Jumpin Jack Flash out of 2nd chances in Seattle
by long4willie on Apr 9, 2011 2:36 PM EDT
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Jack Wilson is in hot water with the M's. According to the article at ESPN, Jack who is learning a new position at 2nd this year, made back to back errors trying to turn an inning ending DP with Seattle's ace on the hill in the home opener. He said/she said Jack was pulled out of the game. Jack said the manger (Eric Wedge) pulled him, Wedge said no way-Jack pulled himself. Needless, to say, Jumpin Jack Flash is now sitting the bench and may be done in Seattle.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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13 people who would welcome Jack back.....
The pitching staff.
by oldfrothingslosh on Apr 9, 2011 2:58 PM EDT reply actions
If Seattle pays most of his contract...
…and doesn’t ask for a legit prospect in return, why not welcome him back to play SS the rest of the year? It would help our young pitching staff and bridge the gap until D’Arnaud, Mercer, or Holt could take over.
I can’t imagine there are a lot of other teams clamoring to trade for Jack at this point, particularly if there are attitude concerns. If they’ll essentially give him away, I’m all for it.
Welcome back, Jack?
No. nononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononono.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
Personally,
I don’t think he’s a capable SS any more.
Also, he can’t hit. (Still.)
IMO, we need to move forward on players, not backward.
Yes, I know we don’t have a lot of SS options right now. So be it.
If he quit on the Mariners, what’s to stop him from doing it here when things don’t go swimmingly for him?
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Apr 9, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
You beat me to it...
There’s no prove he can still play short.
There's no proof he can't play short either.
He went from one of the best defensive shortstops in the league 2 years at 31 to "can’t play shortstop" a year and a half later?
The reason he’s not playing short in Seattle has nothing do with any lack of ability to play the position there.
so he isnt playing SS
because the FO wants to see Brendan Ryan? Who might be one of the few guys likely to turn in a worse season at the plate than JW?
by BurgherKing on Apr 10, 2011 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Ryan is younger, healthier and has 3 years to FA.
Jack had those hammy problems last year and the questions surrounding his hammy and durability caused him to question whether he could be forced to retire soon.
For a team that is putting all their eggs into the Wilson basket, it’s not a good percentage play. For a team who has a fallback option like Cedeno, it’s a better idea, IMHO.
by MarkInDallas on Apr 10, 2011 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions
i think our FO is hoping that someone internal like d'Arnaud or Rodriguez will take the job from Cedeno
especially since they would like to not spend the Hardy type of money for that position
We'll see what happens with D'Arnaud.
I’ll bet if he continues his good start tot the season for the first month that he will see more and more playing time at SS, in a Neil Walker-like scenario.
by MarkInDallas on Apr 10, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Why don't you think he can play SS anymore?
Anecdotally, that highlight-reel DP the other day shows he still has pretty good range, and he’s still got an amazing arm. Durability is a concern, sure, but I think he could be a very nice defensive shortstop still.
I’m not saying we should give up any assets or spend more than a few bucks to get him for the rest of the year. But if they’re just looking to unload, Cedeno isn’t the answer, Rodriguez can’t handle the position defensively, and D’Arnaud isn’t ready… why not?
The play he made
was from 2B.
And the 2 errors he made the next day, and yanked himself from the lineup?
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Apr 9, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, it was from 2B
But it showed he still has crazy good range. And the 2 errors probably have as much to do with him being uncomfortable at 2B as anything else. Do you think errors would be more indicative that he can no longer by SS or is his range a better indicator?
Without seeing the plays the errors were committed on,
you’re hypothesizing as to what happened. Perhaps they did have something to do with his range.
IMO (as I stated above), he doesn’t have the range, and as important, the durability to play SS.
And I wouldn’t want him on the Pirates for the other reasons I stated.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Apr 9, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
They did not have anything to do with his range.
The first one was a dropped ball on a possible double play from 3B where the runner was bearing down on him and the throw was low and handcuffed him.
The second was also on a possible double play ball where Kinsler was sliding into him and he threw the ball away on the throw to first.
