Barry Zito a Possibility?
by omar moreno on Mar 2, 2011 8:08 PM EST
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Hey guys, I saw on ESPN today that the Giants are strongly considering buying out the absurd contract of Barry Zito. I was thinkin to myself that that'd be silly, but Buster Olney was saying that he thinks they will and that now is the best time to do so.
Is there any chance the Pirates make an attempt to sign him?
I still like Zito and would love to see him here. He's a better 5th option than all our current guys and is probably better than guys higher in our rotation than that as well. I think he'd come fairly cheap. He did struggle in the second half last season, but cmon it wouldn't hurt.
So happy Spring Training has rolled around! Couldn't have come soon enough! Lets go Bucs!
ps- Love ya Angus
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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Barry Zito?
No thanks. I am very optimistic thats the pirates luck with pitchers is gunna change and Owens, Wilson, Morris, are all going to become real good MLB starters. No need to bring in a sloppy veteran to block them. If morris and owens start off on fire in AAA were gunna have to make room already the way the roatation is set.
age of last winning season: 5
Good call
I guess I dont want people to think im all for this. I think it’d be an unnecessary move but I think it’s in the realm of possiblility so I wanted some opinions.
twitter.com/iandavidjackson
by omar moreno on Mar 2, 2011 8:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah might as well let Morton, Lincoln and Olsen fight to the death
The marginal value (if any at all) of Zito over the victor wouldn’t be worth the trouble.
hope
I think Morton and Lincoln showed enough hope at the end of last year after working with Searage that the Pirates are’nt even considering adding another starter at this point. I really believe Morton and Lincoln are ready to take some big steps (I believe managements think so as well). Only problem is no matter how good both pitch in ST barring any injury only one will get a spot in the rotation….
Maholm will be gone soon ...
particularly if he starts well.
if he's dirt cheap, yeah sure
otherwise no thanks. wouldnt be surprised to see the yankees go hard after him if they cant get Liriano.
I'd be surprised
He hasn’t exactly been a great signing by the Giants.
The Yanks would want the Giants to assume nearly all the contract.
Also, I really doubt he’d do that well in the AL East.
only if we sign mark mulder too
and trade for tim hudson!
by nickp593 on Mar 2, 2011 10:27 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Tim Hudson
and his 2.84 ERA along with only 189 hits in 229 innings is slightly above average?
How can anyone speak well of a Pirate pitcher when obvious superior talents are el crapped on?
by jackiegleason on Mar 3, 2011 8:41 AM EST up reply actions
Hudson
His stats wont be quite as good with the Bucs, thanks to the defense, but yeah, I’ll take him over everybody in the Pirates rotation!
He is good
but that ERA is a little misleading. FIP of 4.09 leads me to think he was a bit lucky. xFIP likes him a bit better, bust still over a run worse then his ERA. To be fair, over his career, he is about .4 runs better then his DIPS, but I still think he was lucky last year. Plus, a pitcher with a +60% GB% would experience some serious headaches with our D.
by Wizard of Woz on Mar 3, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
He's been around the block a few times...
so he has a large enough sample size from which we draw some conclusions from. His sinker is a plus pitch so I don’t think it’s unreasonable for him to consistently beat league average LOB % and maintain low BABIP’s when playing in front of a decent defense and when healthy. In over 2200 innings he strands 74.2% of his runners and he rolls GB’s at a 60%; unfortunately he probably doesn’t get enough credit for that under FIP or xFIP. FWIW his SIERA is 3.7 which is a bit better than his 4.09 FIP and tiny bit better than his 3.87 xFIP. All in all this was a long way of saying that I agree with you. He’s pretty good but I wouldn’t be expecting a 2.84 ERA every year but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him get back to the 3.3-3.5 range either. Last year was his first full season since surgery IIRC.
Where do you get SIERA at?
I always forget about it, and then don’t look for it. IIRC, its not on baseball-ref. Also, do you know who came up with it and how it works? I have been curious, and read some stuff on BBTF (I think), but I just don’t remember.
by Wizard of Woz on Mar 3, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Hudson’s still a top of the rotation guy for me. Zito, not so much.
by Adam Reynolds on Mar 3, 2011 2:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I’d also use Zito as a reliever and start Olsen, which tells you my opinion of Zito now…
by Adam Reynolds on Mar 2, 2011 10:52 PM EST via mobile reply actions
A feeling I share
That has to be the worst contract of the past decade.
Olsen over Zito on even terms?
is that a joke or does stats mean nothing any longer?
by jackiegleason on Mar 3, 2011 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
Stats do mean something ...
but his performance is below average at $19 million per year.
agreed but the conversation is SF eating a contract
He’s a better pitcher than probably everyone the pirates have now.
Mcdonald may be better but that is yet to be seen but he’s better than Maholm salaries equal and 100X better than Olsen
by jackiegleason on Mar 3, 2011 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/barry-zitos-contract-revisited/
But the nominal gain he’d be to the starting pitching would be at the expense of seeing whether a younger guy can actually play.
I see no role for him.
Yep, the young guys need to start when the numbers are really good
which makes Chris Resop’s middle relief assignment so puzzling.
But all things equal, Zito is an upgrade for this current staff.
He would never ever come here so it is a mute point but I laughed out loud reading the comments on Olsen being preferred straight up and that Tim Hudson is slightly above average.
You all have a great day
by jackiegleason on Mar 3, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
mute point
Dude, the mute is not the issue here, also, dude, mute is not the preferred nomenclature. Speech Impaired.
Or did you mean something else with that?
by Wizard of Woz on Mar 3, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
WizardofWoz
I think he meant “moot point.” Jackie seems to be impaired in more than a few of his posts.
I figured that
Just an opportunity for a Lebowski reference.
by Wizard of Woz on Mar 3, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
I see that mistake frequently, it used to bother me but I gave up trying to correct people on blogs a while ago. They’re/there/their still bugs the hell out of me though.
while the pirates keep loosing out their, we keep getting our just desserts.
The loosing/losing one annoys me because it doesn’t crop up that often and so I always have to do a double take when it’s incorrect.
by BlindSquirrel on Mar 3, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
dude, im with ya on that one...
and also when a woman refers to herself as a “women”… i know it doesnt happen here, but godammit that pisses me off… dont tell me that shit, go tell MoPo.
resop never EVER started in baseball until last season in AAA.
even in japan, he was a reliever… maybe thats why the FO still sees him as a reliever, because other than the Braves, everyone else saw him as a pen guy
A 430 SAT in english tells the story of moot point
Yes, he started 1 season and it happened to be not only his first good season but he was great as a starter.
I also feel the braves are the best at evaluating and developing pitching as an organization and they felt he’s best as a starter and the results appear to make the case that the braves were right.
I guess it’s that case of leading a horse to water, you can drink it in front of him to show the best use of the water but if a horse isn’t smart enough to realize what was given and shown to him, he will probably waste the water to take a whiz in while dehydrating to death.
by jackiegleason on Mar 3, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
and the braves released him after one start in the majors...
youre right!!!! they ARE the best at evaluating talent
1 start?
It was not a start and he was released because of an out clause in his contract.
Atlanta’s rotation is set and strong.
W A, I’m mystified you think that Atlanta’s pitching evaluation and development is no better than Pittsburghs.
We got Neifi off them yet they continue to never run out of very good pitching.
If a hitting guru changes a righty into a lefty because he saw more potential as a lefty and he then puts up a 30 HR .300 year, what you are saying is if you acquired him, you would make him bat righty again? Because he only hit lefty 1 year?
Resop put Cy Young type numbers at AAA abd it just happened to be his first year starting?
That argument of yours is hollow at best in my humble opinion.
by jackiegleason on Mar 4, 2011 7:28 AM EST up reply actions
lol @ cy young numbers
Morton has dominated in AAA during 2 separate runs, for petes sake.
you mention an out clause for Resop in atlanta: he pitched one game and got hit hard… did resop opt out or did atlanta say “fukit!!!”?
comparing a team to another is never an exact science. a big part of atlanta’s current rotation came via free agency or trade. hanson is a great find, i’ll give you that. but you really cant compare talent evaluation on young players in your system when it truly is a crap shoot.
i like Resop. he looked good in the pen last year. whats the harm in keeping him there? just because YOU think he should start??? i’m pretty sure the guys that are getting paid to make those decisions know a little more than schmucks like us.
dont see your point
Morton has dominated in AAA during 2 separate runs, for petes sake.
That’s why he’s getting a shot at the starting rotation. Why isnt Resop getting the same shot?
you mention an out clause for Resop in atlanta: he pitched one game and got hit hard… did resop opt out or did atlanta say "fukit!!!"?
if you want to use a 1 game sample, well, to each his own. It doesnt mean anything, though. He also got injured after that which prompted the move. Atlanta was in the middle of a pennant race, with a loaded rotation, and couldn’t carry risks. We got a huge break there by virtue of being the worst team- ultimately, its important to make it count (and if the FO has spent time ascertaining that Resop wont be a quality starter, I m fine with that, but i dont get the sense that is true)
you really cant compare talent evaluation on young players in your system when it truly is a crap shoot.
Maybe the Braves are better at something? Mike Minor was a great find, a pick that was pretty much panned, but the Braves saw something they could fix, fixed it, and he is doing good. Ditto Jason Heyward. Ditto Tommy Hanson. And no one needs reminding about Teheran and Delgado…
he looked good in the pen last year. whats the harm in keeping him there?
A league average starter is likely to be significantly more valuable than a reliever. If they’ve spent time assessing that Resop isn’t going to be better than anything we have, tha’s fine. I don’t think they have though, instead opting to see what we can drag out of Charlie Morton/Scott Olsen/Jeff karstens.
but you cant say that resop deserves a shot to start over the mortons/olsens/lincolns
a decade of being a reliever then starting for half a season in AAA doesnt make him the next coming of dennis eckersley.
and one more thing...
pittsburgh’s pitching evaluation since NH took over:
ohlendorf, mcdonald, locke, morris, wilson, zvr, taillon, allie, heredia, lopez, cain…
should i keep going???
just sayin.
Never said he should be in rotation
That he is not even given an opportunity is rather negligent in my opinion.
eveland,karstans,gallagher,buress,penn,olsen,correia,having the worst ERA in baseball along with existing guys deteriorating?
Quite a hollow opinion in my humble opinion.
Do stats count here?
by jackiegleason on Mar 4, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
yeah I know
just my opinions as the numbers suggest.
Your naming guys who never ever threw a minor league pitch as an argument that Pittsburgh is better at judging and developing pitching is amusing.
by jackiegleason on Mar 4, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
last point on the subject, with my parable of the hitting guru changing a guy from righty to lefty and he has a career year. you never contested the argument even though it is a comparable instance of Resop as a starter for 1 year.
So you believe he should stay righty even though the best in the biz had him hit lefty and he had a career year? Just because he only hit lefty 1 year? And that other teams before hit him righty?
You do realize how ridiculous that sounds?
by jackiegleason on Mar 4, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
Well, yeah,
most pitchers WOULD be. But as a pitcher pitcher, Zito is average. He can be quite valuable to a team that has an above-average 1-4 and only needs the No. 5 to guy not to be a pennant-sucking black hole. A team like … the Giants.
Now you say “There are plenty of guys out there who can be average for a lot less than $19 million,” and I would ask you: If there are SO MANY of these guys, then why do SO MANY teams have No. 5 starters who suck the life out of them every year?
Is Zito’s actual pitching worth $19 million? No. Is Zito worthless? Oh, HELL no.
If he gets bought-out, I assume he’ll have better options than the Pirates. With all that buyout money in his pocket, I doubt he would jump at the first team to offer him a roster spot. The Yanks, Cards, and I’m sure a few others with holes in their rotation would be interested in him on the right terms (eg, incentive-laden deal).
Patthatt
I prefer Omar
twitter.com/iandavidjackson
by omar moreno on Mar 3, 2011 11:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You can bet we won't be leaving him off of our playoff roster this year.
So we have that going for us
by Wizard of Woz on Mar 3, 2011 11:31 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
He’s got the money, I doubt he leaves the West Coast. I’d expect him on the Dodgers or something soon.
I agree
Oak then SF, he will stay out west if available.
Anybody going to Flor soon from here?
If anyone does, watching the draft picks like Tallion should be interesting, hopefully report here on how he looks if he pitches in the intra squad games.
thanks
by jackiegleason on Mar 3, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
The scary thing ...
is that if DL were still in charge, he’d be “in” on him.
I can just see the press conference announcing the trade.
“I have now brought a Cy Young caliber pitcher to Pittsburgh.”
is that if DL were still in charge, he’dbe "in" on himhave taken on Zito’s full contract in a trade for A-Mac and Luis Heredia.
Fixed that for ya!
Well ...
I assumed he would have taken on the full contract.
The Matt Morris case showed how generous he was in that regard.
Of course, he could have traded Cutch for him. However, Heredia would not have been in the plans. He never would have squandered the money NH does on international players.
Instead, he would have found a well-deserving vet like Nick Johnson and given him $7 million.
i know haha
people are goin off. i just wanted to put up a fanpost and didnt know wat to post about so i just threw Zitos name up there.. i wouldnt approve of a Zito signing and apparently not many people would!
twitter.com/iandavidjackson
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