Pirates Trade Brooks Pounders To Royals For Yamaico Navarro

by Charlie Wilmoth on Dec 8, 2011 12:08 AM EST

The Pirates have traded Brooks Pounders and infielder Diego Goris to the Royals for infielder Yamaico Navarro.

Navarro came to the Royals from the Red Sox in a trade for Mike Aviles. It's hard to get a read on his hitting ability because he has played at several different levels in all of the last three years, but he held his own at Class AAA as a 23-year-old, so he's probably not a complete zero with the bat, and scouts seem to like his hitting ability. His defense, however, isn't highly regarded. He'll need to be added to the 40-man roster. He can play a bit of shortstop (although it doesn't sound like he's the kind of guy you'd want there for more than a few games) along with second and third, and the Red Sox also had him try playing all three outfield positions, so there are lots of ways he can be useful. It's not yet clear where he'll fit in with Chase d'Arnaud and Josh Harrison, but this might be a case where the Pirates figured they could cheaply get a guy who has a bit of power potential, and they'd sort out the details later. Here's a good scouting report. There are mentions of issues with his work ethic and/or lapses in concentration in everything I've read about him so far, but his offensive upside definitely makes this a worthwhile move.

You know about Pounders - he's a big guy, but he doesn't have great stuff. He had a good season in 2011 as a reliever, but he's far enough down in the low-minors pecking order that losing him is no great loss. Goris hit very well (.350/.387/.511) in the DSL last year, but he was old for the level, and I've never heard him described as a top prospect. He may simply be someone the Royals' scouts want to take a flyer on.

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Sorry to threadjack

Per Jen Langosch, Pirates release Ohlendorf, and Lee rejects arbitration.

https://twitter.com/#!/LangoschMLB/status/144644938708160513

https://twitter.com/#!/LangoschMLB/status/144644901194309632

by biggyv on Dec 8, 2011 12:13 AM EST reply actions

Goris was a four year guy in the DSL, so he either had to be traded or released

The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass

by glass0941 on Dec 8, 2011 12:14 AM EST reply actions

couldn't he have been promoted stateside?

just asking – hit .350 in DSL last year, showed a good glove every year, seemed like a guy who could have been moved up to Charleston

by Brian Cartwright on Dec 9, 2011 1:52 AM EST up reply actions

One positive (for me at least): I’ll no longer confuse Colton Cain and Brooks Pounders. No idea why I did in the first place, but I did.

"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-Roberto

by blackjackfishtaco on Dec 8, 2011 12:17 AM EST reply actions

you're better off than me

I confused Brooks Pounders and Brock Holt.

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.

by WHYG Zane Smith on Dec 8, 2011 7:28 AM EST up reply actions

Brock Pounders sounds awesome.

wasnt he Dirk Diggler’s bud?

by white angus on Dec 8, 2011 8:50 AM EST up reply actions

Good gamble by the Buccos.

by Brakeman8 on Dec 8, 2011 12:17 AM EST reply actions

I didn’t notice whether this was mentioned in the other threads, but BA’s ranking of Navarro the last three years in a good system: 12th, 10th, 12th. It’s a big risk due to his attitude issues, but it could be a steal if they can get him to stay in shape and focus better.

Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!

by WTM on Dec 8, 2011 12:33 AM EST up reply actions

2nd coming of Yuniesky Betancourt???

:-x

by white angus on Dec 8, 2011 8:51 AM EST up reply actions

Or Wilson Betemit, which would be just fine. Except Navarro so far can still play SS somewhat.

Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!

by WTM on Dec 8, 2011 9:15 AM EST up reply actions

Sean

Rodriguez upside?

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 8, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions

he still has upside?

by white angus on Dec 8, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions

Not everyone with upside reaches it.

That’s why it’s called upside, rather than floor.

by Vlad on Dec 8, 2011 7:48 PM EST up reply actions

Agreed

I was saying I think it’s reasonable to believe Navarro can be better than Betemit. I asked it as a question though… for some reason.

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 8, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions

So he is going to be our new Cedeño?

I know nothing about this guy, but when I read “lapses in concentration” it was the first thought that came to mind…

by Chileburger on Dec 8, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions

when I was 23 I had “lapses in concentration” also. But since I wasn’t concentrating, I don’t remember what it was I was supposed to be concentrating on in the first place

"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente

by michaelbro8 on Dec 8, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions

...

by white angus on Dec 8, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions

Good bye Pedro

I think this move spells the end of Pedro Ciriaco’s long tenure as our back up short stop. Now even the slim hope of him clearing waivers and returning in glory out of spring training has been lost.

by SojourningPirate on Dec 8, 2011 12:33 AM EST reply actions

he was released earlier today.

by Brakeman8 on Dec 8, 2011 12:48 AM EST up reply actions

Adcock pitched well in AFL

Maybe the Royals have good scouts in our system.

by taiwania on Dec 8, 2011 12:57 AM EST reply actions

WHAT. THEHELL.

