Pirates Could Be Quiet During Winter Meetings

by Charlie Wilmoth on Dec 4, 2011 1:11 PM EST

Jenifer Langosch writes that the Pirates are unlikely to do much during the Winter Meetings. They're unlikely to do very much to fix their first-base problem, because they don't yet know whether Derrek Lee will accept their arbitration offer. (If Lee is planning on rejecting it, as expected, he could do the Pirates a big favor today by just telling them. Also, Langosch writes that the Pirates might not be able to do much with their rotation issues, either.

Second, the Pirates could find that they have to wait for some of the big-name free agents to settle before the rest of the market falls into place. That is particularly the case with first base and pitching, the club's primary areas of need.

One might think that the signings of Chris Capuano and Bruce Chen would have already set the market for the types of pitchers the Pirates can afford.

We haven't yet heard much about what the Pirates plan to do at third base. I can't imagine they're comfortable just going with Pedro Alvarez without some sort of serious contingency plan, and yet we never seem to hear about that.

Tweet Comment 43 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Last year they signed Overbay at the meetings, or right after. Staying home would be a step up from that.

Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!

by WTM on Dec 4, 2011 1:35 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

Agreed.

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Dec 4, 2011 2:40 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions

I think Nick Evans is the contingency plan for Alvarez. Not a bad choice, IMO. Young, controllable guy with a hint of upside.

by epoc on Dec 4, 2011 1:44 PM EST reply actions

Evans has only played two games at third in the majors, and not much more in the minors.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Dec 4, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions

I'm aware of that

But he posted excellent defensive numbers there in the minors, and is a brilliant defender at 1B. It’s not unrealistic to think that he can handle the position.

by epoc on Dec 4, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions

I dunno

The fact that he only played 53 games at third in the minors, compared to over 600 games at easier defensive positions, would seem to indicate that the Mets thought he couldn’t handle the position.

Don’t guys usually play the toughest position they can in the minors, even if they’re not all that great at it?

by maguro on Dec 4, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions

It’s obvious the Mets didn’t think he could play there. (Also, I totally misread his defensive stats; he was below-average at 3B in the minors, not excellent.) But he’s not going to be the starter there or anything. He’s just a contingency plan in case Alvarez falls on his face again. As 4A/bench depth who could step in and not embarrass himself if Alvarez sucks, he seems like a pretty good option to me.

by epoc on Dec 4, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions

btw

He’s also probably a contingency in case Derrek Lee leaves. He’d be good as the short-side of a platoon at 1B.

by epoc on Dec 4, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions

How's he compare with JHarrison?

I realize opinions around here on mixed on Harrison, but let’s say for argument’s sake that he’s a passable defender at 3B with a decent bench bat. No upside as a starter, but possibly a solid long-term UT guy, especially if he can learn to play an inning or three at SS.

by JRoth95 on Dec 4, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions

As for the Mets

Don’t forget that 3B was a very low priority for them with Wright on hand. Ike Davis has proved pretty good at 1B, but until he came up, that was a much bigger question mark than 3B has been.

I’m going to throw in the caveat that he should be played at his toughest position, per maguro, but the Mets haven’t been run all that well, so it wouldn’t be shocking for them to emphasize 1B at the expense of future flexibility.

by JRoth95 on Dec 4, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions

"Evans has only played two games at third in the majors, and not much more in the minors."

Sounds like Steve Pearce.

I’m hoping Evans can give us something positive from the right side off the bench. Getting him on a minor-league deal is just fine.

パトリック

by patthatt on Dec 4, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions

thats how it looks to me too

by white angus on Dec 4, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions

What's the deadline

for Lee to accept/reject arbitration?

by biggyv on Dec 4, 2011 2:41 PM EST reply actions

Dec. 12?

Not certain, but it’s about that – right after the Winter Meetings, basically.

by JRoth95 on Dec 4, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions

I thought it was this wednesday????

by BigB2323 on Dec 4, 2011 7:53 PM EST up reply actions

You're right

Dec. 12 is the last date to tender contracts.

If DLee waits to the last minute, the Bucs would have the last day of Winter Meetings to seek deals. But that’s also Rule 5 day, so….

by JRoth95 on Dec 4, 2011 10:12 PM EST up reply actions

I think D. Lee stays with the Bucs for the '12 season,

with the knowledge that the team will trade him to a contender by July 31st.

We get a quality 1B for a few months, he gets about $8 million bucks, then he gets to finish his career with a better club. Sounds like a potential good deal for everyone.

パトリック

by patthatt on Dec 4, 2011 2:41 PM EST reply actions

I'd hate to miss out on a draft pick....

But it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world.

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Dec 4, 2011 2:59 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions

We need to stop the draft pick delusions and start worrying more about putting a competitive team on the field in Pgh.

If they keep Lee and he plays well, they very well could trade him for someone more interesting, and closer to MLB ready, than an anononymous draft choice.

パトリック

by patthatt on Dec 4, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions

Um...

You do realize that some of those draft picks could become major leaguers eventually?

And not everyone who gets traded becomes a Major Leaguer, right?

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Dec 4, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions

While

I agree its about time to worry about putting a competitive team on the field in Pittsburgh rather than Charleston West Virginia, you said…

with the knowledge that the team will trade him to a contender by July 31st.

In that case, it makes you sound almost resigned to the fact that we won’t compete year. If that’s what the Front Office thinks as well, then I’d rather

1) Save the money it takes to pay him
2) Get the draft picks
3) Lose more the first half of the season so we have a better draft pick in 2013

Now I will get crucified for 3), but if we aren’t gonna legitimately compete, I’d rather draft say 3rd, than 11th.

