Clint Hurdle: John Bowker Superfluous On Pirates Bench

by Charlie Wilmoth on Apr 29, 2011 2:50 PM EDT

Some interesting stuff from Clint Hurdle regarding John Bowker, Xavier Paul and Alex Presley:

Bowker got caught in a logjam on the depth chart. "He was my third left fielder, my third right fielder, my third first baseman," Hurdle said.

Paul is still the Pirates' third left fielder and third right fielder, so I guess the advantage he has is that he's the second center fielder. And he has some speed.

The article notes that the Pirates considered Paul "an upgrade over Alex Presley," who has a similar skill set, but I don't agree. If you look at Presley's minor-league numbers, Presley has more power, and has put up good overall numbers despite hitting in a relatively neutral context in Indianapolis, as opposed to the crazy one in Albuquerque.

Here's Hurdle's explanation:

"He's got major league experience and he's done more time [in Class AAA ] with more success," Hurdle said of Paul. "We had that conversation about Alex Presley, I actually had it with [director of player development] Kyle Stark."

That Paul has "had more success" than Presley at Class AAA is, I think, debatable. If you plug Paul's 2010 Class AAA numbers into the MLE calculator, you get a .248/.289/.429 line in Pittsburgh, compared to .256/.304/.387 line when you adjust his 2010 and 2011 Class AAA numbers for playing in Pittsburgh. That's a little better for Paul, but not much, particularly considering that Presley has hit better in 2011 than in 2010 and that Paul has also logged 133 big-league at-bats in 2010 and 2011 and basically done nothing with them. But maybe the Pirates simply want Presley - who wasn't even really a prospect before a very surprising 2010 season - to log more than 354 at bats at Class AAA before they give him an extended shot.

This isn't a big deal, in any case, but it appears that the Pirates just had little use for Bowker and preferred a guy who hits a little bit less but can pinch-run and back up Andrew McCutchen in center. After seeing Darren Ford run like crazy against the Bucs a few days ago, I can certainly understand that point of view, but I would still rather have the guy who can hit a little.

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Comments

Don't get this

I don’t get this at all. Does this mean Presley has no chance of coming up ever? This explanation makes no sense to me. If Presley does this until the break then what happens?

Yinzers uber alles

by BostonBuc on Apr 29, 2011 3:02 PM EDT reply actions

Presley tore up AA for the first half of 2010, earning a promotion to Indy, where he did OK but not stellar.

He’s starting 2011 tearing up AAA; if he continues to do so, I fully expect him to be called up this year.

by DG Lewis on Apr 29, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions

My take as well

No rush on bringing Presley up, and if Paul is unimpressive, then he’s gone, and Presley comes up, just as he would have had Paul never arrived.

IOW, seems to me that this is simply the FO taking the opportunity to kick the tires on an additional player.

We talk a lot on this blog about the optimal allocation of innings and such for getting a look at young players. Seems like NH has taken that concept a step further, treating the last few slots on the 25-man as essentially tryout positions. There’s a SSS issue with that (Rodriguez and Bowker hardly got a chance), but it’s better scouting than merely looking from afar. I kind of like it (although I recognize it has potentially serious flaws).

by JRoth95 on Apr 29, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions

That makes sense.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Apr 29, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions

yep.

plus, Presley’s situation is sufficiently similar to Steve Pearce’s (despite not having quite the same skill set) that I don’t think it would hurt to give Presley extended time at AAA to work out all the kinks and see who he really is, even if he’s tearing it up and ’doesn’t have anything left to learn.

Redeemed.

by escroll on Apr 29, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions

No rush on bringing Presley up, and if Paul is unimpressive, then he’s gone, and Presley comes up, just as he would have had Paul never arrived.

This.

Seems like NH has taken that concept a step further, treating the last few slots on the 25-man as essentially tryout positions.

And this.

Not sure whether the second one is literally true, but I hope it is.

You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.

by WTM on Apr 29, 2011 4:05 PM EDT reply actions

Oops

Didn’t line that up right with JR’s post.

You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.

by WTM on Apr 29, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions

My guess is that X Paul won't be around very long if Alex Presley plays well for an extended period at AAA.

It’s probably more important for Presley to play every day for a while longer than to have him ride the pine too much for a long part of the season in Pittsburgh.

by patthatt on Apr 29, 2011 4:12 PM EDT reply actions

I say let Presley continue to play everday at AAA rather than get the occasional pinch hit and rare start in the bigs.

by Brakeman8 on Apr 29, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions

agree

And who knows, Jones may be gone at the deadline and Presley comes up as the left-handed half of the RF platoon.

"So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded?! Yea. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us an you're retarded. Thats 25 percent." Southpark; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce
RIP Corey Keller, James Taylor, M. Jay Darby, Derek Davis.

by gorillakilla34 on Apr 30, 2011 1:50 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Why didn't they just say, "we want to make sure Presley doesn't become a Super-2"

Just in case there still are Super-2’s in two years.

And what JRoth95 said.

by azibuck on Apr 29, 2011 4:28 PM EDT reply actions

I’m not worried about Presley becoming a super two. He’ll be lucky to spend two full years in the majors. I think a lot of people are severely overrating him.

You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.

by WTM on Apr 29, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions

He looked pretty good on Tuesday and Weds.

“scouting report” forthcoming from trip to Indy.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Apr 29, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Then trying out XP was a good move, no?

by DG Lewis on Apr 29, 2011 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, I kinda liked Bowker.

But generally I’m all for the notion that we keep trying guys who at least are probably still on the upward part of their careers. Just keep trying guys until somebody comes through. So, give the X man a shot and if he doesn’t play well, give Presley a shot.

You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.

by WTM on Apr 30, 2011 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions

After seeing Darren Ford run like crazy against the Bucs a few days ago…

Darren Ford could run circles around Xavier Paul.

by Vlad on Apr 29, 2011 4:55 PM EDT reply actions

Then we would have a circle with an X in the middle, and people would start digging for treasure, and the whole day would be shot.

by Wizard of Woz on Apr 29, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs

well we are Pirates, ya know

by Garrett122 on Apr 29, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions

To be fair, I would have preferred a speed guy this offseason, not just because Ford beat us.

by Adam Reynolds on Apr 29, 2011 7:11 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

I wonder if Hurdle just doesn't like Presley

A smaller guy like Alex who isn’t all tools probably doesn’t look all that impressive in practice. Maybe Clint is underrating him but if he continues to rip AAA they will have to take him seriously.

by Mr. E on Apr 30, 2011 11:02 PM EDT reply actions