I feet like I was in a very small minority having him as my #1.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 22, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
My guess is that most see their upside being the same? In which case I suppose Taillon still has room to grow. I though consider them almost equals as I just said in terms of upside, and thus am going with the game that has faced some stiffer competition and is closer to the majors
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
This
My thought process exactly. I see them as having equal upside, but Cole’s floor is a little bit higher right now. I’m with you though MCTruth, I thought this one was going to be a runaway for Cole.
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
Like I said in the last thread, I think the big question is Taillon’s “slider.” If he’s got a plus slider, you could flip a coin for Taillon vs. Cole, IMO. But whether or not he’s got that slider seems like an open question right now, which makes Cole’s three plus pitches pretty hard to beat.
Er
Cole’s changeup is a pretty big question too. It went from Johan-esque to non-existent in half a season. To me, that’s a bigger worry than Taillon’s “slider”
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 22, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
First of all, I don’t see how that’s a bigger worry than Taillon’s slider. In the case of Cole’s changeup, we at least know that he has one, and we also know that it’s gotten 70 grades at times. With Taillon’s slider, we don’t even know if he has one, and it’s never gotten 70 grades (that I’ve seen).
Secondly, it’s not even close to being true that Cole’s changeup is non-existent. He was throwing it in the AFL. I saw it myself during the AFL all-star game, and if you don’t want to take my word you can ask notorious Pirate-hater Keith Law about it.
I completely
believe you. I just haven’t seen any reports on it. Good to hear.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 22, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
correct me if im wrong
but i coulda swore Taillon threw a curve, and Cole had the slider
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
Taillon has an awesome curve, but pre-draft reports said he also had a plus slider. As far as I can tell, he didn’t throw a slider at all this season, though. I’m not sure whether the pre-draft reports were wrong or whether he just didn’t throw the slider this year for some reason. There are good sources (Baseball America, for one) who are still saying that Taillon has a plus slider.
Cole has a slider, but no curve.
ah
was unaware of this predraft slider, thought it was just the curve, this slider talk makes a lot more sense now. thanks.
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
The
point is, no one knows… at least I don’t
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 23, 2011 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
well if he has one
and did not use it this year, i cant imagine it being very good this season if he has had no reps using it. then again who am i to say lol.
with his fastball and curve, im really not concerned about this slider as long as the changeup develops (does he even throw a changeup, now you all have me guessing on his pitch repertoire)
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
He
definitely throws a change-up. Saw it multiple times. Great sink, promising fade-action, plenty of velocity separation from his fastball. Problem was he had no idea where it was going.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 23, 2011 3:01 AM EST up reply actions
don't the pirates have a fastball only approach.
the first year.
by karreemofwheat on Dec 23, 2011 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
Ya
but that’s more in the GCL and State College and with guys who aren’t the rare elite guy like Taillon.
Plus it’s fastball heavy not “only.” Taillon through his curveball and changeup enough that had a slider been part of arsenal I would think I would have seen it.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 23, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Cole is #1 right now.
A WVU loss in the Orange Bowl would make a good start to 2012.
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