Now despite all that, signing Barmes and Barajas, rather than going with cheaper options, makes me think we aren’t punting next season. I’m totally okay with that as well, as long as we don’t mortgage out future.

I’d love to get Lee back, sign two solid free agent SP’s (maybe make a splash and go sign Kuroda to a 2 year deal, and then like an Aaron Cook). With improvement from Walker and Cutch, significant improvement from Alvarez, and healthy-ness from Tabata, next year could be a good year yet.

I wonder if the FO is waiting to see where Pujols and Fielder end up.

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 4, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions

Hope springs eternal

Charlie Morton finds his inner Halladay and saws through the NL? Someone finds Pedro Ciriaco and he has a respectable season? Evan Meek remembers how to pitch and has a 2.0 WAR year?

I wonder if the FO is waiting to see where Pujols and Fielder end up.

I think that’s a good time to start getting agressive about dealing Hammer. Rafael Soriano got monstrously overpaid because the Yankees missed out on Cliff Lee; why not take advantage of a team with money burning a hole in their pocket? I still think that CF-types Tabata and Presley have serious value to Washington.

by SuperBaes on Dec 4, 2011 11:30 PM EST up reply actions

We don’t need a team with money burning a hole in their pocket, though — Hammer is cheap.

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.

by WHYG Zane Smith on Dec 5, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions

Not rich, just trigger happy.

I didn’t mean a team with a bunch cash, I meant a team looking to spend. If a team like Minnesota goes hard after Madson and he signs somewhere else, it seems like NH could capitalize on how much they’ve magnified that need. Or the Yankees if someone else signs C.J. Wilson.

by SuperBaes on Dec 5, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions

IAPF

It’s very simple. Keep Lee and get max use out of him, probably til the trading deadline. Have a more competitive team on the field for about 100 games. Keep the fans happy. The Nuttings make more money. Then trade Lee, if the Pirates are under .500 and out of it, which they probably will be.

I would rather get a known quantity who may or may not help the Bucs pretty soon, rather than a draft pick who may end up being the quality of, say, Pounders or Black. Could be something better, true, but I think my possible scenario for Lee makes more sense.

It will be interesting to see how things play out.

パトリック

by patthatt on Dec 4, 2011 6:03 PM EST reply actions

"It’s very simple. Keep Lee and get max use out of him, probably til the trading deadline."

It’s simple only if DLee will play here, amigo.

And IMO, that’s a long shot.

If I’m not mistaken, my friend IAPF is referring to the comp pick we would get for DLee.

If he were any kind of cool, DLee would give the Bucs an indication sooner rather than later, so NH could conceivably make a move / trade at the Meetings.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.
________________________________
Follow @cocktailsfor2

by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 4, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions

And

I agree with you.

It will be interesting…

________________________________
Free your ass and your mind will follow.

Follow @cocktailsfor2

by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 4, 2011 6:30 PM EST up reply actions

I think Harrison

is the 3rd base contingency plan.

by ATribeCalledGreg on Dec 4, 2011 6:09 PM EST reply actions

that

is a scary plan.

by Garrett122 on Dec 4, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah. I’m not talking about someone who could potentially get 100 at bats and not kill you. I’m talking about someone who could potentially take 500 and not kill you.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Dec 4, 2011 7:25 PM EST up reply actions

That's how I'd characterize the problem as well

Wouldn’t be shocking if PA gets sent down May 1 and doesn’t reappear until Sept. 1. Grim, but not shocking.

FWIW, it also wouldn’t be shocking if he’s our best hitter in 2012. It’s not likely, and it’s certainly not what you assume will happen, but it’s not like GFJones’ 2009 – a complete outlier.

If we go into ST without a viable, 100 game 3B in addition to PA, it will be a failure by NH – either a failure of planning, or a failure of roster management.

by JRoth95 on Dec 4, 2011 10:16 PM EST up reply actions

I hope D’Arnaud and Mercer are above Harrison on the totem pole. If all 4 flop, oh well.

by Mr. E on Dec 5, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions

Its not that scary

by BigB2323 on Dec 4, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah.

Because Selig in an attempt to make MLB more like the NFL will starting to fine Harrison in Pittsburgh.

You gotta aim high to fail so big. - Trace Beaulieu

by IAPiratesFan on Dec 5, 2011 7:09 AM EST up reply actions

If Alvarez isn't a lot better they're screwed anyway.

I let Pedro go end to end at third. I just don’t see any good in being here a year from now and wondering if the 26-year will ever step up.

by sanny manguillen on Dec 4, 2011 7:58 PM EST reply actions

I really can’t see any logic at all in looking for another thirdbaseman. If Alvarez doesn’t come through, this season is shot regardless. Bringing in some third tier player to take playing time away from him just guarantees another lost season. What’s the point of that?

Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!

by WTM on Dec 4, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions

I’m talking about getting someone like Wilson Betemit who can be a good bench player if Alvarez does come through, and can start if he looks as clueless as he did last year. He doesn’t need to get in the way if Alvarez shows up ready to play.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Dec 4, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions

I’d rather get somebody who can play short, which Betemit hasn’t done since 2008. Not necessarily play it well, but who can play it in a pinch and who can also hit. Otherwise they’re liable to end up with Pedro Ciriaco on the roster all year. I hate seeing them carry zero-bat bench players.

The Pirates may disagree, though. They’ve inquired about Ian Stewart.

Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!

by WTM on Dec 4, 2011 8:25 PM EST up reply actions