Trade Jones and Keep Bowker?

by zogger on Mar 24, 2011 7:53 PM EDT

Pretty soon the final cuts will need to be made. One question will be to keep Bowker (who is out of options). If Garrett Jones could be traded (SF since Cody Ross is out for awhile?), has Bowker shown enough to use him to platoon in RF and backup Overbay at 1B? From what Bowker has done in ST he seems to play decent defense(maybe better than Jones) and hits with power. He is also 2 years younger than Jones.

What do ya'll think?

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Trade Jones and keep Bowker

It sounds like a good plan. It would be ironic if the trade were to include San Francisco since Bowker came from the Giants last summer.

s.zielinski

by steve_z on Mar 24, 2011 7:57 PM EDT reply actions

I'd be fine with it.

I doubt we could find anybody willing to give up much for Jones, though.

by Vlad on Mar 24, 2011 8:03 PM EDT reply actions

And you're still not sure about Bowker

I agree with the proposition that Bowker’s minor league numbers look better than Jones’s. That’s clear. But Bowker still hasn’t shown he can hit ML pitching.

Viva Clemente!

by Roberto on Mar 25, 2011 4:23 AM EDT up reply actions

The other factor is that…this is still Spring Training. Just because you whack the ball around well in Spring Training doesn’t mean it translates to Regular Season Ball. If you trade Jones and Bowker drops off the face of the earth, then your platoon isn’t really that good any more is it?

So I’m more inclined to keep both….unless you can really get a good trade piece from another team.

by lfhlaw on Mar 25, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions

Since neither has trade value, keep both.

by Adam Reynolds on Mar 24, 2011 8:08 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

heh, this

by BurgherKing on Mar 24, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions

yep

by Slick1 on Mar 25, 2011 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions

That probably costs us Rodriguez.

Not convinced that’s the best course.

Jones DOES still have an option remaining, IIRC…

by Vlad on Mar 25, 2011 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions

Id probably keep Jones, Bowker, Ciriaco, Rodriguez, and not keep Jaramillo, Fields, Pearce. Its still workable.

by Adam Reynolds on Mar 25, 2011 11:06 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Jones DOES still have an option remaining, IIRC…

Actually, Jones is out of options.

by impliedi on Mar 25, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions

I don't think he is.

By your count, what years did he use his three?

by Vlad on Mar 25, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions

MiLB Debut: 1999
MLB Debut: 5/15/2007
MLB FA Eligible: 2016
Added to 40-Man: 6/30/2009
Options Remaining: 0 (USED: 2005, 2006, 2007)

I’m assuming this is accurate.

by insane_sanity on Mar 25, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions

I was going by the PiratesProspects list, the same one insane just listed.

And I went back and verified that Jones did use up all 3 of his options with the Twins (2005, 2006, 2007) as it was listed.

In 2008, Jones was removed from the 40-man, and cleared waivers allowing the Twins to assign him to Rochester.

Then he became a minor league free agent in 2009, where he joined the Bucs.

Went to Indy and then joined the Pirates when Eric Hinske got traded, at which point he was added to the Pirates 40-man.

So, he is out of options. And since he has already been “designated for assignment” once with the Twins, I assume if the Pirates wanted him to go down to Indy, he’d had to be given his outright release, so he’d be a free agent and would have to re-sign a minor league deal.

by impliedi on Mar 25, 2011 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions

I can't check that page at work.

PP’s player pages don’t load correctly for me on IE. I appreciate the link, though.

I didn’t think he was added to the roster for the 2005 season. If you’re correct, then it looks like he would have used his full three.

So, he is out of options. And since he has already been "designated for assignment" once with the Twins, I assume if the Pirates wanted him to go down to Indy, he’d had to be given his outright release, so he’d be a free agent and would have to re-sign a minor league deal.

That’s not quite how it works. First, he’d have to clear waivers, and if he did, we’d have to give him the choice of whether to accept an outright assignment to one of our minor league affiliates or declare free agency (unless we specifically wanted to outright release him, for some reason). Your first outright assignment, you’re obligated to accept, but on subsequent ones, you’re given the choice.

by Vlad on Mar 27, 2011 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions

The whole point is to have multiple layers.

If one guy can not hit major league pitching, throw in the other for some at bats.

by Adam Reynolds on Mar 24, 2011 8:33 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

Wouldn't get much for either.

Why not keep them both and pray for a breakout.

by Woo! on Mar 24, 2011 8:47 PM EDT reply actions

While purely anectdotal

and not sabremetrically based, I was following Bowker pretty closely in the minors last year – planned on scooping hiim up in our office league and looking brilliant. He was ripping the ball in ST/AAA. He got called up and named the starter and hit around the Mendoza line. There’s a reason we got him in the discount bin last year.

"Who is John Galt?"

by Trogluddite on Mar 24, 2011 8:51 PM EDT reply actions

his plate discipline

improved in leaps and bounds in 2009 and 2010. The difference between his K% and BB% dropped pretty sharply. Maybe it was a factor of his age, maybe of repeating the level. In either case, though, I could see him breaking out. I hope he does. I’ve liked him for a while, and was elated when we got him in the trade.

by BurgherKing on Mar 24, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions

I was

cautiously not overly-pessimistic

"Who is John Galt?"

by Trogluddite on Mar 24, 2011 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't think we'll get anything for Jones.

No reason to throw him away for nothing. I do have a feeling Bowker will probably go north with the team, though.

by MarkInDallas on Mar 24, 2011 9:52 PM EDT reply actions

Agreed.

Personally, I’d like to see Jones & Bowker remain because the Pirates won’t have a lot of great 1B options going into next year (unless they have plans to re-sign Overbay).

I would think that if all goes really well Andrew Lambo is the starting RF next year, Diaz will still be here since he signed for 2 years, but 1B will be a bit of a mess.

So, at first you’re looking at somebody from Bowker/Jones/Pearce (and maybe Jeff Clement again).

by impliedi on Mar 25, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions

There's a fair bit of risk in both sides of that platoon.

Matt Diaz is coming off wrist surgery. That sounds like Iwamura if you’re a pessimist. Id rather have a guy like Diaz with major league base running and defense, but he’s not safe with the stick.

by Adam Reynolds on Mar 24, 2011 10:14 PM EDT reply actions

Major league....

defense? Did you see him Wednesday. He is not going to add any defensive value or value on this bases. If he doesn’t kill lefties he’s useless.

The Hammer Speaks
Twitter: @hammerspeaks

by David Todd on Mar 25, 2011 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions

i think jones has low value right now

The second he heats up id move him for a B prospect or any better deal we can get.

by Kosstic518 on Mar 24, 2011 11:41 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

its going to happen sooner or later

by white angus on Mar 25, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions

Nah

by HonzaBednarik on Mar 25, 2011 12:46 AM EDT reply actions

I`d trade Bowker for SS Wood of the Angels

or maybe to Cleveland for JRod

Cedeno needs a platoon partner

by bmcferren on Mar 25, 2011 8:34 AM EDT reply actions

What kind of a platoon can you run...

…with two right-handed batters?

I don’t want any part of Wood. His issues with contact are too serious.

by Vlad on Mar 25, 2011 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions

perhaps

We could try Wood hitting left-handed.

Perhaps he’d have better luck making contact.

by insane_sanity on Mar 25, 2011 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions

Purpose is to put pressure on Cedeno

not for RH/LH matchups

by bmcferren on Mar 25, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions

theres plenty of pressure on cedeno.

i gare-on-tee it

by white angus on Mar 25, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions

Haha!!

Yeah, I don’t think Cedeno requires any more pressure!! I have to imagine that the Pirates are thrilled that Ciriaco seems to be showing some comfort at the plate, I would think Ciriaco’s presence and his outstanding glove is a good enough amount of pressure.

by impliedi on Mar 25, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions

and with d'Arnaud now in tripleA, cedeno has his last chance to show us something, IMO

by white angus on Mar 25, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes!!! This would be a GREAT year for d'Arnaud to take a huge leap forward with his game.

by impliedi on Mar 25, 2011 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Second that!

I would love for D’Arnaud to have a great season. Who knows, if he plays we’ll there’s a chance we could see him in Pittsburgh this year.

by Slick1 on Mar 25, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions

nah, im hoping d'Arnaud stinks it up this season

i hate names with apostrophies. its fricken stoopid.

by white angus on Mar 25, 2011 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions

agreed

The only thing that would make a name w/ an apostrophe any worse is if it were hyphenated.

by insane_sanity on Mar 27, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions

Easy solution…Pedro throws right handed, so put him at short against RHPs!

by MarkInDallas on Mar 25, 2011 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions

That brings a question to mind

Does anyone know of a SS who hit left handed?

by MarkInDallas on Mar 25, 2011 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions

If we’re going old-school: Arky Vaughan

I’m not sure contemporary: Cristian Guzman was a switch-hitter…but I remember him hitting LH a lot.

by insane_sanity on Mar 25, 2011 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions

Craig Counsell

by element1286 on Mar 25, 2011 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions

nice

good call

by insane_sanity on Mar 25, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions

Awesome!

Craig Counsell is the answer to our problems at short! Let’s get ’er done, Neal!

by MarkInDallas on Mar 25, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions

Reid Brignac

by maguro on Mar 25, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions

holt

by white angus on Mar 25, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions

Not sure about HITTING left-handed...

but saw this from a few years ago that claims that the last time a left-handed THROWING shortstop entered a game was 1909 (Hal Chase, who played there for just 1 game that season), but he didn’t have any fielding chances, but he did back in 1905. He, of course, played for the Yankees and was best-known for playing 1st. Boy, they can afford anything!!! Left-handed throwing shortstops and everything.

Too bad he’s not still around, so we could have the only lefty/righty throwing combo at SS. They could switch depending on what batter is up!!

by impliedi on Mar 25, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions