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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

In defense of Dave Littlefield

Jim Callis of Baseball America on the selection of Brian Bullington (in response to a question about choosing Danny Hultzen: 

    People don't remember this, because then-GM David Littlefield called Bullington a No. 3 starter on draft day, but Bullington was as good as any prospect not named Upton in that 2002 draft. He had a 92-96 mph fastball, a hard slider, good command and a good frame. We ranked Bullington as the third-best prospect that year (behind Upton and Kazmir), and we have Hultzen as the third-best this year. If Rendon and Cole were at their best, to me, I'd take them over Hultzen. But it's hard to use that No. 1 pick on someone not at their best, so that puts Hultzen into the discussion. He has a little less velo and size than Bullington, but he's a lefty who had more polish and a deeper repertoire.

Hultzen anyone? PS, my next door neighbor said that Dave was a great little league parent.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.

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I will say this about DL

he did try to build up the pitching, but failed miserably at it. For a scout he had no idea how to judge talent

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." Wes Westrum
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on May 23, 2011 6:36 PM EDT reply actions  

true

imagine if any of burnett, bullington, van benschoten, oilver perez, or kip wells had any kind of sustained success. Littlefield made a LOT of dumb mistakes, but he was also very unlucky (which was probably for the better, since it got him out of here faster…)

by titanlord91 on May 24, 2011 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

plus duke, gorzo, snell, etc

bad luck on lincoln’s injury, vogelsong being worthless, etc, etc…

lots of bad luck. also lots of bad evaluations. interesting to consider, nonetheless…

by titanlord91 on May 24, 2011 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

That lack of sustained success can be blamed on Littlefield too — well, mainly his managers and farm directors for not limiting innings or keeping precise pitch counts. Also, “No one walks to the majors”.

Thank you Ned Colletti.

by ryebr3ad on May 24, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Littlefield BLOWS

We didn’t even sign kids out of Latin America and had no director of scouting there

by VoteforPedro on May 24, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

wasnt in the budget, and DL wasnt in charge of the monies

im not defending Littlefield, just stating an obvious truth

by white angus on May 25, 2011 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's the duty of the GM to make a convincing case to the person who does control the money.

For some reason, as soon as Coonelly and Huntington came on board, the draft strategy changed considerably.

by MarkInDallas on May 25, 2011 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously you are unaware that nutting secretly pulled the strings for many many years. I believe he has been the puppet master for about 3 decades now.

Put on your dancin' shoes.

by PensFan024 on May 26, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rendon, please.

Thank you.

We have to unify and watch our flag ascend!

by C Shint on May 23, 2011 6:51 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on May 25, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rendon

Game.

Should the Pirates keep Neal Huntington?

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2011/5/16/2174135/poll-should-huntington-be-retained

by Kosstic518 on May 23, 2011 6:53 PM EDT reply actions  

+1 again

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on May 25, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

the fact there is a comparison between hultzen and bullington is reason enough NOT to pick him. Littlefield was freakin awful. They will pick rendon or cole. Huntington is all about upside. Wouldnt be surprised if they took Bundy

by JJDURNEY88 on May 23, 2011 7:27 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

"Bullington was as good as any prospect not named Upton in that 2002 draft."

That’s all well and good, but since the Pirates had the first pick in the draft, there is no way they should have gone with anyone but the best talent unless they had a signed and notarized letter from said player and his agent stating, “if you bitches draft me, I’m going to college.”

Littlefield had a hard-on for college pitchers because he felt they could get to the majors faster, when really all it meant is that their arms were worn out by managers who didn’t give a crap if the pitchers had a future, just that they won games in college.

by Bishop1973 on May 23, 2011 8:04 PM EDT reply actions  

I like your metaphors

I also like your analysis

Viva Clemente!

by Roberto on May 23, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

i know alot of college pitchers are looked down upon because of their innings pitched, but high school pitchers should also be under scrutiny for the same exact reason

plus try on this tidbit: training facilities/programs for college athletics are far superior to high schools. high school baseball teams in my area dont have anything to help a talent progress easier to the next levels. my high school didnt even have an outfield fence.

sure college pitchers have thrown alot of innings. but usually they throw about the same amount their first year in the pros, give or take of course. i know some will now say its not the actual number, but how they were used. but why is it more of a problem than say a high school pitcher? i know there are more college games than high school, this is true. but from what ive seen in most high school programs, the level of training is pretty poor. once again, im talking about schools in my area, not exactly a hotbed of baseball.

by white angus on May 24, 2011 9:02 AM EDT reply actions  

Heh.

Many years ago (1980 or so) I covered a team that made the Pa. state tournament. They had a Nuke Laloosh type pitcher who pitched a complete game for them and won the opener (Monday). They lost the next day (Tuesday), so the day after (Wednesday) they brought Nuke back to start Game 3, and he pitched a complete game and won. They were in the loser’s bracket so they had to play a second game that day, and when the game was in peril around the fifth, sixth inning his coach brought Nuke in to pitch. The game went extra innings. I think Nuke ended up with four innings in that game, but by the end he was clearly gassed and had nothing on his fastball. His team lost.

That was bad enough, but at least his coach was trying to win something.

The far worse thing was, knowing all this, this kid’s Legion coach started him on Saturday. Can you believe it?

Kid had scouts looking at him, but not after he (surprise!) hurt his arm.

by bucdaddy on May 24, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

its true that lots of conferences in high school do limit pitchers innings, but im not buying it for the most part

you have summer league teams, travel teams, fall leagues, allstar tournaments… plus kids get together to play all the time. its almost impossible to track what a kid is doing on the mound during his high school years. i should know, i was one of them, and i know things have not changed that much in the years since.

by white angus on May 24, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

…plus kids get together to play all the time.

This does not happen anymore.

Put on your dancin' shoes.

by PensFan024 on May 25, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

They don’t play stick ball in the street in Brooklyn anymore?

by MarkInDallas on May 25, 2011 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

with a baseball made of electrical tape?

by MarkInDallas on May 25, 2011 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

im not talking sandlot, dude

i see high school kids playing all the time at the local high school every summer. not real games, but more than just practice.

by white angus on May 26, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe it just depends on where we live. I grew up across the street from Mt. Lebanon’s baseball fields and never saw anything but organized ball. Which was fine by me cause I had a pitching machine and the batting cages were always empty.

Put on your dancin' shoes.

by PensFan024 on May 26, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Here's the issue:

If you’re playing in college, you’ve already had your arm abused in travel teams, summer ball, legion, etc. Then you go to college and get it beat up more again. Either way, you’re getting the same abuse in HS. It’s a matter of how it’s handled after that.

The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.

by glass0941 on May 25, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

"my high school didnt even have an outfield fence."

So – “free-range” angus, eh?

Ahead of your time, to be sure.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on May 24, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bullington is a good example...

…of why, all else being equal, you take the guy with several years’ worth of plus velocity over the college guy whose stuff suddenly bumped up during his draft year. Pitchers will sometimes mysteriously gain a few MPH for a year, and when that happens they often lose it just as mysteriously before the next season. For a Pirate-specific example of this phenomenon in action, look at Justin Reid in 2004.

by Vlad on May 24, 2011 9:46 AM EDT reply actions  

Something for the Hultzen fans...

to pay attention to maybe?

#AllTheBuntsAreBad!

by Slick1 on May 24, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would be lying if I said that it wasn’t at the back of my mind.

by Vlad on May 24, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

IIRC, the main culprit behind the Bullington selection was McClatchy who wanted a college guy

in the majors in short order, and not a HS guy. I believe the scouts made it clear they believed Upton to be the best prospect on their board. This is not to give a free pass to DL, thought, who screwed up one thing after the other during his tenure.

パトリック

by patthatt on May 24, 2011 10:24 AM EDT reply actions  

it was also a money decision, as was Moskos, A. Ramirez and Schmidt.

by insane_sanity on May 24, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think its hard

to be critical of the GMs. Bonifay, Littlefield and now Huntingdon have done what? The results indicated that they all suck but I still feel they were hand cuffed by ownership

by eihcir on May 25, 2011 4:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Of course you do.

I would expect nothing less.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on May 25, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

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