Link Roundup: Will Joel Hanrahan Be Pirates' Closer?
by Charlie Wilmoth on Feb 13, 2011 2:04 PM EST
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-P- Rob Biertempfel says that Joel Hanrahan, and not Evan Meek, is likely to be the Pirates' closer in 2011. That's fine with me - either would be fine from a performance perspective, but Hanrahan will become a free agent earlier (after 2013) and thus will probably be on the trade market earlier. I'd rather the Pirates be marketing a closer than merely a really good middle reliever.
Neal Huntington said last month that he wanted the Pirates to pick a closer by Spring Training, so unless Huntington has changed his mind, it seems like there should be a decision soon.
-P- Speaking of the start of Spring Training, Cesar Valdez, Jose Veras, and Jose Ascanio are the only pitchers or catchers who haven't reported yet.
-P- Here's a profile of new State College Spikes manager Dave Turgeon, who will be trying to learn everyone's name in these next couple of months.
-P- Tracy Ringolsby on Garrett Atkins:
After the struggles of the last two years that led Garrett Atkins to be dumped by Colorado and Baltimore, it is easy to overlook the fact he is only 31 and did drive in 421 runs from 2005-08. The Pirates give him a chance to resurrect his career, which would allow them to move Pedro Alvarez to first base and Garrett Jones to the outfield.
1. Jones is already in the outfield, because Lyle Overbay is the starting first baseman. 2. As far as I can tell, Atkins didn't play one game at third last year. There's practically no chance of him being the Pirates' starting third baseman. Do your homework, man.
-P- Former Pirates minor leaguer Dustin Molleken, who pitched with Altoona last year, has signed with the Rockies.
-P- Ian Snell on his time with the Pirates:
"I'm just trying to basically get back to where I was the first two years with Pittsburgh," he said. "That's when the pitching coach there was there for two years and not changing constantly. I kind of lost focus and, how do you say it, my confidence in a way, in Pittsburgh. I [went] to Seattle and I kind of got it back, and then lost it again. It's been tough. It's the game, you know?"
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I [went] to Seattle and I kind of got it back, and then lost it again.
Hmmm….I missed the part where Ian Snell kind of got it back in Seattle. Must have blinked or something.
I can't envision a scenario...
where Hanrahan isn’t annointed the closer heading into the season. As Charlie points out Hanrahan is closer to free agency so there is no reason to needlessly drive up Meek’s arbitration value when there is a better in-house option already. I love a closer with a double digit K/9.
Agreed.
Also, I prefer Meek when someone is needed for a multiple-inning situation (anywhere from 6th-8th).
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 13, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Hanrahan is our best reliever, period.
Whether he’s our closer or not doesn’t really matter to me, as long as he is our relief pitcher most often in high-leverage spots, whether that be the traditional closer’s role or not. Although, I do agree with Charlie’s trade reasoning as Ned Colletti has proven there are still GM’s out there who put extra weight into the fact that a guy has been closing when making a trade.
Everything that guy just said is bullshit . . .thank you
Hanrahan
I agree that he’s our best reliever.
I also have some worries about him in the closer role. He’s looked a bit shaky to me, and I wondered if he lets the pressure get to him. Either way, we’ll find out this year, it seems.
he did look unhittable as a set up
and quite hittable as a closer last year
by jackiegleason on Feb 13, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
same as dc
It was the same story in Washington. he pitched great as a set up man and then was terrible as a closer, so much so that he lost his confidence and ended up getting traded to the Bucs. Wasn’t as extreme with us last year, but he still seemed to pitch noticeably worse in the closer’s role. I think he may be one of those guys who doesn’t thrive as a closer. I hope they give it to Meek.
I disagree
He had all of 14 saves in Washington.
And the only year he served as the primary closer, he was hurt part of the year.
That hardly seems like a fair chance.
14 saves
in 23 opportunities
with the bucs, 6 saves in 10 opportunities.
