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Why The Pirates Won The Joel Hanrahan - Nyjer Morgan Trade

Something got me to thinking earlier today about the 2009 trade in which the Pirates received Joel Hanrahan and Lastings Milledge in exchange for Nyjer Morgan and Sean Burnett. It's a very interesting trade, and it's one in which the Pirates cleaned the Nationals' clocks, and yet even Neal Huntington defenders rarely talk about it, probably because there are a lot of moving parts and loose ends.

It's an interesting trade in part because it wasn't like a lot of trades Huntington was making at the time, in which he'd ship out veterans for prospects. Regardless of your preferred way of thinking about those trades, they turn out to be pretty easy to evaluate. (Either the Pirates got good value at the time, or they didn't; or, either the prospects worked out, or they didn't.) Instead, the Nationals/Pirates swap was a challenge trade between two teams whose goals should have been pretty much the same. Both were dreadful teams who should have been trying to build for the future.

First, some values since the trade:

Nyjer Morgan: 3.1 WAR in 2009, 1.1 in 2010

Sean Burnett: -0.1 WAR in 2009, 1.4 in 2010, -0.4 in 2011

Total for the Nationals: 5.1 WAR

The Nationals also got Cutter Dykstra and cash when they shipped Morgan to Milwaukee; Dykstra was horrendous in Class A+ in 2011 as a 22-year-old and probably isn't going to turn into anything.

Lastings Milledge: 0.6 WAR in 2009, 0.6 in 2010

Joel Hanrahan: 0.5 WAR in 2009, 1.4 in 2010, 2.0 in 2011

Total for the Pirates: 5.1 WAR

So far, the WAR totals for the trade come out even. And yet I think the Pirates came out way, way ahead. A couple points about that.

-P- You could make a very good argument that Nyjer Morgan was the best player involved in the trade, and actually, his 2009 turned out to be a thing of beauty, as he posted 5.2 WAR in only 120 games. And yes, his ridiculous 27.6 UZR that year was an enormous fluke, but still, that's amazing. Unfortunately for the Nationals, Morgan turns out to be completely insane. The quality of his play is also almost as unpredictable as his personality, and so when he spent 2010 not hitting and acting completely bonkers, the Nationals traded him, and got very little. (There's some pun in there about the Nationals getting a "Cutter"-rate return, but ... ah, actually, I think I just went there, unfortunately.)

-P- All the Nats have left over from the trade now is Burnett, a generic lefty reliever. Hanrahan is a nasty, fireballing closer. The Pirates are likely to continue to get more value in the future from Hanrahan's play than the Nats get from Burnett's, and in the likely event that the Bucs end up dealing Hanrahan, they're going to get even more value back then, because GMs love flamethrowing closers.

-P- This is the key point:

Based on what we knew in 2009, some of the eventual outcomes of these players' careers would have been hard to predict. In some alternate universe, Morgan doesn't completely lose his mind. (In fact, if there's some alternate universe out there, Morgan probably already has an alter ego ready.) In that alternate universe, maybe Milledge blossoms into a minor star. Maybe Hanrahan continues to struggle with his control and flames out after a couple frustrating seasons in middle relief. Burnett turned out to be a generic lefty reliever in real life, which was probably his upside at the time of the trade. But a lot of things could have happened with the other three players.

When we look at the range of possible outcomes at the time, though, the Pirates had a plan - they traded for two young players with upside when their value was low. The Nats, on the other hand, traded for an older outfielder when his value was high, and a generic reliever whose value was unlikely to increase much. This would have been one thing if the Nats had been a contending team then, but they weren't. They won 58 games in 2008 and 59 in 2009.

So why did they make this trade? It's true that Morgan was and is an outstanding defensive outfielder, but there wasn't much in his profile to suggest he could hit much, so what plan did the Nats, a rebuilding team, have for turning Morgan into talent that could help them in the future? Morgan turned 29 two days after the trade and appeared to be playing at the peak of his ability; it wasn't as if he looked likely to be a long-term piece.

And so now, in 2011, the Pirates are still getting value from this trade, whereas the Nationals really aren't. Both teams are still struggling to contend, but only one of them can continue to use what they got in this trade to help them do so, and that's the Pirates.

That outcome was easy to predict at the time. The particulars weren't easy to predict - Milledge easily could have been the player who broke out, but his power never came along. But the Pirates got two players with upside, and one of those players, Hanrahan, reached that upside. The Nationals, meanwhile, got a speedy defensive outfielder and a random middle reliever. That might have made sense if they'd been in contention and they needed those things for a stretch run. But what they really needed was upside, and instead of acquiring it, they gave it away.

