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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

National League 5, American League 1

PHOENIX, AZ - JULY 12:  National League All-Star Joel Hanrahan #52 of the Pittsburgh Pirates and National League All-Star Tyler Clippard #36 of the Washington Nationals celebrate the National League 5-1 victory during the 82nd MLB All-Star Game at Chase Field on July 12, 2011 in Phoenix, Arizona.  (Photo by Christian Petersen/Getty Images)

This wasn't a particularly noteworthy game for the three Pirates involved, obviously - Kevin Correia didn't pitch, Andrew McCutchen got one at-bat and grounded out, and Joel Hanrahan got a strikeout and then saw a couple of batters reach base, in part due to some of the kind of fielding the Pirates haven't seen much of since, oh, 2010. But hey. Home-field advantage in the World Series! I'm sure the Bucs will be sure to send Prince Fielder a bottle of wine after they take a 2-0 lead in late October.

And yes, that's a joke.

-P- Speaking of jokes, one columnist for a Grove City paper said some silly stuff about Andrew McCutchen yesterday.

-P- I did a segment last night - just before the news of the Francisco Rodriguez trade broke - about the Pirates on a SIRIUS radio station based in Canada. Here's the clip. I come in at about the 27:00 mark (and there are briefly some audio problems around there, but they quickly stop). Be warned that there are some words sprinkled throughout that wouldn't make it onto American radio, and the segment before I come on is very much NSFW.

The host asked a question about putting the Pirates' attendance this year in perspective that I wasn't totally sure about. Just glancing through the attendance marks for the past decade, though, you probably have to go back to when PNC Park opened in 2001 to see the Pirates drawing like they have in the past few weeks.

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in Boston

the whining about the NL winning and therefore losing Papi as a DH has already started

Yinzers uber alles

by BostonBuc on Jul 13, 2011 7:47 AM EDT reply actions  

Well,

it they signed players that could, you know, play baseball instead of just hit, this wouldn’t be a problem.

Sale the DH. Seriously

by Wizard of Woz on Jul 13, 2011 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, it they signed players that could, you know, play baseball instead of just hit, this wouldn’t be a problem.

Seriously. If your star player is too fat and feeble to handle the rigorous physical demands of first base, you’ve got larger issues.

by Vlad on Jul 13, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still believe that using the ASG

as the determinant for WS home field is one of the silliest and least supportable rules MLB has ever foist on the game. Use the games won standard, there would be little or no end-of season “resting” of star players, jockeying for playoff position, etc. Perhaps if the starters in the ASG were selected by a better process than homer fans…

My heros have always been Steelers...

by wozzle on Jul 13, 2011 9:21 AM EDT reply actions  

I agree to a certain point...

Some divisions are harder than others so sometimes the best record isn’t the best team and anyway it could get PNC Park one more home game why not?

by Joey Mooney on Jul 13, 2011 9:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yes. Make it a meaningless exhibition game again. I seem to recall enjoying the game much more back then (now, get of my lawn). Reduce the number of players and make it an actual honor to go and stick to the fan voting.

Put on your dancin' shoes.

by PensFan024 on Jul 13, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agree, the All-Star Game voting system is moronic.

Despite that, the right players usually end up there.

by bucdaddy on Jul 13, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's one of my biggest pet peeves.

I just feel like they are absolutely fence-sitting about whether the All-Star Game should be fun or serious, and as a result it’s really neither.

If it’s for fun, then let the fans pick every player, so long as every team gets a representative. In fact, let the fans of each team vote on their own rep, and then use a league-wide pool for everyone else. Everyone gets an inning. Game doesn’t count.

If it’s for serious, then you have to let the managers hand-pick their teams and actually manage the game like a real game. If that means the Orioles don’t get a rep or that McCutchen doesn’t see action, well, that sucks, but hey, that’s the way the game works. Winner gets WS advantage.

Personally, I think either way would be fine. But I can’t see how you can possibly justify having it straddle the line between “exhibition for funsies” and “serious contest for realsies.”

by Garrett122 on Jul 13, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's to be expected

when “Bud” gets flustered, and has to make a real decision.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 14, 2011 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pat Connelly -- alumnus of the John Steigerwald School of Journalism

Wow. I hope that Patrick Connelly got his degree in something else, because if all his columns read like that one, he’s going to need something else to fall back on.

by Fat Jimmy on Jul 13, 2011 10:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Total lack of baseball knowledge

Maybe Connelly isn’t a baseball guy at all. Even the most die hard traditional stats guy knows walks are nearly as valuable as hits. He’s judging Cutch they way you would judge a player in a 5×5 Roto league. Maybe this is the extent of Connelly’s knowledge.

by uneasy rider on Jul 13, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not just the walks

I can’t even follow the point of the column! If I read it correctly, it seems that his point is that Shane Victorino deserved the spot instead of McCutchen. Is that really worth a column (anywhere other than Philly)?

by Fat Jimmy on Jul 13, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

The first thing that popped for me was his picture. Like the majority of sports journalists- and I myself have worked with many- they are all fat and extremely proud of themselves for being able to pick on athletes, even though they have never played a single minute of anything. (See Mark Madden for the perfect example.)

And dude, please learn how to use a period! You write for a newspaper- extremely long run-on sentences only worked on your AP English test!

though anyone who knows baseball will tell you each of the three positions are, in fact, three separate and unique positions.

That sentence should end with “Or so I’ve been told.”

"Hockey is the only tribe I belong to." -Jack Falla
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by AlexStitch on Jul 13, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was not referring to that sentence.

"Hockey is the only tribe I belong to." -Jack Falla
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by AlexStitch on Jul 13, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

My Philosophy on the All-Star Game

The MLB MUST do one of the two following things to the game:

1.) Throw away the home field advantage incentive and strictly make it for fun. With than in mind, I still cannot stand all these guys withdrawing from the game who do not have legitimate reasons to do so. So to help combat that, if players want to receive any kind of all-star bonus incentive, they must show up to the game and be in roster eligible to play. If they don’t end up playing just because they do not get into the game, so be it, but they cannot simply do what Jeter and A-Rod did and just say, “Eh, I’ll skip, but I’ll still take my bonus money, than you very much!”
-If you are to throw away the home field advantage, the MLB can continue to allow the fan vote to determine the starters of the game, I don’t have any problem with that
-Also in this scenario, continue to keep the rule that at least one representative must come from each team

2.) The MLB continues to keep the home field incentive and tries to maintain a somewhat serious tone to the game, but under the following circumstances:
-Fan voting can stay. At it’s heart, the all-star game really is about the fans, but with that in mind, their selections do not automatically equate to starting or even seeing any playing time at all. It’ll just be a nice way to keep the fans involved.
-Allow BASEBALL WRITERS ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA to select the teams. Yes, the BBWAA. Not coaches, not managers, not GMs, not players, but the most established baseball writers that we have around. Why? As we saw from this year, having players and the teams manager select players doesn’t turn out well, it’s pretty evident that these guys do not watch enough baseball beyond their own teams to make fair and legitimate selections. I wouldn’t mind general managers, but there’s something about that which seems very “behind closed doors,” that would involve a lot of calls to each other, etc… With having established writers do it, I think you hit a homerun. You get guys who live and breath baseball, watch a wide array of teams, and you would also get a good mix of guys who know the game well both from the classic naked eye talent judging standpoint, as well as the sabermetrics view. I’m looking at the list right now of current BBWAA members, wouldn’t it be nice to have a selection committee of lets say: Ira Berkow, Ron Blum, Thomas Boswell, Mike Dodd, Peter Gammons, Pedro Gomez, Ken Gurnick, Jon Heyman, Dejan Kovacevic, Tim Kurkjian, Keith Law, Rob Neyer, Buster Olney, Ken Rosenthal, Peter Schmuck, Dan Shaughnessy, Joel Sherman, Tom Verducci, and that’s just to name some of the guys in the BBWAA
-As for the one representative from every team rule, I actually have always enjoyed it, I don’t why. I guess it adds a nice universal feel to the all-star game, but if that’s a cut that must be made, I can live with it

by Zach Buccos on Jul 13, 2011 11:24 AM EDT reply actions  

Don’t confuse the Ohio State fellow with reason.

Thank you Ned Colletti.

by ryebr3ad on Jul 13, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

hahahaha

" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009

by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 13, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Neil Walker + Tabata would like to see Dejan on your committee

But, seriously, there’s nothing that can help the ASG. It was only interesting when it was a novelty to see players from different cities. That all started to change with SportsCenter and it was further eroded by interleague play and, finally, the Internet.

I don’t need to see Matt Kemp or Prince Fielder play, because I’ve seen them bat 1,000 times before. Throw in the fact that the game means nothing (home field advantage isn’t that significant in baseball) and the boring pre-game introductions, and there’s no reason to seek it out in a world with so many other entertainment options.

by bolton on Jul 13, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

One reason, and one reason alone.

MONEY
MONEY
MONEY

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 13, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

meh, I disagree

For me, the novelty of seeing the best guys all on one team is enough. We watch 162 “regular” games with the same 25 guys playing together that I think it’s inherently interesting to watch two completely different teams.

I understand the argument that in this age of interleague and ESPN we’ve theoretically seen all these matchups before, but in a regular game, the matchup of one team’s best hitter and the other’s best pitcher only happens at most 4 or 5 times a game. In the ASG, basically every AB is one team’s best against another’s, which to me is pretty cool.

there’s no reason to seek it out in a world with so many other entertainment options.

Unless baseball is your favorite form of entertainment, in which case it’s pretty okay.

That being said, the system is flawed and they need to decide whether it’s just for fun or a serious contest — see my above post on this. But I still like it.

Oh, and one more nit to pick:

home field advantage isn’t that significant in baseball

It’s probably more significant in baseball than any other sport. In every other sport “home field advantage” basically means “crowd noise.” In baseball it means crowd noise plus a small but significant tactical advantage in late-game situations.

by Garrett122 on Jul 13, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, you disagree...

…to each his own.

You do raise an interesting point about the tactical advantage of being the home team. It’s something I never consider because I just haven’t seen it come into play very often. When I try to predict a series for betting purposes, I completely ignore the home-field situation.

And I’m not alone. The managers, whether it’s during the ASG or the last weekend of the regular season, don’t seem to care about gaining home field. If they don’t think it’s important, why should I?

But I have no evidence to say you’re wrong. We’ll see if it helps the Pirates in late October.

by bolton on Jul 13, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

If they don’t think it’s important, why should I?

Hahaha that’s a good point, Bolton.

Regarding “home field advantage,” I do agree that’s it’s not a humongous deal. But it’s statistically significant on some level.

Basically what it boils down to is that in a 9th-inning or extra-innings situation, the home manager can be a little more strategic with his bullpen. Or as the old adage goes “Play to win at home, play to tie on the road.”

by Garrett122 on Jul 13, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I already don't like working journalists voting for awards.

I don’t like that they vote for MVP or Cy Young or Hall of Fame or who’s No. 22 in this week’s AP basketball poll. I think it’s a clear and obvious conflict of interests, and I don’t understand why newspapers and other media outlets don’t absolutely ban it. It’s not in a journalist’s job description to help Pujols win his bonus for MVP or Halladay win his bonus for Cy Young, or to help anyone get his bonus for making the All-Star game. Working journalists helped Bert Blyleven, who spent years complaining about them stiffing him for the Hall, triple or quadruple his asking price for an autograph, and that seems to me just flat-out wrong.

If you moved the setting to, say, City Hall it would be such an obvious conflict that no one would seriously even consider, say, casting an actual vote on whether to award a construction contract. But because sports is supposedly fun and games (and not billion-dollar business) it’s not supposed to matter if your vote helps Pujols or Halliday or A-Rod make an extra $50,000 or $100,000.

I don’t know how they can live with themselves, but I guess I’m a purist.

By the way, I draw a distinction between columnists writing about their own choices for all-star versus actually casting a ballot for them. There’s nothing wrong with the former, that’s what a columnist is supposed to do.

And BTW, I’m not sure Dejan would be eligible for the BBWAA. I think their rules say you have to attend X number of games (I think it was 100) for Y number of years (I think it was 10) before you could become a member, unless the rules have changed.

by bucdaddy on Jul 13, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dejan is

I was just looking at the current member list and he is indeed on there

by Zach Buccos on Jul 13, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree 100 percent with bucdaddy.

Dejan is definitely a member. His rookie of the year ballot (Tabata over Heyward) showed the pitfalls of having journalists vote for awards.

by bolton on Jul 13, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

ot but it needs said

what makes wvu better then osu? jennifer garner

" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009

by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 14, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still like it

The biggest reason is I get to see the best against the best. I want to see the best though and that’s why I get po’d when dudes decide to skip it. If I ruled the world, the guys who decide to skip the game would be eliminated from future consideration to the game unless they had a really good excuse.

"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"

by CAGGS on Jul 13, 2011 12:26 PM EDT reply actions  

A lot of players may think the All-Star game is a joke, especially those who have already been there and experience it. Don’t forget those who are not selected spend the week with their families, which I would say is a pretty good reason to not want to go.

"Hockey is the only tribe I belong to." -Jack Falla
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by AlexStitch on Jul 13, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

espcially when you consider

you spend so much time away from them. 162 games is a long haul

" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009

by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 13, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Understood

I just feel that its a slap in the face of the fans who voted them in and pay to see them play. I’m not sure, but it doesn’t seem like they have too many responsibilities during the break except for the game and the HR derby. They have the offseason to vacation with their families if they want more time. Either way I’m just ready for the second half to get started.

"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"

by CAGGS on Jul 13, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Best All-Star game around

It’s still the best of the four All-Star games. For the other three major sports, they don’t have their full playbooks, they don’t play at full speed and they don’t bother really playing defense so the game ends up looking like a scrimmage. You never see something like Bautista’s sliding catch in the other sports’ All-Star games.

I do think that MLB should make a set incentive clause for All-Star appearances with bigger incentives for players who show up or for those who start the game. Not the guys elected to start the game, the guys who actually start it.

by Aphthakid on Jul 13, 2011 12:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Eh, I think the NBA and NHL All-Star games are fun to watch simply for entertaining the idea of seeing what these players could do if they were able to be on the same team. I know that the NHL game lacks the hitting that regular games have, but the skill is still there, and it’s fun watching players who may have never played together before know exactly where the other is and make some great passes and reads.

"Hockey is the only tribe I belong to." -Jack Falla
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by AlexStitch on Jul 13, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn’t say those games aren’t fun, just saying they aren’t as fun.

by Aphthakid on Jul 13, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Think the NBA All Star game is more entertaining

For the firs quarter or so, you get to watch guys try silly moves, dunks, plays, etc. Then as the game goes on, the guys get much more serious and you get to watch the best of the best play some real ball. You also get to see all the players who were selected. You have so many players selected for the all star team in the MLB that they can’t all possibly get a chance to pitch or get more than 1 at-bat.

by dulciusXasperis on Jul 13, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

sale the nba

its tall mans soccer

" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009

by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 13, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

you get to watch the best of the best play some real ball

For values of “real ball” that don’t include defense.

by Vlad on Jul 13, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

"What is

… this ‘defense’ you speak of?"

- L. Bird

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 13, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

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