I never saw him pitch in wsh, and all numbers are small sample, but i didnt like what i saw in limited opportunities in pitt
nobody is perfect
except brad lidge, of course
by white angus on Feb 13, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
Of course ...
in Washington, his numbers were hurt by the fact that he was pitching injured.
And in Pittsburgh, his numbers were hurt by the fact that he was playing in front of the worst defensive team in baseball.
I’d have to go screen his performances by game. But I don’t remember too many games where I thought he alone just sucked.
A Brad Lidge like blow-up.
i remember him sucking
but everyone’s going to suck once in a while. The sample is not large enough. But I remember thinking that he may have issues closing last season.
And in Pittsburgh, his numbers were hurt by the fact that he was playing in front of the worst defensive team in baseball.
Well, then they should be hurt regardless of whether he is closing or setting up. He has a 3.08 ERA outside the 9th inning last year, and 4.68 in the 9th. K/BB ratio is worse by over 1 in the 9th. Naturally, being a reliever, these are 25 IP in the 9th, and 44 IP in non-9th, so small samples. Also a 400+ BABIP in the 9th. (He had an insane BABIP in WSH too). 2011 should tell us more.
We’ll find out this season. The good thing is, no one doubts his stuff. So we can eliminate that as a potential cause of trouble.
by BurgherKing on Feb 14, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
You’re talking about some tiny-ass sample sizes here. I wouldn’t want to go drawing too many conclusions from them – random variance is a much more likely explanation.
I m not drawing any conclusions
simply putting the data out there.
I also noted earlier that I felt Hanrahan looked shakier closing than otherwise. It’s just a note.
by BurgherKing on Feb 14, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
last year was my first really
but it was a noticable difference after Dotel was traded.
…because we already have control over him for the next few years?
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
ARE YOU F#$%ING KIDDING ME!!!! ADAMS!!! JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST YOU HAD 24 SQUARE FEET AND YOU MISSED IT ALL!! - OlenWhitaker
Went away to Leafland for a day. It was nice, even though they lost. And I became a Certified Grabbo Lover.
“Hey, we have you under contract, but let’s obligate ourselves to pay you millions more.”
I mean, I know what you’re trying to say (like it hadn’t been said a million times), but I’ve never seen it been said so idiotically. Well, I guess SALE THE TEAM takes the cake.
Thank you Ned Colletti.
by ryebr3ad on Feb 13, 2011 6:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If they could get for Hanrahan what they got for Dotel,
that would be an underwhelming return.
And that’s exciting. If Hanrahan is moved after a great season or first half, he’ll get an impressive return. We’d be talking top-100 prospect plus-plus, I’m assuming.
That’s unlikely. His BABIP was an absurd .431 that year with the Nats. That will never happen to him again, probably nothing even close to it. He’s a legitimate 10 K/9 guy, and there’s no reason to expect him not to stay effective.
by Suffering Buc on Feb 13, 2011 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
off topic - cbf making a fanshot
I went to the Perth Heat v Adelaide Bite game on Saturday.
Latimore had quite a bit of bad luck playing LF for Adelaide. Although he spent the day looking into the setting sun, he only had 1 muffed FB.
At the plate he looked ok, maybe a bit swing happy, but never managed to hit it where they aint. He also fouled one off his foot that reached 3B and he was the only one who complained (drawing the ire of the home crowd and leading to the guy on the PA to play the “there’s no crying in baseball” clip). After the manager coming up to support his guy the umpires sent him on his way back to the dugout. He got on base once by the 2nd baseman’s error and was stranded there.
Not a bad game – I got to see a leadoff HR then they batted through the lineup and that player came up with loaded bags and hit another one – GS and the stadium when nuts. 8 runs in one dig will go quite a ways to ensuring a win. Heat won 9-2.
by BlindSquirrel on Feb 13, 2011 7:16 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Looks like you went to the wrong game, eh?
Apparently, Latimore has been tearing it up in the Series so far.
Other than that, curse you for getting to see baseball in February. ;-)
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 14, 2011 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
he burst out of the gates early on in the series, but one of his teammates ended up with the triple crown.
Latimore’s stats for the season: .314/.439/.548 for a .923 OPS.
And I’m playing a bit of baseball this weekend as well, probably at 3B.
u jelly?
by BlindSquirrel on Feb 14, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
I like that .439 OBP...
I hope that was something he worked on and not a result of being pitched around.
Partly that
And partly a result of the Australian League not being very advanced, I would think.
I still like Q22 as a prospect more than most, but those numbers don’t really mean much.
My positions (in order of amt of games played) starting from Little League thru Pony/Colt (Seniors, whatever you wanna call it )
By Year:
2B / C
C / 3B
C / 3B / CF
C / 3B / 2B / CF / LF
C / 3B / 1B / RF
C /3B / 1B / 2B / LF
P / LF / RF
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 14, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
I played my first season in LF/RF.
It sucks out there – I don’t have the legs to be running all the time.
by BlindSquirrel on Feb 15, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see why he wouldn't be
Hanrahan is better suited for the closer role. I like Meek in the set-up role just fine and that’s probably the way they’ll go. Although if Hanny struggles a bit then I’m sure Meek would get a shot.
Letang Clan - ain't nothin to puck with
We don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks.
Hanrahan has the best stuff
but as great as he looked in set up he was below average as closer after Dotel was traded.
I dont know much about him at Washington but that ERA was high.
Some guys have issues with 9th inning pressure but hopefully he has great year.
by jackiegleason on Feb 13, 2011 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I know. Closer is a role that you need experience to excel at, not just great stuff. Neither of the two have a whole lot on their resumes, they have 24 career saves combined.
Letang Clan - ain't nothin to puck with
We don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks.
Closer is a role that you need experience to excel at, not just great stuff.
If so, then where do closers come from? After all, none have any experience at the role before they first become closers, right?
Yeah,
the ol’ Catch-22.
(or izzat Pitch-and-Catch-22?)
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 14, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
Closers come from being crazy
(see Wilson, Brian or Mesa, Jose)
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." Martin Luther King Jr.
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 14, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
you forgot to mention
Rick “Wild Thing” Vaughn
Mitch Williams...
The REAL “Wild Thing.”
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 14, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
His BABIP aggainst during his time as a closer in Washington was like .420.
I think hat had more to do with his strugles than confidence.
Everything that guy just said is bullshit . . .thank you
And remember ...
he was injured. Hence his “stuff” wasn’t what it is today.
i guess we expect all our players to be perfect, day in-day out... right fellas?
hanrahan struggles mightily before become a pirate and now look at him.
give the boy some props and lets see him close some games, son.
Same place / guy as
melikie yung tang
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 14, 2011 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
Regarding Snell
I have been fortunate enough to sit in on a few of Ray Tanner’s press conferences (SC baseball coach) and I think the best baseball quote I have ever heard came out of his mouth one day:
“This game will kick you down, and will kick you while your down. It is rough. It really will beat you up. But you have to get back up.”
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Ray Tanner!
That guy is a class act and a very good baseball coach.
I'm a huge fan
Wonderful person, never let the success get to his head. Anyway, I’m sure I misquoted him. I’ll find the exact quote and get it right here soon
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
My favorite quote from a baseball coach has to be from West Virginia State's Cal Bailey
The most over-rated thing in life is sex, the most under-rated a big shit.
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." Martin Luther King Jr.
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 14, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Searage
The pitching coach was on The Fan Morning Show about 30 minutes ago. He said that he expects a decision to be announced on who the closer will be by the end of this week. My guess is that they have annointed Hannrahan but want to make sure everyone is healthy and communicated to appropriately before announcing it.
Frankly, the deadline to announce the closer is artificial and meaningless; I’m not sure why they wouldn’t wait until a couple of weeks into Grapefruit League play to make a decision but in the grand scheme of things it likely matters not.
Good day.
I don't get it.
Why the rush? Why should anybody on a 57-win team be annointed anything before spring training starts? (With the exception of Cutch).
And the CLOSER of all things? On a 57-win team?
because this isnt little league
its good to let the players know what their role is before they get going. its the way its been done for years. can things change during ST? sure.
I guess I would look at it another way
The Pirates have been watching Hanrahan and Meek perform in regular season games for a couple seasons now, they’re very familiar with each guy’s strengths and weaknesses. Why should a few spring training innings against uneven competition have a big effect on their decision either way?
by maguro on Feb 14, 2011 9:10 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Because as someone above pointed out
Hanrahan has looked a little shaky in the role.
Now I agree he seems best equipped for the role, what with the heat he throws and all. But while I agree ST games don’t mean a whole hell of a lot, if he’s a disaster all spring, what do you then? You might have to give the job to someone else, and then everyone looks foolish for having declared Hanrahan the closer before anyone threw a pitch. Well … not everyone. The FO won’t say, “Geez, sure looks like we were wrong about Joel, maybe we shouldn’t make declarations like that.”
Sort of like, if you’re a member of the AP poll board and you all vote Duke the best basketball team in the preseason poll, and then Duke comes out and loses its first three games and goes on to have a .500 season, does the poll board announce: “You know, we made Duke No. 1 and Duke was only mediocre. Looks like we don’t know anything about basketball.” No, it’s never that. It’s “Duke failed to live up to expectations.” But Duke didn’t ask anyone to name it No.1, so whose fault is it?
If you declare a guy the closer and it turns out he can’t do the job, and maybe shouldn’t have been expected to, whose fault is that?
It will fall on Hanrahan, and maybe have some effect on his mental makeup to know he was handed the job and lost it, than to simply be in a position where he was one of a few people competing for the job and had a bad month …
I’m just rambling here, but I hope I’m making a little sense, too.
Well, I am not saying that Hanrahan should be the guy. He may not be the right choice. I’m just saying that the Pirates should base the decision on each guy’s body of work over the past few years and not on what happens in a few meaningless spring training games.
Well,
you also effectively squelch incentive for Meek or someone else to try to take the job away. What you tell them is it doesn’t matter how good they are in camp.
Now I agree with you that if you’re Cutch, you really shouldn’t have to fight for your job in ST (though I don’t seen how legitimate competition can possibly hurt), but really, for the bullpen of a 57-win team, why should ANY role be decided right now? What’s Hanrahan’s “body of work” as a closer? It’s not especially good, and you can say, well, we was hurt one year, and it’s a small sample size for the other, but really: Aren’t those reasons why the job should be open?
"I’m just rambling here..."
Amigo -
1) Deep breath.
2) Coffee, or liquor.
3) Take it easy.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 14, 2011 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
Unfortunately,
drinking this would rule out #3.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Feb 14, 2011 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
Bronson Arroyo
In a recent SportingNews article about the division valuated the entire division team by team an in closing said the Pirates would be the Pirates. Kinda viewed that as a negative, sure hope we bomb him this season.
i put more stock
in the nearest brick wall’s opinion and analysis about the upcoming season more than Arroyo’s.
Bucdaddy you are making sense
Hanrahans got great strikeout numbers. He also had a 5.64 ERA against righties. Meek was more consistant and the league had a .185 average against him. The only edge I see is Meek is just downright competitive. If anyone has ever seen him pitch in a clutch situation he just thrives in it. I am NOT knocking Hanrahan, his numbers last year were amazing but, relief pitchers have a strange way of changing for the better or worse from season to season. Just look at Matt Capps.
by primetime99 on Feb 14, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
he's just mad the Pirates dumped him
and never got over it even though he was better off without them.
the jilted lover scenario
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