Neal,

If you dont want people to get pissed when you trade players, you shouldn’t draft players with the best name ever.

Ugh. #1poundlighter

by GTrain on Dec 8, 2011 1:12 AM EST reply actions

Either that doesn’t say much for a second round pick or…
Maybe it’s no big deal really.
But a 9.82:1.92 K/BB in 66 A innings isn’t bad.

by CO_Bucs on Dec 8, 2011 2:14 AM EST reply actions

Ya

but he’s already a reliever, as a 20 year old in low A ball.

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 8, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions

i wouldnt be surprised if the Royals

wanted him to start.

by BurgherKing on Dec 9, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions

I like this pickup a lot.

Navarro is a guy who could easily develop into a solid starting shortstop if things go right.

by Vlad on Dec 8, 2011 2:42 AM EST via mobile reply actions

In the area of mental approach to the game

I’m having a little trouble distinguishing between Navarro and Ronny Cedeno

Lino Donoso

by Lino Donoso on Dec 8, 2011 5:25 AM EST reply actions

Navarro has a beard

Ronnie only had a mustache.

Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!

by WTM on Dec 8, 2011 6:41 AM EST up reply actions

Oh, OK. Thanks

Lino Donoso

by Lino Donoso on Dec 8, 2011 7:39 AM EST up reply actions

I'm sure if Navarro really wants a mustache

Ronnie can let him borrow his sharpie

by goodtymes31 on Dec 8, 2011 8:17 AM EST up reply actions

I know some of the national media talked about Navarro as a potential superutility guy when he was traded for Aviles. This seems like a nice little risk for the Pirates.

Also, when was the last time we traded a real prospect for another real prospect?

No jinx no jinx no jinx.

by Suffering Buc on Dec 8, 2011 7:01 AM EST reply actions

we still havent

by white angus on Dec 8, 2011 8:52 AM EST up reply actions

What the hell

All Brooks did was pound the strike zone all year. We will regret this trade someday.

by pineapplepete on Dec 8, 2011 7:31 AM EST reply actions

Any worthwhile trade brings that risk.

Occupy MLB! Down with Seligula!

by WTM on Dec 8, 2011 9:16 AM EST up reply actions

I am kind of bummed too

Brooks was one of the few of the 2009 class holding his own. Tim from piratesprospects reports that he was hitting 93 with his fastball and has “plus” curve and change. I don’t blame the Bucs for trying, just think the flame-out potential is very high with this new guy.

by coreysc on Dec 8, 2011 9:23 AM EST up reply actions

define holding his own

he didnt do poorly, but he was a top pick who pitched out of the pen because he didnt have the juice for the rotation. thats pretty much it in a nutshell.

by white angus on Dec 8, 2011 9:29 AM EST up reply actions

I understand he was pitching out of the bullpen, but I ’m not sure if that was regarded by the organization as a permanent move.

by coreysc on Dec 8, 2011 9:33 AM EST up reply actions

I’m not sure if you mean velocity or stamina but pretty sure it was a roster crunch and mild stamina issue. We only had 5 starting slots available

by Mr. E on Dec 8, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions

yeah, and a 2nd round pick was relieving guys picked after him

not enuff juice, G

by white angus on Dec 8, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions

I guess now Kevin Decker’s got the juice

by Mr. E on Dec 9, 2011 12:30 AM EST up reply actions

coreysc

I saw Pounders pitch twice last season and didn’t see 93, even in a relief role, and didn’t see anything special about the rest of his stuff, for that matter.

This is the kind of move needed in Pgh.: trade some middlin’ prospects to try and improve the big-league club now, while not doing anything to interfere with the long-term process of building primarily from within through the draft and int’l signings.

Let’s see what we get from Navarro and come back to grading this thing in a few years.

パトリック

by patthatt on Dec 8, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions

Thanks Pat

I guess I am a little too attached to that 2009 prep class!

by coreysc on Dec 8, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions

I agree

I saw Pounders several times at WV. He was sitting in the high 80’s and low 90’s. He’s breaking stuff looked solid, but not spectacular.