Both plays were obviously a problem of Wilson simply not being comfortable with receiving a throw on a double play where he can’t see the runner coming in to take him out.
I'll also say
It’s just crazy to me that people think Wilson doesn’t have the range or skills to play shortstop anymore. What basis do you have to say that? I agree there are major issues with Wilson’s durability, which was a big problem when the Pirates didn’t have an acceptable backup. Now that we do in Cedeno, Wilson would make out infield a lot better, and he’s no worse a hitter than Cedeno is.
Mark,
I base my opinion on something I read pre-season, from where I cannot now recall. Perhaps the SBN Mariners’ site, or ESPN, or who the hell knows, and also on having seen Jack one or two games last season.
It’s just one man’s opinion. I can agree to disagree. If you think I’m crazy, well, you wouldn’t be the first to say so.
I also factor in the reasons I mentioned above- which nobody has agreed or disagreed with – as to why I wouldn’t want him.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Apr 11, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Last year, Jack was having all kinds of problems with his hamstrings. While those could reappear, they seem to be healed for now.
Anyway, after watching D’Arnaud play on MiLB tv the last several games, I think there’s a decent chance the Pirates won’t need to look further than that this year for a new shortstop.
by MarkInDallas on Apr 11, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
While those could reappear…
It’s very common for that injury to recur once an athlete starts having trouble in that area, FWIW. Particularly so for WRs in football.
i tore my hammy two years ago in my first ballgame in 20 years... grade 2 tear no less...
still gives me problems.
by white angus on Apr 11, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Wilson
would be a great help to Walker in making him a better 2nd baseman. Plus his expeirence could help cover up any range that he may have lost.
Although I really don’t think it can happen. I enjoy speculating on it.
Maybe if the Pirates can stay close to .500 for a good period NH may make a move for somebody. Let’s hope so.
by oldfrothingslosh on Apr 9, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Also.....
I think Alvarez would benefit from having Jack helping him. Most people have seen how Overbay has steadied the infield at first, I think Jack and Overbay together would really tighten up the defense and with the type of pitchers we have could make a real difference.
by oldfrothingslosh on Apr 9, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m in favor, but obviously it’s just not going to happen.
by Adam Reynolds on Apr 9, 2011 3:24 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I was one of the only advocates of non-tendering Cedeno (and Milledge)
But now that the Pirates have taken the financial plunge, they should probably give him another 2 months.
Bring in Jack as utility guy for now, and send Rodriguez back to Cleveland, or option Pearce to 3A.
by Adam Reynolds on Apr 9, 2011 4:19 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Wilson > Rodriguez?
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Apr 9, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably
Even a diminished Jack can probably play shortstop. And it doesn’t sound like J-Rod was that great at second base last night (only had the radio feed, but could remember hearing “off the glove of Rodriguez”).
by Adam Reynolds on Apr 9, 2011 4:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think I'd rather have Cedeno...
over a crybaby who pulls himself out of the game after making two errors. Happy retirement Jack; send us a postcard.
DEAD ON, SON.
WILSON WAS A LOCKER ROOM SH*TSTIRRER WHILE WITH THE PIRATES. HE’D FLASH HIS CROCODILE SMILE AND PLAY THE “TEAM GUY” WHILE SITTING IN FRONT OF THE MEDIA AND THEN BAD MOUTH THE FRONT OFFICE AND THE STAFF WHEN THE CAMERAS WERE OFF.
by CUNNING STUNTS on Apr 9, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Brendan Ryan is one of the best (if not the best) defensive SS in the majors. Which is why Jack is at 2B. Jack didn’t want to leave Pittsburgh either.
I certainly wouldn’t pay full price for him, but if Seattle was willing to eat some salary (down to about what Cedeno is making), I’d think about it. We could always give them Gorkys. Heck…they could have Cedeno back.
Gorkys has much more value than Wilson.
Gorkys still profiles to be the centerfield version of Jack Wilson, but he’s a decade younger. Neither can hit, neither can allow a hit to get by them.
