Beginning to Get Nernous About ST Results

by zogger on Mar 17, 2011 6:54 PM EDT

OK it is still Spring Traing but is anyone else not seeing the performance that you would like/expect to see? Up until now the pitchers are usually ahead of the hitters but it seems that our pitchers are not getting people out. Too many SP seem to give up too many runs. Today Ohlendorf got lit up, yesterday Maholm did not do well.

While only just recently the starting position players began each game and some seem to be hitting (Tabata, McCutchen, Overbay), they don't seem to scoring many runs.

Overall I still think we will win 70 games this year but I am not getting a warm and fuzzey feeling seeing the ST results.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.

Tweet Comment 53 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

if the pitchers keep it up

i’ll take the under on Vegas’ 67.5 line

by BurgherKing on Mar 17, 2011 7:00 PM EDT reply actions

Can’t say that I’m worried just yet. With it being ST, its hard to say if what we are seeing right now out of the pitchers is representative of what we will see once the season starts. They may be focusing on and trying to iron out certain things and making pitches that they may not be making when it counts. Guys could be working on specific pitches, throwing inside/outside, etc. They might be getting hit around because of it. This may or may not be the case, just speculation on my part at this point.

The last week of ST should be more telling IMO as the pitchers will be gearing up for actual games that count. Hopefully they have everything ironed out and ready to go by April. I by then things don’t look a bit better, I will start worrying.

by pskell02 on Mar 17, 2011 7:29 PM EDT reply actions

If that were true…most pitchers would have lousy numbers…across the board…not just with the Pirates.

by Thunder on Mar 17, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, SOME have to have good numbers...

…there is a winner to each game, as well as a loser.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Mar 17, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions

There are winners and losers every game...

that’s true…if we were only looking at W-L. It’s some of the other numbers that are troubling…like over half of the batters Ohlendorf has faced have reached base.

If all of the pitchers are working on specific pitches…and not worrying about results…there’d be one hell of a lot of 16-14 games in the spring.

by Thunder on Mar 18, 2011 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions

perhaps

Ohlendorf wants to work on pitching from the stretch….

just sayin’…

by insane_sanity on Mar 18, 2011 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions

Some pitchers are better than others. Some guys are trying to make a roster so they are focused on ST results. Some guys approach ST differently. Guys are more likely to have a bad day in ST. Some might have trouble having focus in ST. Every one is different and any thing can happen on any given day. I’ll be worried if it’s like this a week before the season starts.

Although, I see your point, it would be much more comforting if the results were better.

by Seven_Patch on Mar 18, 2011 9:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

I refuse to invest anything in spring training results. I’m pretty sure the Pirates were a top three team in ST two years ago, and look where that got them.

They’re not going to be good this year, but I don’t see ST being any indicator of that.

by Suffering Buc on Mar 17, 2011 7:44 PM EDT reply actions

Lol

Agreed.

by Woo! on Mar 17, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah

Remember when Craig Monroe hit a bunch of homers in ST, then went on to have a huge year…oh wait, never mind.

by maguro on Mar 17, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah.

I predicted that Monroe would hit 75 HR, but Pittsburgh fans would complain he wasn’t “clutch” enough.

by IAPiratesFan on Mar 18, 2011 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions

exactly right

if you know what’s good for you, you wont invest much money in real results either…

by BurgherKing on Mar 17, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Exactly. I bet the Pirates have a pretty respectable first month where they’re around .500 — it doesn’t mean they’ll finish that way. Baseball lends itself to anomalies, but they’re almost always on a shelf life.

by Suffering Buc on Mar 17, 2011 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Based on Pitching Performance

Right now Brian Burres is our ace. This just goes to prove that spring training games mean nothing. I would not look into it much, many pitchers are just looking to warm up and could care less about throwing meatballs across the middle o’ the plate. Their main concern is to avoid injury. It should stay that way. I have a bad feeling about the pitching though and think the buccos will have one of the worst staffs again in 2011. Despite this I will say we win 68 – 73 games this year.

by buccomania on Mar 17, 2011 7:47 PM EDT reply actions

Zogger -

DON’T BE NERNOUS. NOTHING GOOD EVER CAME FROM BEING NERNOUS.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Mar 17, 2011 8:12 PM EDT reply actions

I Hate No Edit Feature

by zogger on Mar 18, 2011 7:28 AM EDT up reply actions

Actually,

you can go back and edit it. Look for the icon somewhere near the headline.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Mar 18, 2011 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions

Terrible SP rotation

Pirates gonna get rocked. Really need the young pitches in the minors to pan out.

by dulciusXasperis on Mar 17, 2011 9:36 PM EDT reply actions

I was going to ask almost the same question....

I was more focused on on our batters striking out like “Mr. Gray” from the Grecian formula commercials – “oh, there’s no play for Mr. Gray!” We may be leading the ST in KOs.

Also (purely anecdotally), it doesn’t seem like our SPs are going as long as other team SPs.

There were also two ST games where, if Gametracker was correct, the first four opposing batters got hit on the first pitch thrown to them (don’t recall pitchers/games). I would think that goes to the “working on things” that you wouldn’t do once the season starts.

"Who is John Galt?"

by Trogluddite on Mar 17, 2011 10:02 PM EDT reply actions

gametracker is wrong

they dont update it… all hits or non-strikeout/non-walk plays happen on the first pitch, as a result…

by BurgherKing on Mar 17, 2011 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions

thanks

I thought maybe they were throwing 1st pitch fastballs just because….

"Who is John Galt?"

by Trogluddite on Mar 17, 2011 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Mr. Gray

That’s excellent. A contender for my fantasy team name this year.

by azibuck on Mar 18, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions

I know all about not paying attention to ST results.......

but in the Pirates case it’s more like whistling past a graveyard.

People It is going to be really ugly.

Last year may look like a pennant run.

by oldfrothingslosh on Mar 17, 2011 10:54 PM EDT reply actions

Doubt that because:

No Aki…
No 2010 Andy LaRoche…
No Millege in RF…
No GFJ at first throwing the ball into CF…

I mean yea, the pitching will mostly suck but isn’t that basically a constant? Plus you have Cutch, Tabata, Pedro, and Walker together the whole season.
This year >>>>>>>>>> Last Year

"So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded?! Yea. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us an you're retarded. Thats 25 percent." Southpark; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce
RIP Corey Keller, James Taylor, M. Jay Darby, Derek Davis.

by gorillakilla34 on Mar 18, 2011 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Yes…and we had Cutch, Tabata, Pedro and Walker together from the middle of June through the end of the season. And Aki and LaRoche were out of the lineup after that. And they went 34-64…which is a 56-106 pace.

So…Overbay and Diaz are going to lead us to 10-15 more wins?? That’s wishful thinking.

by Thunder on Mar 18, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't necessarily think they will win 15 more games.

But, the biggest improvement from the team will have to come from those who were already on the team last year.

If Pedro plays like he did last year year, and Cutch plays like he did the second half of last year, and Ohlie and Morton and Jones and everybody plays just like they played last year, then we’re in for only an extremely minor improvement in the record.

by MarkInDallas on Mar 18, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions

agree that it's not going to be a banner year

but what makes you think we’ll be substantially worse than last year, slosh?

by Garrett122 on Mar 18, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions

Spring training numbers don't worry me much, if at all.

I am, however, becoming concerned about the construction of the roster for the upcoming season. We could easily end up suffering some serious self-inflicted wounds if things progress the way they look like they might.

by Vlad on Mar 18, 2011 10:56 AM EDT reply actions

Beertemple

Makes an early prediction on the bench makeup, factoring in JJ as either the backup or even 3rd C:

If I was pressed today to predict the bench, I’d say: Garrett Jones, Pedro Ciriaco, Jaramillo, Bowker and Andy Marte. It’s a close call between Marte and Garrett Atkins.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Mar 18, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions

Ciriaco, Jaramillo, and Atkins is pretty much the worst-case plausible scenario I can come up with.

by Vlad on Mar 18, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions

Bleak.

I think it’s pretty much a given at this point that Ciriaco is going north. JJ is either 3rd or 2nd C, depending on Doumit as noted in the article (and as pointed out elsewhere, carrying 3 C is stoopit). I also, as you do, hope Marte makes it over Atkins – perhaps the “extra” time Hurdle put in with him will convince him that he’s not who we need.

I am encouraged by his thought that Bowker makes it, though.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Mar 18, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions

I also, as you do, hope Marte makes it over Atkins

I don’t care so much about Marte, though it seems fairly obvious that he’s a better choice than Atkins. I’m more dismayed that Rodriguez isn’t on that provisional roster somewhere.

by Vlad on Mar 18, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions

yeah

i was hoping they’d release Atkins, stash Marte in 3A for a bit, and go with Rodriguez. Or stash Ciriaco in 3A, and go with Rodriguez…

by BurgherKing on Mar 18, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Again...

where’s Bowker’s playing time coming from?? 100 PH appearances and no starts?? You won’t be resting Overpay and Jones vs RHP…and Bowker can’t hit LHP.

by Thunder on Mar 18, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions

I doubt Overbay and Jones will be healthy for every day of the upcoming season, and if Jones gets off to a poor start, they could easily decide to go in another direction.

by Vlad on Mar 18, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions

I think if they think Jones might tank, that’s the only reason they would bring Bowker north. But that just might be the case.

by MarkInDallas on Mar 18, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions

you may be on to something on this one

by white angus on Mar 18, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Garrett Atkins...

Remember when Bob Smizik said he’d be a better option at 1B than Jeff Clement when Atkins signed with the O’s?

by IAPiratesFan on Mar 18, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions

no

I don’t actually.

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Any statement beginning with the words 'In truth' is almost always a lie." Mordred Deschain
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Mar 18, 2011 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Yep

Here it is, if you can stand to read Smizik.

I tried to get through to him that it would be better to see what LaRoche, Alvarez, Clement and Jones could do at the corner IF spots rather than signing a 30 year old veteran who had been on the decline and would not help the team long term, unlike the other four guys mentioned. He replied:

The Pirates fan base is amazing: One half is angry the team won’t spend any money. The other half is fearful it will.

Yep and I bet the Orioles and their fans loved spending $4 million for 30 hits and only 1 HR over 44 games and 152 PAs.

by IAPiratesFan on Mar 19, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions

And even though Clement ended up with -0.2 wins above replacement in 2010, Atkins weighed in with an eye-popping -1.1 WAR.

by Adam Reynolds on Mar 19, 2011 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions

If you're that worried

How about considering we’ve already won more ST games this year than last?

by ATribeCalledGreg on Mar 18, 2011 11:07 AM EDT reply actions

truly time to panic

we’ve got as many wins as those perennial also-rans the yankees and rays. i wonder when they will begin their respective fire sales?

by johnnycuff on Mar 18, 2011 11:27 AM EDT reply actions

I'm not concerned about the record.

But I am concerned about some of the play. I’ve got a real sinking feeling.

by MarkInDallas on Mar 18, 2011 1:35 PM EDT reply actions

the defense by the regulars have been a positive. some of the pitching have been decent, but that can change either way in April

by white angus on Mar 18, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions

I am really worried about Pedro’s 16/1 SO/BB…….

by taiwania on Mar 18, 2011 11:43 PM EDT reply actions

I'm not actually not too worried about that.

I think they are probably trying to cut down on his Ks by being more aggressive early in the count. I don’t think he’s suddenly lost his eye for the strike zone. It will be different in games that count.

by MarkInDallas on Mar 19, 2011 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions

The only worries

the shear amount of strike outs for this team, the starters like Correia who had terrible 2nd half numbers at Petco and now getting nobody out, Olly getting killed daily and Maholm’s stuff appears where it left off last year.

The good is Charlie Morton looks improved and Cutch looks locked in. I liked that they stretched Resop out a little this week. If Morton is indeed back and Mcdonald gets healthy and they give Resop atleast a chance, there could be 3 very hard throwing righties with some level of previous success in the rotation.

by jackiegleason on Mar 19, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Correia's line today

5.0 IP, 7 H, 2 ER, 4 K, 1 BB, 7 GO, 3 FO

and 2 for 2 w/ 2 RBI.

Encouraging, no?

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Mar 19, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Didn't see the game

But did follow it on mlb.com. Looks like Correia got into some trouble in the first but induce a DP to Walker. Also ran into some trouble in the 5th. Can anyone confirm that there were hard hit balls and/or poor defensive play to get him into that mess?

Also, if Bowker doesn’t get a bench spot at this point, I would be terribly disappointed. He crushes fastballs, specifically RH fastballs. He can man 4 positions adequately and according to Langosh, can play CF in an emergency situation. I don’t see a reason to let hitter with his power/potential go. While he may be below average defensively, he is versatile enough to be able to play a few games a week while giving guys at the 4 corners a rest.

by pskell02 on Mar 19, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions