Pirates 8, Diamondbacks 5: Bucs Come Back To Win On Lyle Overbay's Bases-Clearing Double
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jun 7, 2011 10:07 PM EDT
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Kevin Correia really didn't have his best stuff tonight at all - he was missing high a lot, and when he did throw the ball into the zone, it tended to get hit hard. But if this is going to be a bad start from him - five innings, four runs - things really could be worse. The Bucs' bullpen allowed one run over four innings to pick up the slack, and the Pirates came back with a five-run eighth, capped by a three-run double by Lyle Overbay.
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Big win over a quality opponent. I really wonder how this season will affect the chances of some tougher-to-sign prospects signing with us. If the Pirates are near .500 near the signing deadline, does that cause some to pull the trigger on a contract?
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-Roberto
by blackjackfishtaco on Jun 7, 2011 10:12 PM EDT reply actions
It might have some effect
but money talks.
that was a hell of an at-bat by overbay
the d-backs pitcher was all over the place. it was refreshing to see overbay stand in there and didn’t flail away at the first couple pitches.
I was really tired after doing draft stuff the whole day and my mind was wandering in and out of the game, but Ronny Cedeno had an amazing at-bat in there too.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jun 7, 2011 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
his was in the...5th inning?
10-pitch AB where he fouled off a number of pitches, then got a hustling double to right center to lead off. he was left stranded, a fact that i wholeheartedly lamented in the game thread.
I have been a Cedeno non-believer
I’ve always thought Cedeno was EXTREMELY athletic with a nice quick bat….. but his defensive lapses drove me CRAZY! Also, his non-specific mental lapses would also grate my nerves.
We’ve needed somebody to step up and produce ever since Jack Wilson left.
THAT being said…..he’s actually doing a nice job recently. I hope it continues and he proves me wrong (I usually am).
Technically it’s that long. He did throw a ball away turning a double play, but it doesn’t count as an error.
by thecheeseisblue on Jun 8, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I've seen this trick before...
with Cedeno so I’m not saying anything positive about him until September. All I’ll say is hopefully he continue his current game, on both sides of the plate, for the rest of the season.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
How did the farm fare today? I saw a bit of offense from them to start.
Thank you Ned Colletti.
by ryebr3ad on Jun 7, 2011 10:26 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Last I saw Indy was up big
But some of that was a Justin Wilson hit as well
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Twitter: @shanecglass
all the teams won handily, except bradenton who didnt play
fryer and mercer hit dingers, curry had 2 more hits with a double, holt and marte with multiple hits, locke pitched very well and so did waldron. d’arnaud with 2 hits.
good night to be a Buc
alderson, however, had his first bad night of the season… but you cant be perfect, right?
Also
Marte with 2 SB and Holt had as well. Needless to say, things went well today
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Twitter: @shanecglass
Like my boy Ice Cube said:
“Today was a good day.”
by rydog2469 on Jun 7, 2011 10:36 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Garret Jones in the post-game:
“Yeah I’m looking forward to seeing Duke on the hill.”
… I doubt it.
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Twitter: @shanecglass
Garrett Jones in the post-game:
“Yeah, I’m looking forward to seeing Duke on the hill from the dugout.”
FTFY
We don’t need his bat in the line-up against a southpaw.
パトリック
Can't count the number of times
I’ve seen Wood in the dugout and thought, “WTF is Duke doing in there?”
"Throw strikes, but don't give him anything good to hit."
by RichieHebner on Jun 8, 2011 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Every day Brandon Wood wakes up and says:
“Thank you God for giving me just enough ability to be a backup middle IF because I sure as hell have no other business being on a big-league roster.”
I keep hearing that Latin America can produce more quality middle IFs for the majors. Well, where the hell are they? I don’t have any numbers to back this up, but it sure seems like we are in a down cycle for middle IF players and quality depth.
パトリック
I think he could hit Duke
Really.
"Throw strikes, but don't give him anything good to hit."
by RichieHebner on Jun 8, 2011 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm looking forward to seeing if a ROOT Sports cameraman can locate Duke's wife in the stands.
As a matter of fact, I’d sign off on Lacee Collins doing an interview with her.
パトリック
Wood had
four of the worst ABs in a game for one player; weak foul to 1B on a 2-1 pitch and beating an 0-0 pitch into the dirt in front of home plate with 1 out and a runner on 3B were the two highlights for me… I am really pulling for him, but I think Harrison and Paul need to stay in the lineup for now.
with Alvarez now playing the field in extended spring...
the wood experiment will soon be coming to an end… well, he’ll probably stay as the backup and ciriaco gets sent down, but you know what i mean
How interesting that Hurdle’s bunts backfired each time he tried to use it — Ciriaco sucked at it, Harrison said “Screw this”, and Paul tempted fate.
Hurdle played for one run in the eighth, failed, and we scored five runs because of it. Perhaps he’ll finally learn.
I’ll shut up now. Great day for the Bucs in every way possible.
Thank you Ned Colletti.
I was just about post this
Hurdle did everything he could to prevent a big inning there
He'll never learn...
If anything, he’s bunting more, in sort of “screw you all” fashion.
By the end of the season, I expect to see a game in which all twenty seven outs are sacrifice bunts.
Hurdle, when asked why he continued to try to sacrifice runners home from third even though there were two outs, was quoted to say, " I was playing for one run there."
I'm really getting tired of seeing razors.
Can’t they get a sponsor that would provide pics of girls in bikinis, for example?
パトリック
I remember Valentines Day last year when it was KY ad
is that close enough
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." Wes Westrum
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Jun 8, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I remember a DirecTV spot
That messed with me
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Twitter: @shanecglass
at the game
small crowd, as could be expected for a tuesday,. i cant believe they won, i was basically ready to leave, this team keeps surprising me. maybe not our same old pirates
different mindset
they are never out of games it seems. i was at this one and the win on friday. both come from behind wins, last year when we went down, we just gave up.
This win...
was better than the 7-0 eventual loss to the Mets was bad
The Hammer Speaks
Extra Innings
Twitter: @DTonPirates and @hammerspeaks
The winds of change are blowing through PNC
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." Wes Westrum
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Jun 8, 2011 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
More runs than hits great stat.
I love the fact we had more runs than we had hits. That is efficiency!
Hermits have no peer pressure.........Stephen Wright
Pirates Run Differential
June 7th, 2010: -133
June 7th, 2011: +1
Almost literally unbelievable – http://espn.go.com/mlb/standings/_/date/20100607
elvishasleft.com
bestweekever.tv
by Dan H on Jun 8, 2011 1:41 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
We’re more than halfway to last year’s 57-win total. And 29-30 feels a lot better than 29-51 (and it took a three-game winning streak to get to 29-51 last year…).
Let’s get to July 1st before getting TOO happy. Interleague play hasn’t been our forte recently. After those 12 games, we’ll have a better idea where we stand.
Excuse me for not losing touch with the reality of the Pirates being 73-123 in interleague play since it started in 1997 with a run differential of -195. The Pirates have been above .500 in interleague play twice in those 14 seasons, with 8-7 records in 2001 and 2009. And some of those seasons have been truly butt ugly like 2-10 (2004), 3-12 (2006) and 2-13 (2010), leading into some significant tailspins.
Remember 2005 when the Pirates were last 30-30, after the 18-2 pasting put on Tampa?? The Pirates lost 6 of the next 7 in interleague play…and ended up 28 games below .500.
So pardon me for waiting until interleague play is done to assess whether this team is for real. Our team is improved over last year, definitely, but if we are thrilled with an improvement over one of the 5 worst Pirates teams in the last 100 years, we’ve set the bar pretty darn low.
With Boras as an advisor, our first 2 draft picks won’t be signed until August 15th no matter who the GM is, if then. Unless, of course, you expect NH to give in to Scott’s first counter bid. Have you seen me trash the Pirates draft AT ALL in the last 2 days?? If so, please point me to it. The only things I have brought up about this years draft that might be construed as negative were several days BEFORE the draft when I said that I had a gut feeling that the Pirates might eventually regret drafting Cole. And the verifiable fact that the Pirates have concentrated on drafting pitching at the expense of position players. I’ve said nothing since then. I’ve stated several times before that I don’t follow the amateurs close enough to form opinions on each individual. I haven’t trashed the Pirates FO for the money they’ve put out for the draft. That would be stupid with the money they’ve spent. It’s the not putting money out on the major league team that I’ve been frustrated with.
the 2011 Pirates are NOT the 2005 Pirates
i totally understand your scepticism about this team. i really do.
but youre starting to reach for negative things to say about the FO.
you always said that NH isnt good at evaluating talent for the major league club,
yet this team is much improved this season with basically the same starting
lineup and pitching as last season.
you keep comparing this team to teams of the past, see the example of the 2005 pirates, without mentioning the good things; like defense, and pitching improving considerably.
you talk about the FO going after pitching each draft without thinking that NH will probably deal from the glut of this to aquire bats in the future.
and now your assuming the pirates will tank in interleague play just because the pirates always have… thats not a reason, thats just you scared to believe in your team. scared that you will have the rug pulled out from under you.
none of us on here believe that we have a great team; not yet anyway.
but we are better. much better.
and its not just because of the players, but the FO deserves a ton of credit too.
by white angus on Jun 8, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
One misconception about the signing period
is that it’s all Scott Boras and the greedy advisors fault that it takes until August to get the big players signed. It’s partly because they are getting so much more than slot, but mostly because MLB refuses to sign off on the deals until close to the deadline. It is their dumb little protest to overslot deals that go against their wishes.
that's not entirely accurate
There are times when that happens, but Pedro Alvarez’s deal wasn’t held up by MLB. Boras and the Pirates waited until the last minute to see if the other side would blink.
Big year by Andrew McCutchen so far. 4th in the NL in WAR, only (barely) behind Votto, Reyes, and Kemp. Also Cedeno has come on. Those are two keys to the season so far.
by Adam Reynolds on Jun 8, 2011 7:52 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
plus the pitching and defense have done a complete 180 since last season, with basically the same starting cast
keep it up, buccos
The pitching has been awesome....but that's been talked about a lot...
….The defense was ranked dead last in whatever flavor of defensive stat or metric you want to use. And now they’re a Top Ten defensive team, by whatever measure you look at. That’s incredible.
Pedro was clearly improved before he went down…and Overbay is much better than Jones defensively. Walker has his lapses, but seems to be improving at 2B, and maybe that outfield shift they used last year really did hurt
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
heres another stat that looks really nice... the standings
6 games in front of the cubs, 7 games in front of the Stros
Indeed
Closer to the top than the bottom right now….by half a game, but still.
Santa Roberto Clemente
Ora Pro Nobis
@ChristianTappe
Personally I’d be happy if we can just stick close to the Reds, cause they were basically the consensus division pick after Wainwright went down for the Cards. If we’re able to stay close to Cincy in the standings then that’s a pretty successful performance for the time being at least.
i'll be satisfied finishing NOT LAST
i see lots of improvement over the last few years. not only in the NH regime, but going back until 2001.
when the bats start going, and with the minors looking oh so much better, this team could be good for a long time.
LOL Cubs
losers of 8 in a row.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 8, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 8, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
according to baseball reference, he is 3rd overall in the NL between all pitchers and hitters!
http://www.baseball-reference.com/
just scroll down some to see
We have to unify and watch our flag ascend!
I'm really impressed with his play in CF this season...
and that has been the key for him breaking into elite status imo. He still airmails the occassional throw but his route running has improved and he has been in charge and all over the field. I’ve seen him take over balls that were clearly in left field (which is ok because CF gets anything he can) that he deffered to Tabata last season. He’s attacking the ball in CF this year. I love it. And for those of you down on Tabata’s D this is the likely reason. He is playing no worse than last year to my eyes but McCutchen’s expanded range this year has limited some of his opportunities on balls in play. Overall, very happy with the defensive play in the OF. Walkers has been a little up and down at second but overall a little better than I expected. He is never going to be a great range guy there but I now have hope that if he can continue to develop his instincts with more experience he can be a sligtly below to average defender. The catching situation is a strength this season (before Doumit was hurt) and I truly believe with Doumit and Snyder splitting time it will remain that way. The SS posiition…well…see my post above about commenting on Cedeno. On the bad side, I’m disappointed with everything about Pedro’s and Overbay’s game so far and Jones cannot hit. I fully expect Pedro to turn it on offensively when he comes back and Overbay looks like he wants to start hitting. I think Paul’s play has been good but I expect him to turn into a pumpkin att some point. I’d also like to see what Pressley can do. I think he may have more upside than Paul. With Garrett not hitting no reason not to find out. Anyway, I didn’t really think there was any way this team could be close to .500 with Tabata struggling at the plate and Pedro not mashing. A testament to the pitching and to the coaching staff. I think Hurdle excells on the interpersonal side of things. In fact, I really like most of his in game decisions as well. I just hate the bunts. Anway, things could be fun around here for a while.
Oh, and Hanrahan is frickin filthy! Just filthy!
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
Overbay's OPS is creeping up now. almost 700, right behind carlos pena.
oh, and its much higher than Derrick Lee, btw.
fingers crossed
Truthfully I more disappointed with the defense because I didn’t expect a lot on offense. Huge at bat last night though!!!
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
i think his defense has been adequate, but definately down from what hes used to doing...
if he stays the whole season, i can see about a 260avg, 55xbh, better defense
You're right...Filthy alone doesn't do him justice.
I think Hanrahan could kick Chuck Norris’ ass.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
Jones is streaky
After a long cold spell he’s got a .745 OPS with plus defense. He’s fine. One hot streak and he’s back to good. When Pedro gets back we might have a pretty decent offense overall.
IF jones gets that chance.
despite that OPS, he looks lost AND frustrated at the plate. starting to remind me of the long slump he had mid last season… as soon as he hits the dribbler, he puts his head down in shame THEN he jogs to 1B
both were mentioned above but here it is:
By the end of June in 2010 the Bucs had a 27-51 record. They are already 29-30 so we have another 21 games to improve on this already improved total through June.
Run differential is +1 compared to -133. I’m not even sure how something like -133 happens. That is flat out bad.
Oh and btw July wasnt much better, by August 1st, the Pirates were just 36-67, we have a chance to pass 36 wins within the next few weeks. Crazy.
We have to unify and watch our flag ascend!
heh this is also nice
In 2010 according to BaseballReference we were -9.1 dWAR, which ranked last in the NL. In 2011 we are 1.8 dWAR which is currently second best.
We have to unify and watch our flag ascend!
the cool thing about this is that the main starters havent really changed; we basically have the same lineup
overbay is new, but every other position is manned by a player who was here last year. and just imagine if Overybay’s defense goes back to HIS norm- one of the best defensive teams in all of baseball, baby…
lots of peeps on here say that we couldnt field, and they were justified in believing this.
but players ARE allowed to improve, and most certainly have.
mccutchen had a negative UZR last season, which is one of the biggest reasons im not
a fan of that metric. i knew cutch was a good fielder and his range is insane. hes not great,
but deeming him a “not good” fielder was pushing it.
cedeno was a negative UZR. once again, see cutch.
Walker is definately better at 2B this season even though his range is weak. he doesnt have
that burst of speed to get into the hole, but i wouldnt call him a liability at all.
alvarez is the only real weak link at defense, and he is actually better than last year too.
doumit and snyder are both better with more down time to heal.
jones/diaz/paul… paul is proving that he is better defensively than the others, but hes not really a full time player
tabata… dont need to comment. hes good.
forgot to make my point
the FO had faith in its players to improve this season, and with the same starting cast, Overbay excluded, the team has improved at nearly every position on the field.
and by the way, you dont need UZR to see this. just watch a game with your own eyes.
I've been pointing out for 2 years...
that the UZR numbers for our outfielders were flawed due to the non-standard (no triples defense) positioning that JR’s staff used, and how the metric is calculated. Now that our defense is more “normal”, the numbers (especially for Cutch) are coming more into line.
Overbay is either the worst, or second worst, 1B defensively so far this year according to most of the metrics on fangraphs, only Freddy Freeman has a worse UZR, for example.
While Walker’s numbers are still below average defensively, they are much improved from last year, which is to be expected, considering his lack of experience. With his bat, just being an average defensive player makes him worthy of All Star consideration.
Prior to this season, Cedeno’s numbers in the 2 1/2 seasons that he’s played SS pretty much full time had him as a near average SS. Is the last 6 weeks or so an aberration, or has he changed something in his game?? I don’t have the answer.
Pedro’s range appears to have improved, from the small sample size we have.
One thing I did note is the lack of double plays, and it’s effect on our infielders UZR numbers. I don’t have an answer why we aren’t turning more.
The catchers are still below average in CS% at 24% (league average is 27%), but not nearly as bad as last year. Doumit has gone from 12% to 23%, Snyder is actually down from 30% to 26%. Last year, the Pirates had 11 passed balls and 56 wild pitches. This year, they’ve already had 8 passed balls and 24 wild pitches. So, it’s probably a push from last season.
only 2 teams have more DP's than the Pirates in the NL...
sorry, but i actually looked this up yesterday
Overbay is either the worst, or second worst, 1B defensively so far this year according to most of the metrics on fangraphs, only Freddy Freeman has a worse UZR, for example.
Obligatory: UZR is not a particularly good measure for 1Bs or Cs, since those jobs include a disprportionately large “hands” component that the metric doesn’t measure.
Since we're comparing this team to at this point last year
You should quit saying this is the same team. Maholm/Doumit/Jones/Morton/Karstens/Ronny/Cutch I will give you but half of them are in very different roles also. This is an entirely different team and light years better.
no it is not a different team, they have just gotten better... remember that the pirates were just as bad AFTER the callups, including the defense
2B- walker, SS- cedeno, 3B- alvarez, C- doumit/snyder, OF- tabata, cutch, jones
SP- morton, ohlendorf, mcdonald, maholm, RP- karstens, meek, hanrahan, resop
almost the entire starting lineup and rotation played half a season last year in the Burgh.
they ARE the same team.
i understand why you call it a different team, and im not slamming them at all...
in fact, im praising them for getting better, for becoming a major league team.
the players, the coaches and the FO all deserve kudos for the work they have put in.
"at this point last year"
is the key. We still had Clement, Aki, Burress, JJ, Milledge and so on trotting out there. I know this team didn’t have a great record in the second half but I really think coming into a lost season was the major reason.
Up the middle defense
Walker and McCutchen are noticeably better on defense this year. Cutch has been downright spectacular in CF and Walker is really starting to look more comfortable at second. The defense behind the plate has also been much better (Dusty Brown aside) and teams aren’t stealing bases at will against us like they were last year.
The defensive improvements have really been big so far, I hope they can keep it up!
This year feels different in that there are much fewer "same-old Pirates" games.
What I mean is that this team appears to be much better fundamentally and they haven’t had many remarkably stupid moments (Well, aside from the bunt infatuation, but that’s on Clint). In fact, we have seen the Bucs be the benefit of such displays of ineptitude a few times this year. It’s nice to not really have to wonder how the team is going to find a way to lose.
The true talent level of this team is probably 73-75 wins. The offense just needs to be better and I think the run-prevention has been a bit fortunate. Correia is defying all odds by not getting lit up, and I think Karstens, Maholm and Morton will see rises in their ERA. They’re each pitching very well, and I believe the new Charlie Morton is very much for real, but I think they’ve been a bit lucky this year.
Everything that guy just said is bullshit . . .thank you
so what is the true talent level of the Cubs? shouldnt they be better than the pirates?
maybe we’ve been underestimating just what our team can do. we HAVE talent… maybe they just needed to learn how to use it?
Well, I should say "present ability", not taking into account potential due to actual talent.
I don’t know the actual present ability of the Cubs because it would require an in-depth look into their peripheral stats and I frankly don’t give a shit about them. But, if it’s better than a 75 win team, then yes, they should be better than the Pirates in my opinion. If it’s not, then no, they shouldn’t be better than the Pirates in my opinion. By “better” I mean in the standings of course.
Everything that guy just said is bullshit . . .thank you
75 wins with one of our best players putting up a -.4 WAR to date. Just wait until we get our middle of the order 30+ HR bopper back. Then we are on the cusp of legit playoff contention.
I was looking at my fantasy team today. My 1B to start the year was Justin Smoak. Now I’ve got AGon, Lind, Moreland, Hafner on the DL and I was considering picking up Brett Wallace and I got so jealous wondering why the Pirates can’t find a decent, young 1B. I guess we’ve got about a 4% chance Curry keeps it up and improves his defense enough to be a starter next year.
Last 7 days hitting stats:
6 games, 208 AB, 60 Hits, 36 runs, .342OBP, .409SLG, .288 AVG
The cold fusion is heating up
"I'm gonna go get the papers, get the papers." - Jimmy Two Times
Looks like I can post on the site again.
Huzzah!
That sucked hardcore, missing the draft talk yesterday.
Wha hoppen?
interwebz got their hate on?
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 8, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Now you need to make a post to let out all your thoughts on the draft
I would like to discuss your thoughts on some of the picks yesterday.
IE, just like foosball
is the devil Bobby Boucher. But what momma don’t know won’t hurt her!
Agreed though, I would like to hear your thoughts on the draft
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Twitter: @shanecglass
This is something interesting, while we are not scoring a lot of runs the ENTIRE league is not scoring a lot of runs.
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/6/7/2206665/interactive-team-comparison-tool
if you look at the stats on this interactive chart, while the Pirates do have some problems, mostly due to their low slugging, we are either even or above average in a lot of categories compared to the rest of the league.
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