In Late June, Pittsburgh Still Excited About The Pirates
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jun 23, 2011 1:37 AM EDT
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Joe Starkey has a good column on what the Pirates' improved play has meant for the city so far this year:
" Pirates television ratings on Root Sports are up 34 percent from last season and are at their highest levels since June 2005.
" Sports apparel stores are reporting ridiculously large increases in Pirates-related sales from the same point last season. That includes a 46 percent spike at Hometowne Sports — where the $19.99 Walker T-shirt is most popular — and a 51 percent increase at The Pittsburgh Fan, across from PNC Park. Anne Ronan, spokesperson for The Finish Line stores, was not permitted to disclose figures but said, "(Pirates) apparel is selling at a rapid clip even in areas not Pittsburgh proper, like Johnstown."
" Attendance is up 12 percent, with three sellouts expected this weekend against the Boston Red Sox. "Weekends like this," Walker said, "are going to be really important for growing the fan base."
" Merchandise sales at PNC Park are up 32 percent, page views on the Pirates website 41 percent.
I'll add that May 2011 was Bucs Dugout's biggest month ever, despite May not usually being a particularly big month - the biggest are usually April (which is typically the last time fans have much confidence in the Pirates), June (which has the draft) and July and August (which surround the trading deadline). June 2011 is going to annihilate May - we've already had 40,000 more page views than we had last month, and there's an entire week left to go.
Starkey focuses on the Pirates' record as the reason for the resurgence in fan interest, and he's surely right to do so, as that's the easiest and most convenient way to indicate improvement, and the metric the fans focus on the most. But I think there's also the fact that this team looks different. They still make their share of mistakes, but there's little of the Bad-News-Bears vibe the Pirates typically emanate.
If you go to PNC for a game and you see Lastings Milledge running the bases like a chicken with his head off, or Adam LaRoche looking bored while going 0-for-4 with three strikeouts, or Charlie Morton or Ian Snell throwing complete cookies for opposing batters to smack over the Clemente Wall, or Ronny Paulino completely flubbing yet another throw from home, or Jeromy Burnitz jogging down to first, you probably aren't going to feel particularly good about coming back to the park, whether the team ended up winning the game or not. (And yeah, I feel bad about including a decent player in LaRoche in that group, but his April failures were a big part of what made some earlier editions of the team hard to watch.)
This year, they're playing much better defense. They're pitching better. They look alert and competent. It's no surprise that wins have come along with that.
But there's also the fact that one reason we like sports is because they appeal to us on an aesthetic level - we like to see great athletes do things well. Not only do the Pirates now have a guy in Andrew McCutchen who is the most aesthetically-appealing baseball player to suit up for the Bucs in decades, but they're also surrounding him with players who at least aren't aesthetically objectionable. Even putting aside the results for a second, that makes the games a lot more fun to watch than they were even a year ago.
Clint Hurdle probably deserves a fair amount of credit for that - I don't always agree with him tactically, but I can't remember a Pirates team that looked as focused as the 2011 edition does. I don't think this is a contending team, and I'm not even sure this is a .500 team, but I do think that as a group, these guys are worthy of the name on the fronts of their jerseys, and it's been a long time since I felt I could say that.
* * *
I'm heading to Ontario in the morning to visit friends and will be back at the end of the weekend. I'll still be checking in, but updates may be a little less timely than usual.
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Very encouraging signs
Don’t live in Pittsburgh anymore, but the massive increase in TV ratings and merchandise sales indicate the hope people have for this storied franchise. Imagine what excitement would be happening if the club is still near .500 at the end of July?
Asking this club to improve 24 games from 2010 may still be too much, but stranger things have happened, and belief is a powerful force. The Bucs are even receiving praise and respect from the national media for exceeding expectations.
even pirate haters are watching
i work with a guy who hates on me for going to games, but yesterday he posted on facebook about the team, people are coming around
Bandwagon Jumpers
Me and other Pirate Fans have been following this team thru winning and losing – The problem we have with bandwagon jumpers is that when we were losing for 18 years, they ridiculed us for even supporting and watching the Pirates – It seems fair to us all that we are given the chance to make fun of them for being fair-weather fans
by Steeler Y360 Nation on Jun 23, 2011 4:17 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Fraternity-style hazing. Also, call them out on their shit.
Thank you Ned Colletti.
by ryebr3ad on Jun 23, 2011 5:58 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
meh
I don’t understand the point of ridiculing people for being fair-weather fans… we’re all on the same team here, just be glad that people are taking an interest… welcome everyone into the circle… I mean, the pirates who have never had a winning season as long as my younger brothers have been alive… if any franchise in pro sports has deserved its fan base to be fair-weathered in the last generation, it’s the pirates…
by Captain Easychord on Jun 23, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
because a great deal of those fair-weather fans have been anti-everything pirate in the last decade or so...
they whine, bitch, complain about everything Bucco, especially at the FO. now with the team playing much better, they jump on board like they knew all along that the pirates were moving on up.
schitzophrenia exists, gentlemen. and she is living in the Burgh.
by white angus on Jun 23, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
This. If people were indifferent and then became fans, then I’m cool with them.
For those that I know were causing me grief over the last few years but now have Bucco Fever, screw ’em.
Thank you Ned Colletti.
Don't forget
You predicted the Bucs would go 47-115 before the season started.
by primetime99 on Jun 23, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
there's a big difference
Between predicting a losing season and hating on the team.
No one’s saying that bandwagon fans are bad because they thought the team would be bad. That’s ridiculous. The team was bad, and all metrics pointed to them being bad again.
The reason that they’re annoying is that (some) bandwagon fans ridicule those of us who enjoy and support the team even when they were bad.
BIG difference.
I can see this, but at the same time I see a lot of people who would be at bars and whatnot, if they game was on, and the Pirates started looking like they were staging a come back, that hope started coming back. I don’t necessarily think that it’s people not giving a damn but rather tired of being hurt and disappointed.
But ya, there are definitely assholes out there though who are playing the “I knew it the whole time” card.
again, this is all deserved… hell, in the last decade, I’ve been pretty much anti-most of what the pirates have done… I disagreed with the aramis ramirez trade, the leo nunez trade, the matt morris trade, taking bryan bullington and danny moskos over bj upton and matt weiters (respectively), the rule 5 draft debacle, the reported decisions to reject trades like jack wilson for jair jurrjens, not to mention countless other deck-shuffling moves the team has made involving the likes of randall simon…
for the most part, people who have been down on the pirates for the last decade have been EXACTLY RIGHT… so if you want to hold that against them, well that’s up to you… but if you’re more interested in shitting on new pirates fans than you are in growing the fanbase, I think you’re crazy… after all, it would be pretty shameful if only the 15,000 or so die-hards bothered to come out to the park when the team finally makes the playoffs…
by Captain Easychord on Jun 23, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s not my fault that morons can’t tell the difference between a salary dump and a legitimate trade. I certainly didn’t have a problem with doing that.
If these people want to be so cocksure but can’t even make intelligent comments about the draft or any of our prospects, I lose respect for them baseball-wise.
Also, I don’t care if they come to the games, and I also said I don’t care if they remained indifferent — but those who gave me grief for liking the team then are getting grief from me for all of a sudden liking them now.
Eye for an eye.
Thank you Ned Colletti.
I just had a conversation with a kid about this subject. He didn’t understand that sometimes teams will take your less than promising prospects who haven’t done much just to get rid of salary, like was our case with Snyder.
His response: “Well ya, but they should have tried getting better players.”
Brick. Wall.
The big problem with fair-weather fans
is that by definition they will be the first to jump off the bandwagon for the next shiny new thing that comes along (“Oooo, look! Penguins!”) as soon as things get tough again (and they will get tough; seems to me like most young teams on the climb have a setback season before they really reach contention).
It’s a character issue. Being a true fan is like a marriage: “For better, for worse; for richer, for poorer; in sickness and in health.” You endure the bad times because they make the good times that much sweeter. The fair-weather fan only agrees to the “For better, for richer, in health” parts. I might be glad to see them put their money into the team, but I will never, EVER, trust them. I certainly wouldn’t marry one.
I make exception for kids who have grown up never seeing a winning team and are just now getting interested in baseball.
by bucdaddy on Jun 23, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
"kids who have grown up never seeing a winning team and are just now getting interested in baseball."
that’s perhaps the biggest tragedy in the Pirates’ losing streak.
The Pirates have not had a winning season since I was two, and I think it that if they were a contending team throughout my lifetime, I would not be a baseball fan. I enjoy the statistics, and the depth of building a franchise, particularly rebuilding. I enjoy the games, and winning them, but as for final results, I could really care less. Except in the situation now, where I know all about every player in the organization from following all of the rebuilding.
I’m probably the exception to the rule, but I’m just saying there are a few of us drawn in by the rebuilding process. For me, it just took the new management and ownership to actually properly attempt a rebuild to get me interested in baseball.
by thecheeseisblue on Jun 23, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually
This sounds like a coping mechanism to me.
I mean, I agree that the rebuilding process has had some interest, but talking about which scrub AAA catcher we should acquire so that we don’t plummet towards .400 is inherently less interesting than debating whether Pence or Kemp would be better targets for our near-certain playoff run.
See, I would get bored with that. Acquiring another team’s players is not at all exciting to me. I like watching players develop from the lowest level and grow into contributors. I like being able to give playing to to projects and see if they pan out. If we had most of our positions filled, and were competing, that loses all of the intrigue for me. I want to see players develop. maybe I should be a fan of a perpetually rebuilding team like the Marlins then.
by thecheeseisblue on Jun 23, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
In theory, at least
The Pirates plan to be perpetually rebuilding. That’s what NH has always said – they’ll never have enough $$ to become a big payroll buyer of talent. Cutch and Walker (frex) may get extended, but Pedro and Tabata are ticketed for elsewhere. The current rotation is slated to be supplanted by the Altoona 4 and the Zacks, who will in turn be supplanted by Taillon, Cole, and Heredia, who will themselves be supplanted.
No guarantees, and there’s always the risk that “win now” becomes “mortgage the future”, but the current FO talks like they know the deal.
…it just took the new management and ownership to actually properly attempt a rebuild to get me interested in baseball.
I had lost a lot of interest until FC and NH were hired. I still rooted for them, but I had stopped investing so much time and energy into the bucs. Once new management came aboard and a solid rebuilding plan was put in place I jumped right back on the bandwagon.
Put on your dancin' shoes.
I’d definitely still be a fan if they were contenders throughout my lifetime, but I will say that all the losing has forced me to focus more on things like the minor leagues, the draft, player development, etc, and following those aspects of the rebuilding process has been extremely interesting and has certainly drawn me in as a fan.
Criticism by Fair Weather Fans
Agreed, I think it’s wrong for people to criticize loyal fans of the club at one time, and then turn around and jump on the bandwagon when the team improve. That’s stupid, and kind of like junk food, not really fulfilling.
I would say younger fans of the Pirates who have made an honest attempt to follow the team during all these years of losing, generally speaking, are slowly coming back to the fold in terms of support. It’s understandable that many younger fans would gravitate more to the Pens or Steelers, after experiencing so many years of defeat. I feel those younger fans who didn’t ridicule the diehard fans, always wanted to eventually be more involved, but the losing wore them down. Even for older fans like myself, my interest has been rejuvenated, and I was fortunate enough to have a ton of winning memories.
by SteelStealth on Jun 23, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Same here, it sort of ticks me off.
In college I’d see people with Pirates hats on and say “oh you’re a Pirates fan”, and they’d reply with “nah fuck the Pirates, I’m just representing Pittsburgh”. It boiled my blood every time!
In LA there are at least two or three gangs that use the Pirate P as their logo. It killed me I couldn’t walk up to people and talk shop with them because chances are, they didn’t care.
It's True
It’s a very little known fact that the P does not stand for Pittsburgh or Pirates but instead honors the pimpinest of OG’s, Honus Wagner.
by Aphthakid on Jun 23, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think it’s fitting they used the Pirates P for pimp instead of the Phillies.
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-Roberto
by blackjackfishtaco on Jun 23, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Funny
When I’ve worn a Pirates hat outside of Pittsburgh, I’ll get approached by usually ex-pat Pittsburghers who seem to be of the opinion that ONLY dedicated fans would wear a Pirates cap versus ’Guins or Steelers.
On a related note
Couple of weeks ago, I took the family to go see the Visalia Rawhide(Diamondbacks single A team). One of the ushers came up to me and asked me if I was a Pirate fan because I was wearing my Pirates cap. I said, yes, have been for over 30 years. He says to me “Gotta give you credit for hanging in there so long”. We continue to chit chat for a bit while I’m perusing the program. Lo and behold I see one of the coaches listed on there(Pitching Coach) listed as Doug Drabek. So I ask the usher if that’s the former Pirate pitcher and he says yes. Thought that was pretty cool.
In the case of bucsreport's proposal
would you rather be able to use it a lot, or not at all?
by Wizard of Woz on Jun 23, 2011 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
good writeup charlie
If you feel bad including Adam Laroche in that list, you could always switch him with his brother. I’ll never forget that blank stare on his face after he’d gotten both himself and Cutch tagged out at 3rd base, all because he just didn’t know the rules.
by gorillagogo on Jun 23, 2011 8:02 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
And
I the other half.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jun 23, 2011 9:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This is all good news...
The Pirates need the “fair weather” fans to get on the bandwagon. They are the ones who will help sign some of the core players long term. This site probably is representative of fans in general. I’m seeing a lot of new posters and that’s terrific. I would like to point out to some of the newbies though (and not just the newbies), we get it, your excited about the team. But can we please refrain from posting every single fantasy trade proposal that pops into your head? I can save you the time right here. Here’s a trade proposal we can all agree too: How about we take all of the players not good enough to crack our lineup in Pittsburgh <insert names like Lincoln, Presley, Crotta, Bowker, etc. here> and let’s trade them to another team, even if that team is in first place or is still in contention, who has a really good player or top propsect I like. Also, if all you guys have to say is that you are excited about how the team is doing, or you want to tell us all who you are going to root for next week, can you try to doing a fanshot next time please? The heavy volume of fanposts is pushing some other interesting ones off the front page. Just wanted to air a couple of pet peeves of mine, take them for what they are worth.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
Thanks
You saved me the time of posting the exact same thoughts.
Stupidity should be painful.
by wrecking_ball on Jun 23, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
Remember how everyone was talking about how success would bring more people to the ball park and more revenues? Where did people think that would come from, cloning the diehards?
Cue Neverett...
All clones attending this Saturday’s game against the Red Sox will receive a free kid-sized nehru jacket, courtesy of Big Boy restaurants.
I was walking my dog last night
and saw two little kids playing baseball in their front yard with their dad. They were wearing Pirates giveaway t-shirts and chanting “Buccos”…not let’s go Bucs or anything, just Buccos. It was very cool to see.
by KentuckyPirate on Jun 23, 2011 10:29 AM EDT reply actions
This awesome seeing the numbers and production. I lived in Los Angeles for the last eleven years, so it was hard to follow the Bucs during that time, what with the TV packages being a little too pricey and there not being free radio broadcasts all of the time. And when they would come to Dodger Stadium I wouldn’t go for fear of getting jumped (Big surprise right?) But now I’m back in Pittsburgh, for however long that may be, and I’m trying to make the most and go as much as possible.
Hurdle is a big reason for this team being better. When you have a confident coach and one who is passionate and actually knows what he is talking about, it rubs off on the team.
My dad and I have been saying this for years: Pittsburgh is a baseball team first and foremost. Screw the Steelers. If the Pirates win again, this city is going to blow up- it’ll be bigger than the Steelers and Penguins winning combined.
sorry li'l fella, but Pitt will continue to be Steel City no matter what the Pirates bring to the party
but i like your enthusiasm
by white angus on Jun 23, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know dude. The Pirates can outshine the other two teams if they can get there. I know this might be my personal disgust with football in general, but still.
i havent watched football in over a decade, so i hear ya brah
by white angus on Jun 23, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Bores me to tears.
Football, I mean, not you, angus.
I cant agree more
I always thought there was so much more talent needed for baseball over football.
by Joey Mooney on Jun 23, 2011 1:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
In my mind, there is a difference between athletic talent and skill, and the two aren’t very comparable. Football, and some other major sports like basketball, I feel are dominated by athletic prowess and ability. Other sports, like baseball, I feel are more skill oriented, which requires precision rather than athleticism. I would say things like baseball, tennis, and golf are skill sports, while football and basketball are athletic sports. And I really don’t think a skilled sport can be compared to an athletic sport to say one is more talented than the other. I feel like they’re just different types of talent.
by thecheeseisblue on Jun 23, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
this is completely true, cheese
Football, and some other major sports like basketball, I feel are dominated by athletic prowess and ability. Other sports, like baseball, I feel are more skill oriented, which requires precision rather than athleticism.
It’s the big reason why a #1 pick in the NFL or NBA is going to usually contribute right away — because athletic prowess or strength translates well between college and the pros. But the #1 pick in MLB isn’t even a given to MAKE the majors. It’s all precision.
There's nothing harder
than hitting a round ball with a round bat.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 23, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know
I seem to remember being very frustrated and digging up up chunks of grass trying to hit the little white dimpled ball with my 9 iron….
I should have been clearer:
There’s nothing harder than hitting a moving round ball with a round bat.
That said, I share your feelings about skulling a pitch shot all the way across the %&#king green…
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 23, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Nothing harder than hitting a baseball..unless...
you are trying to hit a moving disk…with a stick…while on ice skates.
speaking of which
Wakefield being considered for a start in the Red Sox series.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Jun 23, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Tough, for sure.
But the bat is round, as well as the ball.
Hockey stick = flat.
Don’t underestimate the enjoyment I get from hockey, and the utmost respect I have for anyone who can play it well (and also, you forgot about skating backwards!)
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 24, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I am praying for this lock out to stay put. My bottom line of thinking: $9 billion and growing a year and you idiots can’t figure out how to divide it up, you don’t deserve to do what you “love.”
by AlexStitch on Jun 23, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
we're not a baseball town..
i was listening to the drive one day when someone brought up if the pirates would be winners the town would go crazy and love them more than the steelers and pens and that we’re a baseball town. and (i think) mike logan had the best answer that describes us perfectly, he said we’re not a football town, we’re not a hockey town, we’re not a baseball town. We are a winning town. think about it, the pens fans are some of the best hockey fans in the nhl, steeler nation is a given, and the fact that the pirates have any fans at all left after their recent history says something. now of course theres those fans in every sport that are complete idiots and make the entire fanbase look bad.
why can't it be a baseball town AND a football town ?
"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente
here's the question
when the hell are we gonna see the Bucs on ESPN’s Sunday night games? You’d think if we stay within 5 or so of the division and play Milwaukee or STL over a weekend at some point, they’d consider it.
by theatrain on Jun 23, 2011 10:44 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
with our luck, it would be the same weekend the RedSox play the yankees... so you'd know which game they will cover.
which is fine. ESPN is $#@%! i can ROOT for my team via satellite
by white angus on Jun 23, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree. Lately, while watchign SportsCenter, I’ve been thinking how crappy ESPN has gotten in general. Who needs em.
I actually dropped cable because I could no longer stand 24 hour news stations like ESPN, FOX News, and CNN. They’re just one of those things I couldn’t help but turn on when I was flipping channels. But, then I would just curse at the TV while I couldn’t pull my eyes away.
Put on your dancin' shoes.
Truth, ESPN is straight garbage anymore.
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-Roberto
by blackjackfishtaco on Jun 23, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Sportscenter = unwatchable
A lot of would be standup comedians who just aren’t, you know, funny.
Don’t know if anyone else will remember this. Maybe 10 years ago, that skank Linda Cohn was doing highlights for a Pirate game and some poor dude in the stands had caught the cameraman’s eye. It was kind of like George Constanza at the U.S. Open – guy’s just trying to eat something and he became the target of mean-spirited humor in front of a nationwide ESPN audience.
What made it even more odious was, he looked like he might possibly be borderline mentally challenged. At the very least, he was just some poor guy who, even more than most of us, nature cheated in the looks department.
Since then, I can’t bear to watch or listen to Linda Cohn. She can’t possibly have a conscience to have participated in that. The cameraman and his director, for whichever team’s rightsholder produced the broadcast, also deserve eternity in the 9th ring of hell.
As a hockey fan first, I lost all respect for Linda Cohn when she has claimed for years she loves hockey, but then cannot pronounce half of the players names right.
Wait -
you guy had respect for Linda Cohn?
Ever?
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 23, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a strong tooth:gum ratio there...
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
by Slick1 on Jun 23, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Slightly off-topic, but Langosch just tweeted saying the Pirates have called up Chase D’Arnaud for Friday’s game and optioned Josh Harrison back to AAA. Is there a reason why we’re holding on to Pedro Ciriaco like this? Did he see the staff putting steroids in the whole roster’s breakfast and is now blackmailing them to stay on the roster?(sarcasm)
I think they figure that Ciriaco isn’t going to amount to much and its not going to hurt him if he’s not playing at all. With a guy like Harrison, if he’s not playing much it’s going to hurt his development so they sent him back to AAA to get some more work in.
Not sure what they think Harrison is going to develop into
His ceiling is a bench bat/utility guy anyway, what harm would it do to leave him on the bench instead of Ciriaco, who’s completely useless?
Yeah I don't really get this...
I’d rather have Harrison PH than Ciriaco. Though I guess I’d rather have Ciriaco as a late inning defensive replacement than Harrision. Guess that tells us what Hurdle plans on doing with that last roster spot. Kind of funny, been a lof discussion about adding a 26th man to the roster but we are currently playing with 24.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
maybe so Harrison can continue to work out at multiple positions
everyone knows he isnt going to be a starter in the bigs, but he could be a valuable utility guy in the near future.
props to Harrison for doing a good job while in Bucco black.
by white angus on Jun 23, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
From what I've read,
it’s Hurdle’s choice to have Ciriaco there.
Don’t ask me why, other than he can play short.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 23, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe Cedeno out ?
that would make since to keep Ciriaco. Maybe Hurdle didn’t like Cedenos reaction to the benching
"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente
apparently, this was so they can recall harrison when they send lincoln down after he comes up to pitch one of the games of the nats doubleheader next weekend… and the plan is evidently to demote ciriaco for presley on tuesday…
http://blog.triblive.com/bucco-blog/2011/06/23/darnaud-presley-lincoln-on-the-way/
by Captain Easychord on Jun 23, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
If there is no improvement over what has become the Pirates standard offense of averaging five hits and three runs per game, a relatively enjoyable season will soon end.
In 5 Billion years the sun is going to die and life on earth will cease to exist. This is so fun.
Put on your dancin' shoes.
then we're running out of time for a winning season !
"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente
by michaelbro8 on Jun 23, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Come on man, that's highly unnecessary, not to mention juvenile.
Nevermind the fact that he’s right- they need to score more runs. They’ve sort of gotten lucky so far to get by with the offense they’ve had.
Harsh, dude.
Really harsh.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 23, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Bandwagon Fans
Who cares if they are bandwagon fans or not, let’s fill the stadium and start getting some national exposure. You have to love how things are going now. My wife has been a Red Sox fan for years and she now is a total Pirates fan. I asked who she was going to root for this weekend and she said" I can’t root against the Bucs and wll be wearing my Cutch t-shirt all weekend" Got to love this.
by SFBucco on Jun 23, 2011 1:39 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I like my cheap tickets
Tickets are still cheap but they are getting harder to get cheap. Over the last few years you could go to the game for next to nothing but things are definitely changing.
Bandwagon
There is a huge difference between getting on the bandwagon when the team is flirting with .500 and getting on the bandwagon when the team is in the middle of a championship run.
Watching the Nats game
While Pineda was carving up the Nats with his 2 seamer and sinker and sitting around 92 the Nats announcers were talking about how they haven’t seen the “95+ mph heat we’ve been hearing about all week”
He got in trouble, loaded the bases, and got out of the jam K’in Espinosa and Pudge with 95 mph heaters
This guy is absolutely filthy
Who Are The Real Pirates?
I was talking to a friend yesterday in another state, and I think he brought up something interesting when describing the 2011 Bucs. Not being a fan or familiar with the team, but aware of the 57 win club from 2010, he said " the Pirates must be playing some amazing baseball to be at .500 right now." I thought about that statement, and that may be the opinion shared by many other fans of other teams at the moment. For me, that brings up the question of what we’re seeing at the moment, and how far this team might go.
On the surface, compared with 2010, it is amazing to see a .500 record near the end of June. And yes, even with All-Star pitcher Evan Meek ineffective and sidelined, the pitching as a whole has exceeded expectations. But the offense has really struggled, with minimal contributions from Pedro, and free agents Overbay/Diaz. So who are the real Pirates? Is this a club simply overachieving record-wise, and reality will catch up with this team, or maybe the reverse is true. Perhaps the offense will improve later in the season, and the pitching will be good enough to make a push to end the losing streak.
On the plus side, I’ve been impressed with the road record, along with the ability to snap out of tough losses, and small losing streaks. The Bucs certainly have had a number of injuries to deal with so far in 2011, as well. On the minus side, I don’t know if this team can put together more than a 3-4 game winning streak, and the innings logged by the starting rotation could be a problem in July or August.
Thoughts?
It’s tough to tell who the real Pirates are. We have been hit with pretty significant injuries, losing one of the better relievers in all of baseball last year in Meek, as well as possibly our best starter last year in Ohlendorf. Not to mention losing Snyder, Doumit, Alvarez and Pearce for significant amounts of time as well.
Personally, I feel that the pitching is overachieving and will likely drop off due to some overwork(It’s already started with Charlie, and I think it was smart to give him a start off to rest); not significantly, but enough that we won’t be able to keep up this pace and stay at .500. Unless, that is, the offense picks up. Whether that happens as a simple response to the pitching getting a bit worse as the year wears on, or because the 4 hitters we lost come back over time and pick up the production, I don’t know.
Overall, I predicted at the start of the season that this team would end up with ~75 wins, +/- a couple, and I’m sticking to that. However, if the pitching can keep up this level of solid performance and/or the hitting can improve as we get some of those guys back, who knows?
agree that it's tough figuring this team out...
last year they couldn’t win on the road, but were decent at home. This year they’re playing well on the road, not as well at home. Last season their pitching sucked, but their hitting was decent (I know, maybe not decent – but I couldn’t think of a word for “better than sucking”). This season they’re pitching very well over all, but the hitting is horrendous (maybe heating up a bit lately though).
Overall though I agree with Charlie’s summary here: this team is enjoyable to watch, and there’s a “vibe” from the team that I really like. Cutch and his cockiness; Walker and his quiet confidence; Hanrahan making opposing hitters look stupid, etc. If Pedro comes back and plays better and Doumit does too, could be an interesting rest of the season.
"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente
Not sure if I’d call Cutch’s attitude cocky, because while he did seem to have a bit of cockiness early on this year, he’s mellowed a bit since his benching, but has retained his own sense of quite supreme confidence to complement Neil’s. I do agree that the rest of the season will be very interesting if we can hover at and around .500 until Pedro, Doumit, Snyder and Pearce each make their way back. If those guys can up our hitting, you never know.
cutch is cocky
but its the good kind of cocky, its the swagger flashiness kind of cocky. not the “im amazing” cocky.
Exactly. Until his benching, he was the bad kind of cocky, where he seemed to take his anointed title as future of the team to his head and stopped giving his full effort. After the benching he’s run out every ground ball I’ve seen and has been a consummate team player, but hasn’t lost that edge that you mentioned.
I think that we're due for regression in both directions
if that makes sense.
Bad news is, I don’t think the starting pitching is going to drop off a cliff, but I also don’t expect them to be quite as good as they were all May. So maybe a few additional losses due to mediocre starts from KC, Charlie, etc. We may very well trade Maholm, which will probably represent an extra two or three losses since he’s been so good this year. Also, I hate to even bring this up, but besides Ohlendorf, we’ve been really lucky with the health of our starters this year (NOJINXNOJINXNOJINX) and we should probably expect that at some point in July or August one of them might have to miss a few starts.
The good news is that within the next month or two we should see the returns of Pedro, Pearce, and Doumit, which will give the offense a BIG shot in the arm. Doumit especially, if he can return to pre-injury 2011 form.
So basically my thinking is that despite some weirdness both to the good and the ill, this is about a .500 team, and should be able to stay that way through the summer.
20% of our rotation and 50% of our pen have missed significant time already. I don’t see that as all that lucky
Well, he wasn’t at the beginning of the season. One of the ways we’ve been lucky is that our sixth starter turned out to pitch a lot better than our third/fourth starter when he got injured, nojinxnojinxnojinx.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Jun 23, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
that said
Getting one starter injured (and maybe one starter quasi-injured in spring training) is probably no worse than average as far as the health of your rotation goes.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Jun 23, 2011 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe lucky is the wrong word
but I bet we’ve been better than average as far as injuries to pitchers are concerned. (and worse for position players, of course.)
I don’t have the numbers in front of me for this (not sure how you’d even look it up) but it seems like the “average” rotation suffers a decent bit of trouble in any given year. I’m not only talking about season-ending things, but even just “tweaked his ankle, misses two starts,” or things like Beckett being sick this weekend.
It’s obviously still early and anything could happen but thus far our main guys have pretty much taken the ball every fifth day.
Speaking of Ronnie Paulino
Did anybody notice that he closed his stance again? When he had that horrific second year he was standing in their with an akward looking open stance, and everybody pitched him away. His production dwindled to mendoza line territory, got traded and cut 3 times then disappeared until now.
I still remember cursing him out that year shouting close your stance. What an idiot
Bees Bees Everywhere
snyder changed his stance this year and hit better too.
ronny adopted the leg kick, then he put it back up for adoption.
While we're at it ...
somebody (you there, patthatt?) explain Ryan Vogelsong.
There are just some things in the universe that are unexplainable. Ryan Vogelsong’s success this season falls in that category.
I think its because we gave up on him too quickly
much like Joey Bats
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
Remember that long road once more, then kiss it...kiss it goodbye
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Jun 23, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
He got a million chances
As the primary return for Schmidt ( who became a total stud in SF), Birdsong was given every opportunity. I’ve never seen a player better embody the white flag
by JRoth95 on Jun 23, 2011 10:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I knew I forgot something
/sarcasm
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
Remember that long road once more, then kiss it...kiss it goodbye
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Jun 23, 2011 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, when a man and a woman love each other very much…
by thecheeseisblue on Jun 23, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
I think this means that...
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
Remember that long road once more, then kiss it...kiss it goodbye
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
You Gotta Believe! In the Pirates???? YES!
At the end of last year, disgusted as hell with Nutting, Huntington, and Coonelly, I had had it with the Pirates. Not enough to quit on or hate my favorite MLB team, but I had had it with 18 losing seasons and didn’t want to hear anymore explanations, excuses, or rationalizations. I demanded flatly that Nutting sell the team. That Huntington and Coonelly by fired and that the Pirates be sold to owner who cared about restoring the Pirates fortunes. I also said that the only way I would consider that the Pirates were improving is if they played at least .500 ball all season, and win at least half of their games. I didn’t expect a winning season, just .500 ball and not another losing season. Well, the Pirates are sitting at .500 so far and we’re coming up on the All-Star break. Clint Hurdle has turned this team around, not completely of course, but enough to make me think there’s light at the end of the tunnel. I’m actually beginning to believe the Pirates could actually have a winning season this year. Maybe 83-79 or something close to that. The way they’ve played so far, it IS possible for the Pirates to do this. Any way you cut it, it’s better than what we’ve seen in years past, especially last year. So I say why not? Why not get behind this team and give them all the support we Pirates fans can give. I believe they care and are trying to win, that between Hurdle and the team, they don’t want to be losers and have decided to try and turn this losing Pirates organization into a winner. So I say let’s bet behind these Buccos every chance we get and push ‘em to win. Push ’em to do their best. Push ’em to not give up, even when it looks like they don’t have a chance. I’m betting they’ll respond. I’m betting they want Pittsburgh and Pirates fans everwhere to finally be proud of this team.
are you going to give the FO office any credit for the performance or just Hurdle?
either way, welcome aboard the bandwagon.
Funny how this works...
fans can get behind the team but still are hesitant to say anything positive about NH, Coonelly or Nutting.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
I demanded flatly that Nutting sell the team. That Huntington and Coonelly by fired and that the Pirates be sold to owner who cared about restoring the Pirates fortunes.
Was Nutting at least cool about it when he told you he wouldn’t sell? DId you believe him when he told you that he did care? Also, what did Nutting say when you demanded that Coonelly and Huntington be fired? Just curious.
So I say why not? Why not get behind this team and give them all the support we Pirates fans can give. I believe they care and are trying to win, that between Hurdle and the team, they don’t want to be losers and have decided to try and turn this losing Pirates organization into a winner.
No offense dude but most of us here have been behind the Buccos and have believed in the plan from day 1.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
So I say let’s bet behind these Buccos every chance we get and push ‘em to win.
Er, most of us have been behind the Buccos anyway, because we saw that the right thing was being done. If anything, I’d caution you at this point, because I do believe they’ve outdone themselves by a bit. Still, it’s good that the team makes you feel better, because they are more likely than not gonna appeal to your dark side again sometime…
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