Poker analogy alert! I was playing a no-limit hold-em cash game with my brother a while ago, and he was in the small blind. An aggressive player in late position raised to four big blinds, and my brother called. I forget what happened, but it turned out my brother had ace-10 offsuit.

Now, I guess calling was a defensible play, but I would have preferred to see him either reraise or fold to such a large raise, because there were three rounds of betting after that, and my brother would have to act before the aggressive player on each of them. If an ace or 10 didn't come on the flop, as was likely, my brother might easily end up having to fold the best hand; if an ace or 10 did hit, my brother would have to proceed gingerly, knowing he could end up losing a lot of money against a hand like ace-jack that had him dominated.

When I asked him why he decided to call before the flop, my brother said that he called because he was likely to have the best hand. Well, true, but it's not a great idea to call without having a plan on future rounds of betting, knowing your opponent will be able to act after you each time. I would much rather be raising with a speculative hand like 8-7 suited in late position and have my opponent call me with ace-10 than be the one with the ace-10, because there are a number of high-upside outcomes if I'm the one with 8-7 suited and the opportunity to act last during each round of betting, and very few if I'm the one with ace-10.

The Nationals were the team with ace-10 in this situation. They got Morgan, who was the best player at the time. But they didn't have a plan beyond simply getting the best player. The Pirates did, and assuming they're able to trade Hanrahan sometime soon, they're going to be the team reaping the benefits.

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stuff. I think that’s why it’s prudent to avoid 1 for 1 trades if possible, such as Freddy Sanchez for Tim Alderson. Not sure if NH could have gotten a multi-player package worth anything, but as soon as Alderson busted, Sanchez was “wasted.” Something similar could happen to the White Sox when they traded Santos for Nestor Molina.

Milledge failed, but Hanrahan blossomed. Not what was planned per se, but the general idea was excuted.

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 22, 2011 2:52 AM EST reply actions  

if you look at it another way

burnett and morgan contributed to the nats subpar 2009, which allowed them to be slightly worse than our buccos. this allowed them to draft bryce harper in 2010.

(i know this doesn’t really stand up since, as you said, morgan was downright useful, but hey, it’s 3am and CutchTruth and i apparently don’t sleep)

by johnnycuff on Dec 22, 2011 3:43 AM EST reply actions  

I was too

And the reason I didn’t reply was because I didn’t really catch the poker analogy haha. So I figured I’d go to sleep and see what happened. Worked out pretty well

The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass

by glass0941 on Dec 22, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Well thought-out, well put-together

In other news: I’ve got a “friendly” poker game that meets on Thursdays… any chance your brother is interested?

by SuperBaes on Dec 22, 2011 4:19 AM EST reply actions  

Tampa

We actually put together a back alley game and poached a few bigger money “players” from the Hard Rock here, but it didn’t seem prudent to keep shearing that sheep.

by SuperBaes on Dec 23, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

thank goodness for Zoober

by Mr. E on Dec 22, 2011 4:51 AM EST reply actions  

Ha!

+52

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 22, 2011 7:35 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't play poker.

So yeah, that was kind of like a foreign language. I wish you had a euchre analogy…

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Dec 22, 2011 8:08 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

It’s like having the J of trump (Nyjer) and nothing else or the off J, A and K (Hammer)

by Mr. E on Dec 22, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Thank-you....

Are you from Dubuque too?

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Dec 23, 2011 5:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Euchre is big

in Western PA, too.

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 23, 2011 8:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh yeah.

Well here, the old saying is “Dubuquers know how to play Euchre.”

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Dec 23, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

They'd have to.

…not much else rhymes with “Dubuquers.”

One of them starts with “P,” so that isn’t very flattering.

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 24, 2011 6:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Palookas?

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.

by WHYG Zane Smith on Dec 24, 2011 8:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Okay...

now can you do Hearts, Crazy Eights and Go Fish?

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 23, 2011 8:16 AM EST up reply actions  

You forgot UNO.

Put on your dancin' shoes.

by PensFan024 on Dec 23, 2011 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, yeah.

And Old Maid, too.

Didn’t wanna overwhelm him…

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 23, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

haha

if I really tried, maybe sheepshead (for all Wisconsin Pirate fans) and Bridge (for the older lot)

by Mr. E on Dec 23, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

No one had any idea what Euchre was when we were in college; people looked at us like we had spots.

by SuperBaes on Dec 23, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Yay!

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 22, 2011 8:30 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Yep.

Come ‘n’ get it!

I’ll be at the pub at 3.

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 22, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep.

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 22, 2011 11:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Yunz missed the first one.

But bars in Chicago routinely stay open until 4, so…

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 22, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

4:00 in the morning?

That is freaking late. Nothing in Iowa stays open after 1:00. Mostly because nobody can sell booze between 2:00 and 6:00 in the morning.

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Dec 23, 2011 5:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Same as California.

The 2:00 – 6:00 thing, that is.

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 23, 2011 8:19 AM EST up reply actions  

I liked this trade right from the beginning

BC mainly it was trading away players that had no use to us long term for players that could potentially be. The trade really didn’t make much sense for the nationals, who were in as bad as situation as we were at the major league level

by Mingy on Dec 22, 2011 8:52 AM EST reply actions  

am I nuts to think we should've kept Milledge?

It’s not like he put up Andy LaRoche numbers — he seems like he might have been league average as a RH platoon bat. And he hit OK in the White Sox AAA system last year. He’d have been better than Matt Diaz in the RH platoon role, and though at the time we might not have been able to anticipate Diaz’s total collapse, going with a Diaz over a Milledge is the definition of a move with no upside.

It might depend on how much you hate Milledge’s defense, but again, Matt Diaz.

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.

by WHYG Zane Smith on Dec 22, 2011 9:08 AM EST reply actions  

yep

wondered this myself. Isnt he STILL a better fit than Nate the not so great too because of RH bat?

One time in SBar right after the trade occurred i tried to give Lastings Milledge a shot of Patron because i was absolutely housed. He said "nah bro, it’s cool man, give it to this bitch righ here though’ and i did a shot with a random skanky looking blonde. Then i bro-hugged Lastings Milledge and told him how pumped i was to have him on the squad. It was essentially the coolest 5 minutes of my life and i would like to somehow think i helped Lastings Milledge get laid that night. My friends with me at S-Bar were like “who the hell is Lastings Milledge?!”

True story

by Mingy on Dec 22, 2011 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

“…coolest 5 minutes of my life…”

Here’s to hoping your life improves [raises IC longneck]

by lambert58 on Dec 22, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

guess i’m going to have to start notating sarcasm

by Mingy on Dec 22, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't know

That would be pretty sick actually

The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass

by glass0941 on Dec 22, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I definitely think they should have held onto LM.

Put on your dancin' shoes.

by PensFan024 on Dec 22, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

im torn about it

i never thought he was bad, yet definately not good enough to play ahead of our current starting 3.

to be honest, he wont be missed

by white angus on Dec 22, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

I just thought he was a useful bench player. Better than Diaz I think.

Put on your dancin' shoes.

by PensFan024 on Dec 22, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

yet diaz was praised for more than numbers

which people, especially on this blog, seem to forget.

by white angus on Dec 22, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Well he had to be praised for something

And it sure as hell wasn’t going to be his numbers…

by Superstar25 on Dec 24, 2011 3:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Of course, having said that, I DO respect all the time and effort he puts into his charity work with the Diaz Family Foundation.

by Superstar25 on Dec 24, 2011 3:15 AM EST up reply actions  

our current manager believes that its more than just numbers and potential, especially for backup positions and role players

milledge would have been a backup and hurdle/NH wanted to go the vet route, hence the “leadership” talk which clint had talked about recently

by white angus on Dec 22, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

not really, he hasn't changed a bit

One thing I enjoy about my MLE’s at THT Forecasts is that it accounts for and combines all levels played in a season.

Here’s Milledge


Year Org Level BA OB SA wOBA Fld
2008 WAS AAA/MLB 268 326 410 321 -1
2009 PIT AAA/MLB 273 319 390 312 -18
2010 PIT Win/MLB 268 321 389 312 -14
2011 CHA AAA/Win 272 329 416 324 -3

Even though Milledge hit 292/355/438 in 129 games in 2011 for batter friendly Charlotte, and 304/384/500 in 36 Winter league games, after accounting for the level of competition he performed exactly the same as he had for the previous three years. If the guy had Nyjer Morgan’s glove and legs he might put up positive WAR, but that’s one of the most consistent showings of ‘meh’ available.

by Brian Cartwright on Dec 22, 2011 8:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Great write up.

Boy did I hate Morgan then, and I still hate him now.

Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained

by Kosstic518 on Dec 22, 2011 11:23 AM EST reply actions  

I just appreciate the fact

that while the rest of the world is focused on Christmas crap, you’re thinking about 2-year-old trades.

Well done, sir, and a merry (or whatever) Festivus to you!

by bucdaddy on Dec 22, 2011 11:29 AM EST reply actions  

I believe it's

Merry 2012 Pirates Season.

by MDBuc on Dec 22, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

my thought was that

charlie’s 1250+ word defense of this trade was somewha akin to arguing passionately that gravity exists.

I never had the bubbling hatred for Nyjer that many of you do, but perhaps that’s because I don’t see the games. On the other hand, I wasn’t seething when he lit it up for the Nats in 09. Milledge’s potential far outweighed Nyjer’s, and Hanrahan was obviously a worthwhile risk, while throwing in Burnett was essentially zero risk.

