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Pirates 6, Jays 2: Bucs Finish Interleague Play With Winning Record

TORONTO, CANADA - JUNE 30:  Jeff Karstens #27 of the Pittsburgh Pirates delivers a pitch during MLB interleague game action against the Toronto Blue Jays June 30, 2011 at Rogers Centre in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. (Photo by Brad White/Getty Images)

With a woeful offense, eight million injuries, and Brandon Wood in the DH spot, I had no high hopes for the Pirates' offense tonight, figuring that Jeff Karstens might have to hang zeroes for hours if the Bucs were to have a shot. Instead, the Bucs scored in the first (thanks to a leadoff triple by Alex Presley, who came home on a grounder by Andrew McCutchen) and fifth (led by a double by Josh Harrison, who scored on a sacrifice fly by Presley). 

They then got a break leading off the sixth, as Lyle Overbay hit a catchable fly ball to shallow left that three Blue Jays ran after but none caught. Overbay ended up at third when the the Jays airmailed to throw to second, then came home on a double to deep right by Ronny Cedeno. Then Wood himself crushed a two-run homer.

The Jays managed to score two in the fifth on solo homers by J.P. Arencibia and Yunel Escobar, but Jeff Karstens was otherwise effective, doing his usual thing, throwing one strike after another - 64 of his 88 pitches went for strikes. Chris Resop, Tony Watson and Jose Veras preserved his lead.

There was also a weird incident where Matt Diaz slid to break up a double play, and Escobar, a former teammate of his in Atlanta, pretty much punched him in the stomach with the ball. This was these two teams' last game against one another, though, so it doesn't look like this will develop into an ongoing story. The Pirates didn't retaliate, unless you consider winning a form of retaliation. The Bucs leave Canada with an 8-7 interleague record after winning their last three series. That's a big improvement over the usual, eh?

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"The Pirates didn't retaliate, unless you consider winning a form of retaliation."

So could we say that this entire season so far is retaliation for last season?

So onto my love rocket, climb, Inside tank of fuel is not fuel, but love.

by IAPiratesFan on Jun 30, 2011 10:07 PM EDT reply actions  

The Bucs score so many runs

it gets hard to keep track


"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente

by michaelbro8 on Jul 1, 2011 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, I didn’t. Just a mistake.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 1, 2011 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Either way

Excellent win for the Bucs. You know, I now expect them to compete in every game they play. It’s been a while since I’ve felt that way about this ballclub. And doing it with the cast of characters they have, Wood, Diaz, Cedeno, d’Arnaud, AP. Very impressed with the results so far.

by Enchinga on Jun 30, 2011 10:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Frankarsteins -

Is the freakin’ Energizer Bunny.

Yes, he gave up the obligatory nobody-on HRs, but come on. The guy’s 6-4 W-L, and scattered 5 hits over 7.0 IP

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 30, 2011 10:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Good to see another road win.

Amazing to see the turn-around for the Bucs on the road.

Was just checking out the standings (no, no, not the NL Central!!) and was looking at the poor KC Royals. Their record looks like a duplicate of the 2010 Pirates. 1 game under .500 at home and 14 games under .500 on the road. Yikes!

by impliedi on Jun 30, 2011 10:17 PM EDT reply actions  

"... checking out the standings (no, no, not the NL Central!!)..."

Well, you should check the NL Central.

MIL 44 38
STL 44 38
PIT 41 39 (.513) 2.0
CIN 42 40 (.512) 2.0

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 30, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trust me cf2, I've been secretly checking the NL Central standings everyday.

But I feel wrong doing so, like I’m going to jinx the good play or something.

Oops, now my secret’s out.

by impliedi on Jun 30, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Note the loss column

1 behind the leaders, 1 ahead of the ostensibly tied Reds.

This weekend in DC could be HUGE.

Or a huge letdown.

by JRoth95 on Jun 30, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

well put


"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente

by michaelbro8 on Jul 1, 2011 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

No. I disagree

They’re in it. Period.

Whether they’ve been lucky or not is irrelevant. We’re halfway through the season and this team is IN IT darnit. I for one love watching the scoreboard for the Brewers/Cards/Reds to lose. I love that we can say any series is a huge series. Watching better baseball is great, but it’s not nearly as great as looking at the standings and seeing us 2 games out.

I for one say SALE THE FUTURE, flags fly forever…let’s go win the division!

by mak_DC on Jul 1, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would've agreed

if you’d left off the last sentence.

Nobody’s getting bent out of shape – we’re all enjoying the hell out of Pirates’ baseball.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 1, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm all for going for it...

but Sale the future? Really? So you want another 6 yrs of losing after this little window closes? Pass. I say let’s try to supplement this current team, smartly (is that even a word?), without saling the future. It can be done.

#AllTheBuntsAreBad!

by Slick1 on Jul 1, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

a little exaggeration...

Definitely don’t want to sale the future. I completely agree with smartly upgrading though even at the cost of a mid-level prospect.

by mak_DC on Jul 1, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

fair enough...

and we have enough depth that we could handle trading a mid-level prospect.

#AllTheBuntsAreBad!

by Slick1 on Jul 1, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's the key

Obviously, a trade can always go wrong (think the Yanks would like a do-over on the Nady trade?), but in principle, a trade of a high minors SP and a mid-minors position player would have little to no long term effect on the org, while the return could be a difference-maker. Going from 72 to 77 wins is meaningless. Going from 80 to 85ª would be huge.

ª No, a 2-3 month rental shouldn’t be worth 5 wins, but A. guys get like that sometimes, and B. given the makeup of our lineup right now, one additional .350 wOBA bat could make a huge difference, changing a lot of innings from 2 hits, a K, and a GIDP into 3 hits and a run or two.

by JRoth95 on Jul 1, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh I agree...

some things are hard to quantify. I remember when the Braves traded for Fred McGriff back in 93. I don’t remember his WAR for the year or with the Braves but that Braves team was a different team after they got him and they closed a double digit lead against the Giants and MVP Barry Bonds. I’m a stats guy but I’ll be the first to admit that there are intangible things that are very hard to quantify: chemistry, lineup protection, leadership, etc. As you point out, sometimes all it takes is one player who can prolong an inning and that might be the difference between seeing a starting pitcher in the 7th or a relief pitcher in the 5th or 6th.

#AllTheBuntsAreBad!

by Slick1 on Jul 1, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

And for the record...

SSS warning, I think we have seen some of this with Alex Pressley since he’s been on the team. He’s helped to lengthen the lineup a bit since he has been with the team and frankly has made the transition to a Tabataless lineup pretty seemless so far.

#AllTheBuntsAreBad!

by Slick1 on Jul 1, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep

When we went through that utterly offenseless stretch a few weeks ago – didn’t we go like a week without scoring more than 3 runs? – it was so obvious the difference between having just 4 competent/not ice-cold hitters as opposed to only 3. You can have your 1-3 guys all go 2/4, but if no one else gets a hit (esp. XBH), that can add up to no runs at all.

One of the things it feels like we’ve gotten is Paul, Wood, Harrison, and McKenry not hitting well, but hitting just enough that, as you say, innings are extended, runners are advancing, people are getting in from 3rd.

I wonder if anyone has studied lineup inflection points – if there are certain quantities of hits/walks/XBH, and distributions of them, that create jumps in scoring. E.g., we know that 1 hit all game will almost always result in fewer runs than 10, but is is a smooth curve? I suspect that, once you get above 12 baserunners and, say, 7 hits, both average and median runs scored are significantly higher than with 10 and 5, with 10 and 5 being closer to 8 and 4.

Anyway.

by JRoth95 on Jul 1, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Truly amazing we are only two back. Go Bucs!

by CO_Bucs on Jul 1, 2011 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Won 4 of 5 Interleague Matchups

If I’m not mistaken, no Bucs team ever won 4 of 5 Interleague matchups before.

by SteelStealth on Jun 30, 2011 10:18 PM EDT reply actions  

This win guarantees...

…that they are above .500 at the halfway mark of the season tomorrow.

by SteveG on Jun 30, 2011 10:18 PM EDT reply actions  

There was also a weird incident where Matt Diaz slid to break up a double play

The weird incident? Matt Diaz was on base.

by CptnAwesome on Jun 30, 2011 10:18 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

The weird incident? Matt Diaz was on base.

Oh, you mean the Matt Diaz who’s been gotten on base 10 times (out of 28 PAs) in the last 2 weeks??

by impliedi on Jun 30, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Accurate or not

It was still funny.

by JRoth95 on Jun 30, 2011 10:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I’m going to write a game show skit for SNL called, “WHO’S MORE SENSITIVE!?!?” The first question will be “impliedi, or a virgin on prom night?” Hilarity will ensue when Anthony Weiner makes a risque cameo.

by CptnAwesome on Jun 30, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

YOU’RE AN INTERNET SUPERSTAR, KID!

by CptnAwesome on Jun 30, 2011 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

caps failure

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

by Elektrostal_Kid on Jul 1, 2011 7:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Caps have been failing for years

by CO_Bucs on Jul 1, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

That will be nothing compared to the show I'll have on a competing channel (ESPN??) called

“Let’s Judge a Baseball Player on What He Does in His First Month, Make the Assumption That He’s a Waste of a Free Agent Pick-Up, Completely Ignore What He Does the Next Two Months, and Make the Same Tired Cracks About Said Player as If the Player Was Still Performing at the First Month’s Level”.

I’m going to have to work on that title though.

by impliedi on Jun 30, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Acronym works.

LJABPOWHDIHFMMTATHAWOAFAPUCIWHDTHNTMAMTSTCASPAIFPWSPATFML

Ol’ Lejabpow, for short hand.

Thank you Ned Colletti.

by ryebr3ad on Jun 30, 2011 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Incidentally, Rosie O’Donnell’s agent had to tell her the same thing when she tried out for one of the hosting gigs on the TV Guide Channel after getting fired from The View.

by CptnAwesome on Jun 30, 2011 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

got to agree with you

I’ve been down on the Diaz signing from the beginning, but over the past month or so he’s looking like he might be useful when used properly.

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.

by WHYG Zane Smith on Jun 30, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Indeed. You have to use the subjunctive mood form of “were” at the end there.

I don’t really like grammar jokes, but that one was mildly amusing enough that I think I’ll go with it.

by CptnAwesome on Jun 30, 2011 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Joe Posnanski has a good <a href=“http://. ”http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2011/06/least-exciting-player-ever.html" target="_blank">http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2011/06/least-exciting-player-ever.html " >post about how Dunn might be the most boring player in baseball ever.

Dunn has gone in my mental bank of guys to mention whenever I get into arguments with people about why the Pirates just don’t go out and blow money on a big free agent.

by CptnAwesome on Jun 30, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

ironically, if the pirates had gone out and signed dunn as a free agent a few years back (as some here were advocating), it would have been a pretty good deal…

by Captain Easychord on Jun 30, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

If we had gotten the same $10 million a deal for those 2 years or whatever, probably, yeah.

by CptnAwesome on Jun 30, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

And I don't mean to pick on Adam Dunn. I know power hitters are streaky and he's just having a bad 1/2 season...

And Dunn could return to his normal numbers by the end of the season.

But he’s in the first year of a 4-year, $56 million contract.

What are the odds that he makes it to year 4 with the White Sox??

by impliedi on Jun 30, 2011 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it’s more likely Ozzie reaches out to his Venezuelan contacts and attempts to get Ugueth Urbina to murder Dunn.

by CptnAwesome on Jun 30, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

No need

Plenty of White Sox fans would volunteer to do the deed for free right about now.

by maguro on Jun 30, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Adam Dunn's mental approach to hitting:

a) when I hit it: ball go far
b) when I miss it: not so far


"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente

by michaelbro8 on Jul 1, 2011 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

He actually kinda looks like Robin Yount in that picture, to me. Albeit with a less impressive mustache.

by CptnAwesome on Jun 30, 2011 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yount definitely looks older, but I can see it

by CptnAwesome on Jun 30, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Morgan Spurlock is a better Yount doppelganger.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 1, 2011 3:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

it’s milwaukee… everyone has a mustache and mullet fever!

by Captain Easychord on Jun 30, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still remember making my own dice baseball game as a kid...

I created a card for just about every player in the majors by using each players’ stats to create probabilities.

And Rob Deer’s card was the most amazing. For the 11 possible dice rolls (2-12), I think 6 of them were strikeouts, 2 were HRs and the rest were all outs (or something like that.)

Talk about an All-or-Nothing player.

by impliedi on Jun 30, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had a game called All Star baseball that was very similar but with spinners. Bernie Carbo was the same way.

Yinzers uber alles

by BostonBuc on Jul 1, 2011 7:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

and his defense sucks

caught a snippet of the CWS game, where he grabbed a ground ball at first with bases loaded, ran to first base and missed the bag, threw home and just got the runner.

by Central*Scrutinizer on Jun 30, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Diaz had a .685 OPS in May and .686 in June, and he’s a corner outfielder. That’s not acceptable, and even that pretends that his awful April didn’t happen.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 1, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

And Jose Tabata had a .671 OPS in June.

And last time I checked, he was a corner outfielder too. I guess Tabata’s not acceptable either?

by impliedi on Jul 1, 2011 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

And, oh yeah, Tabata's an everyday player, while Diaz has only gotten 31 starts as a platoon guy.

Shouldn’t your everyday starting left fielder (corner outfielder) have a significantly better OPS than a part-time corner outfielder?

by impliedi on Jul 1, 2011 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

And to show you how absurd it is to use SSS for a part-time player....

