Bucs Dugout Community Prospect #7
by epoc on Dec 29, 2011 6:44 PM EST
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With 51% of the vote, Robbie Grossman becomes our number six prospect. Tony Sanchez got 36%, and Allie, Cain, Kingham, and McPherson all got a bit of support as well. Here's our list so far:
1. Gerrit Cole
2. Jameson Taillon
3. Starling Marte
4. Josh Bell
5. Luis Heredia
6. Robbie Grossman
Neither Jarek Cunningham nor Alex Dickerson received any votes, so I'm dropping them out of the poll for now. In their place, I'm adding Rudy Owens and Jeff Locke as requested. If you want to vote for anyone who's not listed, you know what to do.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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+1
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Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 29, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
+1
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Dec 29, 2011 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
+1
Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained
by Kosstic518 on Dec 29, 2011 10:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
+1
"So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded?! Yea. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us an you're retarded. Thats 25 percent." Southpark; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce
RIP Corey Keller, James Taylor, M. Jay Darby, Derek Davis.
by gorillakilla34 on Dec 30, 2011 1:06 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
This is when it is going to get really fun.
I like seeing how people others come to their decisions. Do you like the high ceiling of Allie? The high floor of McPherson? How much damage did last season do to Rudy’s prospect status?
I don’t think we’ll see as many run-a ways from here on out.
It's a good day to be a Pirate
blahhhh
one bad year from a guy and everyone is jumping ship. I hope Sanchez sneaks in here. He should be no lower than 7 at this point.
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
You could make the same argument for Owens, although he didn’t keep the good peripherals the way Sanchez did.
It's a good day to be a Pirate
eh while true
Owens was never really a “prospect”. Rather he came out of the blue and put up a highly impressive season at AA. While nothing to scoff at, he hasn’t had more than #3-4 SP potential.
On the flip side, there was a reason Sanchez was so high on our top 10 boards since being drafted, and why he was a 1st round pick. Not to say that could all have been smoke in the mirror since his college days but I still think he is going to be successful in the MLB.
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
Owens really came out of the blue and put up two highly impressive seasons — at low-A and hi-A in 2009 and AA in 2010.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Dec 29, 2011 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
and despite those impressive seasons, there was still skeptism about his future outlook. The same rings true for Sanchez, but Sanchez had the pedigree before a down year. Owens was not much until his two good seasons and still wasn’t regarded as much more than middle/back of rotation.
What I am saying is Sanchez always had the upside, one down year wont sway me from it.
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
I get
what you are saying and agree. I was always skeptical of Owens, but I wasn’t of Sanchez, due to the pedigree.
Sanchez still managed to walk alot and he will be fine defensively. Owens say his K/9 rate tank.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 30, 2011 12:49 AM EST up reply actions
I somewhat agree on Sanchez.
He does have the pedigree advantage. Although outside his “ML ready defense” people were split whether he’d hit like Yadier or Bengie Molina.
Also on the Owens subject, I think he established legit prospect status after 2 solid seasons. Rudy’s shoulder soreness/injury could be just as much to blame for his down
K/9 in 2011 Sanchez’s jaw was to his offense.
But I voted Sanchez so obviously I’m with you guys in saying he’s the superior prospect.
"So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded?! Yea. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us an you're retarded. Thats 25 percent." Southpark; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce
RIP Corey Keller, James Taylor, M. Jay Darby, Derek Davis.
by gorillakilla34 on Dec 30, 2011 1:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Case for Owens
This is the top prospect list not the best year list. I like the prospects on this list except for Sanchez. But Owens is still the best prospect. He just had a bad year. Don’t overreact to one year where he was injured.
His minor league K/9 is 7.3 and that includes his awful year last year. His BB/9 is under 2, again including a year last year where he walked a lot. And don’t miss this fact a HR/9 under 1. He did that even last year.
This is a left handed starter throwing in the 90’s with has a great change up. All his stats are about the same as McPherson, the same age as McPherson, but a level ahead of McPherson. And he is left handed which is of greater value.
Kingham, Cain, and Allie all have higher ceilings, but lower floors, and have not really hit the good competition in the minors. Locke in my opinion also has a lower floor. Owens was in everyone’s top 10 last year. One bad year that may have been because of injury should not drop him this far.
by SojourningPirate on Dec 30, 2011 1:26 AM EST reply actions
Well it was actually a combo of his injury, the acquisitions of Cole and Bell, the breakouts of Grossman and McPherson and further development of Marte. It was a perfect storm of events that dropped Rudy this far and I’m sure even farther once the voting is done.
"So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded?! Yea. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us an you're retarded. Thats 25 percent." Southpark; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce
RIP Corey Keller, James Taylor, M. Jay Darby, Derek Davis.
by gorillakilla34 on Dec 30, 2011 1:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don’t think it’s a case of people overreacting to a bad year so much as people finally realizing that Owens’s stuff isn’t very good. I do like his changeup, but the fastball and curve are nothing special. I don’t think his command is as good as advertised either. I still like him as a possible #5 starter at some point, though.
Compare him to McPherson: Fear has the better fastball (velo and movement), better curve, better change, better control and command.
Woah
The fastball I’ll grant you. The curveball I’ll grant you. Not so sure on the change, but that’s not my main qualm right now. I don’t know as much about McPherson as I do Owens because I saw Owens pitch two or three times at WV as he was breaking out, but Owens has impeccable control and command. I’m not saying it’s better than McPherson’s but I have an a hard time believing McPherson’s is better than Owens.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 30, 2011 4:10 AM EST up reply actions
meh
I wasn’t impressed with Owens’ command this year. I was pretty disappointed by how highly it had been regarded previously, in fact. I know a lot of people like Rudy’s command more than I do, though. That’s cool. The point is that McPherson has most of Owens’s strengths (good changeup, good control/command) without any of his weaknesses (mediocre fastball and curve). The only thing Owens clearly does better than McPherson is throw with his left hand.
I love watching thesse polls progress
McPherson looks like he will be a solid second place here, but do the voters from Sanchez go to him, or slide somewhere else? Its like a straw poll, kinda. Love watching it in action.
Just out of curiosity
how long are we planning on making this list? I looked back at earlier posts and didn’t see it outlined. My suggestion would be 30 spots. Cutting it off at 20 would eliminate some really interesting guys but stretching it out past 30 and you’re mostly ranking filler players.
To
infinity! The LA Dodgers site has a top 200 list. It’s not a voted list, just a personal list but it’s insane. Do we even have 200 prospects?
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 30, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
I like
at least 30. Maybe 50 if we really wanna have some fun. I say you just go until we stop getting significant amounts of votes.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 30, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
25?
A nice number to end on. Plus I like the sound of it, “Here is our top 25 prospects list!”
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
i'd like to see 75 or more
even though i’ve only voted once so far. but i’ve got a list of about 120 not counting foreign leagues and i’d be more interested to see and hear viewpoints on the 50-100 range. how do lodge, I. sanchez and castro stand up to each other. herrand. any more info/opinions that i can get interests me. more than the pirates prospects guide/wtm’s profiles etc. but of course if there’s very little participation it might have to end when it ends.
damn, I hadn't even heard of those guys
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Dec 31, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
Hmm
Castro
gap
Lodge
Sanchez
How’s that?
And ya I know who they are lol. Orlando Castro, Jackson Lodge, Isaac Sanchez. Castro has the edge because he just came off a solid season at state college while the other ones haven’t done much anywhere. I like Lodge better than Sanchez because of age. I believe Lodge is about a year younger than Sanchez…. Checking… 2 days off actually, oh well.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jan 1, 2012 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
i'd like 50
i usually dont see these in time, since i’m traveling byut the discussion part will be much more interesting past 20, maybe even 15. Managing the votes might get significantly harder at that point, though (so since I haven’t volunteered to help, i’ll let those running this decide)
by BurgherKing on Dec 31, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
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