As it turned out, we ended up with a very good closer who kept us from kvetching about who knows how many heartbreaking losses, and who may yet provide us with some prospect windfall. Nyjer won’t be doing that for the Brewers, and he sure as hell didn’t for the Nats, for whom trading him was addition by subtraction following his 2010 meltdowns.

by mocasdad on Dec 23, 2011 8:19 AM EST up reply actions  

We could also end up trading Hanrahan for 2 top 100 prospects at the deadline. Which would mean Morgan and Burnett would turn into 2 top 100 prospects.

by Cainyoudigit on Dec 22, 2011 11:43 AM EST reply actions  

and in the likely event that the Bucs end up dealing Hanrahan, they’re going to get even more value back then, because GMs love flamethrowing closers.

Although I feel like the Pirates will hold onto Hanrahan for some reason.. I also am not sure how I feel about that.

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 22, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Wasn’t there some debate here about whether closers fetch better returns at the deadline? In fact, didn’t somebody study that?

There are still closers on the market now and they just cost money and not top prospects, so it doesn’t strike me as the best time right now. If the Pirates’ 2012 season is over by mid-May, like it was every year until 2011, I think there’ll be enough pressure that NH will have to take action. Trading Hanrahan will be one of the biggest moves he can make. If they’re within reach of .500, they won’t trade Hanrahan.

Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!

by WTM on Dec 22, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't find the study right now, but I think it wound up being pretty inconclusive

They looked at something like eight closer trades over four years, and the deadline ones fetched more than the offseason ones, but not much? Don’t remember, but it was something like that with pretty small sample size and not a dramatic difference in results — nothing to hang your hat on.

Still, I think you’re right about whether Hanrahan stays or goes, and when. Also, the Briz points out that the actual market for closers doesn’t look so strong right now.

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.

by WHYG Zane Smith on Dec 22, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Meh. Eight trades isn’t enough of a sample size anyway.

Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!

by WTM on Dec 22, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Ooh, ooh, can you analyze the Jason Bay trade next?

by dirkcalloway on Dec 22, 2011 3:59 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions  

And see, I thought you only cared about Steve Pearce. Points for mixing it up, but you still can’t come back once you’re banned.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Dec 22, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Tell that to

pirates21/kentkekulve/primetime99/fatbastard/senatorblutarsky /pineapplepete …

;-)

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 22, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Bay Trade

Dirk, I’m going to guess that your grandfather spent a lot of time bitching and moaning about the Kiner trade and that your apparent inability to let things go is an inherited trait.

"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.

by Pagliaroni on Dec 22, 2011 6:48 PM EST reply actions  

NH traded Kiner?!

What an idiot!

Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!

by WTM on Dec 22, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Well

We have, indeed, finished last without him.

by JRoth95 on Dec 23, 2011 2:38 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

He's probably still pissed about....

the Kiki Cuyler trade or giving away Joe Cronin.

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Dec 23, 2011 6:04 AM EST up reply actions  

with kuyler

it was a case of trading a year too early rather than a year too late ;-)

And no, I’m not THAT old.

by mocasdad on Dec 23, 2011 8:24 AM EST up reply actions  

I wish I could recall

In the aftermath of that trade, I had some formulation about the likely futures of Milledge and Nyjer, something to the effect that I expected Nyjer to out-produce Milledge, but that Milledge was more likely to be on an MLB roster in 2014. I don’t think I gave much thought to Hanny becoming anything, because this was before NH had shown any ability to build bullpens. I figured Joel was roughly another Yates.

by JRoth95 on Dec 23, 2011 2:44 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions  

Morgan and veteranosity

It occurs to me that Nyjer could be an excellent example of a guy who benefits from a clubhouse with “veteran presence”. When he went off the rails in DC in ’10, was there anyone of stature on that roster? We all hate the Brewers, but Braun and Fielder are clearly guys who would have the credibility to keep Morgan in the zone where he can be a character without becoming a character issue.

Just a thought.

by JRoth95 on Dec 23, 2011 2:48 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions  

And now...

Fielder is gone…and Braun will be for a third of the season. If Morgan isn’t a character issue now, he probably will be before 2012 ends. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him gone from the Brewers roster a year from now.

by Thunder on Dec 23, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree with you to an extent

that maybe those guys did help keep a lid on him somewhat. I’m still convinced however that NyMo is truly “Koo-Koo for Cocoa Puffs” and that eventually, no matter who is on his team he will be crawling up the side of a batting cage ala Tony Perkins as Jimmy Piersall.

"Don Mossi was the complete five-tool ugly player. He could run ugly, hit ugly, throw ugly, field ugly and ugly for power.

by Pagliaroni on Dec 25, 2011 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

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