If Diaz were to get, say a single and a HR in his next 2 ABs, his OPS for the season would rise 40 points!

by impliedi on Jul 1, 2011 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pretty funny thing to say about a guy who hasn’t had a homer all season, which is kind of the point. I’m not having this discussion with you. We’ve had it before. And you’re the one breaking Diaz’s season into tiny little sample sizes, not me. Look at the overall numbers – they’re awful. This is a guy who, unlike Tabata, shouldn’t get a lot of rope, for obvious reasons. There’s no point in comparing them, especially when I’m not saying Tabata has performed well this month.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 1, 2011 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Charlie, I don't understand why you try to tear apart what I say, without really reading what I'm saying...

There’s been a consistent Diaz-bashing going on.

He was terrible in April and has hit better the last 2 months.

Some people can’t seem to put that first month out of their minds (even DK mentioned that today)

From DK’s chat today: Diaz, for all the grief he gets, is actually hitting a better pace than most seem to realize. I think he’s been Boehringer-ed, to borrow my own term from the past. That means a guy gets off to a bad start, gets branded right away as a bust, and not much he does after that changes it.

CptnAwesome makes a crack about it being a surprise that Diaz is on base.

I counter with the stats to show that he’s been pretty good the last 2 weeks.

You bring up his stats and say that’s unacceptable for a corner outfielder.

I mention that Tabata’s stats last month were worse, he’s also a corner outfielder and a starter and you act like that’s no big deal.

I certainly EXPECT significantly better numbers from my starting left fielder than my platoon RFer. This is nothing to say that Tabata shouldn’t be a starter or anything.

But you make these generalizations (like sub. 700 OPS for a month is unacceptable for a corner outfielder) and then when the other corner outfielder is having a worse month, you decide to give him a free pass. I don’t understand it.

by impliedi on Jul 1, 2011 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Perhaps you can explain it to me, then?

Why is a .708 OPS in June “unacceptable” for a corner outfielder like Matt Diaz and a .671 OPS in June for Tabata gets a “no comparison”.

Either .708 is acceptable or not for a corner outfielder

And .671 is acceptable or not for a corner outfielder.

If you say Diaz is “unacceptable”, then I would have to say that Tabata’s June was “unacceptable”, as well.

It’s like you expect more out of your reserve guys than your starters. I can’t wrap my head around that kind of thinking.

Can you at least admit that Matt Diaz has hit much better these last 2 weeks? I just would love to hear you say that. (But I know you won’t, you’ve already branded Diaz an unacceptable failure, like Brandon Wood and Lyle Overbay before him, and no matter what he does from here on out isn’t going to change your opinion of him.)

by impliedi on Jul 1, 2011 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Your Diaz OPS's are so wrong - you and ddtoddwin

Well for one – that “.708 June OPS” is really a .686 OPS. Before the Toronto series, Diaz had two multi-hit games since May 8. He’s drawn 4 walks since April 27. In the last 12 AB’s Diaz has raised his season-long OPS 32 points.

Anyone can hit better “during the last two weeks” – I mean come on, are you guys serious with this Diaz nonsense? It’s one thing if we had this conversation in August after two solid months

Tabata is still a maturing prospect, plays excellent defense in LF @ PNC which is often referred to as “another CF”. If you have a shit OPS comparison, please come up with something than “he’s hit better the past two weeks”.

Finally you’re asking Charlie to just admit Diaz’s is hitting well the past two weeks. What qualifies as hitting well? Bunch of singles – 2 walks in like the last 42 ABs, 1 double the past month?

What the hell are you guys talking about. Seriously.

by CO_Bucs on Jul 1, 2011 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Your Diaz OPS’s are so wrong – you and ddtoddwin
Well for one – that ".708 June OPS" is really a .686 OPS.

CO_Bucs, you may want to actually look at the stats first. Diaz OPS in June IS .708, .not .686.

The reason I think Charlie listed .686 in June is because places like Baseball-reference hadn’t updated the stats with last night’s ballgame yet. It wasn’t Charlie’s fault. When I went there myself I saw .686 and then looked and saw that they only had the stats updated through June 29. If you look today, it shows his June OPS as .708. June 30th is still part of June, isn’t it?

by impliedi on Jul 1, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

On this one - I stand corrected

First, I obviously looked at the stats.

Second, The counting stats were updated but not things like OPS. Diaz definitely did not have a .743 OPS in June like someone referred to in a post yesterday though.

Third, it still does not change the fact that your arguments on Diaz are terrible. Of course you give Tabata more leeway that Diaz – it’s a lot more than one month of OPS.

by CO_Bucs on Jul 1, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right, and who cares about his OPS anyway?

Diaz is carrying a .280 wOBA which is not good by any standard. I think DIaz will come around but I don’t get this backlash by impliedi and others who think that fans shouldn’t be upset with Diaz performance so far. They absolutely should. He was a free agent acquisition with a long track record who was supposed to provide some consistency and stability while the young core developed. He has not come close to doing that, though he is showing signs of life, and fans have a right to be upset. If he is not going to provide consistency than he should be replaced with someone younger who will be around longer and may have a higer ceiling. Pointing out that others, like Tabata, have been performing poorly is incredibly silly for several reasons: 1) Tabata is developing and his performance was likely to be volatile 2) Tabata is inexpensive so he his net value is still positive 3) Tabata has a much higher ceiling and as such it pays to be more patient 4) Diaz is a free agent acquisition who was brought on board to provide stability – he has not done that yet 5) Diaz is older and not in the long term plans so is much more expendable 6) and other players performances doesn’t change the fact that…you know…Diaz is playing poorly.

Obviously this post was meant as much for impliedi as you since you and I agree on most of these points.

#AllTheBuntsAreBad!

by Slick1 on Jul 1, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hi Slick!!

Charlie was the one who first mentioned OPS, it wasn’t me.

I guess the fundamental disagreement I have with you is that Matt Diaz (or any other bench/role player/part-timer), regardless of how much time in the majors – rookie or vet, will almost ALWAYS perform more poorly, more often than a full-time starter. That’s why Matt Diaz isn’t a 150-starts-a -year. I certainly didn’t expect Matt Diaz to come in here and provide stability. I don’t understand how you can expect a role player to provide stability. He will AND SHOULD experience more bad times hitting than your starters. That’s why he isn’t a starter!

Certainly Matt Diaz wasn’t brought to the Pirates to carry this offense. And so I think his early struggles are no more cause for alarm than anybody else’s.

by impliedi on Jul 1, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

And I'm not upset that people are criticizing Diaz.

I just think that if you’re going to point your finger at Diaz, you should point 2 fingers at every underperforming starter on this team.

I don’t believe in bashing role players and then giving the up-and-coming stars free passes.

They are either all to blame or none of them. That’s why I’m arguing.

It was the same for the old Brandon Wood argument from before. This guy is a reclamation project. If he performs, great. But to insinuate that the Pirates offensive struggles (as was done in an earlier post) are directly linked to having a player like Wood in the line-up is absolutely crazy.

If Alvarez, McCutchen, Tabata and Walker all underperform all year – it’s the end of the road for the Pirates. Doesn’t matter a hill of beans who the starting SS or C or RF are.

So for me, I’m more about seeing what’s wrong with Alvarez than worrying about whether Matt Diaz is hurting the offense or not.

By all means, if you wish to blame the poor offense solely on the bench guys and role players, be my guest.

by impliedi on Jul 1, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why is a .708 OPS in June "unacceptable" for a corner outfielder like Matt Diaz and a .671 OPS in June for Tabata gets a "no comparison".

Because Jose Tabata is 22 and part of the future of this team, and thus you have to give him a lot of rope. Diaz is on the team purely because of his present-day value to the team, not his future value. Basically, the exact same thing I said last time we had this exact same conversation about Pedro Alvarez. You have to put up with it when players like Alvarez and Tabata struggle.

Also because Tabata’s OPS+ for the year is 100, and Diaz’s is 75.

Can you at least admit that Matt Diaz has hit much better these last 2 weeks?

Yes. The aging corner outfielder with the OPS+ of 75 has hit better the past two weeks.

(But I know you won’t, you’ve already branded Diaz an unacceptable failure, like Brandon Wood and Lyle Overbay before him, and no matter what he does from here on out isn’t going to change your opinion of him.)

You’re talking about three guys with OPSes below .670 for the season. Overbay was recently benched, Wood hardly plays anymore, and then you’ve got Matt Diaz. These are the three guys that show how massively unfair I am?

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 1, 2011 3:07 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Charlie, I know you and I are not going to agree on this, but I'll make my points one last time to see if I can make them any clearer.

Look, I’m in no way implying that Tabata should be benched or tossed aside or given up on while he struggles. I fully get that Tabata is a main cog for this team now and moving forward. The only reason I even tossed Tabata into the discussion is because you wrote this statement:

Diaz had a .685 OPS in May and .686 in June, and he’s a corner outfielder. That’s not acceptable,

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I read that as it being your opinion that having a .680s-ish OPS (forget that Diaz was actually.708 in June) is completely UNACCEPTABLE for a corner outfielder. If that is, in fact, your opinion (not mine), then it shouldn’t be hard to admit that Jose Tabata had an UNACCEPTABLE June. That’s all I’m saying. You made the statement that it was unacceptable and threw in the qualifier that he’s a corner outfielder.

Does it mean Matt Diaz should become the everyday left fielder on this team for the next 5 years? Certainly not, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to compare two players and for me to be confused when you say the bench guy (who hit better than the starter for the past month) is terrible, but the starter gets the free pass.

You and I have a huge fundamental difference on how we see players (and that’s perfectly fine.). Your opinion is shared by many, but I still don’t really understand it.

You want to give leeway when the stars have a bad month. (I agree). You don’t want to give leeway when the bench guys have a bad month or even two (I don’t agree).

You seem to have enormous expectations for bench guys, which I can’t figure out. The whole reason that Matt Diaz and Garrett Jones are part-time starters, is because they are not good enough to be full-time players. Yet, it seems like you expect more out of a Diaz, then you do out of a Tabata. My feeling is that if Tabata is the better player, by being the starter, he should be a significantly better player than a part-timer (or God-forbid a bench guy, like Wood!!). He should have better numbers AND should have fewer bad times.

To me, every single player will have at least one bad month a year. It’s expected, and that’s why I don’t get excited when a player has a bad April (any more than if he has a bad September). Even Albert Pujols is going to have an off-month at the plate just about every year. So, if your starters are pretty much guaranteed to have one bad month, shouldn’t the part-timers be expected to have more (maybe 2 bad months)? I don’t know why you see it as acceptable for a starter to struggle, but you don’t have that same expectation out of a bench player.

Again, on top of that, not only should Tabata hit better than Diaz, but his cold streaks should be fewer and shorter than Diaz. Tabata is the more talented player. But, he has struggled, just like everyone else. I think it’s bizarre that you seem to want to cast more blame for an ineffective offense on the bench guys than you do on your starters.

But, to be honest, does it really matter what your “corner outfielders” do when your 2nd baseman and center fielder are probably going to give you mid .800 OPS’s??

You go on and continue to blame the bench. I will look to the starters to kick it into gear.

I’ll say it again, the key to this offense getting better for the rest of the year is Pedro Alvarez getting on track, the other 3 of the core (Tabata, Walker, and McCutchen) picking up their game waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than what’s going on with Matt Diaz.

That being said, I’ve been a big supporter of Lyle Overbay from the beginning. He’s obviously been terrible at the plate for most of this year. Now, should Lyle Overbay be given the benefit of the doubt that he’ll be able to turn this around? If you’re going to give more rope to young guys, shouldn’t you be willing to give some rope to the vets?

by impliedi on Jul 1, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't even get the point you are trying to make...

in a quick 1-2 sentece summary what is it (if you don’t mind)? I can’t tell if you are arguing for Diaz, against Tabata or arguing just to argue. Reading this point you don’t seem to understand the why it’s more important for the Pirates to be patient with Tabata and not Diaz. Just wanted to be clear that’s what you were trying to say. It sounds to me like you are using the sample size argument in favor of keeping Diaz around but using Tabata as way to point out some kind of logical fallacy in Charlie’s argument.

#AllTheBuntsAreBad!

by Slick1 on Jul 1, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey Slick!! I try to make these things simple, but they always turn into wordy novels!!

Here’s the summary of my argument (I could’ve saved a lot of typing if I had just written this in the beginning.):

1. For all intents and purposes, starting MLB players are “starters” because of any or all of the following reasons (more talent, high upside, their bad times are smaller or less frequent, they get results/most out of their talent). So hopefully, we can all agree that to be a starter in the MLB, you’ve got to be pretty good.

2. Starters are better players than back-ups. (In my eyes, they should be significantly better.)

3. Performance expectations for starters should be significantly higher than back-ups. While .750 OPS would be expected for the back-up outfielder, it is expected that the starter have at least .850 (or whatever numbers you care to put in there).

4. If it can be assumed that the best players in baseball are liable to have a bad month somewhere during the course of a season, it should be assumed that back-ups and role players, being less talented, will have longer and more frequent bouts of bad play.

As a simple example: It can be assumed that Andrew McCutchen will have a bad month somewhere during the course of the year. He is a starting MLB player for a reason. I can forgive McCutchen having a few bad weeks, it’s natural and expected. If it goes on for a long time, that is unexpected.

Matt Diaz is not a starter in MLB because he doesn’t have that same ability that McCutchen does. I would fully expect him to have more bad spells and that they would last longer than McCutchen every single season.

My issue is this: don’t call out Matt Diaz because he had a horrible April, call his numbers unacceptable for a corner outfielder, because if you do then you have to apply that logic even more stringently to the starters. If Diaz has a bad April and May, I see that as the same as Tabata having a bad June. In other words, it’s expected. I’m not saying Tabata (when he returns) should be pulled from the line-up, in fact he’s performing as I’d expect. But, the same shoudl be said for Diaz. A slow start, yes, but he has less talent (theoretically) than Tabata. He SHOULD have more rough times.

But, to call out one and not the other, seems to be placing the blame one-sidedly.

The issue I’ve had with Charlie’s arguments, it that he seems to believe that bench guys should perform properly out of the gate, otherwise it is unacceptable. My point is that these guys are bench guys because they have less talent. And if you think that Matt Diaz should be productive from April – October, every time he’s out there, you’re kidding yourself. If he were, Diaz would be starting. MY personal belief is that Charlie has put too much emphasis on the struggles of part-time and role guys, but doesn’t apply that same justice to the starters.

Maybe one more bad example for you!!:
Expectations.

On a scale of 1-10, say my expectations for Andrew McCutchen are a 9 based on his talent.

My expectations for Matt Diaz are a 4 based on his.

If McCutchen is performing at an 7 level and Diaz is performing at a 2 level they are both underperforming.

However, I would argue that McCutchen is the star. He should not underperform (at least not with any regularity). That’s why his expectations are so high to begin with. In this case, I would say that McCutchen is the bigger disappointment to me (for this example, certainly not with his play in reality) than Diaz.

I believe Charlie’s argument would be (just guessing), McCutchen is the star, so you give him more leeway. I agree that you give him leeway, but I wouldn’t agree that it should be more. In fact, I argue the opposite.

So, really, I’m saying Diaz performed poorly in April, and underperformed in May and now in June is probably about where I’d expect him to be. Diaz is performing at about what most would have expected him to. So, I’d argue that for what Diaz is (part-time starter), he’s performing adequately.

Charlie’s contention seems to be that you don’t blame the stars, because even if they are underperforming, they are still performing at a higher level than the bench.

I counter that ALL who underperform should be to blame, but ALL players must be given some leeway to fail. I think starters should have less, because they’ve got more talent. I think Charlie believes they should get more leeway (when they are young) because they have a higher upside and lifespan with the team.

I don’t believe I cleared anything up and this post was pretty long. Sorry about that.

by impliedi on Jul 1, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry Slick, I realized I went on a long discussion and didn't really answer your question.
I can’t tell if you are arguing for Diaz, against Tabata or arguing just to argue

I’m actually arguing for both. Both are doing the jobs I’d expect of them. Both had some rough patches during the year. I’m merely saying that if a .685 OPS in a month is “unacceptable for a corner outfielder”, as Charlie states then Tabata also was “unacceptable” for the month of June. To me one bad month for a starter (Tabata) is on par with 2 bad months for a part-time starter (Diaz). Tabata is clearly the more talented of the 2 players. But that doesn’t mean you say one is unacceptable and the other gets a free pass. It’s either both or neither. That’s my argument.

by impliedi on Jul 1, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

No worries...

you actually did anwer my question(s). I guess asking for a 2 sentence summary wasn’t realisitic; thanks for answering regardless. I think it comes down to semantics for me. I agree with most of your points about expectations for role player and starters, however I would add a caveat for young developing starters. I would say my expectations for Diaz were pretty simple: start a couple of times a week, don’t kill the team on defense and hit lefties (including a solid display of extra-base power). Not only has he not hit lefties, he has shown me that he has an absolutely terrible approach at the plate. He is a hacker, flat out. And when he doesn’t hit his slumps are going to be a drain on the team because he doesn’t get on base enough. Personally, I’ve seen enough of Diaz to know I don’t want him on the team next year because players with this approach drive me insane. But, as you said, his sample size this season is small, he has a history for hitting lefties and is showing signs of life so I am not in favor of cutting Diaz at this point. I ride him out for the rest of the season and think about replacing his roster spot with Hague or Pearce next year (or possible free agent though I don’t think there are many appealing options).

#AllTheBuntsAreBad!

by Slick1 on Jul 1, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the main problem is that Diaz was brought in to do something very specific: provide the right-handed half of a platoon and pick up other playing time basically as a fourth OFer would. Given his career, it was expected that he could provide a certain level of production in this role.

Tábata’s role is as a developing cornerstone. He will play every day unless he is hurt or shows that he is struggling so mightily that he needs a “reboot”. He is still showing us what he can be in the future, and so far in about a seasons worth of ABs, the early returns are fairly positive.

This is the difference between the two and why Diaz struggles are not viewed with patience, especially since he has been subar to what he has established himself as through his career, and why I don’t think it is “both or neither”.

And sure, Diaz is already paid and actually did OPS just over .700 in June so we might as well ride him out at this point and hope he keeps hitting better.

by poorboywilly on Jul 1, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good summary

If Diaz had been brought in purely as a 4th OF, we’d be not-thrilled with his performance, but we also wouldn’t still be hanging his April around his neck. But as it is, we really want him to take 1/3 of the PAs in RF so that Jones wouldn’t have to be exposed, and he hasn’t been good enough at that specific role. The ugliness of his play/approach has only exacerbated that.

by JRoth95 on Jul 1, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude, Diaz has had a sub-.700 OPS the last two months. A .490 OPS in May will make anything look good.

by CO_Bucs on Jul 1, 2011 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

7 XBH in 9 hits

I think dtoddwin’s post from this morning was taped up in the lockerroom.

by JRoth95 on Jun 30, 2011 10:25 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

In a publicity stunt, Hurdle uses duct tape to affix the post, and then invites Roberto Alomar to add the requisite finishing touches.

by CptnAwesome on Jun 30, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

This

amazed the shit out of me

"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"

by CAGGS on Jun 30, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't get too excited

a dropped popup “2B”, a hustle double, awful defense on Ronny’s double. They seemed to be playing Cutch pretty shallow in CF also. Woody’s HR is a lazy fly out at PNC. I think Chase was another misplayed bloop single but can’t remember.

Apparently Elvis’ was legit though.

by Mr. E on Jul 1, 2011 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wait, what?

Wood’s HR was to LF – not the short porch, but not the deep part, either.

In fact, if you look at it on HR Tracker, and then compare the map of PNC Park, is clear that it would have been a homerun here as well – not deep, but without any question.

That said, you’re right that Overbay’s 2B wasn’t even a legit hit, let alone an XBH.

by JRoth95 on Jul 1, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

You beat me to it—I was just about to say that site said it would be a HR in 25 parks.

by poorboywilly on Jul 1, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

390 to more or less straightaway LF gets it done most places.

I gotta say, he qualifies as a worthwhile pickup – his D has been plus, and his offense has been terrible, but also by far the best of his MLB career. He’s provided positive value, and in fact would be worth half a win above replacement if he played full time (which he shouldn’t!). For a backup SS, he’s more than adequate.

Actually, I’m wondering what happens when Pedro comes up. I guess d’Arnaud goes down, but I like that both he and Wood can play SS, thus keeping Ciriaco far, far away.

by JRoth95 on Jul 1, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

In fact

His bat has been as good or better than 4 everyday SS.

by JRoth95 on Jul 1, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was left-center

right over the 370 sign. I believe our left-center is like 550 feet or so

by Mr. E on Jul 1, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

ha. I’ve no idea how to read the PNC one, but it says woody went 388. It didn’t look that far over the wall to me when I saw it live. I’m not convinced the ball doesn’t carry different either, but ok, 2/7 of our XBHs were legit

by Mr. E on Jul 1, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Turn on the "With Range Rings" radio button

You can see that it landed 20° from the LF foul pole, and when you look at PNC, you can see that the wall is shy of 390 at that point (the 389 mark I think is at 22.5° from the pole). There’s actually a HR that landed in more or less that precise spot at PNC.

It looked shallower than it was, I think, because Rogers has that dumb screening material above the wall and below the stands – it almost reached the bottom of the stands, but that’s 15’ or more above the warning track, while PNC’s wall is ~7’ high in left.

by JRoth95 on Jul 1, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

hmm

I just found a graphic that says PNC park LF wall is 389 feet. I don’t know what to believe now

by Mr. E on Jul 1, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

question gentlemen: how many of you guys noticed that Brandon Wood has once again changed the way he bats?

he now rests the bat on his shoulder and keeps his hands pulled to his chest until he begins his swing. it looked much better tonight even if he didnt hit that homer.

by white angus on Jun 30, 2011 10:26 PM EDT reply actions  

To be honest, I hadn't noticed until you mentioned it (and I went back to watch the highlight of the HR again)

In fairness, I kinda forgot what Wood’s batting stance looked like, since, y’know, he’d actually have to be in the line-up for me to see him! (Yeah, that’s directed right at you, Mr. Hurdle!!!)

More Wood please!!!! (at least more than 2 starts in the last 2 weeks)

Actually, I don’t mind seeing d’Arnaud getting some playing time, so I’ll let it slide this time.

by impliedi on Jun 30, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

his hands have changed twice now since he has arrived in Pitt

Wood used to keep his hands up and back but drop them way down when starting his swing. but tonight, his hands were literally against his chest when he began to load his swing.

Hurdle has said that he is working with Wood on his swing, and it does look better than before. the hard part is repeating it without going back to dropping his back shoulder.

by white angus on Jun 30, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

gotta give him credit

he looked like a jackass in his first AB then adjusted and hit a big homer. good work

by theatrain on Jun 30, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

The homer was made even better than usual because Walk was going on in the broadcast about why Hurdle wasn’t doing the usual sacrifice bunt in that situation.

by CptnAwesome on Jun 30, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I should note that it wasn’t entirely clear to me whether Walk thought the Pirates should bunt. He was mostly calling attention to the fact Hurdle wasn’t bunting, since he usually does there. But I’d bet Walk wanted the bunt.

by CptnAwesome on Jun 30, 2011 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sign of change

Ive never been to Pittsburgh, Im from VA and I live in NY. People also react to finding out Im a Pirates fan with total confusion and curiosity than anything. As in “why the hell would you choose to root for that team”

Someone got mad for the first time ever Tues night. Things are changing!!

by GTrain on Jun 30, 2011 10:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh, people get mad at me all the time

But what does this have to do with the Pirates?

by JRoth95 on Jun 30, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

dude, Pitt aint that far. you need to go see PNC Park at least once.

i live in central Virginia myself, and its about a 7 hour drive. but PNC is worth it at least once a season for me.

by white angus on Jun 30, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

In sort of the same vein, I keep meaning to leave Pittsburgh and drive down to Baltimore to catch a game at Camden. Both those parks seem like they’re worth seeing no matter what your allegiance.

by CptnAwesome on Jun 30, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was at Camden tonight

It was the second-to-last stop on my mega-trip. Though nothing compares to PNC, it’s neck and neck with all others in the race for 2nd. Plus, I got 2 dogs and a beer for $5 outside the stadium – boo-ya!

by bruinbowler on Jul 1, 2011 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

I get that sometimes.

Being from Iowa in all, but then they find out I’m a Steelers fan and then it all makes sense.

So onto my love rocket, climb, Inside tank of fuel is not fuel, but love.

by IAPiratesFan on Jun 30, 2011 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Earlier in the season, I (drunkenly) got into an argument with a friend about the Pirates. He was very pessimistic and said they’re losers and won’t even get to .500 in the next few years. As we argued, he said I should put my money where my mouth is and bet on it. As I debated it, he sweetened the deal: If the Pirates get 78 wins this season or one of the next two, I win $500. If not, he gets $500. Witnesses the next day confirmed the bet and we shook on it when sober.

I’m actually starting to feel like I could win it this year.

by CptnAwesome on Jun 30, 2011 10:59 PM EDT reply actions  

First round of Arns

is on you.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 30, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

The pie chart slice for a round of IC as a proportion of my overall winnings would look eerily similar to the pie chart slice showing the amount of time you’re sober in any given day

by CptnAwesome on Jun 30, 2011 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't sugar-coat it, please.

Say what you mean.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 1, 2011 6:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hey guys..I'm from over at BlueBirdBanter.

This series was very interesting, you guys have some really nice up and coming prospects and few very nice bullpen arms. I was very intrigued with Jose Veras, he is still quite young, 30 years old, throws heat, and he has sick movement on his pitches.

"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives." - Jackie Robinson

by Joseph Kirby on Jun 30, 2011 11:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Welcome Joseph...

Veras has done pretty nicely, despite a small stretch when he fell apart earlier this year.

Although your Blue Jays certainly had his number when he was with the Yankees and Indians. 11 runs in 16 innings pitched, ouch!!

by impliedi on Jun 30, 2011 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Veras is one of those guys that keeps getting 2nd chances, but nobody seems to want to keep him.

You figure Veras was signed by the Rays in 1998.

Puts up pretty awful numbers throughout the Rays system, but continues to rise, all the way up to AAA. Never plays for the Rays. Gets released.

Rangers sign him in 2005. Pitches in AAA. Gets released.

Yankees sign him in 2006. Pitches in AAA, gets late call-up.

Hurt most of 2007.

Becomes an important piece of the Yankee bull-pen in 2008.

DFA’d in June 2009. Gets traded to the Indians. Gets DFA’d a month later. Goes to AAA. Gets non-tendered after the season.

Signs minor league deal with the Marlins for 2010. Makes the team. DFA’d 2 weeks later. Goes to AAA. Released after the season.

Signs a minor league deal with the Pirates for 2011. ????

Certainly a well-traveled guy, and a guy that every team has had multiple, multiple, multiple opportunities to pick up (with all of the DFAs and signing minor league deals and stuff). Control seems to always be the big question mark for him.

by impliedi on Jun 30, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

For those keeping track at home....

Veras has made 196 appearances in AAA over his career. Wow.

As a comparison, our friend Brian Burres who seems perpetually stuck at AAA has appeared in 82 (granted, most were starts, but still)

by impliedi on Jun 30, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol...Oh I remember Brian Burres when he was a Blue Jay..how could I forget his 85mph fastball.

"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives." - Jackie Robinson

by Joseph Kirby on Jun 30, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Burres had an interesting 2010 with the Pirates.

Made 20 appearances.
Gave up runs in 15 of those appearances.

Although, in one of those scoreless appearances, he only pitched to 1 batter and he walked him.

So he really only appeared 4 times last year, where he faced at least 2 batters and didn’t give up at least one run.

It wasn’t pretty.

by impliedi on Jul 1, 2011 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

By comparison, Veras has had 31 scoreless appearances out of his 39 appearances.

A while back, I decided I liked my own made-up stat of Scoreless Appearances to try and judge pitchers. Even though I know it’s simplistic and many can (and will) punch holes in its importance, to me, the single most important job of a pitcher (esp. a reliever is to come in and not give up runs, whether that’s to 1 guy or multiple innings). Certainly better than ERA, because the SA stat doesn’t care that you get blown up in an appearance (which can drastically inflate an ERA).

So, without further ado, the 2011 Pirates Scoreless Appearances % leaders:

Hanrahan: 86.49%
Wood: 83.33%
Watson: 81.82%
Veras: 79.49%
Resop: 78.95%
Moskos: 77.78%
Beimel: 77.78%
DMcCutchen: 75.00%
Olson: 75.00%
Meek: 70.59%
Crotta: 60.00%
Ascanio: 50.00%

and the starters:
Karstens: 29.41%
Mahlom: 23.53%
Correia: 22.22%
McDonald: 12.50%
Morton: 7.14%
Ohlendorf: 0.00%

by impliedi on Jul 1, 2011 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Karstens is a monster

possibly a large, green one with bolts in his head

by Mr. E on Jul 1, 2011 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Or for more of a comparison....

The career AAA appearances of a few others in the Pirates organization….
Justin Thomas 136
Dan Meyer 130
Steven Jackson 126
Joe Beimel 111

by impliedi on Jul 1, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

so you’re saying we just need to give Steve Jackson more time?

by Mr. E on Jul 1, 2011 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Control seems to always be the big question mark for him.

I always feel sympathy when I read that in a player’s scouting report, because I had the curse of having the exact same line spread about me by girls on campus.

by CptnAwesome on Jun 30, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Veras looks flat out dominant sometimes. It was great watching him in game 2 against the Red Sox. The batters would flinch from the plate and then the ball would dive back into the strike zone.

He sometimes gets wild and has no control, but overall he’s been great.

by CptnAwesome on Jun 30, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, movement on his pitches is disgusting.

"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives." - Jackie Robinson

by Joseph Kirby on Jun 30, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m thinking Ray Searage has helped Veras with his mental approach; he looked like he got a bit too “amped up” in previous years, but has a calmness about him now that’s helping


"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente

by michaelbro8 on Jul 1, 2011 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

i did a little lurking over there during the series

you guys have the 2nd most entertaining game threads on all SBN.

by theatrain on Jun 30, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha nice.

I’m glad you found them enjoying to watch, they can be very fun with all the GIF’s and Images we post over there!

"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives." - Jackie Robinson

by Joseph Kirby on Jun 30, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

And for some expert counter-analysis

What do you guys want for Morrow? We’ve got about 8 AAA Catchers we could ship you.

by Mr. E on Jul 1, 2011 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

haha..I have noticed you guys have been stock piling up on catchers via MLBTradeRumors.

"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives." - Jackie Robinson

by Joseph Kirby on Jul 1, 2011 4:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

We keep signing 'em up

And they keep on going down.

At one point we literally had the 4th and 5th guys from our preseason depth chart as our 2 MLB catchers, and we had to move our second best prospect up to AAA just so there’d be a warm body there.

McKenry has solidified things greatly – almost no bat, but he catches like an actual MLBer. Probably a legit #3 C for most orgs (unless they’ve got a prospect who’s close enough to count).

by JRoth95 on Jul 1, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

has anyone seen this man, word is he was catching the rejuvinated buccos

" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009

by oldtimehockey09 on Jun 30, 2011 11:09 PM EDT reply actions  

False.

That’s at least 3 or 4 mullets.

Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe

by CTapps on Jun 30, 2011 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's like

P Diddy and Charlie Sheen hanging off the back of your head

by Mr. E on Jul 1, 2011 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m going to reprogram Oregon Trail so everyone dies of BUCCOS FEVER instead of dysentery.

by CptnAwesome on Jun 30, 2011 11:11 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

New Slogan

We should all get t-shirts made. “Bucco fever: Better than dysentery!”

by Aphthakid on Jul 1, 2011 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Shame it's not the NFL

The Texans’ logo could be nicely repurposed to be the cow skull graphic.

by JRoth95 on Jul 1, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bucs Dugout members need Captain Planet style rings. Right now we’d use our powers to summon Vlad.

Short answer: I got the impression that a minority of people here thought of Uviedo as a non-prospect and that we could roll the dice with Eveland, but most seemed to think we gave up something interesting for a guy who wasn’t very likely to do much of anything.

I haven’t checked on Uviedo in a long time, but he was doing pretty well earlier in the season it seemed. How’s he looking now?

by CptnAwesome on Jun 30, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

He has just recently been promoted to Triple-A Las Vegas in the PCL.

His first outing with Las Vegas didn’t go to well, but I’m sure he can bounce back, hes still posting dominate strikeout number, and has lowered his HR’s (which I heard was one of his flaws as a pitcher). Hes posted a 4.29 ERA, Batters hitting .261 against him, and has struckout 40 in almost 36 innings.

"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives." - Jackie Robinson

by Joseph Kirby on Jun 30, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, many didn't think much of Uviedo, one way or the other.

However, the Pirates must have thought something of him. He was kind of a surprise 40-man roster protection back in Winter 2008.

by impliedi on Jun 30, 2011 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh I see.

I could probably see him making the big club next year or being a September call-up if he does well in Las Vegas.

"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives." - Jackie Robinson

by Joseph Kirby on Jun 30, 2011 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Vlad did like him a lot. Mainly because even if he’s a reliever, guys with that kind of heat don’t grow on trees. He is a fairly interesting guy, certainly could make it in the majors. Vlad and a few others were furious about trading him for Eveland, because Eveland was completely useless. It was just a waste to give up anything vaguely interesting for a useless guy.

by thecheeseisblue on Jun 30, 2011 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey!

Eveland is a PCL All Star! Show some respect!

by ElDuce on Jul 1, 2011 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

lol...some would say that could be quite a feat..for the PCL..

But we have all seen what Eveland can do in the Majors…

"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives." - Jackie Robinson

by Joseph Kirby on Jul 1, 2011 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hats off to Karstens !!

The man has a 2.65 ERA at the end of June, When did we say that last about a Buc’s starting pitcher? Good for him. Who did we trade to get him anyway – Nady ? Go Bucs. I don’t care if you finish above 0.500, within 10 games of 0.500, 4th, second, or 1st (well, maybe that I care about). Just play hard, do the best you can, and keep improving. And by the way, as Butch said, who are these guys anyway?

by fssharp on Jun 30, 2011 11:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Nady and Damasco Marte.
that trade was a big tick.

by BlindSquirrel on Jul 1, 2011 3:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

we also got Tabata and Ohlendorf. That trade is such a steal for us it’s laughable.

Yinzers uber alles

by BostonBuc on Jul 1, 2011 7:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

June

16-11 overall. 6-1-1 in series, including series wins against the D-Backs, Red Sox, and Phillies. Never saw that coming.

by ElDuce on Jul 1, 2011 12:12 AM EDT reply actions  

Throw in a wins in the third games of the series (Sox, Phils) and we’d be in first place right now.

by CO_Bucs on Jul 1, 2011 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was at the game tonight...

and got what i believe is the bat chase d’arnaud broke in the 8th. it has andy marte’s name on it though. is that normal for a young guy to use a random bat?

by Buccos1992 on Jul 1, 2011 12:25 AM EDT reply actions  

That seems quite odd to me..

"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives." - Jackie Robinson

by Joseph Kirby on Jul 1, 2011 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

You got ball shaggin skills !


"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente

by michaelbro8 on Jul 1, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

That is pretty sick.

"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives." - Jackie Robinson

by Joseph Kirby on Jul 1, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Whose autograph is that?

by Mr. E on Jul 1, 2011 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Charlie Morton

He was probably the nicest professional athlete iv’e ever met.

by Buccos1992 on Jul 1, 2011 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

I dismissed him as JVB II

But I’ve also been hoping he succeeds, because my then-5 year old daughter got his autographed hat on the last day of the 2009 season

Is he arb-eligible this winter? That could be one weird hearing.

by JRoth95 on Jul 1, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nuts

I can’t imagine a huge raise this year, given 2010 and given his midseason regression, but he could get quite pricey in 2013. Also, I’d just like to keep him a bit longer as a cheap, effective arm. Instead, we had a year of him as a cheap, ineffective arm.

Oh well.

by JRoth95 on Jul 1, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just a note...

Tomorrow night, no matter the result of their game against Washington, the Pirates will be at least one game above .500 and no more than three games back in the NL Central.

This is the year!

by rennais94 on Jul 1, 2011 12:42 AM EDT reply actions  

and the Cards are really strugglin without Albert; and the Reds are underperforming for that line up and pitching. The Bucs have a stretch of games against the NL Central coming up that actually could mean something. Fun


"Pitch me outside, I will hit .400. Pitch me inside, and you will not find the ball." - Roberto Clemente

by michaelbro8 on Jul 1, 2011 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

And

Ryan Zimmerman is in a huge slump, we somehow dodge their ace Jordan Zimmerman in a 4 game set, and Robert Zimmerman was on tour in Norway last night so I doubt he will hurt us either.

by Mr. E on Jul 1, 2011 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

The latest two input variable models show a high degree of lucky.

by CO_Bucs on Jul 1, 2011 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bah!

You’re just a delusional yinzer, dtoddwin tells us so.

by BarryJT on Jul 1, 2011 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’d call Bautista running into Patterson luck on our part, eh?

Thank you Ned Colletti.

by ryebr3ad on Jul 1, 2011 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

buccos start July 13-0

after that i really can’t predict

by ludwigs9th on Jul 1, 2011 2:09 AM EDT reply actions  

I can fuck with this lineup...

1. Presley-RF
2. Tabata-LF
3. McCutchen-CF
4. Walker-2B
5. Alvarez-3B
6. Jones-1B
7. Doumit-C
8. Cedeno-SS

Assuming we can get ole Pedro back to how he used to be hitting, he would actually probably be in the cleanup spot. If that was our top 7, and they produced offensively, then I would love to keep Cedeno on board and would feel no need for an upgrade. Average bat, exceptional glove, I’ll take that.

by Zach Buccos on Jul 1, 2011 10:27 AM EDT reply actions  

Bench

Chase-3B/SS
Harrison-Utility
McKenry/Jaramillo-C
Paul-OF

by Zach Buccos on Jul 1, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Add Pearce to 1B against lefties, and since you need a 5 man bench anyways

by Mr. E on Jul 1, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Think you'd hafta switch

Elvis and Jose, based on arm, IMO.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 1, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know if I’d say “average” and “exceptional”, I think I would say “terrible” bat and “acceptable” glove for SS. UZR/150 for his career at SS is -2.4. But the point stands, we can afford to have one no-hit spot in the lineup, the problem has been that we have had 2-5 no-hit spots depending on the week.

by poorboywilly on Jul 1, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, the bat is pretty bad

Even among SS, he’s in the bottom quintile. But he really has been solid with the glove, and I’d say “exceptional” since he was benched for Wood. And that’s over 60 games now, if I’m not mistaken. UZR is valuable over longer samples than that , and of course he could regress. But as we all know, Ronny’s got focus issues, not physical issues. If arch-motivator Hurdle has gotten through to Ronny, he could certainly maintain this play.

Among other things, remember that his defense was solid/plus all year in 2010 until late in the year – mid-August, September? IOW, the guy can be good in more than spurts. The test will be whether he can really maintain it for 162.

by JRoth95 on Jul 1, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

He certainly has been quite good (defensively) so far this year, and we will see what he does going forward. With the past mental lapses (such as the incessant bunting) I’m not going to necessarily count on it, but I’m OK keeping an open mind on it. We can always audition d’Arnaud at short once he’s not filling in at third.

by poorboywilly on Jul 1, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do we

have any other nicknames for Elvis yet ? The hound dog ? White lightning ? Doogie ?

by Uncle Chips on Jul 1, 2011 12:40 PM EDT reply actions  

If he is white lightning

that only leaves Paul or Harrison to be Black Hammer. Save us Calvin Anderson!

by Mr. E on Jul 1, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Someone said Impresley the other day. I dunno

Thank you Ned Colletti.

by ryebr3ad on Jul 1, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

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