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Offense and Power

I always hear things like "the Pirates need more power", and "this offense won't score without a middle of the lineup home run hitter", and there are several problems with that. First of all, power != home runs. Obviously home runs help power, but to be a power hitter you don't need to be a home run hitter. As a quick example of this I looked at the isolated power leaderboard from last season. And there was Andres Torres sitting with good power numbers, despite having only 16 home runs. Which put him above players like Prince Fielder and his 32 home runs. I think this is a fairly obvious assessment, so I don't feel a need to delve any deeper into it.

A second problem is that I don't believe power is a must for offensive performance. I believe that runs are runs, and if you get on base, you will score. So I decided to take a look at the data.

I took a look at the years 2008-2011, and looked at the correlation between runs scored and home runs, runs scored and isolated power, and as a point of comparison, runs scored and on base percentage.

First, I will look at the relationship between runs scored and home runs. I did the graphs in OpenOffice, so I don't know how to get them in here, but it isn't all that important. The correlation coefficients broke down as follows.

2008: 0.38

2009: 0.55

2010: 0.53

2011: 0.62

Oddly enough, the correlation of every stat I looked at increased yearly. That could be do to many things I'm not even going to try to get into right now. The point is, the average correlation is around .5, which is a statistically significant correlation, but not a very strong one. The graphs of all of these (that I can't show you) are quite scattered, but they show that home runs certainly help an offense, obviously.

Now, for the relationship between runs scored and isolated power. The correlation coefficients:

2008: 0.49

2009: 0.57

2010: 0.59

2011: 0.71

The average correlation here is around 0.58 (I'm just guessing here), which makes overall power a stronger correlation to scoring runs than home runs, but it still isn't a very strong correlation. These graphs appear significantly less scattered, with a few outliers throwing off the correlation rather than a more spread out graph like home runs. So power is helpful, and moreso than just home runs.

Now, as a bit of a comparison, we will look at the relationship between runs scored and on base percentage. The correlation coefficients are as follows:

2008: 0.7

2009: 0.72

2010: 0.77

2011: 0.8

Holy correlation, Batman! With an average correlation of roughly 0.75, clearly on base percentage is related strongly to runs scored. These graphs are very linear, with few outliers.

Now for a summary. Power is fairly important. Obviously it's useful to have, and teams with little power rarely score a lot of runs. Home runs are less important. If a team hits tons of doubles and triples, but few home runs, they'll be just fine offensively. On base percentage is very important.

As for how it applies to the Pirates. They need some more power than they're getting now. Theoretically, that should come from Pedro Alvarez. They don't need home runs as long as they produce adequate power numbers. They should produce middle of the road power numbers with the addition of Alvarez, and a lack of a black hole at first base. However, I do not think they need another power hitter. Many people advocate acquiring a power hitter to bat in the middle of the lineup, but I feel as long as the team has on base machines, like McCutchen, Tabata, and to an extent Jones have been this year, they should have a quality offense. In the future, I believe the offense is set to be competitive, providing the black holes are filled. However, that does hinge on getting massive power output from someone, most likely Alvarez. If he pans out, I am perfectly happy filling out the other "power" positions, like first and corner outfield, with high OBP players.

In short, I think the team, with the addition of Alvarez, should provide s good enough offense. There is no need for an additional power hitter or home run hitter. And the data seems to back up that theory to an extent. If the team is to have an elite offense, things would need to be different, but I don't foresee the Pirates having an elite offense.

And yes, I know correlation does not imply causation. I'm not saying that this tiny little quick study I did is anything definitive. More food for thought, especially for the statistically minded among us.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.

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cheese or anyone else,

can you explain how ISO is calculated?

by theatrain on Jun 23, 2011 9:19 PM EDT reply actions  

yup thats one stat i dont get

We have to unify and watch our flag ascend!

by C Shint on Jun 23, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very simple stat. SLG% – BA. It’s just the extra bases from extra base hits.

by thecheeseisblue on Jun 23, 2011 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice job cheesie...

Your study goes beyond HR’s pointing out the problem with the way we have looked at offense in the past. OPS isn’t even a good inficator of offensive performance because it incorrectly assumes that slg% = OBP. This is the reason wOBA was created and why I feel it is the best stat for measuring a hitter’s performance. I’d be willing to bet if you ran that correlation again using wOBA it would be stronger than the others.

#AllTheBuntsAreBad!

by Slick1 on Jun 23, 2011 10:09 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I thought about using wOBA, cause it is the best, but I was trying to keep it simple and quick. Anyway, I just ran it with wOBA, and the results are spectacular as expected.
2008: 0.89
2009: 0.92
2010: 0.91
2011: 0.92
My thought process was that wOBA is a far more complex stat, and I wanted something that pointed at one aspect of a player’s game, since the point was not really to find the best stat for valuing offense, but was more for demonstrating power isn’t as important as it is sometimes made out.

by thecheeseisblue on Jun 23, 2011 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

since the point was not really to find the best stat for valuing offense, but was more for demonstrating power isn’t as important as it is sometimes made out.

I think you succeeded. Nicely done.

#AllTheBuntsAreBad!

by Slick1 on Jun 23, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

See

this is an excellent article with some very useful research unlike some of the bullcrap I write.

Rec’d haha!

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jun 23, 2011 11:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Really really well done, Cheese.

But didn’t you forget to suggest seven different package trades we should make for guys with good ISO?

by Garrett122 on Jun 24, 2011 12:08 AM EDT reply actions  

Sale the farm for Fukudome?

by thecheeseisblue on Jun 24, 2011 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good information...

But I think there is one thing you might be missing here. While homeruns may not correlate to the ability to score runs as well as OBP, OBP can be directly correlated to OBP.

What I mean to say that someone who hits a bunch of homeruns can also be a person who draws a ton of walks. Someone like a Prince Fielder, who you mentioned in the article, can contribute both ways because he adds runs via the homerun and via a pretty good OBP. Not to say you’ll go out and get a Prince Fielder type to add the team, obviously a pipe dream, but I think running those as diametrically opposed stats can be a bit misleading. But maybe you’re taking that into account and I am missing something? It is 1:15 A.M., so feel free to let me know if that makes absolutely no sense.

Either way, though, very good information.

by TheRebelMonk on Jun 24, 2011 1:18 AM EDT reply actions  

Meant a power hitter’s homeruns can be directly correlated to OBP.

by TheRebelMonk on Jun 24, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

TheRebelMonk is right. Players with home run power tend to draw more walks and have higher on-base percentages. And I wouldn’t consider Tabata an on-base machine. He’s been at the .345 level throughout his short career. It’s OK, but not even close to a machine level.

by bolton on Jun 24, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

There have been a lot of HR hitters who don't draw walks though.

Besides we know some things to be true from cheese’s study. We know that OBP correlates strongly to runs. We know that HR’s do not correlate strongly to runs. If these two factors are true, why would you guys assume that HR’s correlates strongly to OBP? We know there’s a directly correlation with batting average. If BA goes up, OBP goes up. Yeah, in theory HR hitters could get walked more. Makes sense on paper. But where is the cutoff? Is 15 HR potential enough to walk more. What if that HR hitter is a terrible contact hitter? Don’t good hitters walk more in general? Lots of questions and variables but I’m not convinced that “HR” hitters walk more in reality.

#AllTheBuntsAreBad!

by Slick1 on Jun 24, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not making the argument...

that a HR machine draws a lot of walks. I am making the argument that it is possible and then provided an example. I am more broadly saying that the I feel the argument using each of these pieces of information entirely exclusive of each other can be a bit misleading.

For example, Fukodome is 10th in the league in OBP with only 3 homeruns and nothing to brag about as far as power goes. But, Albert Pujols is 47th, .045 behind Fukodome. Which do you honestly think and offense runs through better? The pure OBP or the player who mixes them together. There is obviously a point at which you want to have power and OBP. I actually think finding the correlation between these two would find you the best type of players to create offense. Something like in the top 20% of power and top 10% of OBP is probably better than someone leading OBP but only in the top third of the power numbers.

by TheRebelMonk on Jun 24, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously you want a player who can do everything, nobody is debating that. The point was that a Mark Reynolds type, who can hit homers but literally do nothing else, provides power, but doesn’t actually help the offense very much.

by thecheeseisblue on Jun 24, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed...

Definitely true. I am just trying to, more or less, point out that just OBP does not wholly trump power. Still, enjoyed the numbers, definitely revealing.

by TheRebelMonk on Jun 24, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I know. I wasn’t trying to say OBP trumps power or anything. I just picked that number as a point of comparison to show that other things correlate better than power. I could have picked many other stats, but that’s one that is simple, and the first thing to pop into mind.

by thecheeseisblue on Jun 24, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now if...

I can just figure out some of these other stats…. wOBA, FIP, that sort of stuff I might be a bit better off, haha.

by TheRebelMonk on Jun 25, 2011 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ok, I get your point.

And you’re right. That’s why I made the point above about wOBA which properly weigths each offensive contribution. The original inent of the post though was to show that simply HR’s are not all that matters in regards to offense. Obviously a player that can get on base, hit HR"sand hit for average is going to be more valuable than a guy only does one of the three.

#AllTheBuntsAreBad!

by Slick1 on Jun 24, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

I can see that, but I was just making a point that showing all three as mutually exclusive can be a bit misleading as well. I got the point, though. Was just throwing in my two cents in that regard.

by TheRebelMonk on Jun 24, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

ISO seems to be the key stat for the next "Moneyball" team

HR hitters will make 15+MM per year in free agency. A guy like Andres Torres? Probably no more than 5MM.

On the other hand, a HR is a sure run, and a dependable power hitter is something we haven’t had in a long time. Having one would be really nice! (@Pedro_Alvarez)

by H2O on Jun 24, 2011 1:37 AM EDT reply actions  

You kind of missed the point.

ISO doesn’t correlate much better to runs than does HR’s. There is a much stronger correlation with OBP and runs. That was the message you should have taken from this. So you know, ISO has been around as a stat for a very long time. I believe it was created by Branch Rickey over 50 years ago so it isn’t a shiny new toy like some think. Anyway, see my comment above about wOBA for a stat that properly measures hitting performance. Unfortunately, nearly all front offices employ respected SABR types so none of these things are the new moneyball. A .400 wOBA guy wil be valued like a .400 wOBA guy whether or not it’s Price Fielder or Andres Torress. Take a look at the Carl Crawford contract for evidence of that.

#AllTheBuntsAreBad!

by Slick1 on Jun 24, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

oops

I get it now…

I should really stick to the NBA

by H2O on Jun 25, 2011 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

No you shouldn't...

I should learn how to explain things better without coming off like a pompous ass.

#AllTheBuntsAreBad!

by Slick1 on Jun 25, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

none of this matters cause chicks dig the long ball


"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente

by michaelbro8 on Jun 24, 2011 2:02 AM EDT reply actions  

new MLB marketing campaign

“Chicks dig isolated power numbers.”

Let’s get Alyssa Milano on board with this.

by Garrett122 on Jun 24, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

especially if we can get her out of Dodger blue whatever she’s wearing.

FTFY.

by Garrett122 on Jun 28, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions   3 recs

Very good article

I have always been one of the guys preaching a need a big HR hitter, but this article has begun to change that. Thanks and rec’d

"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"

by CAGGS on Jun 24, 2011 10:30 AM EDT reply actions  

The Pirates need HR power at first base and one of the corner OF spots. It’s very hard to find .400 OBP guys who lack power. A) Pitchers don’t walk slap hitters at the same rate B) Players who rely on singles and doubles have to hope the defense doesn’t catch the ball.

Cutch, who has good power, is 8th in the NL in OBP.

Here are the 7 guys ahead of him:
1. Votto (CIN) .440
2. Fielder (MIL) .426
3. Kemp (LAD) .420
4. Berkman (STL) .417
5. Fukudome (CHC) .400
6. Holliday (STL) .443
7. Braun (MIL) .395

Six of the seven are big home run hitters. That’s no accident.

To become a good offense, the Pirates need at least 2 stud OBP guys in the corner spots. Tabata, Alvarez, Overbay and Jones/Diaz have not been able to cut it this year. The Pirates can get by with average players such Tabata and Jones if Alvarez becomes a .270/.360/.520 hitter and the team somehow finds another masher on the scrap heap.

by bolton on Jun 24, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

It

#AllTheBuntsAreBad!

by Slick1 on Jun 24, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

It?

Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jun 25, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

That?

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
Remember that long road once more, then kiss it...kiss it goodbye
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Jun 26, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

The player makes a difference

A walk is not always just a walk, and a single isn’t always a single. The guy that gets on base I think has a huge difference in wether or not power is a real factor. In slg. and some of the other statistic the is not room to account for speed. A walk to Fielder or Pujols followed by a single is at best two guys on because they pose no threat on the bases. But, a walk to a guy like Cutch could be as bad as a double b/c he can take second from you. I would rather have Good power guys with good OPS, and speed than just great power. The goal of the game is to get as many of your guys around the bases as often as possible and it dosen’t really matter how you do it, just so you do. and right now since power is expensive we should excell in another form of ball. (ie: small ball) I love all the speed we seem to have, now we just need to use it the right way. It is also why I don’t mind seeing Overbay bunt, if it moves guys along the bases.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

by pipesqueek on Jun 25, 2011 2:56 PM EDT reply actions  

No one is mad when Overbay bunts :)

by Mr. E on Jun 25, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lots of people are mad, I'm just not one of them.

It’s not like he’s Sir Albert.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

by pipesqueek on Jun 26, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

How necessary is power?

Here’s a team many of you probably are quite familiar with. The league rankings are for the season:

Runs = 9th
Hits = 8th
2B = 11th
3B = 6th
HR – 8th
BA = 7th
OBP = 10th
SLUG% = 11th
OPS = 11th

And before you think, “Well, that offense is at least mediocre,” this team played in a 12-team league, two of which were pretty terrible first-year expansion teams. That’s right, an expansion team out-slugged and out-OPSed this team.

This team’s top power hitters had 26, 14 and 12 homers (McCutchen, Jones and Walker?), and its top RBI men had 76 and 75.

However, that team had these pitching ranks:

ERA = 2
Hits allowed = 1

And its fielding percentage was second in the league.

We’re built kind of like this, right?

In case you haven’t guessed yet, this team was the 1969 world champion New York Mets.

Not at all comparing Morton to Seaver or Karstens to Koosman, just saying stranger things have happened than for a team with a bad offense to win it all.

by bucdaddy on Jun 29, 2011 1:17 PM EDT reply actions  

it'

#AllTheBuntsAreBad!

by Slick1 on Jun 29, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's not important at all in the grand scheme of things...

Scoring runs is all that matters and there are plenty of ways to do that.

#AllTheBuntsAreBad!

by Slick1 on Jun 29, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

FTFY
Scoring more runs than your opponent is all that matters and there are plenty of ways to do that.

by BurgherKing on Jun 29, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

walk-single-HR=3

Walk-walk-single-double=possible 3 depending on speed of runner who hit single, if not then another single is needed to =3

by buccoben on Jun 29, 2011 2:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Whitey's Cardinals

1982, last in homers, fifth in runs, first in OBP.

World champions.

1985, next to last in homers (the Pirates were last), first in OBP.

101 wins.

Walks, speed, pitching, defense.

by bucdaddy on Jun 29, 2011 3:22 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

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