Plus if he even made a few mistakes, he got the ball crushed. He was still a decent propsect, but he was a reliever in low A ball and already 20 years old. He had more upside than that, but I don’t think it was any better than maybe a #4 starter. I’d trade a “maybe a #4 starter if everything goes well” guy for a guy like Navarro.

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 8, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions

Upgrade

from Ciriaco.

Approve.

by bucdaddy on Dec 8, 2011 9:32 AM EST reply actions

Well,

anything would have been, but approve anyway.

by bucdaddy on Dec 8, 2011 9:33 AM EST up reply actions

bottom line

we traded a 2nd round pick for a bench player ,who might not make the club.

"please buy the team mr. cuban"

by sweetleb on Dec 8, 2011 10:03 AM EST reply actions

Where we picked a player has very little to do with their current value. What happened to Tim Alderson?

by Brakeman8 on Dec 8, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions

Improving

I agree that where they were selected is not their current value. However, Pounders improved last year. It is hard to say that his stock dropped much. One could argue he has had a better minor league career than people like Von Rosenburg.
I would have liked to keep Pounders because I think he will end up a good pitcher, but our system is crowded and a hitter off the bench with power potential is something we need badly.

by SojourningPirate on Dec 8, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions

He improved, but he went to the pen and that appeared to be what he was better suited for. Neal has proven you can find decent middle relievers each off season. Plus we have to get use to having too many potential prospects to keep putting on the 40 man roster each year as we keep drafting well. When we see a move that could help us now, we need to make it and for once this is a player who isn’t over the hill or compltetly unwanted by everyone else in baseball.

by Brakeman8 on Dec 8, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions

Fortunate for us, then, that we drafted a first-round pick in the minor league portion of the Rule 5.

by Vlad on Dec 8, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions

I bet we could get our hands on Jeff Allison if we wanted…

by insane_sanity on Dec 8, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions

does he owe us money?

by white angus on Dec 8, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions

This is a fair risk reward. This is a decent trade.

Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained

by Kosstic518 on Dec 8, 2011 10:37 AM EST reply actions

Pounders was the 53rd pick overall

Previous 53rd picks overall (I haven’t looked in advance, so I’m not sure what I’ll find):
2008: Brewers take Seth Lintz, who at age 21 pitched out of the bullpen in low-A, and didn’t appear in the top 40 or so prospects in John Sickels’s writeup of the Brewer’s thin system.

2007: Reds take Kyle Lotzkar in the sandwich round. Another 21-year-old in low-A. Sickels: “back on the DL. Still has loads of talent if he can stay on the mound.”

2006: Padres take Chad Huffman. Had a cup of coffee with the Yankees in 2010. Not a good cup of coffee, either, one of those nasty-ass cups of coffee you get at the Greyhound station. His minor league stats don’t make me think he really deserves more, though he may have had promise at the beginning. Never seems to have been mentioned on minorleagueball.

2005: A’s take Craig Italiano. Has never made the majors, 4.70 ERA in the minors, never mentioned on minorleagueball.

2004: White Sox take the beautifully named Wes Whisler. Cup of coffee in 2009 — more like an espresso shot.

2003: Marlins take Logan Kensing. Pitched parts of six years in the majors! But not well.

You get the idea, and this is pretty much what I expected. If you wind up trading the guy you picked 53rd for someone who might make your ML roster as a backup, that’s a well above-average result.

(Kevin Jepsen and Chris Narveson are the only recent #53s to be above replacement in the majors according to BB-Ref. The last #53 to make any significant impact? The Mayor, Sean Casey, from 1995.)

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.

by WHYG Zane Smith on Dec 8, 2011 12:30 PM EST reply actions

never mentioned on minorleagueball

FYI, search seems like it only indexes back as far as partway through 2009. There are mentions of Italiano, such as this.

by Vlad on Dec 8, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions

thanks

It did seem odd to me that some of these guys didn’t show up on the search function at all. (Though I think the point still stands that most of these guys aren’t going to amount to much in the majors.)

While I’m correcting myself, BBRef thinks Jepsen was below replacement, though it’s pretty ungenerous with that. Narveson has been a reasonable fifth starter for the past couple years, I guess.

I did something like this for the #50 pick a little while back — it’s really stark how low the hit rate is for draft choices in the 50s. Which is why the CBA is so enraging; it’s going to be very hard to build through the draft if you can’t try to pick up multiple over-slot lottery tickets.

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.

by WHYG Zane Smith on Dec 8, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions