Bauer vs. Cole

by Winger31 on May 13, 2011 11:25 AM EDT

Some experts and mock drafts have the Pirates picking up Gerrit Cole in the MLB 2011 Draft. At this point I would have to disagree. After reviewing some stats of Gerrit Cole and Trevor Bauer, I have come to the conclusion that Bauer is a far better pitcher than Cole despite not having the fastball Cole has.

Here is Bauer stats:

1.43

100.2

154

W=9 L=2 ERA=1.43 GS=12 CG=6 IP=100.2 BB=30 SO=154 K\9 =13.8 (He also had 1 game where he SO 17)

Here is Cole stats:

W=5 L=5 ERA=3.25 GS=12 CG=3 IP=83 BB=16 SO=86 K\9=9.3

1.43

100.2

154

I don't have any facts to back this up but this reminds me of the 2006 MLB Draft when the Pirates took hard throwing right hander Brad Lincoln instead of a smaller less velocity pitcher Tim Lincecum. FYI Lincoln K\9 10.7 and Lincecum had a 14.3 (I love this stat). I look at Bauer as Lincecum and Cole as Lincoln.

Should I feel differently?

Poll

Who should the Pirates Draft Bauer or Cole?

Bauer

14 votes

Cole

18 votes

Someone Else

48 votes

80 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.

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Comments

beuer vs cole

i gotta go with cole. hes the bigger guy, has an attitude… im speaking of cage fighting though

by white angus on May 13, 2011 11:49 AM EDT reply actions

Yes. You should disregard both of them and resign yourself to Rendon

by bucfaninwa on May 13, 2011 12:24 PM EDT reply actions

I love Rendon. But I dont think the bucs will take him. I will be pissed if they grab the lefty from VA.

by Winger31 on May 13, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions

hard throwing college lefty? i wouldnt be mad, i think no matter who the buccos take it will vastly improve the team in the near future (barring injury). top 3 choices seem to be college players who could be in the majors fairly quickly.

i still prefer Rendon, Cole, Hultzen in that order…ive also previously done a right up on Bauer. Any of the 4 will be ok with me, as long as they are signed

We have to unify and watch our flag ascend!

by C Shint on May 13, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Do you have the link to the write up on Bauer?

by Winger31 on May 13, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions

its not much, more than anything its simply links to his bio and stats, but it was just my opinion of him a few weeks back

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/4/19/2120569/trevor-bauer-rhp-ucla-bruins

We have to unify and watch our flag ascend!

by C Shint on May 13, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions

as i've said before

i’ve huge doubts about Cole, and hope they don’t touch him. Or, if they do, they better have something they can fix, because the current Cole, unhelped, isn’t going to be anything.

by BurgherKing on May 13, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions

i havent seen any video on Cole recently but I have taken notice to him not being so dominate as once preceived. Not sure what the problem could be but I’m sure the Pirates know more than we do

We have to unify and watch our flag ascend!

by C Shint on May 13, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions

there is one thing ive heard about Cole that IS impressive

not only is he throwing mid to upper 90s, but hes doing that late in games as well. in fact, some of his highest pitches have been coming around the 100 pitch mark.

say what you want, thats impressive.

by white angus on May 13, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions

He gave up 7 Earned runs 2 starts ago, Explain?

by Winger31 on May 13, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Explain what?

He’s focussing on his stuff over his results. It’s a smart idea when your’re selecting number one. Mike Leake’s stats from a couple of years ago rivaled Bauer’s and I wouldn’t select Leake #1. Besides Hultzen’s stats are as impressive, arguably moreso, than Bauer’s. They guy has an ridiculous K to walk ration. It’s like 11:1 last time I checked.

by Slick1 on May 13, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Hultzen's line as of 5/3:

Player ERA W-L GS CG IP H R ER BB SO HR B/Avg WP HBP

D. Hultzen..1.19 9-1 11 11 75.2 50 16 10 12 112 2 .187 0 6

by Slick1 on May 13, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions

i dont know much about college baseball

but if i m not mistaken, Hultzen is playing in a significantly weaker league? That doesn’t eliminate him as an option of course, just something to keep in mind.

by BurgherKing on May 13, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions

If anything

The ACC is a better league than the PAC-10.

by maguro on May 13, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions

ok

so Rendon or Hultzen? :-)

by BurgherKing on May 13, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions

i agree. the ACC has stepped up in the last few years

the cavaliers are playing other worldly right now

by white angus on May 13, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions

ACC is tougher than Pac 10

by Slick1 on May 13, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Hultzen has completed every game hes started?

by white angus on May 13, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions

I’m pretty sure Cole is focusing on winning, not stuff.

by Mr. E on May 13, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes he is...

but thank God scouts look at more than just superficial stats.

by Slick1 on May 13, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions

I just hope they aren’t too zoomed in to miss the bigger picture. I will probably be happy with whichever they pick.

by Mr. E on May 14, 2011 4:26 AM EDT up reply actions

lincoln turned out much better than lincecum huh slick?

K’s per 9 are an important “tell” on how hittable your stuff is despite how big and hard you throw.

by jackiegleason on May 14, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions

quite a few teams passed on Lincecum, capt'n hindsight

by white angus on May 14, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions

proves my point

like Col taking Reynolds because he threw hard and was supposedly projectable despite the fact he had Cole-like numbers vs a Lincecum who has either Bauer or Hultzen like numbers.

Guys who K 13 plus per 9 and limit opposing batters in the mid .100’s, guys who completely dominated the competition almost always out perform these so-called projections like Reynolds and i’ll throw Cole in there too.

Looking back at these reaches on pitchers who were hittable in college, they usually dont pan out.

There is a reason besides your favorite scape goat phrase of bad luck and a guy has an attitude, just a shame he cant get college kids out.

by jackiegleason on May 14, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions

What the fuck are you talking about?

When did this become a Lincecum vs Lincoln debate. OK, yeah and Randy Johnson turned out to better than Bryan Bullington didn’t he Jackie Jenkins?

And for the record Cole had over 11 K/9 as Fr and Soph so it’s not like he doesn’t get strikeouts. Thanks for the lecture anyway. Try again later. #missingthepoint

by Slick1 on May 14, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions

yeah and Laroche hit 20 plus HR's in 2007

do you believe in that outdated B A handbook huntington uses?

Missing the point is believing a guy who’s getting beaten around by college kids isn’t trying to win, he’s trying to work on things LMAO.

by jackiegleason on May 14, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Wow...

I don’t know if you are being intentionally stupid or if you have disability. Please tell me where I said Cole wasn’t trying to win. I dare you. Go ahead and do it. Sometimes you are so ridiculous it isn’t even funny. Please bring your alter ego back because, while he still had the same condescending attitude this one possesses, at least he had some intelligent things to say about baseball.

I don’t believe Cole’s problems are because he is trying to work on things. I think he is having legitimate struggles and he doesn’t know the cause. I also think that his problems are correctable. That’s all. His arsenal is unique but the results are a concern. My contention all along has been that if he is selected it’s because the front office also believes his problems are correctable and I think that is a reasonable position. #still#missingthepoint

by Slick1 on May 14, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Lincoln was very dominant in college

Struck out 11 per 9 innings, 1.37 ERA, first team All American, won the Dick Howser trophy as the top player in college baseball, etc.

If you’re arguing that Lincoln was selectec based on tools alone and no performance, you’re dead wrong.

by maguro on May 14, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions

And he's only 6'1"...

and Huntington didn’t select him. I have no idea what point he is trying to make.

by Slick1 on May 14, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh and fwiw...

Bullington K’d over 12/9.

by Slick1 on May 14, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions

lincoln turned out much better than lincecum huh slick? K’s per 9 are an important "tell" on how hittable your stuff is despite how big and hard you throw.

The year we drafted Lincoln, he had 152 Ks (and 32 BBs) in 127 2/3 innings. He wasn’t just some slappy – he put up very good numbers in college.

He was probably the best overall athlete of all the top pitching prospects that year, too. There were teams that had a second-round grade on him as an OF (though of course everybody knew he was going to end up on the mound).

by Vlad on May 16, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions

(Didn’t see Maguro’s post before I posted this.)

by Vlad on May 16, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions

+1 Mr Ed

for anyone to suggest otherwise is rediculous.

by jackiegleason on May 14, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions

Good thing no one suggeted otherwise.

by Slick1 on May 14, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions

“He’s focussing on his stuff over his results.”
- Slick1

results/winning same thing.

by Mr. E on May 14, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Nope...

I was referring to Angus’ comments not Cole. Angus was talking about Cole’s stuff and how they might matter more than his results.

by Slick1 on May 14, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Thanks though...

at least now I know where jackiegleason got that from. I thought he was just pulling something out of his ass but it appears that what I wrote is easily misinterpreted.

by Slick1 on May 14, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions

sorry slick, I read it the other way

by jackiegleason on May 14, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions

My bad too..

I worded it poorly. It does help explain the complete misuderstanding in our exchanges above.

by Slick1 on May 14, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions

gotcha

by Mr. E on May 14, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Roy Halladay had a bad start against Milwaukee a few weeks ago

Explain.

by maguro on May 13, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions

OK....I get it.

by Winger31 on May 13, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Taillon got knocked around by a few high school teams

pitchers get hit on occassion. Cole is looked upon as having ace material and has been for a while now. Bauer, with all due respect, is gaining in momentum.

but you cant judge college numbers, or even high school. you go with mechanics, skill level, projectability. not how many strikeouts you had against Alamance Community fukin College!!!

by white angus on May 13, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions

yep

it is, and it’s the key reason he’s expected to go high… given that he’s spent 3 years in college, though, I’m surprised he can’t use it better. I expect whoever signs Cole is looking at a ML deal, and in that context, I m not quite as sure of him.

by BurgherKing on May 13, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Take this FWIW...

but I think Cole’s problems are extremely correctable. I’m more concerned about his, and Bauer’s, workload than his stats.

by Slick1 on May 13, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions

right

and that’s something that the scouts and people picking have to decide.

The key thing that makes me uncomfortable is that Cole has been touted as having 3 above average pitches (in PiratesProspects today “He sits in the upper 90s, and has improved his change-up to a plus offering this year, giving him three above average or better pitches”) – above average for what level? college level? but below average command and control? Or do they simply project to be above average?

I mean, if we are talking about a guy that has 3 above average ML pitches, no way he doesn’t decimate the competition.

But anyway, as I said, I don’t really watch games- i’ve watched video, and everything i see tells me Cole will not be the kind of guy you want from a #1 pick. Of course, maybe a few small tweaks will turn him dominant, but as things are now, I don’t want Cole.

by BurgherKing on May 13, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions

ive seen video of Hultzen, mainly because I live in Virginia

he looks really good at there so far. Ive seen live coverage of Cole, and he some serious stuff. ive never seen Bauer.

by white angus on May 13, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions

He has three above average offerings for any level...

Law said he could see Cole stepping right into the majors next season without spending a day in the minors. That’s aggressive but that’s what I said.

by Slick1 on May 13, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions

above average for what level? college level?

When talking about draft prospects, “average” usually = ML average. Though it may be current or projection, depending on who’s doing the talking.

by Vlad on May 16, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions

whats wrong with Hultzen?

by BigB2323 on May 13, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Bauer is currently better but Cole is the better prospect. I think that’s the consensus.

by Mr. E on May 13, 2011 3:31 PM EDT reply actions

That's how I see it...

Can’t really argue any other way the perofmance Bauer has had. Hultzen and Bauer are damn close in overall numbers though. Hard to say who’s actually having the better season. I think I’d vote for Hultzen.

by Slick1 on May 13, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions

#1 pick

I like Keith Law’s stuff a lot, but when he wrote a while back that Cole compares to Strasburg, I thought that was unfair. Strasburg was a much different pitcher and type of talent. I think Cole will be very good (and Bauer may be too) but big pitchers get hit occasionally at their levels. As said above, Taillon got hit a little bit as a high schooler…and if everyone wants to get hung up on performance, Strasburg gave up 5 runs in his only CWS start against tougher competition. Guys get hit, it happens…a couple bad outings don’t immediately make me discard that guy as a possible pick. Now, if Cole keeps getting blasted the rest of the season, thats a different discussion.
To be honest, I have no idea who the Bucs should pick. For a while, I waffled on Cole and Rendon and I don’t think either is a bad pick…and none of the alternatives (Lindor, Hultzen, Bauer, Starling, whoever) are Moskos picks either…I think any one of those guys would immediately help the Bucs system. If you put a gun to my head, I guess I’d still go with Rendon, because I think that the shoulder injury, even though it isn’t enough to keep him out of the lineup, still may be affecting his hitting some, and I think that he brings a lot to the table.

by NastyNate82 on May 13, 2011 7:59 PM EDT reply actions

Keith Law is sensationalizing his crap as usual

look at their numbers, they aren’t on the same planet.

Same goes with Lincecum, both K’s over 13.5 per nine and had mid 100 BA’s against.

If you are having a hard time vs college kids, esp with these new dead bats along with not missing the bats with consistency, you really should not be in the equation as the number 1 pick.

Recent performance and performance curves do matter, or does the Milledge, Laroche, Eveland, Leroux, Crosby,Church,Cedeno, Overbay, Clement and every other tanking so called prospect thru Huntingtons doors all represent bad luck?

by jackiegleason on May 14, 2011 10:34 AM EDT reply actions

eveland, leroux, crosby and church were backups, nothing more... and overbay is an obvious stopgap until they find something better

i’ll give you clement, cedeno, milledge and laroche though… you cant compare the others simply because they were aquired to be bench players. i’ll give you a moss too for your bitter little list.

by white angus on May 14, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions