Trade season is officially open
by Thunder on Jul 13, 2011 12:15 AM EDT
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PrintThe major league trade season officially began within an hour of the end of the All Star Game. The Milwaukee Brewers have acquired Francisco Rodriguez (KRod) and cash from the New York Mets for 2 players to be named later
This provides the Brewers a proven closer as they make a push to win the NL Central this season. It is likely also a sign that the Brewers are going for broke this season, knowing that they are unlikely to re-sign Prince Fielder at the end of the season.
It will be interesting to see how other teams, including the Pirates, respond in reshaping their rosters for the second half of the season. I don't recall a significant move so close to the end of the All Star Game in the past. It may be a signal that teams will not wait until July 31st to make their moves.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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yup just saw this on mlbtr, any news on the return that the Mets get
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
oh wow i need to read, mets are the ones sending cash! they really wanted to get rid of him and that option.
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
Terrible Trade for the Brewers
As a Pirate fan, I’m loving this trade.
KRod is no where near the dominant reliever he once was. He’d be a decent arm out of the pen (Veras is just as good), but for the price tag he’s not worth it. The Brewers all but ended their chance of resigning Fielder as they will most likely be on the hook for $17.5 million to KRod next season.
KRod has been shaky this year, and it should be fun watching him blow a few games for the Brewers and watching them pay him $17.5 million next year.
by NOLABUCCO on Jul 13, 2011 12:44 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
eh looks like he’ll be the setup guy and not get that option, at least thats what brewcrewball thinks. anyways, its not looking bad at all until we find out who the eventually PTBNL are.
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
Baseball Tonight
Seems to think KRod and Axford will split time at closer, so KRod won’t reach the magical number for the $17.5 million option to kick in. If they do that, KRod will likely become disgruntled as he sees himself as one of the game’s elite relievers. He’s a bad locker room guy who could become worse if he’s not the “every day” closer. See his incident at Citi Field with his father-in-law last year.
by NOLABUCCO on Jul 13, 2011 12:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i think he has come to realize though that not being able to reach the 55 finishes and getting the option is becoming more and more likely, only time will tell how this one plays out, i cant see the Brewers screwing up though and allowing him to finish the 55 games.
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
It'll be interesting to see what the Brewers do
I just can’t see KRod waiving his no trade clause to go to the Brewers without the Brewers telling him he’ll be the closer.
I don’t think his ego will allow him to be the set up guy to John Axford without causing problems in that club house.
He’d be fine being the set up man for the Yankees or Red Sox like he said a few weeks ago because those teams already have dominant, big name closers.
Time will tell.
by NOLABUCCO on Jul 13, 2011 1:06 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Didn't have to
KRod’s no trade clause only covered 10 teams and the Brewers weren’t one of them. He did not have to waive it for the trade.
Not necessarily
No trade clauses are usually reserved for providing leverage to the player. Most of the time the teams on the no trade clause are the Yankees, Cubs, Mets, etc. It doesn’t mean they wouldn’t agree to waive it, but it just means the acquiring team might be forced to pick up a dangling option year if they really want the player.
by MarkInDallas on Jul 13, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
It did come out that the Pirates were on the list, and while we are now winning games…we still have Hanrahan closing out games, which would have kept the Pirates even more unappealing than when they were losing.
This K-Rod thing is about $$$. Milwaukee was a buyer, and the Mets were motivated sellers. Boras has come out saying that K-Rod would not do well as a set-up man (how that makes any sense is beyond me) — he is a closer and should be doing just that. Well, Boras/K-Rod have 17.5m reasons to think that…it’ll be interesting to see how it plays out.
Here’s to hoping he becomes a clubhouse cancer and sinks the Brewers — one less team for the Pirates to have to deal with.
by insane_sanity on Jul 14, 2011 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s actually in Boras’s financial interest that K-Rod’s option doesn’t vest. His existing deal was negotaiated by his prior representative, so Boras doesn’t get a cut of it, but if K-Rod goes to free agency this offseason, Boras gets to charge his percentage on the new deal.
It speaks well of Boras that he’d do what’s right for his client, rather than himself, in this particular case.
good call
was not aware of a change in representation for K-Rod. Thank you for the info.
I hate Boras as he is always working against the Pirates.
That said, if my son was projected to be a top pick….I’d have to entertain the thought of having Boras as his advisor/representative. He does a damn good job for his clients.
by insane_sanity on Jul 14, 2011 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
If they hold him at 54 games,
the MLBPA will have a fit. And they could, potentially, force the Brewers to accept the option.
Not saying it will happen, but playing someone in a way to avoid a contract situation could be violating terms of an agreement.
If you look at the numbers
you can make a legitimate argument that Axford is the better closer. With the mythos around the closer role, arguing that the guy has been steady and that you didn’t want to “upset his mojo” or some other silliness can support that in many baseball circles. If the MLBPA argues that closers are just swap-able relievers, tehn they dump leverage down the drain for about 25 players, so I don’t see them doing that. Only if Axford explodes, or gets hurt (or gets hurt through an explosion) will KROD become the closer. With the Mets paying $5, that covers the automatic $3.5 M buyout, plus a little on the side. If KROD can keep his attitude in check, I see this a s a pretty decent move for the Brewers.
by Wizard of Woz on Jul 13, 2011 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Axford > KRod
There is no genuine debate. Axford had a terrible spring training and was roughed up his first game of the season on opening day, Since then, he has posted a 1.99 ERA, 16 BB’s, 52 K’s in 40 2/3 IP, 23 saves in 24 chances.
Axford deals at 96-97 mph with a nasty slider. The Brewers are idiots if they give the job to KRod, who has a higher ERA, higher WHIP, fewer K’s per 9 IP, higher fly ball rate, more blown saves, higher BA allowed, and higher OPS against.
Okay, okay … I own Axford in a fantasy league. Maybe I am biased. Or maybe I am just right!
Fronm the Brewers POV
it doesn’t even have to be that clear cut. As long as they can make a legitimate case, they will be fine. Even if think KROD is better, they are in a position to maximize thier closers. They can use the better one for “real saves” (1 run games) and the other for 3 run games to keep both happy. Or they can just use KROD as the set up guy. Wither way, this is a decent deal for the Brewers. If they decide to keep him, its $17.5 mil for 1.5 years of a decent closer. Not a great deal, by justifiable. Really a win-win, with options, for the Brewers.
by Wizard of Woz on Jul 13, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Lot to pay for a set-up guy
Brewers are paying a lot for a set-up guy. Trading a can of spam, and being on the hook for K-Rod’s buy-out, is giving up a lot considering that the Pirates have two set-up guys who are (IMO and based upon credible stats) better than K-Rod and were obtained for nothing: Jose Veras and Chris Resop.
I have MLB.tv and watch too many games. K-Rod is just not very good. His slider is a plus pitch, but his fastball is hittable and his control is spotty at times.
Brewers just spent a ton of money, and apparently gave up two middling minor league players, to get a player who is not as good as the litany of free agent and waiver-wire additions made by Huntington.
“Brewers are paying a lot for a set-up guy.”
“I don’t see anything wrong with that. Not one bit.”
- – Rafael Soriano
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 13, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Doomsday scenario:
John Axford is out for the year. Tight division race in late September, K-Rod’s at 54 GF, and a game’s on the line late in the season.
Ron Roenicke: “Sorry, my gut just said that’s a spot where you have to go with LaTroy Hawkins.”
by ElDuce on Jul 13, 2011 1:09 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Bobby V + Kruk
Seem to think that the Brewers “can’t” attempt to restrict KRod so his $17.5 million option won’t kick in. Something along the lines of “You can’t tell the guy to not be great because you don’t want to pay him. What kind of message does that send to your team?”
Basically they’re suggesting that you pitch him to win this year and if he reaches the 21 more games ended so be it. If not, good. But that’s not something they can worry about going forward this year.
I hope he gets the 21 games, so the Brewers are stuck with his awful contract next year. And I hope his stuff (fastball only 90-92 now a days) continues to diminish and that he has some more struggles this season.
by NOLABUCCO on Jul 13, 2011 1:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Haven't the bucs walked-off on him?
I think I remember it happening. That and the Hoffman blown saves.
The only downside that I see here is that when we fight the Brewers, they now have one more guy who I see as dangerous. K-Rod is an experienced fighter, ask his relatives. So that leaves me wondering, Who can throw a better punch, Pena or A-Ram?
stats vs KRod
Carlos Pena 0 for 7
ARAM 0 for 5
not much help there. still want Pena
no, H2O meant *punch*
And honestly, I’m not intimidated by K-Rod. You have to adjust his stats for the league. When you translate decking your father-in-law into its major-league equivalent, you get:
and Hurdle can take him.
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Jul 13, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
One of my all-time favorite baseball moments.
Watching Don Zimmer wander out onto the field like some guy in an old folks home looking for the person who stole his dish of tapioca pudding, then getting dumped to the ground by Pedro, always makes me chuckle.
this gets rec'd
for the line: “translate decking your father-in-law into its major-league equivalent”
You can’t tell the guy to not be great because you don’t want to pay him. What kind of message does that send to your team?
They aren’t telling him he can’t be great. They’re telling him he can’t fill a particular role. He can be just as great as he wants as a setup man, and it won’t affect the option one way or the other.
They also have Takashi Saito
Former All-Star closer, 2.22 career ERA, 84 career saves in MLB, struck out 10+ batters per nine in five of the last six years (including 2011 to date).
Seems like it’d be pretty easy to justify going with him in a tough spot, if they were so inclined.
An Evan Meek return would be huge for the Pirates’ pen. I’m still not really sold on Watson, Leroux, Wood, etc. Bucs need another big-game reliever.
Signs I'm on this board too much
I read the post
An Evan Meek return would be huge
and thought, “Why would you want him to post more? Are you INSANE… oh wait, I guess he meant the pitcher. Carry on.”
by Wizard of Woz on Jul 13, 2011 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
So they're stuck...
with either Axford closing this year, or K-Rod making 17MM next year. Lol. Buh-bye Prince!
I wouldn’t say they’re “stuck” with Axford closing this year. Stats for each guy the last two years are very similar, and probably favor Axford:
Axford: 99.1 IP 2.63 ERA 11.7 K/9 4.0 BB/9 2.18 FIP 2.68 xFIP 47/52 saves
Rodriguez: 100.0 IP 2.61 ERA 10.2 K/9 3.3 BB/9 2.78 FIP 3.17 xFIP 48/56 saves
Well unless they already have 7 relievers as good as Axford....
They don’t, their bullpen has been shaky. This is a definite upgrade for the Brewers.
those sneaky bastard mets
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 13, 2011 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Brewers goin all-in
At least the Pirates, if they stay put, will have a better shot at winnning the division. Moreso if Big Albert leaves St. Louis
Jon Heyman reports
The Brewers made the deal without speaking to K-Rod or Boras. After the trade went down Boras called and argued that Rodriguez needs to the closer to be effective and won’t be the same pitcher if he’s just a set-up man. Melvin told him it would “work itself out”.
I guess he won’t be the same pitcher because he’s going to sulk the rest of the year?
by MarkInDallas on Jul 13, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Go ahead a sulk
then, when you are a free agent, you can watch your value go down the tubes. If you want to close, stipulate that in your next contract, or STFU
by Wizard of Woz on Jul 13, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
OPERATION SHUTDOWN REDUX
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 13, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Pirates trade options
All of the readers here seem to be all over the place on who or what the Pirates should acquire.
I am curious to see what people think who or what the Pirates should trade for (if anything) during the next two weeks. I would love to see Carlos Beltran (obviously at the right price). Being a switch hitter he hits well against both righties and lefties and would be an ideal candidate to hit in the 4 hole behind McCutchen.
I thought this thread was appropriate to start this conversation.
No thanks
I have no interest in Beltran except as a rental (his contract’s up after this year, right?). He’s still enough of a “name” that he’ll demand a biggish contract, but his injury history is plenty to keep me away from him for more than one year at a time.
Correct, he is a FA to be. He will also be 35 next year so I can’t imagine a team would give him too many years. I’d like to start at a 2 year offer and possibly give an option for year 3. My reasons for this are
(1) While yes, he’s been injured the last 2 years, he was very healthy before that and is healthy again now.
(2) Outside of 1B, he and Reyes are the top bats on the market. We will also have a lot of $$ to play with.
(3) It would allow us to use a Tabata, Presley, Jones, or Marte in a deal for a long-term SP, 1B, or SS.
I like Beltran too, but what do you do with Tabata/Elvis if you make that deal? I think in a perfect world both of those guys still start.
Now…do I remember Beltran working out at 1b a year or so ago? If he could be persuaded to play first, I could get on board.
Beltran's an upgrade for 2011
over both Tabata and Presley. If he can be had at reasonable cost, then go for it.
(Even better if he agrees to play 1st occasionally)
Whenever I think of Beltran I remember Adam LaGIDP
by BlindSquirrel on Jul 13, 2011 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
interesting
when I think of Beltran, I think of Houston picking him up for a playoff push….and him being absolutely dominant in the playoffs.
That was fun to watch.
by insane_sanity on Jul 14, 2011 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions
With the Giants interested in Beltran...
I don’t see us landing him. Somebody will overpay for three months of Beltran, probably the Giants, who have one of the worst offenses I can remember a contender having. I can see a bidding war coming for him as the deadline approaches, which is something the Pirates should avoid.
agreed
I think most teams will be reluctant to give up a top prospects (which is what the Mets are asking for) especially because he can’t be offered arbitration. However, I can see one of these desperate teams like the Giants trading something of substance for him.
But from what I heard, the Giants would prefer to go after a younger player who is locked up for a couple of seasons (maybe Hunter Pence) and would be willing to give up a couple of top prospect for that player
Giants
they’ve been very very good about not giving up top prospects in the recent past. I’m very curious to see how they handle this.
by BurgherKing on Jul 14, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know about that
They gave us Vogelsong, an all-star starter for some bum who isn’t even playing anymore. We totally pwned them on that trade.
Hahaha, stupid Giants, suckers.
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