Olney: Bucs looking for a "stable" veteran presence in the outfield
So sayeth Buster on Twitter.
Have to think they'd want the veteran to have significant playoff experience to guide the young guys on the team if they make it.
Speculations anyone?
11 months ago
Raybin
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Beltran would be an AWESOME rental
Particularly when it comes to the playoff thing. In 22 playoff games, he’s smacked 11 homers and posted a slash line of .366/.485/.817(!!)
Kamerion Wimbley is the truth
Beltran has no-trade protection.
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 15, 2011 1:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He may waive it...
…if the Mets stumble and fall out of contention the next two weeks.
Read a report that said if Beltran is dealt to anyone, it won’t be until the last minute. The Mets want to wait to see what the next two weeks bring…do they fall out of contention or climb back into it. The Pirates probably want to give Alex Presley as much time as possible to either cool off or keep roaring along.
The timing works out for both teams then. If the Pirates are still rolling along by then and the Mets have collapsed, it’s certainly not improbable Beltran could waive.
Kamerion Wimbley is the truth
If the Astros insist on holding Pence...
Beltran is the #1 OF on the market, and it is being said that the mets are holding out for an A prospect. Even if they dont get an A prospect, he is going to have enough teams going after him, that we would have to give up more than I’d be willing to in order to get him.
Presley, Gorkys, JMac, and an SP from Indy?
None of them are A prospects, but you’ve got 2 ML-ready players with lots of team control, another MiL OF who’d be solid in Citi Field’s vast expanses, and another SP who’s a year away from being a legit 3-4 SP.
I don’t know which contenders need RFs, though. Given Beltran’s recent history, I think it’d be nuts to give up a Marte or better for him. I’ll also note that I just read a pretty good argument that neither the Yanks nor Sox will be players in the deadline market, because they’re both near-locks to reach the playoffs and neither has glaring holes that can plausibly be filled via trade (the closest is that both are thin wrt SPs, but neither needs one, and I don’t think that competes with us anyway).
BTW, to clarify
I think the centerpiece of the deal would be the SPs, with Presley as a short-term replacement for Beltran and Gorkys the wildcard. I think that 2 mid-rotation SPs with multiple years of control is tempting for any team, even if they fantasize about getting a Taillon.
this is the kind of trade
that, imo, would be an absolute fail if the Bucs didnt make the playoffs, and may be even then.
I cannot believe the Mets will get more than Gorkys + JMac on the market. Frankly, I’d be happier giving up one blue chip prospect (Allie, e.g., not Taillon) and fringe pieces like Wilson/Pribanic, than both Presley and JMac for a half season rental.
JMac
He’s an important rotation piece. 3 runs or less allowed in 13 of his last 14 starts. Too much for Beltran.
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 15, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe I'm too down on him
I’m reasonably pro-JMac, but he’s been inconsistent (look at his FIP and xFIP splits by month) both by results and peripherals.
That said, I was looking for a package that would approximate a blue chipper without actually giving up anything we need. If we could get it done for the package I listed (using one of the lower upside AAA SPs) without JMac, I’d be happy to do it. I think Presley could be (semi) legit, but he has no place in a Marte-Tabata-Cutch OF, and trading a 4th OF for a half season rental that gets you, if not into the playoffs, at least into the last week of the season, sounds OK to me. It would revolutionize Pirates baseball.
Still
JMac is another arm for this rotation. And although he’s shown inconsidtency this year, he’s still a big part of this rotation. IMO, the only way the Bucs should trade him would be as part of a package for another starting pitcher. Maybe a Liriano type pitcher that would improve this rotation, not weaken it. I wouldn’t mind seeing the Bucs trading for a rental like Beltran. But the cost of Presley, Gorkys, JMac, and another Indy pitcher is a massive overpay. Having Tabata, Cutch, and Presley in the outfield is very exciting. I’d rather they make a move for a power hitting corner infielder or another decent starting pitcher.
lol i cant contain myself as your setting me up for this....
Andre Ethier. As I rosterbated about him in the thread
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
Ethier patrolling right field would be awesome
And so would his one more year of team control.
He said recently he wants to still be a Dodger…that could be sincere or it could jus be him saying the right things. I have no idea one way or the other.
You’d have to think Colletti could extract a pretty huge price fo rhim though.
Kamerion Wimbley is the truth
Melky is who I fear
especially with his post season experience.
by Wizard of Woz on Jul 15, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think Tabata is untouchable
In fact I’m fairly certain NH would move him in a package for the right piece, but it’d have to be an EXCELLENT piece. Ace starter, perennial All-Star, something all those lines.
Kamerion Wimbley is the truth
no way...
Tabata is far from his ceiling. There’s no way the Pirates could enough value for him. Flies in the face of everything Huntington has done so far. That said, no one is untouchable. Just that some are more untradeable than others.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
Tabata is 22
we keep forgetting that
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
Remember that long road once more, then kiss it...kiss it goodbye
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Jul 15, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Whom are you suggesting sits?
Tabata? Jones? Both those guys have had solid but not spectacular seasons so far. Just curious because I think Presley should play until someone on the bench can outperform him. If I had my way I think I’d move Jones to first and go with Tabata and Presley in the OF. I’d platoon Jones with Pearce. I’d look to upgrade at 3rd or SS now which I don’t think will happen. If Presley isn’t cutting it the Pirates could always make a move in August.
#AllTheBuntsAreBad!
either
and maybe neither, if we let go of Overbay. But my point is basically that we shouldnt assume Tabata is necessarily ahead of Presley (at this point), coming back from the injury.
I basically agree with this
In a lot of ways I’d rather upgrade our rotation that our lineup, because I think that Presley, Tabata, Walker, Cutch, Alvarez, Jones/Pearce, Doumit/McKenry, and Cedeno is a pretty plausible lineup for a team with a solid rotation. And I think that one more piece (Ubaldo?) could really solidify the rotation.
To add
If I thought there was a great upgrade out there, I’d be happy to improve the lineup. But I haven’t seen very much that looks like a solid upgrade and wouldn’t be too expensive. Beltran would be a big upgrade, and if he could be had reasonably cheaply, I’d certainly take him over Presley. But the options at 1B suck, upgrading 3B makes no sense, I’m not aware of anyone at C who makes sense, and SS upgrades wouldn’t come cheap. Bear in mind that Ronny is #5 in MLB for UZR/150, with a steep drop (like, half a win drop) to #7; we’d give up a lot of defense to upgrade his bat, and I’m not certain it would be worth the prospects it would take.
Stable veteran presence
I can’t stand that kind of reasoning. That’s what brought us Overbay and Diaz. And Ryan Church. And Chris Gomez. And Eric Hinske. And Jason Michaels. And Luis Rivas. And Bobby Crosby. And Aki Iwamura. And Craig Monroe.
How about somebody who can hit, instead?
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
by WTM on Jul 15, 2011 2:53 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
While I rec your comment...
…I shall be crying tears of bitter memories because of that list. Yikes.
Kamerion Wimbley is the truth
You should be ashamed of yourself...
…putting together a list of stable veteran presences and forgetting…
DOUG F$#%##% MIENTKIEWICZ!
And you call yourself a Pirates fan? For shame, WTM, for shame.
Eye Chart was OK as a Buc
Just above-average bat with decent fielding at 1B isn’t a great player, but it’s better than a poke in the eye with a fragment of a bat that Matt Diaz broke while grounding out to shortstop.
(I don’t know that Diaz has actually done that this season.)
Not actually affiliated with whygavs.
by WHYG Zane Smith on Jul 15, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, to be fair
I thought Aki Iwamura could actually be a nice addition at second base based on his ability to play ball well and him not being very old. Of course, things didn’t turn out right, but I’d say that he wasn’t exactly thought of like Ryan Church. Diaz was also a platoon guy through and through for us, brought in for his bat against lefties. I didn’t think of either of those guys as being brought in for a stable veteran presence.
Mientkiewicz and Hinske were good, IMO.
by Adam Reynolds on Jul 15, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
what about Jamie Carroll
he can hit and play multiple position in the IF
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
Remember that long road once more, then kiss it...kiss it goodbye
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Jul 15, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm going to get killed for this but....
We don’t really know what Overbay and Diaz have brought in the club house. We can sit here all we want complain that they haven’t hit but I don’t think people posting on websites realize how much impact some players have in the clubhouse. Both positive and negative.
Now, I’m not saying either of these guys did or didn’t or any of the guys Wilbur mentioned did or didn’t but I certainly don’t want a “cancer”.
I’m not saying this isn’t logical thinking, I’m just playing devils advocate
I'll go with Ludwick
to split time with Presley in RF (not necessarily a R/L platoon).
9 mil for a half year rental?
And giving up multiple guys we have years of control over? There is only one successful outcome for Neal, in the midst of a myriad of…oh, let’s call them sub-optimal outcomes. (BTW…anything short of a World Series appearance = sub-optimal.)
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brush her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
Neverett says that Tabata was taken out of last nights game with an undisclosed injury...
maybe they dont expect Jose back for a while, which is why they want a “stable” outfield presence
David DeJesus looks to me like a cheap buy
with a ton of upside. This guy has been been WARring at better than three each year consistently for his career until the first half of this season. Now, does he suck this year because this is the end of Jesus, or does the Oakland Alameda Colosseum take (or share) the responsibility?
Based on a hunch intersecting with the likely path of the A’s the rest of the way, I think this guy could be had cheaply. Moreover, I think he fits the type of a guy that could reawaken and bring some big value. And no, he isn’t likely to salt the river — but he has produced runs.
I want the Bucs to do something. But, I want the FO to keep it real. The time to risk big resources has yet to come.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
What I don't get...
Are how some of these guys are upgrades? Why would they trade a prospect for a guy like Ryan Ludwick or Josh Willingham or Jamie Carroll when they aren’t better than the guys we have playing already.
DeJesus has a .248 BABIP,
so I would take a flyer on him if he comes cheap. And he’s pretty good in RF.
I don't get the thinking of many here that we have to make a trade or two
to upgrade with some “veteranosity.”
As long as Presley keeps playing well in RF, and provides a lot of speed at the top of the order to go with Cutch, D’Arnaud from time to time, and hopefully a healthy Tabata soon, I like what this team is doing. Runs are runs.
When Pearce gets back, and if he can stay healthy for once, put him at 1B in a platoon with Jones, while giving Overbay the axe.
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I don’t see too many people clamoring for veterans just for the sake of experience. Nobody really wants Jeff Francoeur, do they? I think people want a real addition that will really help the team. I for one want to see them add a legitimate upgrade, not just add to say they did it.
I’ll never fully understand the level of love for Steve Pearce, though. I surely don’t want to hang our offensive hopes on him being (1) healthy and (2) successful. I would much rather spend a middling prospect for Ryan Ludwick than have to hope Steve Pearce is good enough to be a big league starter.
For the record
The guy I think would really be right, in terms of quality and cost, is Josh Willingham. He’s down a little this year in the AL, but I think a return to the national league would be good for him, where he’s posted OPS+ of better than 125 each of the past two years in Washington.
I'm most certainly not a Pearce fan. And I stated the other day that Ludwick is one guy that intrigues me.
Unless they acquire a guy from the right side that might make sense like Ludwick, I think they have to give Pearce another shot.
I’ve just seen a lot of dumb proposals floated around here. There might be a “legitimate upgrade” out there, but I’m skeptical of what I’ve been reading for the most part the last few weeks.
When people talk about the need for an upgrade, we’ve already done it from within with the recent additions that add speed and athleticism to the club. The team seems to have really good “chemistry” as well.
Incidentally, no one is talking about Pearce being the main guy at first base in a week or two. The idea is that he and Jones could split time there, with Pearce also in the mix with Wood and D’Arnaud for time at 3B. ( I worry about Pearce’s “D” there, though.)
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