Pirates 9, Orioles 3: Offense Finally Comes For Bucs
It wasn't a particularly good start for James McDonald, who needed about a million pitches to get through the first four innings. The Pirates had a 5-0 lead by the time Clint Hurdle sent McDonald out to pitch the fifth. Given the lead and the fact that Charlie Morton only got through a couple innings yesterday, I could understand why Hurdle did that, but given McDonald's earlier shakiness and the fact that he tends to fall apart pretty early in his starts anyway, I thought the Pirates might be begging for trouble.
Sure enough, McDonald allowed a solo homer to J.J. Hardy (which admittedly might not have been a problem if a fan in the front row in left field hadn't Bartman'ed it from Jose Tabata - see above), then a single by Nick Markakis and a homer by Adam Jones. 5-3. After McDonald put a couple more runners on base, Hurdle finally replaced him with Chris Resop, who bailed McDonald out. The Bucs' bullpen then got through four more scoreless innings.
Meanwhile, the Bucs offense racked up 15 hits against Jeremy Guthrie and the O's, scoring five runs in the first three innings and then tacking on one more in the seventh and three more in the eighth. Jose Tabata, Josh Harrison, Neil Walker, Ronny Cedeno and Michael McHenry all had two hits apiece, as the Pirates probably used the best lineup they could have with the players they have available right now (with Garrett Jones at first, Harrison at third and Xavier Paul in right).
This game didn't reassure me regarding the starting pitching, which suddenly looks like it forgot to put on its bulletproof vest, and I'm beginning to get mildly annoyed with Harrison's defense at third - for the second straight day, he bungled a play when he tried to do this swiping-the-glove-upward thing. But hey, it's a win, and a convincing one, and the Pirates are back to within one game of .500.
***
My interview on David Todd's show might run tonight, or it might run tomorrow during the pregame. We'll see. ... Yeah, looks like it will be either pre- or postgame tomorrow.
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Just remember
With every slide there’ll be Pittsburgh pirde
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." Wes Westrum
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
Jones
Jones was a very loud 1-5 tonight.
Obviously his first at bat was fantastic. A shot clubbed to right-center to clear the bases. Exactly what we were looking for the, the thumper in our lineup who can deliver a big shot like that.
He also had another at bat that should of been for extra bases. Unfortunately, I can count on one hand the list of center fielders in baseball capable of making the play Adam Jones made to rob him (Our very own CF being another one of the rare athletic specimens.)
His other three at bats, no strikes out, and for the most part, very hard hit balls, two of them two the warning track that looked very good coming off the bat.
I’m really hoping he can keep that kind of lift on the ball and being the clubber we need in this lineup with Pedro still sideline… and continue to do so when Pedro gets back. His swing and overall approach definitely looks drastically improved from what we saw early on in the season with the Garrett Jones that was found in the Clint Hurdle doghouse.
I think I speak for everyone when I saw Jones is a guy we are all rooting for and hope can become a solid threat again.
Yeah, that catch by Adam Jones was tremendous. Garrett Jones looked great today.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jun 21, 2011 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep Charlie is .....
gonna air today. Check out these three catches. Two were by A. Jones and Cutch on the same day.
http://www.wpgb.com/pages/extrainnings.html?article=8651440
The Hammer Speaks
Extra Innings
Twitter: @DTonPirates and @hammerspeaks
Typos
Sorry, tons of typos in that post. Should be much better writing seeing how I’m a journalism major. Oh, well….
by Zach Buccos on Jun 21, 2011 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
wel, your a journalism major, not a grammar or typing major. . .
so it’s cool. Substance over form my man, that’s why there’s editors.
Everything that guy just said is bullshit . . .thank you
proof reading
that’s what interns are for
by PuncSpeedChunk on Jun 21, 2011 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
which he and I will be at some point
that paper is screwed when I’m an intern
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." Wes Westrum
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Jun 21, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm a big fan
I admit it. Great story, and seems like a very nice guy. Folks have told me he is one of the hardest working guys on the team. I want to pull for him, and I would love to see him keep doing this.
"Throw strikes, but don't give him anything good to hit."
by RichieHebner on Jun 22, 2011 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Meaning GFJ
My replies always end up in the wrong place.
"Throw strikes, but don't give him anything good to hit."
by RichieHebner on Jun 22, 2011 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions
76-86
Book it. .500 or better next year and then we’ll go from there.
Everything that guy just said is bullshit . . .thank you
If we get Alvarez back and contributing after the All-Star break,
improve the bench with a return of Pearce, and get a solid Doumit-like final 3 months from our oft-injured C, then we might have a real nice record, especially coming off a shithole 2010 campaign.
パトリック
I predicted an 8-4 win so I feel pretty good about this.
Maybe it’s about time to do some more gambling in Wheeling.
パトリック
Or, maybe it's about time you predict 8-4 wins more often.
Everything that guy just said is bullshit . . .thank you
I wonder if Wood might start the next few games at 3rd
Harrison is starting to look a little exposed at third and he doesn’t really provide enough offense to make up for it.
Also – WTF was Cedeno thinking on that bases loaded bunt? I kinda like Ronny personally, but the dude is out there sometimes…
Somebody please....
answer this. Why the hell is Ronny fixated on bunting when we have guys on third? Seriously, that was so incredibly…..
well, if anybody has an answer please share it with me.
The Hammer Speaks
Extra Innings
Twitter: @DTonPirates and @hammerspeaks
dtodd
Ronny Cedeno’s just not the brightest bulb in the bunch. I think there’s probably days he wakes up and has to be reminded he’s a millionaire player for the Pittsburgh Pirates.
That being said, I don’t see anyone else out there that we can afford who is demonstrably better than him this year, and maybe the next. We need to get D’Arnaud up in the second half and work him into some games here and there and find out if he can handle the backup job first, and then maybe the full-time one at some point in ’12.
パトリック
As much as some people don't like Cedeno,
who could we find that’s better? And his option I believe is for $3 million next year. I bet he’ll be our SS for at least that long, and he has done some darn good things on D.
I love it when we get a decent prospect at AAA and so many start clamoring for CHANGE! D’Arnaud has a long ways to go once he gets to Pgh. to even prove he can play a bit in the majors, let alone supplant Cedeno.
パトリック
Cedeno's option...
starts climbing once he makes 140 starts this season. If he makes 150 starts, it goes to $5M. He’s started 66 of 73 (74 after today), which would put him at 144 starts over a full season, and a $4M option.
so if they sit him more over the second half
so that he does not reach that benchmark, will the fan base whine and moan like they did a few years ago when it looked like they were benching Freddy Sanchez so that he didn’t reach a contractual milestone?
It’s not like Cedeno is producing, at least offensively, anywhere near the level Sanchez was. His play will determine the number of starts. And if he doesn’t start using his head, the manager will make sure he doesn’t start 140 games.
lol i was kinda playing the devils advocate there
i doubt too many people are concerned over ronny getting his benefits
I might be all right with the team bringing Ronny WTF back for another year
3 million, but not at 4 or 5.
パトリック
Just a regular day off...
or is Hurdle sending a message to Cedeno? Wood starting at SS today. Hurdle had indicated that Cedeno’s bunt attempt was NOT called from the bench, but on his own.
Langosch just tweeted...
There is correlation between Cedeno not in lineup and him trying to bunt with bases full last night: “Good day to regain focus,” Hurdle said
I kinda called it last night....
the benching, that is…
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 22, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
My new nickname for Ronny is WTF?
at least once in every gamethread Ronny has a play that makes 3 or 4 guys post WTF?
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
Was at the game tonight...
I go to a lot of games, but have rarely been there with a crowd of 30,000+. It actually wasn’t a good experience at all. They just have no idea how to control fans when the game is going on. There was just a constant stream of people in the aisles during the action, and constantly people standing up in front of me to let others through. I missed about half the action just struggling to see around people. I don’t know how it goes at other baseball stadiums, but it’s nothing like that at other sporting events in town.
+1
I was there too. This plus the heat were really putting off my dad, as he gets easily annoyed. I had a great time otherwise though, even if the crappy hot dogs I ate gave me heartburn…
As far as the fans just getting up and blocking your view whenever they want to, I know there’s an actual rule at hockey games that the ushers try to enforce, that you can only get up and walk the aisles to get out of your seat when play is stopped. At baseball games, at least Pirates games, there’s a “suggestion”, but I don’t think there are nearly enough ushers there to actually enforce it even if they wanted to. So with a big crowd you pretty much just have to deal with it.
I think that is pretty standard at baseball games. Basketball and hockey both have ushers at all rows that hold foot traffic while action is in progress. I’ve been to the old Bush, new and old Yankee stadiums, and Dodger stadium and don’t recall ever seeing anyone doing crowd control.
They don't let you walk down between batters
at Citizen’s Bank Park in Philly. Beyond that I have no recollection of the policies of the other stadiums I’ve attended
by OctaShields on Jun 22, 2011 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
San Francisco's ushers also hold traffic during pitches
In Dodger stadium, the ushers are too afraid of being shanked.
SF has it right
not only do the Giants have ushers everywhere to monitor stuff like that; they have people to monitor the ushers ! (I have 2 friends who do this). Makes for an amazingly enjoyable experience for everyone: if you buy a ticket, your’e treated like royalty. Part of the reason the Giants attendance is what it is (which is great)
"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente
Yeah, that’s true. Especially since where I was there was a passed out guy that had to get carried out on a stretcher. I had cops standing in my view of the plate for almost 2 innings. Which was nowhere near the guy, by the way. However, it was nice to see a huge turnout, and a loud, electric atmosphere.
As far as the game went, who told Cutch to bunt in the first? You don’t bunt when you’re mid rally, with your best hitter batting. And the Harrison play was bad, but so was XP’s complete misread of a fly ball to give Guthrie a double. XP has not been very good. He had a nice, BABIP influenced start with the team, but he’s just not very good. He shouldn’t be starting, at least.
by thecheeseisblue on Jun 21, 2011 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Cutch was trying to bunt for a hit there
I guarantee it. Because of that he shouldn’t have gotten a sac bunt, but then the official scorer was pretty bad tonight. There should have been at least two errors called that weren’t. In fact, I was so adamant about one that I put it on my scorecard even after they officially announced it (The first Harrison misplay on a Mark Reynolds hit ball)
Another one...
I really don’t know why the Guthrie double was scored as it was. That play is almost always made by a starting major league right fielder. Paul just judged it horribly and his footing got a little messed up, too. It really wasn’t a terribly tough play to make and I feel like it should of been an error.
by Zach Buccos on Jun 21, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Well...
Honestly, I can see that being less of an error than the play I mentioned and the other one I didn’t, that being the Tabata ball that went for a double that Adam Jones misplayed that let him move to second.
On a line drive right at an outfielder like that, one misstep and the ball is not going to be caught. Paul broke in for a step, and by the time he recovered the ball was not going to be caught. In that situation, especially since he never actually touched the ball, an error is almost never going to be called. You see it all the time, a fielder takes a bad route, breaks slightly one way and has to adjust and can’t catch up with the ball and it drops. Official scorers just don’t call those errors, even if they could have conceivably been caught.
My issue with the double call there was that had Paul not lost his footing, he would’ve been able to make the catch even with the misstep. Personally my view on errors is that if the player in question should/would have made the play had they not committed some type of unforced error, then it should be ruled an error. In this case, since Paul lost his footing because of the misstep, which caused him to miss the ball, that should be an error. Same with the Harrison miss, he should just block the ball and get it into the glove, not try to make a fancy upward swipe to get on Top 10 plays in the morning.
Same here. Luckily my family and I happened to be in LF just on the left side of the foul pole, so there weren’t too many other fans walking up and down the edge aisle, but I could see that there were a number of people unaware of the general rule to try your best not to stand up and move around during innings. I’ve been to games in Cincy and Detroit and there’s the same issue in both of those ballparks as well, though to a lesser extent than tonight here.
yep
i was in pnc for a Mets game coupla weeks back. It was horrible, with people walking in or out whenever they felt like. It hurts that a lot of people don’t care about the team or game much right now, and treat the ancillary experience as more important.
by BurgherKing on Jun 22, 2011 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
had a lady in front of me keep standing up in the 1st inning for every single hit by the mets……
and she was obscuring the runners on the base when they got hits….
Complained to ushers…then she just started talking and complaining about other fans standing or what not.
Now I don’t mind standing for homeruns or inning ending plays….but when runners are running around the bases and i can’t see….that’s utterly annoying.
nothing a quick kick in the ass wouldn't resolve
"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente
Post All-Star Break
Let’s say after we resume from after the all-star break and were at pretty around .500 plus/minus 1 game. In this hypothetical, but not totally out of this world scenario were about 4 games back in the division, and about the same in the wild card.
Our lineup looks like this
C-Doumit (fingers crossed)
1B-? (clusterfuck)
2B-Walker
3B-Alvarez (fingers crossed… at least shortly after the break)
SS-Cedeno (upgrade needed)
LF-Tabata
CF-McCutchen
RF-? (clusterfuck)
Our bench:
McKenry (his defense alone is worth keeping him around as a backup)
Harrison (Once Pedro gets healthy, he’ll be the solid backup/utility guy he’ meant to be)
So that leaves first base:
What happens there? It’s a total clusterfuck. If Jones keeps hitting well, the logical consensus would be to keep him there, but I feel like the front office isn’t going to let Overbay $5 million slow bat rot away on the bench. Plus, he’s apparently been a “second half hitter.” What about Steve Pearce, what do we do with him? He was hitting well before he got injured and definitely is a guy I’d like to see get a shot if he can stay consistently healthy. So that leaves three guys vying for time at first. WHAT’S YOUR ANSWER?
Next, right field:
What happens there? Again, another complete clusterfuck of a situation. You initially had the Jones/Diaz platoon but that became a failed experiment. Jones is obviously starting to see more playing time, especially at first with Overbay’s struggling bat, but he’s certainly still an option to start out there if he isn’t playing first. Diaz obvious has gotten a few starts thrown his way when the pitching matchup calls for it, but then there’s the X-Man, who has made this so very confusing. He’s hit solid, much better then expected at around .270 and if he gets on base, he’s a threat on the basepath’s, which we all know Hurldle loves, but let’s be real, as someone alluded to earlier in this thread, he’s had a very nice BABIP influenced start and will probably start to see a decline in his offensive production. Still, as long as he continues to be serviceable, he’ll keep getting starts. Oh, and I forgot about Alex Presley, seemingly sentenced to Indianapolis without parole. Logically speaking, he should eventually be called up and is capable of playing there, too. So that leaves another handful of guys capable of playing one position. WHAT’S YOUR ANSWER?
Next is Shortstop:
We need an upgrade at shortstop. If a team in contention needs a backup shortstop who can come in late in games as a defensive replacement, Ronny would be great at that role, but that’s not the role he’s playing for our hovering around .500 team, he’s our starter. I would still love to have him on our bench as a backup. It would seem that the hope would be we can bring up Chase and he can become our everyday shortstop, but will he be able to step in and contribute right away? Do we make a trade? Who knows. WHAT’S YOUR ANSWER?
Starting Pitching:
Correia
Maholm
Morton
Karstens
????
So what do we do about that 5th spot in the rotation. Let’s be real, McDonald has issues that none of us want to see be worked out as a starter. Do we move him to the bullpen? Demote him? If either of those happen, who do we call up… Lincoln? Owens? Wilson? WHAT’S THE ANSWER?
Sorry, I know this was a long post, I’m just curious to know what you guys think about these holes and question marks in our roster.
For me, I’d vote with splitting time between Overbay, Jones and Pearce at 1st, with Overbay getting ~3 or 4 games a week, Jones and Pearce splitting the rest. Then Pearce can also get in a start at 3rd every week to give Alvarez(agreed, fingers crossed) a break, and Jones can split the remaining time with Paul in RF, with Diaz coming in on occasion.
At SS, I say we stick with Ronny for the time being unless D’Arnaud shows himself as simply too good in the minors to leave him there. Either way we should call up Chase in September.
As for the rotation, don’t forget about the possibility of an Ohlie return, which could really mess things up too. In any case, I think that Charlie(assuming his issues are indeed an overwork problem and the day off Sunday gets him back to normal) and Correia should be there the rest of the season, as should Paul(assuming he’s not traded). Karstens should stay because he’s been, quite frankly, awesome in nearly all of his starts, and has proven himself deserving of it. That last spot is tentatively McDonald’s unless he continues to struggle like this through the ASB. If that’s the case I would probably vote for calling up Lincoln and demoting McDonald just for a short stretch to see if he can work out the kinks in AAA.
You answered your own questions by simply inserting Doumit and Alvarez into the lineup. No lineup is going to be picture perfect 1-8, but having a solid 5 hitters is good enough to be better than what we are now. Dont get me wrong i think we make a trade, but by gettting Doumit and Alvarez back we are basically upgraded without losing anything. So you roll with what you have at 1b (Jones, Overbay, Wood, Pearce, Hague?) , RF (XP, Jones, Diaz, Presley?) and SS (Cedeno, Wood, D’Arnaud?).
As for the pitching, with rest coming for Morton and a doubleheader soon? (thought i heard this in post game) Hurdle will be needing another starter from AAA, most likely it should be Lincoln. You then let Lincoln get a few starts running with a six man rotation? or resting guys around off days so Lincoln gets enough rest but is filling in for a new starter here and there?
Also lets not be so quick to just write McDonald off yet.
We have to unify and watch our flag ascend!
I read Morton is going to the DL and Lincoln is being called up. Maybe it’s his turn to seize the moment.
by StripesForLife on Jun 22, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
where did you read that?
I know He’s being skipped for a turn and Mcdonald’s pitching on 4 days rest (ugh). They’re calling Morton just general shoulder fatigue so until I hear otherwise…..
I think I'm wrong
I thought someone (beat writer or media personal) tweeted it yesterday before or during the game, but nobody else is saying that.
by StripesForLife on Jun 22, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Ohlendorf, Lincoln or Wilson
will be in the rotation before the end of the year.
"Throw strikes, but don't give him anything good to hit."
by RichieHebner on Jun 22, 2011 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I really like McDonald, I think he has some great stuff but he hasn’t really put it all together. I do see him as piece of this team down the road, whether it is as a starter or a reliever. It may be just me but he kind of reminds me of Veras if Veras was a starter. He’s got great stuff who can easily strike out the side in one inning, and walk the bases load on 12 pitches in the next.
by PuncSpeedChunk on Jun 21, 2011 11:52 PM EDT reply actions
Sorry
should be under Zach Buccos long post
by PuncSpeedChunk on Jun 21, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
But as I said in the game throw, we already have the “Feast or Famine” role occupied in the bullpen with Veras, and we don’t need two guys with that role. We need more consistency then that.
by Zach Buccos on Jun 22, 2011 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Random tidbits from AAA
Ascanio in 3 appearances since his demotion = 2 1/3 IP 0H 0BB 6K
Garrett Olson in 4 starts = 16 1/3 IP 3!H 1 ER 4 BB 17K (maybe we should call him up as our long man or maybe he should get that DH start over Lincoln)
Crotta made his second scoreless appearance on his rehab stint. I wonder if he replaces Wood soon.
Hague 6-8 last 2 days, Avg. up to .313
Hague 6-8 last 2 days, Avg. up to .313
i have been lobbying for him on this site for awhile…
I really am interested in what he could do at first base in the major leagues. I have seen him play defense a few times and he looks pretty solid ( too lazy to look up UZR or FP%)
i want hague called up and overbay gone
age of last winning season: 5
Olson
I m starting to get really interested in what he can do as a starter… keep him there for 4-6 weeks more and you should have a better idea… he looked decent in limited time in Pitt… and we are a bit short on LHSP that we can call up, with Wilson stinking up the joint
by BurgherKing on Jun 22, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
its Leroux... i think Laroux is his sister
by white angus on Jun 22, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions

I’ve been rooting for him to make it so we can start calling him Bulletproof.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Jun 22, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
carp
Meant to include this picture:

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Jun 22, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
heh
you guys might like this one, anyone have thoughts on acquiring Casey Kotchman from the Rays?
We have to unify and watch our flag ascend!
the Rays wont deal him
he’s started off hotter than ever, but the Rays have quite a big hole at 1B…
by BurgherKing on Jun 22, 2011 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
On another note...
Is anyone else falling in love with Watson?
i like him
alot better then MOSKOS if we have to keep one when biemel gets back
age of last winning season: 5
i'm a little disappointed he didnt get a shot as a starter in AAA
he had a good end to last year iirc as a starter in AA. He also seems to have a good changeup, so he could have a shot if stamina isnt an issue
by BurgherKing on Jun 22, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Two Final Notes About Last Night
Damn, those ‘71 throwbacks looked good, and for the rest of the season, I’d like to see those used as the Sunday uniform. Glad to see the club dispose of those black pinstripes from previous years on Sundays.
Lastly, there is some unfinished business about the 1971 World Champs. Danny Murtaugh belongs in the Hall of Fame, let’s give the man the respect he deserves. His credentials are definitely Cooperstown worthy, he won as many world titles as Bobby Cox and Whitey Herzog. Let’s not forget the Bucs were underdogs in both 1960/1971, and Murtaugh was managing against two HOF managers in those Fall Classics. His fine winning percentage is in the middle of managers already in Cooperstown, and Murtaugh’s postseason frequency is one of the best since 1969. His rating is superior to Walter Alston, Sparky Anderson, Dick Williams, and Leo Durocher. He also fielded the first lineup card of nine black players, which was actually a big deal in 1971.
Health issues prevented Murtaugh from more wins, and possibly titles during his tenure as Bucs’ skipper. Hopefully, the Veterans Committee will see the light, and put Danny Murtaugh in Cooperstown.
Damn, those ‘71 throwbacks looked good, and for the rest of the season, I’d like to see those used as the Sunday uniform.
That would be great! I love the mustard hats and the triple stripe on the sleeves.
I like the all-black tops this year too, especially with the Tanner star, but the ’71 jerseys are awesome.
Thing is, that uniform
only looks right in a pullover. It was designed as a unibody, with the black and old gold neck, sleeve and waist stripes providing accent. They did a mock-up in 1969 with buttons, and it didn’t look right.
"Throw strikes, but don't give him anything good to hit."

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