Brewers 9, Pirates 6: Bucs Get To Zack Greinke But Still Lose
by Charlie Wilmoth on May 15, 2011 5:23 PM EDT
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PrintThis one started really badly, as Kevin Correia allowed singles to Rickie Weeks and Carlos Gomez and then a three-run jack by Ryan Braun, all before getting a single out. Casey McGehee then added a solo homer of his own, and the first inning ended with the Brewers in control of a 4-0 lead.
In the second, the Brewers added an RBI triple by Braun, and in the third, it was an RBI double by Jonathan Lucroy. It began to feel academic to even worry about those runs, though, because Zack Greinke was just mowing the Pirates down, with a no-hitter through four.
After that, though, something happened. Neil Walker kicked off the fifth with an epic, 12-pitch at-bat that ended in a homer. That brilliant Walker at-bat seemed to take some of the wind out of Greinke who, later in the inning, gave up five straight hits, four for extra bases. I'm not sure how many pitches he threw that inning, but it was nearing 50, and I was a little surprised the Brewers stuck with him. It was equally surprising that the Pirates had an inning like that in the first place - it hasn't been often this year that the Bucs' tepid has managed to put together that kind of offense. The Pirates managed to narrow the Brewer lead to 6-5.
Unfortunately, that didn't last, as Lucroy hit a two-run homer on a terrible pitch by Chris Resop later in the inning. McGehee tacked on a run in the seventh when he reached second on a throwing error by Pedro Alvarez (that Lyle Overbay probably could have scooped, but didn't), advanced to third on a fly ball, and came home on a wild pitch.
The Pirates mounted a mini-comeback in the ninth inning, powered by a couple of bloop hits, but Jose Tabata grounded into a double play to end it.
Kudos to the Bucs for coming back from the dead not once but twice, but it wasn't enough.
Chris Snyder also was ejected in there for arguing balls and strikes, and I couldn't blame him - the home-plate ump was all over the place today.
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Resop
Is it time to get him in an MRI machine to see if he’s come down with Crotta’s disease? He has really been stinking up the joint for a while now so I’m wondering if there is something wrong with him.
He's still throwing hard
Just leaving some pitches over the plate…not much an MRI can tell you about that.
The guy was lights out last year and the first month of this year, then since May 1st, he’s been terrible. It’s not just one or two bad luck appearances, it’s pretty much every appearance. To me, that seems a trifle odd, is all.
or it could be that hitters have adjusted to him
it doesn’t matter how hard you throw, if you don’t have good secondary stuff, hitters can time it up.
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." Wes Westrum
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on May 15, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Lucroy hit a breaking pitch
Resop throws what is called 90 percent of the time… he had Lucroy dead if he had been told to throw a fast ball.. instead he hung a breaking pitch…
What makes you think Resop is supposed to be anything other than a decent reliever, at best?
I’ve been pleasantly suprised he’s been able to help us as much as he has.
but Resop was supposed to be given a chance to start. hes being screwed over, ya know
obviously keeping him in the bullpen has angered Resop and now hes just chuckin them in there,not caring where they end up.
yes, thats sarcasm
yes, it also sounds Carrasco-ish
Thought we were supposed to throw to hitters
why were we throwing more throws to first base rather than to the hitter… Resop had Lucroy if he would have been allowed to pitch not play catch with the first baseman
Yep.
So glad they’re not playing the Brewers again until August.
There is no love in the World. There's only pain.
its not just playing the Brewers...
its playing the brewers IN milwaukee. that fricken stadium is a bandbox and ryan fricken braun is the composer. amazing.
Park factors
It’s actually a pretty neutral park. Definitely not a bandbox.
+1000000000000
Fat Prince might wearing another uniform by then (Giants?)
by BadAndy on May 15, 2011 7:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Dejan Kovacevic:
The Bautista who hit 15 HR with .360 OBP, good eye, multiple positions in field was good enough to keep over third-string catcher.
.360 OBP? You could make an argument here without inventing stats. I asked him about it and he didn’t respond.
You're entitled to your opinion,
but what’s with the DK hate?
i like the guy
i like his articles for the PG. i miss him as a beat guy.
but today was the day i stopped following him on twitter because his tweets have become too numerous (half his tweets are about what ed bouchette just posted to PG+) and repetitive (hey, let’s rehash the bautista trade on twitter for the eleven thousandth time). maybe i like my dejan in limited amounts or maybe it’s just the peter principle in action.
Look, I don't know about the .360 OBP and all those numbers...
but his general point is correct, IMO. Just another bad trade by the FO. Now obviously nobody could’ve guessed he would’ve broken out and showed the ridiculous power numbers he’s put up over the course of the last season and a half.
But even if we kept him and he still only hit 15-20 HRs a year for us (which were about his numbers while he was here) as a corner outfielder, that is FAR more valuable than trading him for virtually nothing. Robinzon Diaz was with us one year and, like DK points out, was a backup. While Bautista obviously wasn’t what he is now for us, it would’ve been better to wait it out a little longer or try to at least something better in return.
I can’t really blame the FO for making a move because he was somewhat of a journeyman and even started his Blue Jay career on the bench, but I just thought the Pirates gave up a little too soon on Bautista.
Just my opinion.
he also wouldn't have gotten playing time here
At the time we wanted to give Little LaRoche a long look at 3B, we had McLouth in CF, and McCutchen and Alvarez ready to move up. Even if we did keep him, he wouldn’t have gotten too many ABs.
Obviously we gave up too early on him, thats not debateable. BUT he would have had to prove he was worth giving ABs to over other guys who seemed a lot more likely to produce at the time.
he would have been our best bat off the bench and available to start every time LaRoche stunk/locked up
It was a bad trade. You can’t put lipstick on a pig. It was either driven by dollars or poor ta;ent evaluation or both. He was a contributor who would have started 100 games at multiple positions as a backup and put up a higher OPS than all but 4 of our starters.
He was a negative WAR player with the Pirates...
As you say you can’t put lipstick on a pig. In this scenario, Batista was the pig. And he was getting expensive for a pig.
You are wrong.
In 2007 he was worth ,6 WAR and in 2008 he was worth 1.1 WARP. Of course thats not great, but he was making about a million and a half and he was better than all of our bench options after the trade. He was a useful player who was given away for nothing. I am not saying its a fireable offense, but it made our team worse in the short term and much worse in the longterm. The short term was quite forseeable.
Nu uh...
using Fangraphs he was +1.2 WAR in 2007. In 2008 he was .4 WAR and played most of his games for the Blue Jays iirc. For his entire career with the Pirates he was worth -.5. BBref has him at -1.1 for his Pirates career. Personally I would have kept him as a utility player but I didn’t mind the deal at the time at all especially when you consider that the catcher spot was a position of weakness at the time. The fact that Diaz played at all in Pittsburgh showed how bad the depth was. Yes the trade has not worked out at all but it’s hard to really fault Huntington for making the deal. And I don’t think keeping him as a utlity player would have increased his value. The reality is if he had remained with the Pirates he would have been released in the off season anyway.
Correction...
he played mist of his games with the Pirates in 2008. I forgot he was traded in August. That brings his total WAR with the Pirates, per FanGraphs, to -.1. Still negative WAR though.
Didn't Bautista say that the Pirates had wanted him to make some adjustments at the plate and he didn't til late '09(?) with the Jays?
It’s not only the Pirates that send players packing that are underachievers who don’t listen to instruction.
He just didn’t improve with the Pirates, from what I recall.And I think an awful lot of people reasonably expected more from Andy LaRoche.
You’re right, though, that we didn’t end up getting anything for him.
Who was behind the plate?
Same guy that was umpiring first last night?
yes
so that explains it
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." Wes Westrum
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on May 15, 2011 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I am sick and tired of losing to these bastards
It’s not like they are that much better than us to where we can only beat them 3 times in 33 tries. Ryan Braun needs to take a fastball to the ear hole. I’m tired of hearing if they will be able to resign Fielder all he does is hit the ball, he isn’t athletic, a good defensive first baseman and hasn’t taken the Brewers anywhere. Weeks is a little cry baby and this is one of the most classless org. in all of baseball with nothing to show for having their heads shoved that far up their collective asses.
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." Wes Westrum
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
YAY!!! No more Brewers for a while!!
Now we can…um…compete again?
But seriously, how much longer are we just gonna sit there and take it from the Brewers?? I mean, frick, get some pride about yourselves. Enough is enough.
When I saw Braun yelling while rounding the bases after hitting that HR in the first inning, I wanted to jump through the screen and punch him in the face. Dude acted like he had hit a walk-off bomb in Game 7 of the World Series. It’s not an accomplishment to hit a HR against Pirate pitching. Act like you’ve been there before.
I’m sure I speak for a lot of if not all Pirate fans when I say I cannot stand the Brewers! I love Braun and Fielder’s games, but they have no idea what keeping it classy means.
Oh well. Enough ranting. On to a team we actually have a chance to beat. Go Bucs!
I think i was more amped up during the game thread than the Pirates were the entire game
We have to unify and watch our flag ascend!
you say that now, but will gripe when NH doesnt bid on Braun's services when he is a FA
since he wont be a free agent until 2021, that point is moot. Braun can flat out hit, and i wouldnt call him classless. Fielder, on the other hand… well, you can see that the Brewers tied up Braun long term but not the Prince.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to have Braun on our team
That dude is one of the premier players in all of baseball, but it doesn’t change the kind of person he is. No matter if he played for the Brewers, Pirates, Yankees, Red Sox, whoever, he would still be a classless tool. He and Fielder are in the same boat when it comes to the way they conduct themselves, and it’s nothing but arrogance.
I just take solace in the fact that both of them play for an awful team that won’t compete.
If Braun played for us, I’d just have to deal with it while watching him with 35 bombs and driving in 100 every year. Of course if he played for us, his production would inexplicably drop to about 15 HRs and 70 RBI…just because he played for the Pirates.
Out of the remaining 4 games of the roadtrip…I don’t expect more than a split…more likely 3 of 4 losses (since the Reds have won 8 of their last 10). That’s a bad thing…because the 5 game homestand is going to be a disaster. The Tigers are red hot, 9 of their last 10, and the Braves are the Braves.
I was at all three games this series
This was the first time that the Pirates came to town since I moved to Milwaukee. The fans weren’t as bad as I expected them to be, but I’m not sure if I’ll be taking in a whole series here again. I was glad that the team at least kept fighting today.
I was at all three games also
We are a much worse team than the Brewers. Its that simple. They have four offensive players who are better than our best offensive player. They have four starters who are better than our best starter pitcher. It was fucking miserable series to watch, they are just a better team and it was painfully obvious.
Some good points but the Brewers won't get anywhere with their crap bullpen.
They’d like to have a few of the guys on our roster.
4 players... hmmmm, Braun- check, Fielder- check, Weeks- check... Hart???
I’ll give ya 3. Next year, it will be down to 2.
No he's not...
because, well…um…well you see…uh…um…OK, wait…um……..uh….
Yeah, I got nothin’.
Re: the Brewers
I don’t care what anyone else says. The Brewers simply do NOT respect nor have any fear of the Pirates. They show up and do whatever it is that they want: Hit HR’s, steal bases almost at will, fool them completely with pitching that is for the most part mediocre against the rest of the league. They come up to the plate, dig in, and take one big swing after another. Even the umpires can see it, which is why Milwaukee seems to get every close call. They do everything but laugh out loud at the notion the Pirates can compete with them. You can see it in the way they play, their walk, their attitude. This dates back a couple years to a time when several Pirates batters got plunked, Fielder unnecessarily ran over a catcher at the plate and Sleepy Russell didn’t have his pitchers retaliate. The Bucs have been Milwaukee’s whipping boys (20-0 ring a bell?)ever since.
The Pirates will continue to lose nearly every game to Milwaukee unless they change this perception. The only way to do that is to quit letting the Brewers walk all over them. Even though many will hate the idea, call it cheap or bush league or whatever, it starts with drilling either Braun or Fielder or both in their first at-bat next time. And whoever has the guts to do so should stand his ground and fight back when those whining babies get to the mound. Then, the Pirates need to barrel roll Weeks at second on a double play or while they are stealing second. Until the Pirates start getting agressive vs. Milwaukee, the same result will continue. It’s simple.
Too true
Those guys dug in without a care in the world. When Correia threw inside after the homerun and triple Braun just snorted. I also think the advance scouting we did for this series was abysmal. Every one of those guys(Brewers) came to the plate with a plan, our guys went up hoping they would hit the ball hard but certainly not expecting to.
It's not bush
it’s just something that needs to be done. At this point its the only way to the Brewers attention that we won’t be walked all over anymore. I say just bite the bullet and ear hole Braun, he needs it worse than Fielder does(which isn’t saying much but still). Then when Weeks complains about a runner making a good hard aggressive slide to break up a DP, get in his face and tell him to take it like a man.
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." Wes Westrum
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on May 15, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
That is cheap
We can’t beat them, so we’re gonna bean their best players with a pitch? While I would love to see Braun and Fielder get hit w/ a pitch every time up, that’s cheap. Now if you wanna hit Fielder or Braun for running their mouths or showing you up (like Braun throwing his arms in the air like an airplane that one time) with some kind of on-the-field antics, then yeah, hit ‘em all day. That’s called retaliation.
But to go after their best players simply because we can’t compete with them right now is childish and bush league.
Just freakin’ beat ’em!
Pirates 18-22, Brewers 19-21. It's a long season.
I look for the Pirates to win the next series against the Nats.
they flippin better
Or they may find themselves 10 games under .500 by Memorial Day
by BadAndy on May 15, 2011 10:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Great, but
Think long-term vs short term for a minute. The Pirates are going nowhere this year, so it doesn’t really matter how they do vs. Washington this week.
Until the Pirates start doing better against their Division rivals, whom they play somewhere around15-18 times per year, they will never improve. Milwaukee is a Division rival. They may beat the Nats, but that’s,what, 6-7 games per year?
No, long-term improvement will only show when they stop going 3-15 against teams like Milwaukee every year. That has to start happening this year.
to be fair
We did take 3 out of 4 from Cincy earlier this year, and 2 out of 3 from Chicago, so I think it’s less of a “division rivals” issue than simply a “Milwaukee” issue. I don’t know what it is, but our guys just seem completely defeated from the moment they enter Miller Park.
we also won the series against the Cardinals. weve also shown the Cubs and and the Stros that we are better now
The brewers and the marlins beat us in their own ballparks. thats been the only real drubbings thus far.
Divison Rivals
The Pirates are 0-5 against Milwaukee.
They’re 9-4 against the rest of the NL Central.
As Garrett122 says, so far this year it’s not a “Division rivals” issue, it’s a “Milwaukee” issue.
IMO, its a miller park issue
we’re not a good hitting team and thats a good hitting park, despite what others may think…
proof? JJ Hardy.
18-22 just like last year
Hopefully they dont just quit like last year but this team is basically the same talent wise.
I’d much much rather watch Bowker instead of Over the hill bay, the starters have done better but besides Morton, there’s nothing pretty there and regression thru out the year is a real possibility.
Tabata and Alvarez have looked lost, if Tabata’s swoon last a week longer, I’d be thinking a swap of he and pressley may be in order until he rights his ship along with seeing what presley has to offer
Presley for Tabata ain't happenin'...
Presley in RF however? That’s possibility.
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