NH will never take him back… Wilson ripped the front office especially after the Bay trade. NH does not like any criticism or opinions from players.
by Krid on Apr 9, 2011 5:55 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
YOU'RE BEING A LITTLE HARSH ON HUNTINGTON
WILSON HAD THE BALLS TO SAY HE WOULDN’T CONSIDER RESIGNING WITH THE PIRATES UNLESS THE FRONT OFFICE ALSO EXTENDED HIS BOYFRIEND, FREDDIE SANCHEZ. THAT’S SOME BIG BALLS FROM A .255 AVE PUNCH AND JUDY HITTER. IT NEVER FAILS TO AMAZE ME THAT THIS CLOWN HAS MADE OVER $30 MILLION IN HIS CAREER.
PLUS WILSON’S DEFENSE WAS/IS A LITTLE OVERRATED. WILSON OFTEN TURNED A ROUTINE PLAY INTO A PERSONAL HIGHLIGHT FILM BY FLOPPING ALL OVER THE FIELD WHEN A SIMPLE BACKHAND OF THE GLOVE WOULD HAVE SUFFICED. IT REMINDS ME OF HOW DEFENSIVE BUFFOON, BOBBY BONILLA ,USED TO MAKE ESPN’S PLAY OF THE DAY ALL THE TIME WITH A DIVING CATCH IN THE OUTFIELD. THE REASON BOBBY BO HAD TO DIVE WAS BECAUSE HE’D ALWAYS GET A LATE BREAK ON THE BALL. .
IT’S BEEN A SAD 18 YEARS OF PIRATE BASEBALL WHEN THE FANS HAVE TO RESORT TO COMMENTING ON WHAT A “GOOD PLAYER” JACK WILSON WAS.
by CUNNING STUNTS on Apr 9, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
eh, dont care
i dont think we’ll see JW in pitt, and while it’ll probably make us better for 55-60 games, it hardly matters.
guys, maybe its just best to let the past be the past
despite Wilson being a better glove man than Cedeno, he didnt exactly set the league on fire, or win any gold gloves, or help the team become better.
im not dissin’ Jack on here, just saying its time to move on fellas.
Gold Glove...bah.
Remember when Rafael Palmeiro won it, when spent 140 or so games as the designated hitter?
Sort of legitimized the Gold Glove in my eyes, I must admit.
Thank you Ned Colletti.
or the fact that Jeter has won it for the last however many years
and there are at least 7 better defensive SS in the AL
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." Wes Westrum
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Apr 11, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Two words:
Nate McLouth.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Apr 11, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
too bad he can't see his gold glove unless he is really close to it
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." Wes Westrum
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Apr 11, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
HA!
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Apr 11, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
The whole world knows about Palmiero because its cited so many times. Even if the GG were near perfect, any time someone wanted to disparage it, there’s always Palmiero.
It does pretty much debunk the whole award because it makes you realize that the people voting for the award don’t actually know how those players are performing that year. So, regardless of whether a player has a reputation that is deserved or not, the fact is that the rep is not necessarily based on reality.
by MarkInDallas on Apr 11, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, and it also shows that despite Jack's great play at short, his peers thought otherwise
by white angus on Apr 11, 2011 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought writers voted for CG
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." Wes Westrum
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Apr 11, 2011 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
*GG
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." Wes Westrum
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Apr 11, 2011 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
The people voting on the Gold Gloves...
are the coaches and managers in that league. And they don’t watch teams outside their division but 6 games a season…so it’s all reputation.
Stop already. Dave Cameron has written completely asinine drivel plenty of times. Temple Priest Tango has tripped over himself with statistics. I guess that debunks the notion that the people posing as gurus and a super-elite that knows more than anyone are actually knowledgeable. I just heard a podcast where Keith Law used the absolutely comical argument that players don’t vary performance through effort – usually expressed as “why wouldn’t they try hard all the time.” That’s a common one which anyone who took a couple science courses in college would know is laughably silly, yet its common.
Your conclusion isn’t supported by your premises.
Jack will still be on the bench soon.
They are going to bring up Ackley soon and then Jack won’t have a starting gig.
by MarkInDallas on Apr 11, 2011 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
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