MLB Draft 2011 Results: Pirates Go For Upside With Gerrit Cole, Josh Bell And High School Pitching
After two days of the MLB Draft, it looks like the Pirates have pursued a strong strategy that will take them as far as their scouting and player development systems can go. The Bucs are going to have to spend a lot more on their first two picks, Gerrit Cole and Josh Bell, than most teams do on their entire drafts, but that's what happens when you pick first overall in the draft and then spend your second-round pick on the best remaining player, who just happens to be someone who has already announced that he isn't planning on signing. Bell has serious power and was probably worthy of the pick even if the Bucs' chances of signing him turn out to be as remote as they appear. If he doesn't sign, the pick is protected.
The Pirates will almost surely sign Cole. If they sign Bell, too, it's already a good draft before even considering the other 48 picks. Third-round pick Alex Dickerson probably won't come cheaply, either. Dickerson is a very good hitter with power, and was ranked No. 37 in Jonathan Mayo's Top 50 draft prospects, but the Bucs drafted him as a first baseman, so his bat will have to carry him.
The Bucs used so many of their remaining Day Two picks on tall high school pitchers that some folks were joking in the comments each time the Pirates' turn came that the Bucs had drafted another 6-foot-4 pitcher, and his name didn't matter. Of course, that's nothing new - the Pirates took a ton of high school pitchers in the middle rounds of the 2009 draft (Colton Cain, all the Zacks) and the 2010 draft (Nick Kingham, Jason Hursh, Austin Kubitza, Dace Kime, Zachary Weiss).
The Pirates didn't sign a lot of the high school pitchers they took in 2010, but they did sign second-rounder Stetson Allie to a bonus that was well above slot. My guess is that we'll see something similar this year with Josh Bell - if he signs, a lot of the high school players the Bucs took on Day Two will fall by the wayside. If he doesn't, they'll probably sign a ton of them.
It's too early to tell who among them will be tough signs, but my guess, based on their commitments and everything I've read about them so far, is that fourth-rounder Colten Brewer and fifth-rounder Tyler Glasnow won't be particularly tough. Ninth-rounder Clay Holmes (who's committed to Auburn), 15th-rounder Kody Watts (University of Portland) and 17th-rounder Aaron Brown (an outfielder who's committed to Pepperdine) might be among the tougher ones. (All three were listed among Baseball America's Top 200 draft prospects.)
The Pirates also took a bunch of outfielders. In addition to Brown, they also took Taylor Lewis out of the University of Maine (10th round) and Jo-El Bennett (11th), Candon Myles (12th), and Jordan Dunatov (14th) out of high school. But really, the middle round of this draft were all about pitchers. The Pirates don't seem to care much about filling spots on minor-league rosters, which makes sense - the lower minors are already jammed with interesting players, particularly pitchers. The Pirates don't have much need for depth right now. What they need is upside, and so they've mostly focused on lottery tickets - tall pitchers who might someday learn something.
The poster boy for that trend is probably someone like Glasnow. Most of the pitchers the Pirates drafted today are 6-foot-4 or taller, but Glasnow is really tall, at 6-foot-7. He's also 17 years old, is so skinny he makes Trent Stevenson look like he's standing in front of a funhouse mirror, doesn't shave yet, and has feet so big he can't buy shoes in stores. Oh, and he throws 93 MPH on a downward plane. Will he ever become anything? Probably not, but if he does, he might be really scary.
The Pirates didn't draft a middle infielder until the 20th round; you might say that they could have considered drafting them earlier given the lack of great shortstop prospects in their minor-league system, but hey - this draft had arms, so that's what the Pirates took. (Besides, I was talking to WTM about this over this weekend, and he cited an article that suggested that the best place to get shortstops - that is, guys who might one day play shortstop in the majors - was Latin America, not the draft. The idea is that many draft-eligible shortstops are over-coached to the point where they don't have the creativity to play such a difficult defensive position. Obviously, Troy Tulowitzki is one of the best defensive shortstops in the majors, and guys like Jimmy Rollins and Paul Janish aren't so bad either. But that's the basic idea.)
Overall, I like this draft a lot so far. I wanted Rendon with the first overall pick if Rendon was healthy, but the fact that so many teams passed on him indicates that he probably wasn't. Cole's mechanical issues make him less than ideal as a No. 1 overall pick, but given the choices the Pirates had available to them, he made a lot of sense. The selection of Bell in the second round is fantastic, and they got great value with Dickerson in the third. What happens after that really depends on who ends up signing, but I appreciate that the Pirates haven't wasted a lot of picks on guys whose upside is Class AA - there are probably a few, but they're mostly after the 20th round. The strategy of picking a ton of high-ceiling, low-floor pitchers is one that leads to a ton of busts and frustration, but I do think it can reap great rewards if the Pirates keep doing it. Hopefully they'll sign Cole and Bell somehow, plus a smattering of the late-round guys.
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Just sign the first
three Neal.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jun 7, 2011 8:36 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I agree. Something tells me that Huntington wouldn’t have picked Bell with the first pick of the second day if he didn’t do his due diligence on whether or not he would have a chance to sign him. He had all night to and morning to figure it out.
However, if we picked Bell in the 3rd or 4th on a whim, then I would be much less hopeful.
I think more likely...
He approached Nutting about getting approval to go as high as he thought would be necessary (5-6 mil?). You make the offer, put some pressure on him with life changing money, then take a ton of backup options to use some of the money on if the kid sticks to his guns.
My guess is if the kid isnt adamant about going to college, but moreso using the letter as leverage, that he wouldnt go back on that after the 1st day of the draft.
Bell
It seems like Huntington is throwing all his eggs in the Josh Bell basket. I don’t think the draft looks very good if Bell can’t be signed, and I’m not very confident he can be. I am very surprised/disappointed that they didn’t take a guy like Matt Dean in the seventh or eighth as insurance in case Bell’s not signable. That would have made a world of difference, in my opinion.
Or
he knows what everyone else knows, but has the money to put that knowledge to use
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Twitter: @shanecglass
They need to sign Bell or it's another wasted 2nd round pick
I agree with you that if they don’t aren’t able to sign him then that puts a damper on the draft. If they don’t then that will be the second 2nd round pick that NH will have blown since he has been here. I don’t want to hear about it being a good gamble if they can’t get it done. This team can’t continue to fail to sign their high picks just because they will get that pick back the next year. The bottom line is they need to get him sign or it will be a foolish selection.
Proud fan of Pittsburgh's professional sports teams and the Pirates too.
by Black&GoldTrain on Jun 7, 2011 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Man, you are lucky you aren’t a Padres fan. If you get this worked up over a potential semi wasted second round pick (since they still get someone), I wouldn’t want to see you with their history of blowing every first rounder.
by thecheeseisblue on Jun 7, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Did someone mention
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Twitter: @shanecglass
yeah, no kidding... lol
even if Bell doesnt sign, we should have drafted him anyway. you have to take chances once in a while.
DK leaving PG
…going to the Trib. He just tweeted it 1/2 an hour ago. Wow…Huge surprise! Basically no reason to bother with the Post-Gazette now when it comes to the bucs.
Absolutely none.
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Twitter: @shanecglass
Bobby seems to be coming around slowly
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." Wes Westrum
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Jun 7, 2011 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
By the time he gets 90 degrees around
The world will be over (October right? Or is it next December?)
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Twitter: @shanecglass
money
if bell was so sure he was going to college why did he hire the best agent in the bigs, put 3.5 milliom on the table and see what happens. Maybe the pirates will spend 15 miliion this year ,since it’s the last year for over slot signing. they have all the leverage.
57-105 come on "sale the team"
MLB Prospects
can’t “hire” agents, they can only consult with advisors. If you are a big time talent, no reason not to use Boras as your “advisor” since it doesnt cost you anything, and he can guide you through the process. As for why Boras would waste his time, he is not in the door for when it is time for Bell to come out of college if he doesnt sign.
boras is going to listen to the offer for Bell
because this may be the last year before slotting, everyone knows this may be a much bigger payday for his client than 3 years from now.
My
thoughts on the draft. I will probably write a larger piece (if y’all think that’s a good idea – I feel like I did plenty of research on the draft and could maybe provide some useful information).
First, Gerrit Cole. People are going to compare him to other recent #1 picks, namely Strasburg and Harper. Fact is, those two guys literally generational talents. Despite the Rendon/Harper argument, this year if those two guys were in the draft they would have went 1 and 2 (order not important). Still, Cole is no slouch. Going back a few years earlier, Cole would have went before Beckham and I argue he’d go before Price. Cole and Price have similar fastballs to go along with upside issues. Price had better stats and a good slider. Cole has a decent slider and a crazy-good changeup (I truly believe that). I’ll take Cole. Point is, Cole is really good and he’s certainly no Bullington, Lincoln, or Moskos.
Look at this video courtesy of mlb.com. Watch the third pitch (first one to a left-handed batter). That’s a 86 mph changeup with ridiculous fade/movement. If Cole can control and disguise that thing (to look like his fastball), something the Pirates believe they can fix with some mechanic and arm slot tweaking, Cole could be absolutely devastating. He becomes even scarier if the same fixes help him command his electric fastball better.
Second, Josh Bell. I truly think the Pirates are going to sign him, or at least make a really, really good run at it. Neal Huntington is a really smart guy. He noticed a guy like Daniel Norris was still on the board. He may not have rated Norris as high as some publications, but even if that’s true, Neal Huntington made a calculation. He took the difference between the talent of Bell and Norris and the difference between their chances to sign and weighed them, in this case in Bell’s favor. If he did that, Bell has to have a solid chance to sign (close to Norris, who’s rumored to be 50/50), or the Pirates love Bell significantly more than Norris, and I believe it’s the former.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jun 7, 2011 10:57 PM EDT reply actions
By all means
Write a larger piece on the draft. I for one would be happy to see it.
It's a good day to be a Pirate
You wouldn't be the only one who would like to read it.
I for one think it would be a good idea to get as much info on these players as we can get. Especially from good baseball posters like McCutchen.
Proud fan of Pittsburgh's professional sports teams and the Pirates too.
by Black&GoldTrain on Jun 7, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
This
You seemed to know what you were talking about this afternoon. I’d like to read it.
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Twitter: @shanecglass
Well, I would sure hope that they would make a good run at signing their second round pick. It doesn’t make much sense if they don’t. Besides what does it matter if they make a really, really good run at it if he doesn’t sign with them? I don’t want to hear that they tried their best to have him sign only to fail. I want to see actual results and not more rhetoric from this team. Not sure where you get that Neal Huntington is a really smart guy either because I sure haven’t seen it.
Proud fan of Pittsburgh's professional sports teams and the Pirates too.
by Black&GoldTrain on Jun 7, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Because of all the times that they have failed to sign a high profile draft pick in the past? Please, tell me when you see rhetoric and not results when it comes to the draft.
by thecheeseisblue on Jun 7, 2011 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Because it's not entirely up to them if he signs
They could offer him more money than Rendon gets, and at the end of the day, if he really wants to go to college and no amount of money will change that, there’s nothing they can do
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Twitter: @shanecglass
nothing they can do
There are two pretty simple things they can do. For one, they could use the pick on someone else if Bell isn’t signable. Secondly, they could take other top-shelf talents who fell (Fisher, Dean, etc.) as insurance in case Bell isn’t signable. They didn’t do either of those things, which leaves them in a position where they absolutely have to sign Bell. If they don’t, it’s a pretty mediocre draft.
Right
I meant there’s nothing they can do to change his mind
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Twitter: @shanecglass
My biggest concern with Cole as a pitcher
Besides the ones I laid out pre-draft of course, is the lack of difference in velocity of some of his pitches. NH touched on this tonight during his interview during the game. When Cole’s CU is 86ish, he’s unreal. When he starts getting it up to 88-90, that’s when he gets in trouble, because generally all his pitches are similar velocity. If they can correct this, and get him to disguise it as well, damn that’s a scary pitch…
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Twitter: @shanecglass
Cole will sign.
Bell will sign.
Dickerson will sign.
The Nuttings will pay out huge money at the recommendation of the FO to get it done.
And hopefully they will be standouts in Pgh. for many years.
パトリック
“patthatt = Nutting Minion”
— Bob Smizik
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
I've been outed by WTM.
I’ll never be able to show my user name here again.
パトリック
Feeling good
Like others have said, if they sign the first three guys, this will be a great draft. Since hard slotting is probably coming, this is the last time that we’ll be able throw around the extra money to coax guys to sign. Going forward, guys are going to have a lot more incentive to go to college or stay in college instead of taking 3rd round slot money. So, you may as well go for broke!
Also, they got a Kryptonian in the 11th round!
great draft
I think it’s going to take a lot more than just the top 3 to make this a great draft. If they don’t sign Bell, it’s an okay draft. If they sign Bell but not many of the upside guys they took later, I think it’s good but not great. Assuming he’s signable, Bell was a steal at #61, but he’s not the type of elite talent that makes a great draft without a lot of upside depth to back it up. To me, they need Bell plus a significant number of upside guys from the later rounds. That’s going to cost a lot of money if it’s even possible. I will give Nutting/NH/Smith mad props if they get Cole, Bell, and guys like Holmes, Watts, and Brown.
excellent
I thought last year’s draft was great. This year’s draft is similar, but indications are that Bell is going to want way more than Allie did last year, which means they’ll either a) fail to sign Bell; b) fail to sign a lot of overslot guys from later rounds; or c) spend a ridiculous amount of money. If a) or b) happen it will still be a decent draft, but very disappointing; if c) happens it could be NH/Smith’s best draft yet.
I agree
although I think if they sign the top 3 and get one or two more high upside guys this is their best year on pure talent.
Cole > Taillon
Bell > Allie (imo – its very close)
Dickerson > Mel Rojas jr. (large margin)
after that, last year the Pirates only signed Kingham, Lakind, Hafner, Maggi, and Grovatt that come to mind for me. Matching that type of second tier shouldn’t be that hard.
The difference is, on pure talent, this was bound to happen because (a) the Pirates drafted a spot earlier (mainly for Cole and Taillon) and (b) the draft was so much deeper, many other teams drafted well, and that’s the best metric to use. Talent is great, but the goal is to get more talent than the other guys. Last year the Pirates were probably first or second (the Nats had a very good haul). This year, the Nats could get a very good haul again, along with the Blue Jays, Red Sox, and of course, the Rays. The Pirates should still be top 5 if they sign Bell, but I’m not sure if this draft will be quite as good when comparing it league-wide.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jun 8, 2011 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Taillon is almost = Cole
Maybe slight edge to Cole for where he is on the development scale. I also don’t give “huge” edge to Dickerson because he doesn’t possess the overall upside of Rojas though I like Dickerson’s potential to reach his offensive ceiling better than Rojas putting it all together. Edge to Dickerson but not a huge one. Agreed on Edge to Bell but it’s close.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
I have to disagree on Bell
Maybe I just have to big of a man crush on him, but I think Bell is going to be a beast. I mean like a .300 30 homer guy, and not a fringe starter/closer. Until Allie actually becomes a pitcher and not a thrower, I will take Bell all day. Thank you much.
No slight to you slick
I read your post farther down and you said you like Cole-Bell more than Taillon-Allie. Which is what I think also. My point is that I don’t think Cole and Bell aren’t close to me. I don’t see as many question marks around Bell as a player as there are for Allie. Now if you are arguing that Taillon and Cole are close, I can definitely see that.
I can’t agree with you enough on that. We really don’t know what we will have with him yet. Bell is much more developed than Allie at the time of the draft.
by StripesForLife on Jun 8, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
We are not disagreeing on Bell...
we are disagreeing on Allie. No offense taken. Despite all the reports of his command issues and the fact that he is still in extended spring training, the reports of him not being able to find the plate have been greatly exaggerated as reported by Stark. He is not going to be a fast mover but you can teach mid 90 – 100 mph. And I’ve seen a ton of video on the slider and I like it a lot. He needs a lot of work though but with his stuff the Pirates are right to be patient.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
I think if they sign the top 3 and get one or two more high upside guys this is their best year on pure talent.
I agree with this, basically. If they sign Bell plus a reasonable number of their top 15-20 guys, including two of Watts, Holmes, and Brown, I think this is a great draft. My concerns are that Bell isn’t signable and that if he is there’s just not going to be money for guys like Watts, Holmes, Brown, etc. We’ll have to wait and see. If NH gets it done, I’ll be impressed. If he doesn’t, there’s a lot of room for second-guessing here.
Not being snarky...
but isn’t Kingham really the only overslot guy we got? I thought the college pitchers were meh (which is what I think this year). Wasn’t a big fan of Maggi but fills org need so hopefully he surprises (which is what I feel this year) and I thought Curry was a nice get where they got him but frankly I didn’t expect what he’s done so far. I liked Rojas from a tools standpoint but I like Dickerson’s bat better because I think he has a better chance to contribute and realize his offensive ceiling. I also like the combination of Cole and Bell better than Taillon and Allie. So as far I’m concern, they only need to get one of their high ceiling over slot guys to sign for this draft to be as good as last year which, I agree I too thought was excellent. Did I miss someone important from last year? Lakind I guess.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
This draft really hinges on the first 3 picks (most teams drafts do).
Cole will be signed. Maybe $7-8 mil
I’m not sure what to make of Bell. I’m hoping he signs, but not terribly optimistic. $3.5-$4 is a lot to think about for a high school kid.
Dickinson may also be tough, though I think he will sign.
If all three sign, I’d give Huntington an A. If they can’t get Bell I would still grade them a solid B+ and hopefully they can use the pick and money either later in this draft or in the top half of next year.
Listening to a group panel at 3AM on ESPN
They all acknowledged Bell is a great talent but ALL of them said NO WAY he signs. One guy supposedly spoke to Boston’s GM who supposedly threw out a 5 mil figure out and was told no, I’m going to U T.
He said Boston was in love with him and if was the a slight chance he’d go pro, they would have drafted him.
Does 6 mill do it? Sure sounds like Boston would have done what it would take for most part to sign him, after listening to the show and re-reading his letter, he’s not signing.
And I really hope all the experts and insiders are wrong and he does sign but the odds seem very low.
If he doesn’t sign, this wont be much of a draft in my opinion.
by jackiegleason on Jun 8, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
This article
http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/06/08/1256461/rodon-creasy-drafted.html
Creasy says he’s looking for above-slot.
If
he was 50/50 thinking he’d be drafted in the 15th round, drafting him in the 8th round seems to give us a chance better than that I’d think.
August 15th needs to get here!
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jun 8, 2011 7:44 AM EDT up reply actions
"... Besides, I was talking to WTM about this over this weekend, ..."
Oh, what does WTM know about baseball?
Pffft.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
The Bell pick
Isn’t wasted at all. If he doesn’t sign, the Bucs get the pick back next year.
They are getting a chance to draft Bell, for free.
If you think Bell is going to be great, the Bucs will still have very little chance to sign him in future drafts because of the randomness of the process.
If he doesn’t sign, he’s a HS kid, he’s not going to be contributing for a while. A guy drafted next year in the 2nd round can be just as likely to have the same window as Bell.
There is nothing wrong with saving a present pick for later use, as long as you are making intelligent selections with that later pick. And if you think the Pirates can’t make intelligent selections with picks, then it doesn’t really matter what they do in the draft.
disagree
It’s not just about signing or not signing Bell; it’s about the whole picture. If Bell’s not signable, they could have gotten Norris at that pick and backed it up with Fisher or Dean or someone like that. That’s much, much better than just getting a comp pick at #62 next year. If they loved Bell, they still could have backed him up with guys like Dean, Fisher, Phil Evans, etc. as backup plans so that they’d still have a couple high-end talents (plus pick #62 next year) if they failed to ink Bell. They didn’t do either of those things, which means they really need to sign Bell or the whole draft becomes very disappointing.

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