SB Nation Pittsburgh Editor's Pick
Celebrating Derek Jeter's career, by comparing him to Arky Vaughan
by Justin Mos on Jul 10, 2011 2:22 AM EDT
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Derek Jeter has put up one of the greatest offensive careers by a shortstop in league history. He just put up his 3000th hit, an impressive counting number. More importantly for this case he is top 10 in Wrc+ (wOBA adjusted for era) among shortstops and I don't think it is disputable that offensively he has had a hall of fame caliber career, even his most adamant haters should grudgingly admit that much. That said, this post isn't just meant to extol the virtues of Jeter, cause that wouldn't be fun on it's own, right? I am here to enlighten everyone here who doesn't know about the second best shortstop in Pirates history, a guy be the name of Arky.
Doesn’t it feel strange to realize if Jeter put up the same performance in New York that he did in Pittsburgh, he’d only be the 3rd greatest shortstop in franchise history as a hitter? At this point some people are probably saying, OK, I've heard of Honus Wagner, but Jeter's a top 10 all time hitting shortstop, and I don't think the Pirates have ANOTHER one of those, or I'd have heard of him. Then, they finally found out about Vaughn, research him, and realize the Pirates in fact DO have another top 10 hitting shortstop of all time. I don’t think many people would dispute that who looked at the numbers. Arky Vaughan was indeed a shortstop for the ages, and a better hitter than even Derek Jeter.
Arky Vaughan fun fact about his plate discipline, the man walked OVER 3 TIMES MORE OFTEN THAN HE STRUCK OUT. Jeter, more K’s than BB. Arky Vaughan has higher BA. Arky Vaughn, higher OBP, higher SLG, and if you want to adjust for era, Arky Vaughan’s Wrc+ is 14 or 15 points higher than Jeter's.
Yet more hype for Vaughan, his 1935 season Wrc+ is higher than any season in Derek Jeter’s, Ichiro Suzuki’s, Alex Rodriguez’s, or even Albert Pujols’ career.
You say you don't like fancy stuff like wRC+, well then try this on for size. In that 1935 season he had a .385 average, a .491 OBP, and a ,607 SLG for a .494 wOBA. What’s funny is he lost the MVP that year to a Gabby Hartnett, a catcher whose stats that year were quite spectacular, but not up to Arky’s. Hartnett was inferior in OPS, wOBA, and even the traditional MVP categories of the time like BA, RBI, hits, runs, home runs, and stolen bases. That .385 average was the highest single season average for a shortstop in the 20th century, and it was backed with a ton of walks and decent power to boot.
Some people here probably want that fabled thing called consistency and figure that with a season like that, he was probably a streaky hitter if I've never heard of him. Well, here was Arky Vaughans WORST offensive triple slash line with the Pirates in all 10 years he played for them. Are you ready for this? .318/.375/.412 for his WORST season.
Jeter is one of the top 10 hitting shortstops of all time, and a hall of fame guy, but as this guy named Vaughn who most here probably have only heard of in passing at most can show, the teammates and media can change an amazing player into a legend, and turn an even greater player into just a name by their failure to build up a player over the years. I'm pretty sure someone here if they tried could show off Arky's case even better than I, and argue that he is potentially the 2nd or 3rd greatest hitting shortstop of ALL-TIME. If so, get to it if you feel like it. I feel my job is done if I have brought attention to Arky Vaughan.
EDIT: Even I needed to learn more about him. It took a person from the comments to tell me I was spelling his name as Arky Vaughn, and not Vaughan as is correct.
Also, I might need to hide from some people for this comment, but Vaughan was probably the best baseball player to wear the #21 in Pirates history. (Off the field stuff combined with postseason heroics and career length obviously make Clemente THE #21 in Pirates history, I'm not disputing THAT at least, just the skill of each ballplayer relative to the league at their position. I don't think anyone would put Clemente as a top 5 outfielder of all time objectively, (Ruth, Ted Williams, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, and Stan Musial spent half+ their careers as outfielders) but I find it hard to find someone who would objectively put Vaughan OUTSIDE the top 5 at shortstop)
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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Very nice, Justin. I love it when the oldtimers get some love.
Lino Donoso
It never ceases to amaze me
how easily this team’s rich history flies under the radar.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
I truly love and appreciate posts like this!
I'm not as drunk as some thinkle peep I am.
by GoldNeck on Jul 10, 2011 11:09 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It's not that Jeter isn't a great player.
It’s just that he’s not as great a defender as all those jump throws from the hole have Noo Yawkahs thinking he is. But no denying he can hit, and that’s probably as good a milestone day at the plate as anyone’s every had.
Anyway, a couple other awesome hitters got moved off of shortstop during their careers. Ernie Banks was a shortstop, and since we’re talking about Jeter, there’s A-Rod, of course. But it’s good to remind modern fans about Arky who was a hell of a player.
What would make an interesting project for somebody smarter than me is to do an analysis of whether the Yankees would have been better off sabermetrically leaving Rodriguez at short and making Jeter move to third, though it’s not like they needed any more help.
Fantastic Post
and I couldn’t agree more with the comment about this team’s rich history flying under the radar. The losing streak has definitely played a role in overshadowing what this franchise has accomplished, the Pirates are still of one the most storied franchises in all of MLB.
Getting back to Arky Vaughn, there are two factors which had a negative affect on his legacy with the general public. First, he never played on a world series team as a Pirate, the closest he came was the 1936 club. Second, Vaughn died in a drowning accident, I think in the 1950s, so that played a role in his delayed induction to Cooperstown.
His mid 30s were lost to the war.
So that didn’t help either.
by MarkInDallas on Jul 10, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Also
his stats look amazing to us now, but it’s tough to understate the offensive inflation of the 1930s. In that era, most every team had some guy hitting .380. IIRC one team (Phillies?) had about a 7.50 ERA one year.
I understand hitting numbers were inflated in the 30s, that's why I used wRC+
It compares players to the average player of their era in wOBA, and says what percent better or worse they are than average with 100 being base. Arky Vaughn had a career 139 wOBA, which puts him on par with the career hitting of Reggie Jackson and Duke Snider, and slightly better than Jackie Robinson, Josh Hamilton, Vladimir Guerrero, and Brian Giles (another one of the most underrated hitters of all-time due to playing in a high scoring environment and in Pittsburgh and Petco he STILL put up great numbers, an over .900 career OPS and an adjusted for era wRC+ of 137 puts him in the same league as all the other guys mentioned), when adjusted for era.
Now, all those guys are either very famous, outfielders, or both. Arky Vaughn did this from the shortstop position. Just think about that.
Arky Vaughn has long been my favorite Pirate because he was really awesome. . .
and, relagively speaking, really obscure. Interestingly, he died in his 40s when he drowned fishing.
Everything that guy just said is bullshit . . .thank you
Arky
If you look at his career, it was so bizarre. The Bucs pushed him out of the SS job before he was 30 (nice move, Frankie Frisch) and traded him to the Dodgers in 1942, where he played well for a few years at 3B. Apparently, he hated playing for Durocher and voluntarily retired, and only played sparingly for the rest of his career. As good as his numbers were, he would be much more of a household name if he wasn’t mismanaged.
In regards to Wagner…in Bill James’ historical abstract, he states that the gap between his #1 and #2 SS of all time (Wagner and Vaughn) is the same as the gap between Vaughn and the #30 SS he ranked. So…having Wagner was basically like having Pujols. Except at shortstop.
Cool stuff, great post.
To elaborate a little ...
This comes from the original Historical Abstract:
“And, like Enos Slaughter, Arky’s missing about 550 hits that he ought to have. Late in the season in 1943, a Dodger team flap developed when Mickey Owen made a remark, apparently to a newspaperman, about Bobo Newsome throwing a spitball. Bobo was offended by this, and lashed out at Owen. Leo Durocher charged in trying to straighten things out, and wound up having words with Newsome, who he then suspended for no particular reason. After the next game, Vaughan took off his uniform and handed it to Durocher and said, in essence, ‘Here, if you’re going to take his uniform you can have mine, too.’ Durocher, flabbergasted that the reserved, respected Vaughan would instigate this rebellion, began to backtrack immediately, and the matter was cleared up without any fines, suspensions or direct repercussions. But it left an awkward relationship between Vaughan and Durocher, and Arky, who apparently didn’t care too much for Leo anyway, retired following the season, rather than create a problem in the clubhouse.”
James goes on to note Arky could still play, had hit .305 and was 31 years old and already had 2,000+ hits. And when Durocher was suspended three years later, Vaughan came back and hit .325 in a utility role.
A little nitpick here:
Can you please edit it to spell his name correctly?
It’s “Vaughan,” with a second “a.”
Great post – rec’d.
Arky’s bbref page here.
His HOF page here.
Did You Know:
that despite leaving his home state of Arkansas before his first birthday, one of Floyd Vaughan’s schoolmates tagged the future ballplayer with the moniker “Arky?”
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
Honus Wagner is still light years ahead of every other shortstop to ever play the game. Had AROD spent his entire career playing SS, he would have entered into the conversation with Wagner, but naturally, that isn’t happening now.
Vaughan is likely the 2nd or 3rd best SS of all-time. From a QUALITATITIVE standpoint, he had an amazing career. So did AROD in the years before he joined the Yankees. I’d probably give the edge to AROD as the 2nd best SS of all-time, but only by a hair. Had Vaughan played a full career without the Durocher incident, he’d be firmly entreched as the 2nd best SS ever and would IMO be a top 40 player of all-time. He was that darn good.
Bill James has Vaughan as his 2nd best SS ever, although that was without factoring in AROD’s evaluation. Interesting, according to James, the gap between Wagner (#1) and Vaughan (#2) was roughly the gap between Vaughan and the 20th best SS. That’s how amazing Wagner was.
It infuriated me over the weekend with all these baseball shows talking about whether Jeter is the best SS of all-time. Very few “experts” even mentioned Wagner. In my opinion, that should be instant grounds for firing. Jeter has never been an MVP and has never really ever been a top 3 player in his own league. Wagner was the best player in the NL for 9 years over a 10 year span.
In terms of shortstops, my top 8 would be Wagner, AROD ,Vaughan, Ripken, Jeter, Banks, Appling, Yount. Yount and Banks are both so hard to evaluate as pure SSs since they played a significant amount of time at other positions.
by slick720 on Jul 11, 2011 10:17 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Very good top 8, but I MIGHT be inclined to put Barry Larkin ahead of Yount.
Looking at the numbers, even adjusted for era, Larkin comes out as the better hitter career wise. Larkin also had similar postseason numbers to Yount too, so we can’t take that away from him. Just figured I’d mention it.
I think Bill Dahlen should be in the Hall of Fame personally, but that ship has sailed for him unfortunately. I think if you compare him to Hughie Jennings, he is the superior player. I haven’t seen too many “statheads” who have any gripes about Jennings being in the HOF, so Dahlen needs to be there. Unfortunately, Jennings has the better raw stats, which is what got him inducted. If this was 2011 and not the 40s and 50s, I think both would be in Cooperstown.
Cronin is another guy who could easily be in the top 10. Jeter is the 5th best shortstop in the 150 year history of baseball. There is no shame in that. Just don’t embellish his accomplishments into something they are not.
This thread has got me to thinking...
How the hell do the Bucs appropriately honor this guy? Typically, the move would be to retire his number. However, since he wore 21 for the majority of his Pirates career, this might be problematic. Some teams have simply retired a number twice when faced with such a dilemma. But 21 is the most sacred number in the constellation of Pirates greats. There are a fair number of fans out there who would be apoplectic should this path be taken. My gut says F those fans — Arky had it first — while still understanding their sentiment. He also wore 3 and 5 for a year each at the end of his time with the team, yet those don’t seem entirely appropriate since neither is representative of him as a Buc.
I don’t have the answer here, just the question and a feeling that I would like to see something in this vein.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
Honoring Arky Vaughn
I think there are a variety of ways to give Vaughn more recognition, which don’t involve the number 21 or building a statue. I’ve never been to PNC Park, but maybe they could increase Vaughn’s visibility at that location? Don’t know if Vaughn has any living relatives, but a tribute night seems appropriate, too. The Bucs could wear those 1930s throwbacks again(they wore them back around 1990), and honor Vaughn along with the Waners.
The team could support any author interested in writing a biography of Vaughn, and suggest to MLB Productions to commission a dvd history of the team. There was a vhs version released in the 80s, and a dvd would cover Vaughn with the other greats.
These are just a few ideas I had, MLB Network had a few clips on Vaughn as he was featured in their Top Ten Shortstops show I saw last year.
by SteelStealth on Jul 11, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
The Montreal Canadiens
Have retired #12, and they have a banner with two player names on it: Dickie Moore and Yvan Cournouyer.
Also #16, with Elmer Lach and Henri Richard
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 12, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Vaughn Throwback Jersey
Another way to pay tribute to Arky Vaughn would be in merchandising. There doesn’t seem to be many Pirates throwbacks jerseys before 1960 for some strange reason. I could see Vaughn’s red/blue #21 jersey as something fans would buy.
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