Harrison demoted, d'Arnaud expected to join team... Ciriaco wanted by Pennsylvania State Police for stealing money from Pirates
by GTrain on Jun 23, 2011 11:08 AM EDT
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Seriously?? According to Kristy Robinson, Harrison (who is hitting .283) playing 3B and 2B will be demoted. However, no news on Ciriaco, the backup SS to backup SS Brandon Wood. If you don't know that's him in the picture above FYI. It's very likely that you don't recognize him as he has never actually appeared in a game for the Pirates.
BUT HE CAN PICK IT!!! Seriously though, can someone explain this? My apologies for wasting your time if there is a move that I dont know about, or if he retired this morning, etc.
UPDATE: Lincoln joining the team soon to make the July 2nd start against DC via Kristy via Rob B, both on Twitter. Stay tuned.....
UPDATE #2: ALLLLL BETTER! Neal was actually just gaming the system YOU SLYSUMMAMAGUN YOU!! See link -------> http://blog.triblive.com/bucco-blog/2011/06/23/darnaud-presley-lincoln-on-the-way/
The Jay Hay kid will be back shortly, with the other Pedro heading down to make room for Elvis. I'm not sure why just sending down Ciriaco and calling up Chase a week a go wouldn't have avoided all of this, but I guess they wanted everyone getting as many at bats as possible, except Ciriaco of course. Do you think he has his own bats, or just borrows them from other guys like when the AL pitchers have to hit in interleague?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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I was about to post this.
I just don’t get this. Harrison isn’t great but he is hitting. 283 and D’arnuad doesn’t even play 3rd. This makes no sense.
http://www.kissingthecanvas.com
"Look at this body, ... Do I look like I use steroids?"
-James Toney
actually
D’arnaud most definitely plays 3rd, SS, 2B
Bees Bees Everywhere
by VoteforPedro on Jun 23, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
twitter:
BiertempfelTrib
#Pirates will call up INF Chase d’Arnaud tomorrow. And … OF Alex Presley, SP Brad Lincoln will join the team next week.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 23, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
RobB from the trib on the tweeter
#Pirates will call up INF Chase d’Arnaud tomorrow. And … OF Alex Presley, SP Brad Lincoln will join the team next week.
I’m guessing, in the case of Presley at least, in time for the Toronto series with the DH?
by StripesForLife on Jun 23, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Prolly.
see link below
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 23, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Saw it on P-G ,you’re right the right would move be to have Pedro C sent down. No idea, but in the end it is probably not that much of a deal is it? He only has a .612 OPS with one walk.in 60 ABs. My heart is not broken.
I just cant believe that they are going with 4 SS when one of them never plays, and shouldn't
That would just make no sense at all
Where is D’Arnaud going to play? Is Cedeno getting bumped?
by StripesForLife on Jun 23, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
True, but he’s hit the ball decent this year, when he’s not bunting. He’s also been awesome in the field.
by StripesForLife on Jun 23, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
He's hit the ball decent?
Surely you can’t be serious….
He is serious.
And don’t call him Shirley.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 23, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
He ranks around 10 in most major categories. It just gets magnified when they don’t have anybody producing at 1B, 3B, RF or C. I’ll take a shortstop that can field the way he has shown this year and is hitting .230/.289/.326
by StripesForLife on Jun 23, 2011 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry I was only looking at the NL.
But my point remains the same.
by StripesForLife on Jun 23, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
He has a .988 fielding percentage. On my team if a SS can play defense, I don’t really care if he even takes a bat to the plate with him. That’s not what he’s in the lineup for.
by StripesForLife on Jun 23, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
There are only 4 SS's in the league...
with less WAR than Cedeno, and one of them is Hanley Ramirez who, based on his track record, won’t hit .211 the rest of the season. That means the only SS worse than Ronny are Cliff Pennington, Yuniesky Betnacourt and Miguel Tejada (and I think he is playing more 3rd than SS these days).
I don’t really care if he even takes a bat to the plate with him. That’s not what he’s in the lineup for.
If he’s giving away nearly as many runs at the plate as he’s saving in the field than what good is he? Unfortunately, until the NL allows a DH and Hurdle uses it on Cedeno, Ronny still has to hit.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
I appreciate the humour, however...
3 days ago: PITTSBURGH – JUNE 20: Pedro Ciriaco #3 of the Pittsburgh Pirates throws to second base against the Baltimore Orioles during the game on June 20, 2011 at PNC Park in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. (Photo by Jared Wickerham/Getty Images)
Charlie’s take:
And Pedro Ciriaco played for several irrelevant innings. In the photo above, the AP helpfully documents Ciriaco playing baseball for the Pirates, which should help fans who get confused when the Pirates option him six weeks from now.
From this post
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
I was at that game
and can confirm the existence of White Flag Ciriaco. He played third. The Loch Ness Monster was at short and the Abominable Snowman at first.
Which leaves Bigfoot
still a mystery…
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 23, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Ciriaco
OK, this guy is starting to peeve me here. Why is he still on the team? Between hitters and relief pitchers, there are probably a dozen guys on Indy or Altoona who would be more useful. Our offense isn’t exactly the Lumber Company out there so we shouldn’t be carrying someone who can only be a defensive replacement/pinch runner.
I hope the rumors are right and he gets sent down next week but why not right now? Think we couldn’t use another bat off the bench against the Red Sox?
Looks like he'll be going down soon. Maybe Chase will get a start at SS this weekend
And then DH in Toronto? I dunno. Ciriaco has no business being on the team, and it’s not like he ever plays anyway. Just a complete waste of a roster spot.
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
I imagine the idea is for Harrison to play every day, but that still doesn’t explain why they don’t replace Ciriaco with Presley now.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
yeah
makes no sense that they’ve already announced callups for next week, but wont actually call them up… maybe they’ve learnt from the Alvarez saga, and want to make sure they sell tons of tickets when future superstars Presley and Lincoln come up!
by BurgherKing on Jun 23, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
They will bring up Presley to DH
Have D’Arnaud play everyday and switch off with Wood, Cedeno @ SS, 3B. His numbers are awesome against Lefties and I think Boston is starting at least 1 this weekend, so that’s good. Ciriaco will be gone soon enough.
I like what Pat over at WHYGAVS had to say about it:
There’s plenty of consternation about Harrison going down instead of Pedro Ciriaco, but I think a few factors are at play here. One is that the Pirates want Harrison to get at-bats, whereas they’re obviously not concerned if Ciriaco does. The other is that Brandon Wood has been hitting the ball pretty well of late. In June he’s hitting at a .292/.320/.438 clip, which isn’t great (especially the OBP), but it’s much better than the hollow .283/.295/.317 line that Harrison had managed. If the Pirates have finally reached the end of their Ronny Cedeno rope and want to give D’Arnaud a chance, it would make sense to give Wood the at-bats at third for now to see if he can continue being at least somewhat useful with the bat. That leaves Harrison as the odd man out for now. I’m certainly not writing the guy off after 62 big league plate appearances, but he did seem pretty overmatched at times and it makes sense to send him back for some regular reps in Triple-A.
Makes sense to me
I knew Wood had been better; didn’t realize he’d been that good. As Pat says, it’s not “great”, but it is above league average for 3B – in fact, it would be 7th among qualifying 3Bs. SSS and all that, but it’s certainly acceptable production from a backup 3B, and if he can sustain it at all…. Any OPS above .700 puts him in the middle of the pack for 3B.
I might add that, aside from the bat, Harrison’s D at 3B has been suspect, but possibly in a coachable way. They may want him to get more intensive instruction and more reps down in Indy.
I agree on the defense. Although some of them may have been bad hops, he should have at least knocked them down. He just looked utterly confused on some of those grounders.
i dont think he looked confused. i think he flat out gambled and missed.
by white angus on Jun 23, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I guess you are right. I just wanted to add another sentence to my reply above. I got greedy.
by Hegs on Jun 23, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
My take on it
So when Harrison initially got the call, it was because D’arnaud on the DL. He would’ve gotten the call then. Harrison was next in line. The theory I’m guessing was D’arnaud’s been on a “rehab” stint in AAA. Once he showed he was fully healthy, he was going to come back. The timing just makes it look retarded
Bees Bees Everywhere
by VoteforPedro on Jun 23, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Kinda doubt that.
Starting the game May 11, Chase was hitting .219 for the season and most people were guessing he was not going to make it to MLB this year.
The next 12 games, he hit .396 to raise his season average to .275, then he went on the DL. Do you promote someone to MLB because they had a good 12 games? I doubt it. You want to see them sustain it for longer than that obviously.
Since he came back from the DL (missed 10 days), he has hit .299 in 18 games to raise his season AVG to .280 and so has hit .330 the past 30 games. I would say he’s barely shown that this is a real raise in level rather than a hot streak, which he is very prone to have.
I certainly wouldn’t have felt comfortable with him coming up after 12 good games.
by MarkInDallas on Jun 23, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
for pete's sake, relax about Ciriaco!!!
d’arnaud is getting called up. presley, the wonderboy of baseball lore, is getting called up. this is what you guys wanted… ask and ye shall receiveth.
thanks for that cocktails
that last paragraph from RobB pretty much explains everything perfectly. also shows why the guys who get paid to run a baseball team know quite a bit more than the ones who run this team for free (snicker)
by white angus on Jun 23, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it never would have occurred to me to play with 24 players for a month. Genius move.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
by WTM on Jun 23, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
hey, we won with 1 less player than everyone else...
maybe we should stick to that, hmmmm?
by white angus on Jun 23, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, all those wasted outstanding starts certainly didn’t represent a lost opportunity.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
I see it now
They used Ciriaco to lull opponents into a false sense of security.
But aren’t you worried the eventual demotion will hurt your Ciriaco-for-Hall-of-Fame campaign?
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
Locker
I’m convinced that Garrett Jones and Chris Synder stuffed Ciriaco into a locker several weeks ago and then forgot where that locker was. Rather than optioning him back (which would require finding him and letting him out), they’ve just decided to let him collect a ML paycheck.
by Fat Jimmy on Jun 23, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That really cleared things up.
Maybe Management knows what they are doing after all…
Next thing you know, we’ll get an explanation for Dave Littlefield’s moves. He was paid to run a baseball team, you know.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
Wrong button and fixed!
Next thing you know, we’ll get an explanation for Dave Littlefield’s moves. He was paid to ruin a baseball team, you know.
by Kev S on Jun 23, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
now we all need to temper our desires from presley and d'arnaud
theres a very good chance that both guys do absolutely nothing in their first real shots in the show. and it doesnt make them busts, or bombs, or garbage. it makes them bucs.
I see whut you did thar.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 23, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
And I'm happy no matter how it turns it...
because as far as I can tell the Pirates are making the right moves. We’ll get an idea of who can actually help the team in plenty of time for the trade deadline; should NH feel inclined to make a move.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
I also agree with the moves, and applaud the front office. (No, hell hasn’t frozen over!)
These are the type moves that need to be made for the future. We have to find out what we’ve got for the future, to make the 40 man roster decisions after the season a little easier. This will give Chase a taste of the big leagues, and if there is anything that he needs to go back and work on, he can do that before September. A good performance from Presley could begin to resolve the RF/1B (whichever Jones isn’t playing vs RHP) disaster.
I don’t imagine that D’Arnaud is coming up to sit on the bench for the next 10 days. Otherwise, they would have left him in Indianapolis. Not sure how they will shuffle things around, but I expect that D’Arnaud gets at least 1 or 2 starts at 2B and SS, possibly even 3B, in the next 10 days.
+1
There’s no better time than the present. This winter they’ll be making decisions based partly on whether they think they have any internal options, and next spring there’ll be roster decisions. It’ll be a lot easier not to have people saying, “We don’t know what we have in d’Arnaud, Presley, Lincoln, etc.” If we’re lucky, they might be able to go into next year with Chase as the starting SS and/or Presley as a 4th OF without having to be afraid they’ll totally flop.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
Just spit-balling here...
Maybe the Bucs are serious about making a run and want to see if they have the pieces they need to compete internally. These guys will have a month to show some life, if they don’t, no big deal, we move on to other options (trades).
We all want to add a bat and a SS. If these guys catch fire, we can try to address another area of need…coughfirstbasecough.
i thought the Legend was our savior at 1B...
are we hating him again or not??? im so behind in my venom, i swear.
by white angus on Jun 23, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
He
can play 1st or RF
Bees Bees Everywhere
by VoteforPedro on Jun 23, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
player to be named later
maybe harrison is the ptbnl to boston.
57-105 come on "sale the team"
I thought Snell
was always the player to be named later.
it will likely be and this is my best guess
Craig Hansen (even though he isn’t on the team)
Bees Bees Everywhere
by VoteforPedro on Jun 23, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
okay, with d'arnaud coming up, someone has to come off the 40man roster... whom is it?
and dont say Leroux just yet; i hear hes been very very good the last month
Burres and Sledge-o-matic...
aren’t on the 40 man roster. Leroux and Thompson are the 2 most likely DFA candidates. Crotta is rehabbing. Beimel is throwing but not on rehab yet. I don’t expect it to be either of those two, and they, as well as Doumit, Pedro and Pearce, don’t appear to be candidates for the 60 day DL. Haven’t heard anything on Meek in the last few days.
Personal guess, Thompson gets DFA tomorrow.
yep than Thompson it is...
that’s an easy call. Not sure why I thought Gallagher was on the 40.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
easy
so, they have 44 guys on the 40 man, 3 on the 60 day (Ohlendorf, Snyder and Hart). So before I even bothered to look at which former prospect to guess, I scanned the 15 day DL guys to see who may need a bit more time to come back.
Guys on that list who may need longer than 15 days until they rehab:
Alvarez (shut down till after All star break)
Meek (shut down “indefinitely”
I would guess Pedro or Meek, with room being made via trade by the time they need to come off the 60-day
Bees Bees Everywhere
by VoteforPedro on Jun 23, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
The timing couldn't be more perfect
He is really stinking it up lately in AAA
Lets bring up Brooks Pounders
just for the Boston series! big junp though from A ball to the majors, but who cares?
I would love that just so I can finally order my "Pounders 16" Jersey online
He wears 16 right? He HAS to!
Only because
1/4 is not an available / acceptable number.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 23, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
He wears 48 according to the WV roster
which is actually the # of ounces in 3 pounds. I guess since he’s “Pounders” and not “Pound” this sorta makes sense. Still, I will from now on refer to him as Brooks “I’m too cool to wear 16” Pounders
oh that cocktails
he’s tooooooooooooooo funny!
by primetime99 on Jun 23, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you!
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 23, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Biertempfel’s blog entry actually makes sense. They send Harrison down now, so they can bring him back the day after Lincoln’s start, if they choose to. It’s that pesky thing where if you are optioned you can’t be brought back before 10 days without someone going on the DL.
For those that haven’t read it…
Today…Harrison out, D’Arnaud in
Tuesday…Ciriaco out, Presley in
Before the 7/2 DH…Lincoln in, a reliever or D’Arnaud/Presley down
After the 7/2 DH…Harrison is eligible to be brought back if need be.
There IS a 40 man roster move to be announced. Current Pirate 40 man roster is at 41 at pirates.com and does have D’Arnaud on it, so those moves (D’Arnaud/Harrison) are pretty much official.
Best guesses, Thompson or Leroux DFA or one of our injuries going to the 60 day DL.
Both Harrison and Ciriaco...
were going to get sent down anyway. Doing Harrison first may actually indicate they have a use for him. Ciriaco…obviously doesn’t have much use…considering the amount of playing time he has gotten. Harrison’s optioning today works out so they can bring him back if needed after the 7/2 DH. Basically, they are playing the Toronto series and the first two days of the Nationals series with 1 spare infielder. After that, they will likely bring one back, in this case, Harrison.
I don't think his explanation makes sense
We don’t really need Harrison and I don’t think he should be called up for the sake of sending down Chase or Presley.
After 7/2, maybe it’s curtains for Overbay instead.
you think the FO would eat Overbay's contract that quickly?
i know they dismissed Aki around this time, but Overbay isnt Aki-bad.
im telling you guys here, that if the Pirates need a 1Bman, they need to go out and get one. it just aint gonna happen in house.
Over half a season
isn’t that quick. The money is a sunk cost and Overbay is providing negative value. We might not have an answer in house, but we can get improvement. Jones can play until Pearce gets back and then they platoon. Hague is not a horrible option either.
Lincoln
Is he up just for the spot start or is he going to stay up for a while? Has anyone heard anything yet?
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"
I don't understand this move at all
D’Arnaud has a .645 OPS vs. RHP in AAA, coming off a down year in AA (maybe he was sick or injured, but an excuse for a bad year is not the same as a good year). He has a .600 OPS overall in his last 10 games.
Seems like he still has some things he could stand to work on at the upper minors.
And he has a 1.003 OPS against LHPs. Why focus on only the one, especially when the Pirates have been worse against LHPs than RHPs this year.
And since when is the last ten games a crucial measure? His OPS over the last two months is above .800. You could just as easily focus on the last six games, during which he’s hitting .321.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
Is he being called up to provide immediate help against LHPs?
Or to get a look-see at a potential starter in advance of forthcoming roster decisions, as you said above?
Either way, I don’t understand it. On the one hand, all the guys he will be competing with for PT right now, including the one sent down, are RHBs. On the other, he has not dominated in AAA, and is in fact scuffling against same-sided pitchers (who are the majority of the pitchers for a RHB), so he still has things to learn.
by RafaelBelliup on Jun 23, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure it’s realistic to expect your shortstop prospect to dominate AAA offensively. Many big league shortstops didn’t. He’s being called up because he might be better than Cedeno. Or, he might not, but we won’t find out without seeing him against big league pitching.
This confuses me even more
Ronny Cedeno dominated AAA (OPS > .900) in two stints, one at 22 and again at 24. Even Jack Wilson, whose MiLB stats are mostly similar to d’Arnaud’s (though JW was about a year younger by level), dominated in a very short stint at AAA before being called up.
But that’s not the point. You aren’t likely to find out whether he is or will be a good future MLB SS by throwing him in there now, as he has done nothing in the high minors to demonstrate that he is ready — except, perhaps, beat up on AAA LHPs in a very small sample size with a very high BABIP.
All you are doing is asking him to figure out how to hit RHPs at the most difficult level, which seems unfairs because he hasn’t really done it successfully since A+.
by RafaelBelliup on Jun 23, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh huh
So just because Ronny Cedeno put up a .900 OPS in AAA, that means no one is ready to play in the big leagues until they do the same thing?
Again, lots of shortstops succeed in the big leagues without posting huge OPS numbers at AAA. Erick Aybar, Stephen Drew, etc. Most shortstops aren’t huge mashers in the minor leagues. Ronny Cedeno and Brandon Wood being two of the exceptions.
It isn't a requirement, especially for top prospects like Aybar and Drew
or McCutchen, for that matter. Players who are comparatively fast-tracked and consistently perform above expectations at younger ages may continue on to the majors without dominating AAA.
But usually offensive dominance or a longer period of sustained competence is a requirement for the rest, except defensive specialists. Both Aybar and Drew, to take your examples, dominated lower levels before being just good in AAA. D’Arnaud has only ever been just good in the minors (at ordinary ages), he wasn’t even plain good last year, and he hasn’t been good against RHPs this year.
So what gives?
by RafaelBelliup on Jun 23, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's what gives
The Pirates have a guy at shortstop who is not getting it done and there’s a guy at AAA who might do a better job. So they’re going to have a look at him. Is that such a crazy idea?
Is it about this year or the future?
Because if it’s about this year, it is far more likely that d’Arnaud will hit like Cedeno than field like Cedeno has, so it is most likely to be a short-term downgrade.
If it’s about the future, I think d’Arnaud would be better served trying to work out the kinks against RHPs at a level that isn’t unrealistic for him right now. The guy hasn’t hit acceptably well against RHP in almost two years.
by RafaelBelliup on Jun 23, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
So play Wood at short for a few games
Why screw with a player’s development by setting him up for failure?
by RafaelBelliup on Jun 23, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see this as setting him up for failure.
They are not saying they are going to play him every day no matter how he struggles. I don’t think giving Walker a cup of coffee in September in ‘09 hurt his player development at all. I’m pretty sure it helped him. Chase could benefit as well. It is possible it could be a short term downgrade, yes.
by MarkInDallas on Jun 23, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
So I was at work when this went up
and had a very hectic day trying, unsuccessfully to clear my desk before a brief vacation and I see the headline of this post and think….“a ha!” Of course, when you believe an employee is engaged in misconduct, you want to give him rope, let him dig himself in deeper, then keep him close so its not hard to find him when the old arrest warrant needs to be served.
Then after reading the story and comments and seeing nothing about embezzlement, mug shots, turning over evidence to the police, and realized….. slowly….. ah, that’s figuratively speaking…..
What does that mean?!
"...you want to give him rope, let him dig himself in deeper, ... "
Mix metaphors much there, Troggs?
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
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